(06-23-2020 07:20 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 06:55 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  While losing any member is not a pleasant thing for a conference on shaky grounds maybe B-C can approach the MEAC and say “listen, we can’t afford the travel and over half the ASUN is in driving distance for us. What you need most right now is football programs; can we take our Olympic programs elsewhere and leave football in the MEAC?”

That would be very logical and a win win for everyone

So long as the ASUN doesn’t ever offer football itself, that could work.

I don’t know how it’s still a real win for MEAC other than them keeping a conference or sport sponsorship. Of course, someone has to really want B-C. We assume ASun would take them, but with all of the Florida real estate, is that a lock?

(06-23-2020 07:38 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I don’t know how it’s still a real win for MEAC other than them keeping a conference or sport sponsorship. Of course, someone has to really want B-C. We assume ASun would take them, but with all of the Florida real estate, is that a lock?

It gets rid of Florida travel for sports that dont make money and allows a much tighter footprint for the 6 VA/MD/DC MEAC north members plus Central and SC State. Simultaneously it helps preserve football which they need to meet NCAA team sports regulations.

(06-23-2020 08:05 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 07:38 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I don’t know how it’s still a real win for MEAC other than them keeping a conference or sport sponsorship. Of course, someone has to really want B-C. We assume ASun would take them, but with all of the Florida real estate, is that a lock?

It gets rid of Florida travel for sports that dont make money and allows a much tighter footprint for the 6 VA/MD/DC MEAC north members plus Central and SC State. Simultaneously it helps preserve football which they need to meet NCAA team sports regulations.

It's not clear in the bylaws that it actually helps maintain multi-sport status:

Quote: 20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports;
(b) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men's sports, one of which shall be men's basketball. In addition to men's basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor men's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men's team sports; and
© The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six women's sports, one of which shall be women's basketball. In addition to women's basketball, the conference shall sponsor two other women's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor women's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including two additional women's team sports (or a minimum of five members for an emerging sport for women).

It needs seven members to sponsor basketball and six MEMBERS to sponsor five sports other than basketball including either football or two team sports. Using affiliates to get up to six is useful for getting the autobid, but it is not clear that it helps with conference sports sponsorship requirements.

Having seven FB members does mean every FB school gets three conference home games a year and it keeps the B-C home leg of the big Florida Classic in conference.

(06-23-2020 08:58 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 08:05 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 07:38 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I don’t know how it’s still a real win for MEAC other than them keeping a conference or sport sponsorship. Of course, someone has to really want B-C. We assume ASun would take them, but with all of the Florida real estate, is that a lock?

It gets rid of Florida travel for sports that dont make money and allows a much tighter footprint for the 6 VA/MD/DC MEAC north members plus Central and SC State. Simultaneously it helps preserve football which they need to meet NCAA team sports regulations.

It's not clear in the bylaws that it actually helps maintain multi-sport status:

Quote: 20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports;
(b) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men's sports, one of which shall be men's basketball. In addition to men's basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor men's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men's team sports; and
© The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six women's sports, one of which shall be women's basketball. In addition to women's basketball, the conference shall sponsor two other women's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor women's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including two additional women's team sports (or a minimum of five members for an emerging sport for women).

It needs seven members to sponsor basketball and six MEMBERS to sponsor five sports other than basketball including either football or two team sports. Using affiliates to get up to six is useful for getting the autobid, but it is not clear that it helps with conference sports sponsorship requirements.

My guess is they would apply for a waiver of some sort to allow B-C to count as a member since they're transitioning from being a full member, as opposed to the MEAC adding an affiliate member with no relationship with the conference. The MEAC would continue to search for full-time membership candidates since even if B-C counted, there's still too many flight risks from schools potentially moving up, over or down.

(06-23-2020 09:04 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  My guess is they would apply for a waiver of some sort to allow B-C to count as a member since they're transitioning from being a full member, as opposed to the MEAC adding an affiliate member with no relationship with the conference.

There's no waiver for that, there's just the grace period.

But B-C leaving wouldn't put MEAC out of compliance, it would just put the MEAC at the minimum on the "other mens team sports" part of the rule.

Like I said in another context, the MEAC is not "on the verge of collapse", it's rather "on the verge of being on the verge of collapse". It's two steps away from collapse. If B-C succeeds in finding an all-sports home with more reasonable travel, it will be one step away.

If SC State and UN Central stick together with the previous Northern Division, the MEAC still survives.

