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Once mighty programs
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Once mighty programs
(06-13-2020 08:20 AM)Thiefery Wrote:  I know Michigan hasn't beaten tosu in a very very long time but how are they on this list? Is this a list for teams who haven't won a title in 10 years? Because FSU shouldn't be on that. Syracuse? Were they they "mighty".. That they warrant being on this list too?

ahh NVM I just saw who the OP was

Syracuse beat Texas for their only Natty

Never lost to Texas in the 3 games played.

Cuse isn't an elite program but they have been playing big boy Football for over 100 years and last had a nice run from 1984 to 2001.

I think Syracuse gets elevated above their actual power standing due to a few factors: 1959 Team was one of the best all time teams, first Black Heisman (Ernie Davis), Jim Brown, unique stadium, huge amount of sports media alumni and huge basketball program helps too.

Sadly, they have only had a few good years since 2001. It has been hard for Cuse to recruit since about 2000.
(This post was last modified: 06-21-2020 09:55 PM by TexanMark.)
06-21-2020 09:42 PM
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CrazyPaco Offline
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RE: Once mighty programs
(06-13-2020 07:50 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  UCLA, Colorado and Pittsburgh have had their moments, but it would be a stretch to think that they were ever football powers. Tennessee and Miami were football powers. Miami still recruits well and produces a lot of NFL talent. USC and Texas are still football powers that have struggled with leadership issues the past decade but these schools still win, recruit and produce NFL talent and have the ability to win national championships. Not every power conference school can say that.

One school that is missing from your list is Nebraska. They had a great football program for many decades, but have not won a conference championship since 1999. They are not producing talent and they really don't look like a great fit in the Big 10.

Regarding Pittsburgh, from the 2020 NCAA Official College Football Records Book, it lists National Championships Major Selections as follows:
1910, 1915, 1916, 1918, 1929, 1931, 1936, 1937, 1976, 1980*, 1981*
(* not claimed by school)

#21 All-time victories
#21 in all-time NFL draft picks
#15 for number of weeks at AP #1
#9 in Consensus All-Americans (51)
#5 Pro Football Hall of Famers (9)
#5 College Football Hall of Famers (26)

A major power through the 10s, 20s, and 30s, and mid-70s through mid 80s, but one of the worst programs in the 40s, late 60s, and 90s. A program of extreme highs and lows, the latter primarily caused by self-inflicted periods of deemphasis. But it is not historically accurate to state Pittsburgh was never a power equatable to UCLA or Colorado.
(This post was last modified: 06-21-2020 10:24 PM by CrazyPaco.)
06-21-2020 10:13 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Once mighty programs
(06-21-2020 10:13 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(06-13-2020 07:50 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  UCLA, Colorado and Pittsburgh have had their moments, but it would be a stretch to think that they were ever football powers. Tennessee and Miami were football powers. Miami still recruits well and produces a lot of NFL talent. USC and Texas are still football powers that have struggled with leadership issues the past decade but these schools still win, recruit and produce NFL talent and have the ability to win national championships. Not every power conference school can say that.

One school that is missing from your list is Nebraska. They had a great football program for many decades, but have not won a conference championship since 1999. They are not producing talent and they really don't look like a great fit in the Big 10.

Regarding Pittsburgh, from the 2020 NCAA Official College Football Records Book, it lists National Championships Major Selections as follows:
1910, 1915, 1916, 1918, 1929, 1931, 1936, 1937, 1976, 1980*, 1981*
(* not claimed by school)

#21 All-time victories
#21 in all-time NFL draft picks
#15 for number of weeks at AP #1
#9 in Consensus All-Americans (51)
#5 Pro Football Hall of Famers (9)
#5 College Football Hall of Famers (26)

A major power through the 10s, 20s, and 30s, and mid-70s through mid 80s, but one of the worst programs in the 40s, late 60s, and 90s. A program of extreme highs and lows, the latter primarily caused by self-inflicted periods of deemphasis. But it is not historically accurate to state Pittsburgh was never a power equatable to UCLA or Colorado.

