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Sports Illustrated's New Idea of Realignment
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inutech Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Sports Illustrated's New Idea of Realignment
(06-30-2020 10:38 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 12:00 PM)ATTALLABLAZE Wrote:  If you put UAB in the Sun Belt and added Troy you wound see suicides increase by 20% in the state from Gumps and Barners.

Nah, this is a treatise on how useless Conferences really are. The top teams would still be the top with a much softer conference schedule. Kind of like the old days where there were a bunch of independents who whooped up on little sisters of the poor and played maybe three legit big games a year. Same here only under the pretense of a Conference Format. LSU, Bama and Auburn are gonna be LSU, Bama and Auburn. Tech and UAB are still going to be who they are too. Conference payouts may increase for the little guys at first but tv Networks would insist on independently choosing games and not buying an entire conference’s content.

Now it would totally screw the Wake Forests and Washington States o the world who have the P5 tag to lord over the smaller schools in their region. The lower end P5 schools would lose all disadvantages they had accumulated while the BiG boys would keep on getting bigger.

It might not change all that much at the very top (I bet it would a little) but you would see quite a reckoning in the middle sooner or later.

And I bet you'd see some G5 schools make big jumps up in other sports than football pretty quick, too.
07-01-2020 08:15 AM
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Nugget49er Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Sports Illustrated's New Idea of Realignment
(06-30-2020 08:42 PM)JoeJag Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 06:46 PM)Dawgxas Wrote:  Glad to see Troy State regelated to FCS where it belongs with other regional colleges.

At least Troy is an independent state school, unlike LaTech which is just another member of the University of Louisiana System. No reason for you people to feel so uppity.

I am not trying to get into the pissing contest about where Troy belongs, I simply want to understand the advantage you cite about being an independent state school.

In NC, all 17 campuses are equal branches of our University System. So UNC-Chapel Hill, UNC Charlotte, App State, ECU, etc, are all the same. Oh sure, UNC-Chapel Hill has history and political power on its side, so they are a little more equal than everyone else, but on paper everyone is equal. This is the perspective I come from, and I find other structures interesting.

I know some states like NY and CA have multiple university systems. In Alabama I see that there is the U of A System with Tuscaloosa, Birmingham and Huntsville, and I know that being in that "system" almost cost UAB their football program, so that was a disadvantage. But why is Troy not being part of that an advantage? Just curious about how it works.
07-01-2020 08:54 AM
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davi78239 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Sports Illustrated's New Idea of Realignment
I guess utsa’s very dismal record the past couple of years and crappy facilities did them in. I think a lot of it has to do with notoriety too mixed in. Rice hasn’t been very good lately either but they’re Rice.
07-01-2020 08:59 AM
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Eagle Lurker Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Sports Illustrated's New Idea of Realignment
(06-30-2020 10:38 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 12:00 PM)ATTALLABLAZE Wrote:  If you put UAB in the Sun Belt and added Troy you wound see suicides increase by 20% in the state from Gumps and Barners.

Nah, this is a treatise on how useless Conferences really are. The top teams would still be the top with a much softer conference schedule. Kind of like the old days where there were a bunch of independents who whooped up on little sisters of the poor and played maybe three legit big games a year. Same here only under the pretense of a Conference Format. LSU, Bama and Auburn are gonna be LSU, Bama and Auburn. Tech and UAB are still going to be who they are too. Conference payouts may increase for the little guys at first but tv Networks would insist on independently choosing games and not buying an entire conference’s content.

Now it would totally screw the Wake Forests and Washington States o the world who have the P5 tag to lord over the smaller schools in their region. The lower end P5 schools would lose all disadvantages they had accumulated while the BiG boys would keep on getting bigger.

In addition to equalizing the money, this also takes away the bought home game advantage that the $EC teams love to exploit. Assuming the OOC game is also a mandated H&H. The P5's would cry foul over that aspect alone.
07-01-2020 09:13 AM
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inutech Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Sports Illustrated's New Idea of Realignment
(07-01-2020 08:59 AM)davi78239 Wrote:  I guess utsa’s very dismal record the past couple of years and crappy facilities did them in. I think a lot of it has to do with notoriety too mixed in. Rice hasn’t been very good lately either but they’re Rice.