Honestly, the Commissioner, ADs, and University presidents need to get together and take a straw poll of what everyone’s inclinations are:

Are you committed to FCS MEAC?
Is travel expense an issue?
Is moving to a D2 conference a better fit for your school?
Should the MEAC move as a group to D2?
Are you adamant about staying FCS if the rest move down?

Talk things out and either come to a consensus on what the path forward is or figure out how to split up. If there are schools who need to move down let them.

(06-23-2020 10:20 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Honestly, the Commissioner, ADs, and University presidents need to get together and take a straw poll of what everyone’s inclinations are:

Are you committed to FCS MEAC?
Howard, yes; the others, not as sure.

Is travel expense an issue?
Yes for all.

Is moving to a D2 conference a better fit for your school?
TBD.

Should the MEAC move as a group to D2?
It would only work if Howard and NCCU bought into it.

Are you adamant about staying FCS if the rest move down?
Howard wouldn't get a home basketball game with Notre Dame and football games with Maryland if they were in the CIAA. The Big South would be their only likely destination. The others, it's probably a point of discussion.

Why is no one talking about their media deal? Wouldn't one say that Flo Sports is a big reason for the MEAC's troubles? FC Cincinnati and DC United both ended their deals early with Flo Sports.

I'd assume they are in contact as we speak. They would know the implications of the B-C Board of Trustees considering moving conferences better than we do.

(06-23-2020 08:05 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 07:38 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I don’t know how it’s still a real win for MEAC other than them keeping a conference or sport sponsorship. Of course, someone has to really want B-C. We assume ASun would take them, but with all of the Florida real estate, is that a lock?

It gets rid of Florida travel for sports that dont make money and allows a much tighter footprint for the 6 VA/MD/DC MEAC north members plus Central and SC State. Simultaneously it helps preserve football which they need to meet NCAA team sports regulations.

Even for the gap between B-C and the rest of the remaining MEAC, you’d want to be in Florida for the recruiting and other hosting potential. For a coastal conference, I don’t know...MEAC should be in Florida. For football-only, okay, it helps some, but, another conference that shares a footprint no more unique than others? The HBC-thing is the only part that makes it unique, but we’re about one or two schools away from a collapse it seems.

And I don’t know if there’s anyone at the ready for a spot. For darn sure, MEAC won’t keep Howard or NCCU if all you have is Chicago State.

Norfolk St, SC St, and NC Central all have pretty good football attendance (the first 2 are in the top 25). I think those 3 and Howard could survive if they could find conferences to take them on.

The other 4 can’t survive without those schools propping them up.

(06-23-2020 02:43 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The other 4 can’t survive without those schools propping them up.

The northern schools are especially vulnerable.

Delaware State: 4,872 students, endowment of $28 million.
Morgan State: 6,300 students, endowment of $32 million.
Coppin State: 2,383, endowment of $10 million.
Maryland-Eastern Shore: 2,333 students, endowment of $26 million

(06-23-2020 03:51 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 02:43 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The other 4 can’t survive without those schools propping them up.

The northern schools are especially vulnerable.

Delaware State: 4,872 students, endowment of $28 million.
Morgan State: 6,300 students, endowment of $32 million.
Coppin State: 2,383, endowment of $10 million.
Maryland-Eastern Shore: 2,333 students, endowment of $26 million

Bowie State would fit right in.

(06-23-2020 03:51 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 02:43 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The other 4 can’t survive without those schools propping them up.

The northern schools are especially vulnerable.

Delaware State: 4,872 students, endowment of $28 million.
Morgan State: 6,300 students, endowment of $32 million.
Coppin State: 2,383, endowment of $10 million.
Maryland-Eastern Shore: 2,333 students, endowment of $26 million

Those are definitely D2 numbers. Send that group to the CIAA.

NC Central, SC St, and Norfolk St to the ASUN (Big South fb)

Howard to the NEC

B-C could go to the ASUN or SIAC, whichever they prefer.

(06-23-2020 04:22 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 03:51 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 02:43 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The other 4 can’t survive without those schools propping them up.

The northern schools are especially vulnerable.

Delaware State: 4,872 students, endowment of $28 million.
Morgan State: 6,300 students, endowment of $32 million.
Coppin State: 2,383, endowment of $10 million.
Maryland-Eastern Shore: 2,333 students, endowment of $26 million

Those are definitely D2 numbers. Send that group to the CIAA.

NC Central, SC St, and Norfolk St to the ASUN (Big South fb)

Howard to the NEC

B-C could go to the ASUN or SIAC, whichever they prefer.