As I said, Pittsburgh has had their moments, but they would not be considered a football power. They have not finished the season ranked in the top ten since 1982. In that period, they have had only five top 25 finishes. They have not finished in the top 25 since the 2009 season, which was their only ten game winning season since 1982.

Yes, they were great at times. From 1975 to 1983, they had eight top 25 finishes in nine seasons, including a national championship in 1976. They had great players like Dorsett and Marino. They have also had some really bad periods. From 1964 through 1972, they had a record of 22-68, with a record of 1-9 for three consecutive seasons (1966-1968), and with a 1-10 season in 1972. I consider UCLA, Colorado and Pittsburgh as schools that have shown they can be great for periods of time, but they can never sustain it. You can't be in the conversation of once mighty programs if you go nearly four decades without a top ten finish.
06-22-2020 12:53 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Once mighty programs
I consider Pitt more of a historic power than Colorado.
06-22-2020 01:30 PM
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CrazyPaco Offline
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RE: Once mighty programs
(06-22-2020 12:53 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-21-2020 10:13 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(06-13-2020 07:50 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  UCLA, Colorado and Pittsburgh have had their moments, but it would be a stretch to think that they were ever football powers. Tennessee and Miami were football powers. Miami still recruits well and produces a lot of NFL talent. USC and Texas are still football powers that have struggled with leadership issues the past decade but these schools still win, recruit and produce NFL talent and have the ability to win national championships. Not every power conference school can say that.

One school that is missing from your list is Nebraska. They had a great football program for many decades, but have not won a conference championship since 1999. They are not producing talent and they really don't look like a great fit in the Big 10.

Regarding Pittsburgh, from the 2020 NCAA Official College Football Records Book, it lists National Championships Major Selections as follows:
1910, 1915, 1916, 1918, 1929, 1931, 1936, 1937, 1976, 1980*, 1981*
(* not claimed by school)

#21 All-time victories
#21 in all-time NFL draft picks
#15 for number of weeks at AP #1
#9 in Consensus All-Americans (51)
#5 Pro Football Hall of Famers (9)
#5 College Football Hall of Famers (26)

A major power through the 10s, 20s, and 30s, and mid-70s through mid 80s, but one of the worst programs in the 40s, late 60s, and 90s. A program of extreme highs and lows, the latter primarily caused by self-inflicted periods of deemphasis. But it is not historically accurate to state Pittsburgh was never a power equatable to UCLA or Colorado.

As I said, Pittsburgh has had their moments, but they would not be considered a football power. They have not finished the season ranked in the top ten since 1982. In that period, they have had only five top 25 finishes. They have not finished in the top 25 since the 2009 season, which was their only ten game winning season since 1982.

Yes, they were great at times. From 1975 to 1983, they had eight top 25 finishes in nine seasons, including a national championship in 1976. They had great players like Dorsett and Marino. They have also had some really bad periods. From 1964 through 1972, they had a record of 22-68, with a record of 1-9 for three consecutive seasons (1966-1968), and with a 1-10 season in 1972. I consider UCLA, Colorado and Pittsburgh as schools that have shown they can be great for periods of time, but they can never sustain it. You can't be in the conversation of once mighty programs if you go nearly four decades without a top ten finish.

Sorry, I didn't realize college football started in 1982.
06-22-2020 06:02 PM
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esayem Offline
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RE: Once mighty programs
Historically, Pitt was a power. In my lifetime, not so much. I wouldn’t consider Colorado a blue blood (much like BYU and Washington), but they had a nice thing going for a few seasons. Nebraska and Oklahoma dominated the Big 8.

In my lifetime, really only Miami and Nebraska have tumbled. The rest of the blue bloods still play in major bowls pretty consistently. Georgia Tech is a historical blue blood, but besides the one-off in the early 90’s, they’ve lost their luster as well.
06-23-2020 08:27 AM
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Minutemen429 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Once mighty programs
(06-22-2020 06:02 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(06-22-2020 12:53 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-21-2020 10:13 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(06-13-2020 07:50 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  UCLA, Colorado and Pittsburgh have had their moments, but it would be a stretch to think that they were ever football powers. Tennessee and Miami were football powers. Miami still recruits well and produces a lot of NFL talent. USC and Texas are still football powers that have struggled with leadership issues the past decade but these schools still win, recruit and produce NFL talent and have the ability to win national championships. Not every power conference school can say that.