(06-30-2020 02:53 PM)inutech Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 02:19 PM)JCMiner Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 08:48 PM)JoeJag Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 03:54 PM)JCMiner Wrote:  Where are we?

Left out in the cold like some of the rest us. 03-banghead
I understand why we're not included but what did you guys do to get on his bad side?

I think it's all based on his rubric right?

Quote:FBS Profile Rank is a 1–120 metric that combines a school’s five-year average Sagarin football ranking; its 2020 U.S. News & World Report National University ranking; and its 2018–19 Learfield Cup all-sports ranking

It's not totally clear, I suppose it's possible that he went through and picked the teams to drop based on geography or general football history or something first. But my assumption was the schools that were bumped to FCS were just below the 120 line based on this metric. I don't think it's necessarily a great metric but I also don't think (again, my assumption) that the schools left out were chosen specifically by Forde - it's just how the numbers turned out. But then again maybe he removed the schools he wanted to and then only applied the rubric to the ones that were left to see roughly how the new conferences evened out based on that metric (but I doubt it - as I've said, it's probably just schools 120-130 being dropped).


I think it's the metric.
07-01-2020 09:51 AM
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T2003 Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Sports Illustrated's New Idea of Realignment
(06-30-2020 10:38 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 01:11 AM)T2003 Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 09:29 PM)Nugget49er Wrote:  This is a dream deal for all but 11 G5 schools, and immediately people here want to say what they would change about it. Me, I say let's put Pat Forde in charge of the NCAA and get this done.

Most G5 schools would never go bowling in this scenario, 6-6 seasons would be the best you could hope for (maybe once-in-a-decade)...btw the Rocky Mountain Conference would be the new CUSA / SBC in CFB - and Yankee the new MAC.

There would be no more G5 and I would assume the money for each conference would be the same (dangerous assumption I know). Former G5 schools in this scenario would not have any excuse for recruiting and getting better facilities which means after 3 or 4 years these schools should be able to compete with the former P5'ers.

P5 schools would (actually they will in the future) negotiate individual streaming deals with Big tech companies (YT, Amazon, FB, etc, ESPN streaming), esp if current conferences such as SEC, ACC, etc ceased to exist. No more conference tv deals in the future: Everyone will have to negotiate individually and price will be based on each school’s streaming metrics (even in case of a conference deal, viewer metrics will determine the payout for each school. Now way Alabama, LSU, Texas, Ohio St, or any other P5 school would agree to join an unbalanced conference without absorbing at least 90% of the revenue). This is the future anyways.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2020 10:47 AM by T2003.)
07-01-2020 10:12 AM
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CardinalBlackTrojan Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Sports Illustrated's New Idea of Realignment
(07-01-2020 08:54 AM)Nugget49er Wrote:  I am not trying to get into the pissing contest about where Troy belongs, I simply want to understand the advantage you cite about being an independent state school.

In NC, all 17 campuses are equal branches of our University System. So UNC-Chapel Hill, UNC Charlotte, App State, ECU, etc, are all the same. Oh sure, UNC-Chapel Hill has history and political power on its side, so they are a little more equal than everyone else, but on paper everyone is equal. This is the perspective I come from, and I find other structures interesting.

I know some states like NY and CA have multiple university systems. In Alabama I see that there is the U of A System with Tuscaloosa, Birmingham and Huntsville, and I know that being in that "system" almost cost UAB their football program, so that was a disadvantage. But why is Troy not being part of that an advantage? Just curious about how it works.

That's a fair perspective. I think it varies with each state university system. Sort of like the University of Louisiana System... it doesn't seem nearly as equal as the UNC System.

There are pros and cons of being a part of a state university system.

