A quick glance over at Tar Heel football recruiting shows that the second coming of dadgummit recruiting is upon us in ACC football. UNC is cleaning up high end talent in the state of NC. There's enough high end football talent in NC to feed one and only one team after the the national powers have raided their fill. And it looks like UNC is getting all of those players right now.

This is all very very bad news for Dave Doeren and the Pack ... which appear to have squandered UNC not caring about football for the better part of two decades.

I suspect in the longer term this will probably hurt Clemson some too as they were collecting a lot of that talent in NC previously.

(06-03-2020 12:57 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  A quick glance over at Tar Heel football recruiting shows that the second coming of dadgummit recruiting is upon us in ACC football. UNC is cleaning up high end talent in the state of NC. There's enough high end football talent in NC to feed one and only one team after the the national powers have raided their fill. And it looks like UNC is getting all of those players right now.

This is all very very bad news for Dave Doeren and the Pack ... which appear to have squandered UNC not caring about football for the better part of two decades.

I suspect in the longer term this will probably hurt Clemson some too as they were collecting a lot of that talent in NC previously.

(06-03-2020 12:57 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  A quick glance over at Tar Heel football recruiting shows that the second coming of dadgummit recruiting is upon us in ACC football. UNC is cleaning up high end talent in the state of NC. There's enough high end football talent in NC to feed one and only one team after the the national powers have raided their fill. And it looks like UNC is getting all of those players right now.

This is all very very bad news for Dave Doeren and the Pack ... which appear to have squandered UNC not caring about football for the better part of two decades.

I suspect in the longer term this will probably hurt Clemson some too as they were collecting a lot of that talent in NC previously.

Not really. We'll still get who we want.

Doeren has a winning record vs UNC despite never "out recruiting" them.

Nevermind the fact 247 always ranks UNC players high in order to appease the large number of UNC subscribers to their "services."

Besides, Doeren isn't in any kind of hot seat. NC State has shown over the past few decades they are more than happy to remain mediocre in everything and nobody personifies mediocre more than Dave Doeren.

You can't win an ACC title on NC talent. UNC has proven that over the last 40 years.
You also can't win an ACC title on the sparse talent in SC.

You have to have 4 star or better players from Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Va, and Pa to compete at the highest level.

We has significant coaching turnover and a QB problem last year.

That said 247 ranks the per kid numbers for the ACC at:

1. Clemson 94 (Ga, Fl, NC, Cal, MD, Pa, TN)
2. ND 91.3
3. UNC 91 (13 from NC, SC, TN)
4. FSU 89 (Fl, Texas, Al, MS, SC)
5. UM 88
6. NC State 87 (ND, Ga, SC)
7. Pitt (Va, FL.Michigan, Pa, Ga MD, Ohio, Texas), UVa, GT, Louis 86
11. VT, Duke 85
12. BC, WF, Syracuse

NC State has only singed 8 kids so far.

As far as Mack Brown and his connections, Carolina has always had more talent than most and done the least with it in conference history. Monroe may be a difference maker if he continues to develop.

Not having real access to the Pa, MD, DC, and Va recruiting market due to being in the Atlantic is a big problem for us because historically our best teams always had 3-4 kids from this region in every class. The are very few kids in SC, Kentucky, Mass, and NY. To top it off, we don't have the cadre of bag men we need to make church donations or find parents jobs and houses that others do which represents a somewhat of a lack of commitment.

The bottom line is that NC State has three games a year against schools that we can not out recruit in football. Clemson has no such games. Carolina has such a game only when they play Clemson every 6 years. It makes a difference over the accumulation of 4-5 classes.

Combine that with rarely being mentally ready to play Wake and there you are.

Over the last 60 years NC State has produced 7 NFL starting QB's.

60's - Roman Gabriel - From NC
80's - Erik Kramer - From California
90'00's - Philip Rivers - From Alabama
00's - Russell Wilson - From Va
10's - Mike Glennon - From Va
10's - Jacoby Brissett - From Florida
10's - Ryan Finley - From Idaho

Our current 4 start QB recruit is from Georgia. The point is this. You can't win an ACC title against Clemson, Florida State, VT, etc., using kids from just North Carolina.

NC seems to me to produce more defensive tackles, linemen, and running backs. Reliance on this talent has always been an Achilles heel of UNC. They get good QB's and receivers, but not the really great ones, but I think this goes back to Carolina offensive and defensive philosophy that is unchanged from the days of Choo Choo Justice and Bill Dooley.

State is mediocre as hell but the divisonal lineup doesn't do us any favors. The 2014, 2016 and 2018 National Champs have come from our division.

(06-03-2020 05:57 PM)YouPeople Wrote:  State is mediocre as hell but the divisonal lineup doesn't do us any favors. The 2014, 2016 and 2018 National Champs have come from our division.

And what explains the mediocrity that preceded divisional play being implemented? You don't have a .506 all-time record because of 15 years of divisional play. You don't have no appearances in any top tier bowls because of 15 years of divisional play. You don't have just a single final top 10 ranking all-time because of 15 years of divisional play. You don't have just a single double digit win season all-time because of 15 years of divisional play.