Howard to the NEC makes sense. As for BCU, NCCU, Norfolk State, and SCSU, some room may need to open up in the A-Sun as well as Big South FB to accommodate them all. As it stands for 2021, the A-Sun has 9 MBB programs while the Big South has 12 MBB and 9 FB programs. Seems unlikely that either would want to go above 12. Also, not sure about how solid the finances of any of those 4 schools are. Some may join the Delaware/Maryland schools in dropping to DII, if it comes to that.

I will pass on the ASUN inviting S.C. State, with an enrollment of 2,000 and endowment of less $5M. No thanks. Not really high on Norfolk for similar reasons, though not as drastic.

NCCU would be adequate. Bethune-Cookman simply fits in the geo footprint. But there are DII schools I’d rather have that are in a healthier situation than B-C.

Howard would be the prize get from the MEAC at this point.

(06-23-2020 05:41 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 04:22 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 03:51 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 02:43 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The other 4 can’t survive without those schools propping them up.

The northern schools are especially vulnerable.

Delaware State: 4,872 students, endowment of $28 million.
Morgan State: 6,300 students, endowment of $32 million.
Coppin State: 2,383, endowment of $10 million.
Maryland-Eastern Shore: 2,333 students, endowment of $26 million

Those are definitely D2 numbers. Send that group to the CIAA.

NC Central, SC St, and Norfolk St to the ASUN (Big South fb)

Howard to the NEC

B-C could go to the ASUN or SIAC, whichever they prefer.

Howard to the NEC makes sense. As for BCU, NCCU, Norfolk State, and SCSU, some room may need to open up in the A-Sun as well as Big South FB to accommodate them all. As it stands for 2021, the A-Sun has 9 MBB programs while the Big South has 12 MBB and 9 FB programs. Seems unlikely that either would want to go above 12. Also, not sure about how solid the finances of any of those 4 schools are. Some may join the Delaware/Maryland schools in dropping to DII, if it comes to that.

The ASUN is at 9 members.

Big South is at 12 members and 9 for football.

The ASUN could conceivably add 3 MEAC fb schools, bringing both the ASUN and Big South football up to 12 (5 Big South, 5 ASUN, +Monmouth & Robert Morris)

(06-23-2020 07:39 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 05:41 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 04:22 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 03:51 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 02:43 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The other 4 can’t survive without those schools propping them up.

The northern schools are especially vulnerable.

Delaware State: 4,872 students, endowment of $28 million.
Morgan State: 6,300 students, endowment of $32 million.
Coppin State: 2,383, endowment of $10 million.
Maryland-Eastern Shore: 2,333 students, endowment of $26 million

Those are definitely D2 numbers. Send that group to the CIAA.

NC Central, SC St, and Norfolk St to the ASUN (Big South fb)

Howard to the NEC

B-C could go to the ASUN or SIAC, whichever they prefer.

Howard to the NEC makes sense. As for BCU, NCCU, Norfolk State, and SCSU, some room may need to open up in the A-Sun as well as Big South FB to accommodate them all. As it stands for 2021, the A-Sun has 9 MBB programs while the Big South has 12 MBB and 9 FB programs. Seems unlikely that either would want to go above 12. Also, not sure about how solid the finances of any of those 4 schools are. Some may join the Delaware/Maryland schools in dropping to DII, if it comes to that.

The ASUN is at 9 members.

Big South is at 12 members and 9 for football.

The ASUN could conceivably add 3 MEAC fb schools, bringing both the ASUN and Big South football up to 12 (5 Big South, 5 ASUN, +Monmouth & Robert Morris)

True, I was just saying all 4 of BCU, NCCU, NSU, and SCSU couldn't fit unless there's a departure from the A-Sun/Big South. Which is certainly possible.

(06-23-2020 06:00 PM)army56mike Wrote:  I will pass on the ASUN inviting S.C. State, with an enrollment of 2,000 and endowment of less $5M. No thanks. Not really high on Norfolk for similar reasons, though not as drastic.

NCCU would be adequate. Bethune-Cookman simply fits in the geo footprint. But there are DII schools I’d rather have that are in a healthier situation than B-C.

Howard would be the prize get from the MEAC at this point.

Good point about SCSU, although their enrollment seems a bit higher than that. The CIAA or SIAC would probably be better for them. They could at least have an in-state rival then.

Howard's not likely to go to the A-Sun/Big South. Wouldn't the NEC or MAAC or even the Patriot be more likely?