But for Troy, the most obvious pro of being independent is that Troy has its own university system with four campuses (Troy campus, TU-Dothan, TU-Montgomery, and TU-Phenix City), which means we gain more student/enrollment revenue. We also have our own BOT, which means we're not subject to a state system's rulings. Troy makes more revenue having their own system than they do having one campus with higher state support.

I can't imagine Troy being a part of the UA System... there's no telling where we would be facility-wise/success-wise if Paul Bryant Jr. had his dirty mitts in our business.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2020 10:38 AM by CardinalBlackTrojan.)
07-01-2020 10:28 AM
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Post: #68
RE: Sports Illustrated's New Idea of Realignment
(07-01-2020 10:28 AM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote:  
(07-01-2020 08:54 AM)Nugget49er Wrote:  I am not trying to get into the pissing contest about where Troy belongs, I simply want to understand the advantage you cite about being an independent state school.

In NC, all 17 campuses are equal branches of our University System. So UNC-Chapel Hill, UNC Charlotte, App State, ECU, etc, are all the same. Oh sure, UNC-Chapel Hill has history and political power on its side, so they are a little more equal than everyone else, but on paper everyone is equal. This is the perspective I come from, and I find other structures interesting.

I know some states like NY and CA have multiple university systems. In Alabama I see that there is the U of A System with Tuscaloosa, Birmingham and Huntsville, and I know that being in that "system" almost cost UAB their football program, so that was a disadvantage. But why is Troy not being part of that an advantage? Just curious about how it works.

That's a fair perspective. I think it varies with each state university system. Sort of like the University of Louisiana System... it doesn't seem nearly as equal as the UNC System.

There are pros and cons of being a part of a state university system.

But for Troy, the most obvious pro of being independent is that Troy has its own university system with four campuses (Troy campus, TU-Dothan, TU-Montgomery, and TU-Phenix City), which means we gain more student/enrollment revenue. We also have our own BOT, which means we're not subject to a state system's rulings. Troy makes more revenue having their own system than they do having one campus with higher state support.

I can't imagine Troy being a part of the UA System... there's no telling where we would be facility-wise/success-wise if Paul Bryant Jr. had his dirty mitts in our business.

What is the role of Alabama Commission on Higher Education? Do they oversee all the public university systems in AL?
07-01-2020 11:23 AM
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ImfromClayton Offline
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RE: Sports Illustrated's New Idea of Realignment
Charlotte is a griffindor, homie
07-01-2020 11:32 AM
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pilot172000 Offline
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RE: Sports Illustrated's New Idea of Realignment
(07-01-2020 10:28 AM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote:  
(07-01-2020 08:54 AM)Nugget49er Wrote:  I am not trying to get into the pissing contest about where Troy belongs, I simply want to understand the advantage you cite about being an independent state school.

In NC, all 17 campuses are equal branches of our University System. So UNC-Chapel Hill, UNC Charlotte, App State, ECU, etc, are all the same. Oh sure, UNC-Chapel Hill has history and political power on its side, so they are a little more equal than everyone else, but on paper everyone is equal. This is the perspective I come from, and I find other structures interesting.

I know some states like NY and CA have multiple university systems. In Alabama I see that there is the U of A System with Tuscaloosa, Birmingham and Huntsville, and I know that being in that "system" almost cost UAB their football program, so that was a disadvantage. But why is Troy not being part of that an advantage? Just curious about how it works.

That's a fair perspective. I think it varies with each state university system. Sort of like the University of Louisiana System... it doesn't seem nearly as equal as the UNC System.

There are pros and cons of being a part of a state university system.

But for Troy, the most obvious pro of being independent is that Troy has its own university system with four campuses (Troy campus, TU-Dothan, TU-Montgomery, and TU-Phenix City), which means we gain more student/enrollment revenue. We also have our own BOT, which means we're not subject to a state system's rulings. Troy makes more revenue having their own system than they do having one campus with higher state support.