One school that is missing from your list is Nebraska. They had a great football program for many decades, but have not won a conference championship since 1999. They are not producing talent and they really don't look like a great fit in the Big 10.

Regarding Pittsburgh, from the 2020 NCAA Official College Football Records Book, it lists National Championships Major Selections as follows:
1910, 1915, 1916, 1918, 1929, 1931, 1936, 1937, 1976, 1980*, 1981*
(* not claimed by school)

#21 All-time victories
#21 in all-time NFL draft picks
#15 for number of weeks at AP #1
#9 in Consensus All-Americans (51)
#5 Pro Football Hall of Famers (9)
#5 College Football Hall of Famers (26)

A major power through the 10s, 20s, and 30s, and mid-70s through mid 80s, but one of the worst programs in the 40s, late 60s, and 90s. A program of extreme highs and lows, the latter primarily caused by self-inflicted periods of deemphasis. But it is not historically accurate to state Pittsburgh was never a power equatable to UCLA or Colorado.

As I said, Pittsburgh has had their moments, but they would not be considered a football power. They have not finished the season ranked in the top ten since 1982. In that period, they have had only five top 25 finishes. They have not finished in the top 25 since the 2009 season, which was their only ten game winning season since 1982.

Yes, they were great at times. From 1975 to 1983, they had eight top 25 finishes in nine seasons, including a national championship in 1976. They had great players like Dorsett and Marino. They have also had some really bad periods. From 1964 through 1972, they had a record of 22-68, with a record of 1-9 for three consecutive seasons (1966-1968), and with a 1-10 season in 1972. I consider UCLA, Colorado and Pittsburgh as schools that have shown they can be great for periods of time, but they can never sustain it. You can't be in the conversation of once mighty programs if you go nearly four decades without a top ten finish.

Sorry, I didn't realize college football started in 1982.

Yeah but 1982 is more than a generation
06-23-2020 12:41 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: Once mighty programs
Pitt definitely meets the criteria of a former blueblood.

Colorado not so much. They had a nice run for a few years but blueblood status requires sustained success.

Michigan’s name got brought up. I think they get blueblood status based on shear size of their following. They’ve been in that elite 100K+ avg attendance club for decades.
06-23-2020 01:20 PM
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dxdtdemon Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Once mighty programs
(06-23-2020 01:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Michigan’s name got brought up. I think they get blueblood status based on shear size of their following. They’ve been in that elite 100K+ avg attendance club for decades.

Yes, they may have only won half a national championship since 1947, but they have the most wins of all time, and had the highest all-time winning percentage of any Division I FBS until Boise State played enough Division I games to count and the Buckeyes surpassed them on the field for second last November. Yes, it feels very strange saying something good about Michigan.
06-24-2020 12:42 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Once mighty programs
(06-23-2020 01:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Pitt definitely meets the criteria of a former blueblood.

Colorado not so much. They had a nice run for a few years but blueblood status requires sustained success.

Michigan’s name got brought up. I think they get blueblood status based on shear size of their following. They’ve been in that elite 100K+ avg attendance club for decades.

Agreed. Pitt was dominant for a total of 4 decades (1910's, 20's, 30's, and mid 70's to early 80's). For all their success, you can really only credit Clemson with two decades so far (1980's and 2010's), and the same for Miami (1980's and 90's). Those teams are definitely DYNASTIES, but that isn't the same as BLUEBLOODS (although you can certainly make an argument for both Clemson and Miami, along with FSU).
06-24-2020 02:14 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Once mighty programs
(06-24-2020 02:14 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(06-23-2020 01:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Pitt definitely meets the criteria of a former blueblood.

Colorado not so much. They had a nice run for a few years but blueblood status requires sustained success.

Michigan’s name got brought up. I think they get blueblood status based on shear size of their following. They’ve been in that elite 100K+ avg attendance club for decades.