(06-03-2020 06:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-03-2020 05:57 PM)YouPeople Wrote:  State is mediocre as hell but the divisonal lineup doesn't do us any favors. The 2014, 2016 and 2018 National Champs have come from our division.

And what explains the mediocrity that preceded divisional play being implemented? You don't have a .506 all-time record because of 15 years of divisional play. You don't have no appearances in any top tier bowls because of 15 years of divisional play. You don't have just a single final top 10 ranking all-time because of 15 years of divisional play. You don't have just a single double digit win season all-time because of 15 years of divisional play.

Don't have no? How old are you?


But to answer your question.....NC schools have cared more about hoops. Hasn't that been obvious? Unfortunately that has turned out to be a mistake given how football is the cash cow. In State's case they have even managed to F that up since running off Valvano.

State's athletic dept has made a ton of bad decisions so I'm not making any excuses. I wish NCSU had the passion, money and resources for football that we see at Clemson. There's no acceptable reason that we don't.

While you had Frank Howard to worship we had some guy named Everett Case. Clemson basketball has always been a joke...lucky for you Clemson chose to focus on the right sport...we didn't.

1957 - Kentucky took our Orange Bowl and gave it Duke over basketball recruiting
1967 - We lost a single score game at Penn State, when we ranked 3rd at the time - cost us the Orange Bowl
1973 - We played at Nebraska, Georgia, and Penn State and lost all three games by close scores
2002 - After starting 8-0 we drew up tight against GT and got too conservative.
2017 - Lost the opener to South Carolina in Charlotte where no one wanted to be - lost by one score to you after losing at ND
2018 - Lost to Syracuse after losing to you

Your obsession with NC State football is somewhat pathological. No we have never had that break that got us over the hump. For the longest time we played road games for money and absorb losses that eliminated several 9 or 10 win seasons. I can assure that had we been in the Coastal and did not have to play the three highest dollar ACC football programs every year, things might be a little different. Don't you all have some cleanup on aisle 9 to take care of down there?

(06-03-2020 08:04 PM)Statefan Wrote:  2002 - After starting 8-0 we drew up tight against GT and got too conservative.

OMG. AJ Suggs, the TN transfer. He was no great shakes. But NCST made him look like Tom Brady in the 4th Quarter. Inexplicable. That's the only quality win AJ Suggs ever chalked or even got remotely close to chalking at GT. I vividly remember leaving Death Valley with a groan after he bounce passed it (and not for the first time) on 4th down with the game on the line. How dare you give me memories of the early Gailey years. Or most of them really.

(06-03-2020 08:48 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(06-03-2020 08:04 PM)Statefan Wrote:  2002 - After starting 8-0 we drew up tight against GT and got too conservative.

OMG. AJ Suggs, the TN transfer. He was no great shakes. But NCST made him look like Tom Brady in the 4th Quarter. Inexplicable. That's the only quality win AJ Suggs ever chalked or even got remotely close to chalking at GT. I vividly remember leaving Death Valley with a groan after he bounce passed it (and not for the first time) on 4th down with the game on the line. How dare you give me memories of the early Gailey years. Or most of them really.

Ugh. I remember the drive that ultimately put you guys ahead. Two crazy things happened....1) we stopped you on 4th down but you got hit for a delay of game penalty. Next play Suggs hit a long one for a 1st down. 2) Later in the drive, Suggs hit our corner, Greg Golden, in the chest in the endzone only for him to drop it. A few plays later GT scored. Unbelievably painful loss.

(06-03-2020 12:57 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  A quick glance over at Tar Heel football recruiting shows that the second coming of dadgummit recruiting is upon us in ACC football. UNC is cleaning up high end talent in the state of NC. There's enough high end football talent in NC to feed one and only one team after the the national powers have raided their fill. And it looks like UNC is getting all of those players right now.

This is all very very bad news for Dave Doeren and the Pack ... which appear to have squandered UNC not caring about football for the better part of two decades.

I suspect in the longer term this will probably hurt Clemson some too as they were collecting a lot of that talent in NC previously.

I don't know how Doeren survived last year after losing to the worst GT team in 25 years, especially how pitiful the performance was. I know in the end NCSU lost by 2 but was down 18 twice in that game. The two other coaches that lost to GT were a first-year HC in Miami (Diaz) and Charlie Strong at USF who did get fired.

I see a lot of staff turnover at the end of last season for Doeren. That's usually a desperation move to save your own job. Guess we will see if it pays off.

(06-05-2020 09:17 AM)copycat Wrote:  

(06-03-2020 12:57 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  A quick glance over at Tar Heel football recruiting shows that the second coming of dadgummit recruiting is upon us in ACC football. UNC is cleaning up high end talent in the state of NC. There's enough high end football talent in NC to feed one and only one team after the the national powers have raided their fill. And it looks like UNC is getting all of those players right now.