I can't imagine Troy being a part of the UA System... there's no telling where we would be facility-wise/success-wise if Paul Bryant Jr. had his dirty mitts in our business.
The UL system has two strong polarizing schools with a plethora of small schools that are manipulated to balance power. Then add in the undue Influence of LSU and you have a quagmire. Tech and ULL work tirelessly to counteract each other by using the other mostly FCS schools as counterweights. Southern has its own School System with two Jucos and a law school but really doesn’t figure into the equation here.
07-01-2020 12:11 PM
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pilot172000 Offline
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RE: Sports Illustrated's New Idea of Realignment
(07-01-2020 10:12 AM)T2003 Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 10:38 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 01:11 AM)T2003 Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 09:29 PM)Nugget49er Wrote:  This is a dream deal for all but 11 G5 schools, and immediately people here want to say what they would change about it. Me, I say let's put Pat Forde in charge of the NCAA and get this done.

Most G5 schools would never go bowling in this scenario, 6-6 seasons would be the best you could hope for (maybe once-in-a-decade)...btw the Rocky Mountain Conference would be the new CUSA / SBC in CFB - and Yankee the new MAC.

There would be no more G5 and I would assume the money for each conference would be the same (dangerous assumption I know). Former G5 schools in this scenario would not have any excuse for recruiting and getting better facilities which means after 3 or 4 years these schools should be able to compete with the former P5'ers.

P5 schools would (actually they will in the future) negotiate individual streaming deals with Big tech companies (YT, Amazon, FB, etc, ESPN streaming), esp if current conferences such as SEC, ACC, etc ceased to exist. No more conference tv deals in the future: Everyone will have to negotiate individually and price will be based on each school’s streaming metrics (even in case of a conference deal, viewer metrics will determine the payout for each school. Now way Alabama, LSU, Texas, Ohio St, or any other P5 school would agree to join an unbalanced conference without absorbing at least 90% of the revenue). This is the future anyways.
Let’s assume for the sake of argument that this is federally mandated under the guise of equality. Within a 5 year period all the money will have shifted from the Conference Structure to TV and Bowls. Those that make it to the Bowls would get the lions share and the TV money would be al la carte. The fight would be in the middle for crumbs and at the bottom for legitimacy. Take a good look at the EPL. There are around 6 top tier Teams that vie for Champions League and Europa League money while the back half struggle to stay in the money. They are competing with the top portion of the Second Tier. TROY would be in the top league by the end of the first cycle.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2020 12:20 PM by pilot172000.)
07-01-2020 12:19 PM
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inutech Offline
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RE: Sports Illustrated's New Idea of Realignment
07-01-2020 01:06 PM
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pilot172000 Offline
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RE: Sports Illustrated's New Idea of Realignment
(07-01-2020 01:06 PM)inutech Wrote:  https://www.si.com/college/2020/07/01/co...e-football

That answers a lot of questions brought up here. Also his mention about gate receipts is in point. I can’t think of how many LsU fans would buy up seats in Lafayette and Ruston just to see their beloved Tiggers play.
07-01-2020 01:42 PM
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RE: Sports Illustrated's New Idea of Realignment
(07-01-2020 12:19 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  
(07-01-2020 10:12 AM)T2003 Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 10:38 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 01:11 AM)T2003 Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 09:29 PM)Nugget49er Wrote:  This is a dream deal for all but 11 G5 schools, and immediately people here want to say what they would change about it. Me, I say let's put Pat Forde in charge of the NCAA and get this done.

Most G5 schools would never go bowling in this scenario, 6-6 seasons would be the best you could hope for (maybe once-in-a-decade)...btw the Rocky Mountain Conference would be the new CUSA / SBC in CFB - and Yankee the new MAC.

There would be no more G5 and I would assume the money for each conference would be the same (dangerous assumption I know). Former G5 schools in this scenario would not have any excuse for recruiting and getting better facilities which means after 3 or 4 years these schools should be able to compete with the former P5'ers.