Agreed. Pitt was dominant for a total of 4 decades (1910's, 20's, 30's, and mid 70's to early 80's). For all their success, you can really only credit Clemson with two decades so far (1980's and 2010's), and the same for Miami (1980's and 90's). Those teams are definitely DYNASTIES, but that isn't the same as BLUEBLOODS (although you can certainly make an argument for both Clemson and Miami, along with FSU).

Clemson's win in 1981 was not a dynasty moment. It, like many schools was a season when the stars aligned. They had good football in the early 80's but hardly dynasty material. The run Dabo has put together is Dynasty level. Even in the years when they have not won it they have been in contention. That's maintaining a high level of competition for a sustained number of years.

That said the Clemson run right now is more reminiscent of Bobby Bowden's run once he had the FSU program built. Whether either of the programs become bluebloods will depend upon how many subsequent coaches attain the same. That's where Ohio State and Alabama qualify. And I'm not just talking Meyer and Saban or Bryant and Hayes. Those two have had consistent runs across the decades and like all programs lulls, but have consistently overcome the lulls. So far F.S.U. hasn't overcome the loss the Bowden. Fisher inherited a program relatively intact and had one great year with a controversial QB. We'll have to see what follows Dabo but they have a good shot at keeping it rolling.

Miami was a cultural happening in the 80's which was really their strongest and most sustained run. The 90's caught some of that same lightening but not as consistently. They too have to wait to see if it can be rekindled or if it will be their historical high water mark from the past.

Michigan is a blueblood as is Texas and Oklahoma because they are an economic force in the game whether winning or losing. We have many more that fall into that category in both football and basketball. Championships don't necessarily define a blueblood, but they do define dynasties.
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2020 02:32 PM by JRsec.)
06-24-2020 02:30 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Once mighty programs
(06-24-2020 02:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-24-2020 02:14 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(06-23-2020 01:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Pitt definitely meets the criteria of a former blueblood.

Colorado not so much. They had a nice run for a few years but blueblood status requires sustained success.

Michigan’s name got brought up. I think they get blueblood status based on shear size of their following. They’ve been in that elite 100K+ avg attendance club for decades.

Agreed. Pitt was dominant for a total of 4 decades (1910's, 20's, 30's, and mid 70's to early 80's). For all their success, you can really only credit Clemson with two decades so far (1980's and 2010's), and the same for Miami (1980's and 90's). Those teams are definitely DYNASTIES, but that isn't the same as BLUEBLOODS (although you can certainly make an argument for both Clemson and Miami, along with FSU).

Clemson's win in 1981 was not a dynasty moment. It, like many schools was a season when the stars aligned. They had good football in the early 80's but hardly dynasty material. The run Dabo has put together is Dynasty level. Even in the years when they have not won it they have been in contention. That's maintaining a high level of competition for a sustained number of years.

That said the Clemson run right now is more reminiscent of Bobby Bowden's run once he had the FSU program built. Whether either of the programs become bluebloods will depend upon how many subsequent coaches attain the same. That's where Ohio State and Alabama qualify. And I'm not just talking Meyer and Saban or Bryant and Hayes. Those two have had consistent runs across the decades and like all programs lulls, but have consistently overcome the lulls. So far F.S.U. hasn't overcome the loss the Bowden. Fisher inherited a program relatively intact and had one great year with a controversial QB. We'll have to see what follows Dabo but they have a good shot at keeping it rolling.

Miami was a cultural happening in the 80's which was really their strongest and most sustained run. The 90's caught some of that same lightening but not as consistently. They too have to wait to see if it can be rekindled or if it will be their historical high water mark from the past.

Michigan is a blueblood as is Texas and Oklahoma because they are an economic force in the game whether winning or losing. We have many more that fall into that category in both football and basketball. Championships don't necessarily define a blueblood, but they do define dynasties.