This is all very very bad news for Dave Doeren and the Pack ... which appear to have squandered UNC not caring about football for the better part of two decades.

I suspect in the longer term this will probably hurt Clemson some too as they were collecting a lot of that talent in NC previously.

I don't know how Doeren survived last year after losing to the worst GT team in 25 years, especially how pitiful the performance was. I know in the end NCSU lost by 2 but was down 18 twice in that game. The two other coaches that lost to GT were a first-year HC in Miami (Diaz) and Charlie Strong at USF who did get fired.

I see a lot of staff turnover at the end of last season for Doeren. That's usually a desperation move to save your own job. Guess we will see if it pays off.

Last year was a perfect storm of youth and injuries. After all the guys left for the NFL over '17 and '18, we were going to be VERY inexperienced and playing a new QB. Then everyone and their brother got hurt seemingly each and every week. By the time we played UNC at the end of last year, we had TRUE freshmen playing all over the place. Guys that should have been redshirting for sure. I remember having a True Fr. corner that game that had played WR almost all season. It was crazy. Anyway, State was going to be a 6-7 win team if healthy last year....and that didn't happen.

Injuries happen though. Quite honestly the previous 3-4 years State had been fortunate to avoid many injuries....but the law of averages caught up with us.

Hopefully the experienced gain last year will pay dividends....that and hiring a new OC and DC should hopefully help.

(06-03-2020 05:57 PM)YouPeople Wrote:  State is mediocre as hell but the divisonal lineup doesn't do us any favors. The 2014, 2016 and 2018 National Champs have come from our division.

That excuse would be more believable if you guys werent 6-6 against the Coastal since 2014

(06-03-2020 08:04 PM)Statefan Wrote:  1957 - Kentucky took our Orange Bowl and gave it Duke over basketball recruiting
1967 - We lost a single score game at Penn State, when we ranked 3rd at the time - cost us the Orange Bowl
1973 - We played at Nebraska, Georgia, and Penn State and lost all three games by close scores
2002 - After starting 8-0 we drew up tight against GT and got too conservative.
2017 - Lost the opener to South Carolina in Charlotte where no one wanted to be - lost by one score to you after losing at ND
2018 - Lost to Syracuse after losing to you

Your obsession with NC State football is somewhat pathological. No we have never had that break that got us over the hump. For the longest time we played road games for money and absorb losses that eliminated several 9 or 10 win seasons. I can assure that had we been in the Coastal and did not have to play the three highest dollar ACC football programs every year, things might be a little different. Don't you all have some cleanup on aisle 9 to take care of down there?

. We need a poll

Who does Kaplony/Catdady hate more with the white-hot passion of a thousand burning suns? Syracuse or NCSt

(06-15-2020 11:00 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-03-2020 08:04 PM)Statefan Wrote:  1957 - Kentucky took our Orange Bowl and gave it Duke over basketball recruiting
1967 - We lost a single score game at Penn State, when we ranked 3rd at the time - cost us the Orange Bowl
1973 - We played at Nebraska, Georgia, and Penn State and lost all three games by close scores
2002 - After starting 8-0 we drew up tight against GT and got too conservative.
2017 - Lost the opener to South Carolina in Charlotte where no one wanted to be - lost by one score to you after losing at ND
2018 - Lost to Syracuse after losing to you

Your obsession with NC State football is somewhat pathological. No we have never had that break that got us over the hump. For the longest time we played road games for money and absorb losses that eliminated several 9 or 10 win seasons. I can assure that had we been in the Coastal and did not have to play the three highest dollar ACC football programs every year, things might be a little different. Don't you all have some cleanup on aisle 9 to take care of down there?

. We need a poll

Who does Kaplony/Catdady hate more with the white-hot passion of a thousand burning suns? Syracuse or NCSt

Obviously, Clemson’s big-time Textile Bowl rivalry with State. Everybody knows it’s their main rival behind the Cocks.

(06-15-2020 07:33 AM)ColumbusCard Wrote:  

(06-03-2020 05:57 PM)YouPeople Wrote:  State is mediocre as hell but the divisonal lineup doesn't do us any favors. The 2014, 2016 and 2018 National Champs have come from our division.

That excuse would be more believable if you guys werent 6-6 against the Coastal since 2014

In 14 we lost to No. 8 GT (We lost to final ranked 5/8/15/24)
In 15 we lost to no 15 UNC, and an Unranked VT (we lost to final ranked 2/14/15)
In 16 we lost to no 20 Miami (we lost to final ranked 1/8/20/21)
In 17 we lost to final ranked 4 and 6
In 18 we lost to final ranked 1/15/21
It was not until last year in a 4-8 season that we lost to Unranked UNC and GT and lost only to final ranked 2

In the time frame you mention we caught GT with their last great team, UNC with it's last great team, and Miami with it's last "great team". NC State does not have the redundant depth to play four top teams in the span of 8-9 weeks and prevail. We damn sure don't have the depth to play top 10 teams back to back. That's a fact, not an excuse.