P5 schools would (actually they will in the future) negotiate individual streaming deals with Big tech companies (YT, Amazon, FB, etc, ESPN streaming), esp if current conferences such as SEC, ACC, etc ceased to exist. No more conference tv deals in the future: Everyone will have to negotiate individually and price will be based on each school’s streaming metrics (even in case of a conference deal, viewer metrics will determine the payout for each school. Now way Alabama, LSU, Texas, Ohio St, or any other P5 school would agree to join an unbalanced conference without absorbing at least 90% of the revenue). This is the future anyways.
Let’s assume for the sake of argument that this is federally mandated under the guise of equality. Within a 5 year period all the money will have shifted from the Conference Structure to TV and Bowls. Those that make it to the Bowls would get the lions share and the TV money would be al la carte. The fight would be in the middle for crumbs and at the bottom for legitimacy. Take a good look at the EPL. There are around 6 top tier Teams that vie for Champions League and Europa League money while the back half struggle to stay in the money. They are competing with the top portion of the Second Tier. TROY would be in the top league by the end of the first cycle.

TYRANNY! I am getting my gun, Live Free or Die.
07-01-2020 01:49 PM
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pilot172000 Offline
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RE: Sports Illustrated's New Idea of Realignment
(07-01-2020 01:49 PM)FAU Connoisseur! Wrote:  
(07-01-2020 12:19 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  
(07-01-2020 10:12 AM)T2003 Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 10:38 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 01:11 AM)T2003 Wrote:  Most G5 schools would never go bowling in this scenario, 6-6 seasons would be the best you could hope for (maybe once-in-a-decade)...btw the Rocky Mountain Conference would be the new CUSA / SBC in CFB - and Yankee the new MAC.

There would be no more G5 and I would assume the money for each conference would be the same (dangerous assumption I know). Former G5 schools in this scenario would not have any excuse for recruiting and getting better facilities which means after 3 or 4 years these schools should be able to compete with the former P5'ers.

P5 schools would (actually they will in the future) negotiate individual streaming deals with Big tech companies (YT, Amazon, FB, etc, ESPN streaming), esp if current conferences such as SEC, ACC, etc ceased to exist. No more conference tv deals in the future: Everyone will have to negotiate individually and price will be based on each school’s streaming metrics (even in case of a conference deal, viewer metrics will determine the payout for each school. Now way Alabama, LSU, Texas, Ohio St, or any other P5 school would agree to join an unbalanced conference without absorbing at least 90% of the revenue). This is the future anyways.
Let’s assume for the sake of argument that this is federally mandated under the guise of equality. Within a 5 year period all the money will have shifted from the Conference Structure to TV and Bowls. Those that make it to the Bowls would get the lions share and the TV money would be al la carte. The fight would be in the middle for crumbs and at the bottom for legitimacy. Take a good look at the EPL. There are around 6 top tier Teams that vie for Champions League and Europa League money while the back half struggle to stay in the money. They are competing with the top portion of the Second Tier. TROY would be in the top league by the end of the first cycle.

TYRANNY! I am getting my gun, Live Free or Die.

Lol, it certainly wasn’t my intention to get political but the only way to break up a monopoly is to get the Feds involved. Just ask Orrin Hatch how he got Utah into the PAC-12.
07-01-2020 02:02 PM
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Luckyshot Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Sports Illustrated's New Idea of Realignment
(06-30-2020 09:37 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 05:04 PM)Luckyshot Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 04:47 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 04:37 PM)Noodles Wrote:  Look at that Sun Belt. Would you just look at it?

And as you all know Louisiana Tech politely declines to join the sunbelt and play ULL in conference. 03-old

Troy would be willing to take your place, or they could take UAB's spot and UAB slides into the new Sunbelt.

I was making a stereotypical/satirical remark not to be taken seriously.

Unfortunately, none of this can be taken seriously :)
07-01-2020 04:28 PM
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pilot172000 Offline
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RE: Sports Illustrated's New Idea of Realignment
(07-01-2020 04:28 PM)Luckyshot Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 09:37 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 05:04 PM)Luckyshot Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 04:47 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 04:37 PM)Noodles Wrote:  Look at that Sun Belt. Would you just look at it?