Danny Ford's Clemson team went 12-0 in 1981 - then was promptly slapped with probation courtesy of former coach Charlie Pell. One that ended, Ford had a mini-run of four 10-win years in a row, all ending in bowl wins (over Penn State, Oklahoma, West Virginia and Illinois). It would've been a lot clearer without the probation, but I think you could still call that a dynasty (maybe?).
06-24-2020 02:52 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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RE: Once mighty programs
(06-23-2020 08:27 AM)esayem Wrote:  Historically, Pitt was a power. In my lifetime, not so much. I wouldn’t consider Colorado a blue blood (much like BYU and Washington), but they had a nice thing going for a few seasons. Nebraska and Oklahoma dominated the Big 8.

In my lifetime, really only Miami and Nebraska have tumbled. The rest of the blue bloods still play in major bowls pretty consistently. Georgia Tech is a historical blue blood, but besides the one-off in the early 90’s, they’ve lost their luster as well.

I have been following college football since the mid-1960's. I played in my first organized football league in 1966, saw my first college football game in 1966 (Air Force at Stanford) and watched the Game of the Century on TV in 1966 (Notre Dame at Michigan State), which ended in a 10-10 tie. In 1965, the AP started doing a final poll after the bowl games. This was the 1966 AP final poll:

1 Notre Dame
2 Michigan State
3 Alabama
4 Georgia
5 UCLA
6 Nebraska
7 Purdue
8 Georgia Tech
9 Miami (FL)
10 SMU

The top four teams are familiar names. Some of today's powers did not make the top ten. Ohio State was 4-5 that season, OU 6-4, Clemson 6-4, LSU 5-4-1. Pitt went 1-9 in 1966 and to prove that was no fluke went 1-9 in 1967 and 1-9 in 1968. Pitt was great before World War II. If they were a football power, it was in the 1920's and 1930's. But they are not a once mighty program. I agree about Miami and Nebraska. They are "once mighty powers" that have tumbled. I would not consider Georgia Tech a "blueblood," but they have had some great seasons. With all the high school football talent in Georgia, they should be better than they are.
06-24-2020 02:59 PM
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TerryD Offline
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RE: Once mighty programs
(06-24-2020 02:59 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-23-2020 08:27 AM)esayem Wrote:  Historically, Pitt was a power. In my lifetime, not so much. I wouldn’t consider Colorado a blue blood (much like BYU and Washington), but they had a nice thing going for a few seasons. Nebraska and Oklahoma dominated the Big 8.

In my lifetime, really only Miami and Nebraska have tumbled. The rest of the blue bloods still play in major bowls pretty consistently. Georgia Tech is a historical blue blood, but besides the one-off in the early 90’s, they’ve lost their luster as well.

I have been following college football since the mid-1960's. I played in my first organized football league in 1966, saw my first college football game in 1966 (Air Force at Stanford) and watched the Game of the Century on TV in 1966 (Notre Dame at Michigan State), which ended in a 10-10 tie. In 1965, the AP started doing a final poll after the bowl games. This was the 1966 AP final poll:

1 Notre Dame
2 Michigan State
3 Alabama
4 Georgia
5 UCLA
6 Nebraska
7 Purdue
8 Georgia Tech
9 Miami (FL)
10 SMU

The top four teams are familiar names. Some of today's powers did not make the top ten. Ohio State was 4-5 that season, OU 6-4, Clemson 6-4, LSU 5-4-1. Pitt went 1-9 in 1966 and to prove that was no fluke went 1-9 in 1967 and 1-9 in 1968. Pitt was great before World War II. If they were a football power, it was in the 1920's and 1930's. But they are not a once mighty program. I agree about Miami and Nebraska. They are "once mighty powers" that have tumbled. I would not consider Georgia Tech a "blueblood," but they have had some great seasons. With all the high school football talent in Georgia, they should be better than they are.


I remember that season well.

A guy named Terry (Hanratty) from Western Pennsylvania was the starting quarterback at national champion Notre Dame.

That caught the attention of a 9 year old ND fan named Terry living in Western Pennsylvania.

The icing on the cake was that both Terry Hanratty and Rocky Bleier were drafted off that ND team by the hometown Pittsburgh Steelers.

Good times.
06-24-2020 09:42 PM
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