And as you all know Louisiana Tech politely declines to join the sunbelt and play ULL in conference. 03-old

Troy would be willing to take your place, or they could take UAB's spot and UAB slides into the new Sunbelt.

I was making a stereotypical/satirical remark not to be taken seriously.

Unfortunately, none of this can be taken seriously :)

Don’t worry USM would be in this conference so Rivalry in Dixie would still be intact and Louisiana Tech would just have to suck it up.
07-01-2020 04:31 PM
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Luckyshot Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Sports Illustrated's New Idea of Realignment
(07-01-2020 04:31 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  
(07-01-2020 04:28 PM)Luckyshot Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 09:37 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 05:04 PM)Luckyshot Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 04:47 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  And as you all know Louisiana Tech politely declines to join the sunbelt and play ULL in conference. 03-old

Troy would be willing to take your place, or they could take UAB's spot and UAB slides into the new Sunbelt.

I was making a stereotypical/satirical remark not to be taken seriously.

Unfortunately, none of this can be taken seriously :)

Don’t worry USM would be in this conference so Rivalry in Dixie would still be intact and Louisiana Tech would just have to suck it up.

For all the better G5 schools, this would give us a chance to get onto the level of the mid-P5 schools within a few years. An occasional great season could actually lead to a NC, unlike the current situation. There really couldn't be any deal breakers for any of us.
07-01-2020 04:37 PM
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JoeJag Offline
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RE: Sports Illustrated's New Idea of Realignment
(07-01-2020 08:54 AM)Nugget49er Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 08:42 PM)JoeJag Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 06:46 PM)Dawgxas Wrote:  Glad to see Troy State regelated to FCS where it belongs with other regional colleges.

At least Troy is an independent state school, unlike LaTech which is just another member of the University of Louisiana System. No reason for you people to feel so uppity.

I am not trying to get into the pissing contest about where Troy belongs, I simply want to understand the advantage you cite about being an independent state school.

In NC, all 17 campuses are equal branches of our University System. So UNC-Chapel Hill, UNC Charlotte, App State, ECU, etc, are all the same. Oh sure, UNC-Chapel Hill has history and political power on its side, so they are a little more equal than everyone else, but on paper everyone is equal. This is the perspective I come from, and I find other structures interesting.

I know some states like NY and CA have multiple university systems. In Alabama I see that there is the U of A System with Tuscaloosa, Birmingham and Huntsville, and I know that being in that "system" almost cost UAB their football program, so that was a disadvantage. But why is Troy not being part of that an advantage? Just curious about how it works.

BINGO!
07-01-2020 04:55 PM
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RE: Sports Illustrated's New Idea of Realignment
(07-01-2020 04:55 PM)JoeJag Wrote:  
(07-01-2020 08:54 AM)Nugget49er Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 08:42 PM)JoeJag Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 06:46 PM)Dawgxas Wrote:  Glad to see Troy State regelated to FCS where it belongs with other regional colleges.

At least Troy is an independent state school, unlike LaTech which is just another member of the University of Louisiana System. No reason for you people to feel so uppity.

I am not trying to get into the pissing contest about where Troy belongs, I simply want to understand the advantage you cite about being an independent state school.

In NC, all 17 campuses are equal branches of our University System. So UNC-Chapel Hill, UNC Charlotte, App State, ECU, etc, are all the same. Oh sure, UNC-Chapel Hill has history and political power on its side, so they are a little more equal than everyone else, but on paper everyone is equal. This is the perspective I come from, and I find other structures interesting.

I know some states like NY and CA have multiple university systems. In Alabama I see that there is the U of A System with Tuscaloosa, Birmingham and Huntsville, and I know that being in that "system" almost cost UAB their football program, so that was a disadvantage. But why is Troy not being part of that an advantage? Just curious about how it works.

BINGO!

Yep. The Paul Bryant, jr dominated UA BOT and their crony did end the program. Neither UAB nor UAH are equally represented on the board.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2020 05:26 PM by MAN4UAB.)
07-01-2020 05:18 PM
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