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Should D1 and D2 Combined Their Championships For Non-Revenue Sports?
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DavidSt Offline
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Should D1 and D2 Combined Their Championships For Non-Revenue Sports?
With the rash of D1 and D2 schools dropping sports, and schools closing for good or downgrade their sports? There may not be enough teams for a championship at both levels. Sports I am looking at to combined both division to save sports at both levels are:

Baseball
softball
men's wrestling
women's wrestling
cross country
track
swimming and diving
golf
tennis

Getting D2 schools up from those areas could help as affiliates for G5, FCS and non-football conferences. Do you think the D2 schools in these areas may have helped saved Akron, ECU, CMU and others from dropping the sports?

We might moved the sports into a single sports conference like the water sports or others like that into regions.
05-23-2020 12:03 PM
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johnbragg Online
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RE: Should D1 and D2 Combined Their Championships For Non-Revenue Sports?
(05-23-2020 12:03 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  With the rash of D1 and D2 schools dropping sports, and schools closing for good or downgrade their sports? There may not be enough teams for a championship at both levels.

This is actually a possibility for some of these sports. From a quick zip through wikipedia, men's wrestling has only 70 Division I, 60 Division II and 94 Division III schools. And I don't know how updated those numbers are, so it might well be lower.

Baseball. 297 Division I programs.
Softball 286 Division I programs.
men's wrestling 70 Division I programs--could combine divisions
women's wrestling--emerging sport.
cross country, indoor track, outdoor track--super cheap, one staff 3 sports
swimming and diving--I don't have time to count, but there are a LOT
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co...ving_teams

golf, tennis: I'm not sure how many teams there are. I don't know if there close to hockey level where the NCAA combines divisions.

Quote:Do you think the D2 schools in these areas may have helped saved Akron, ECU, CMU and others from dropping the sports?

No, absolutely not. There is not enough money in the travel budget to save a sport if cuts must be made. Akron was supposed to travel this spring to play series at LAmar, at Pepperdine, at Marshall and at Lipscomb (Nashville).

If travel was as important as DavidSt thinks, they'd have played Horizon League and Missouri Valley schools instead of traveling to Texas and California.

Quote:We might moved the sports into a single sports conference like the water sports or others like that into regions.

I don't see much appetite for reorganizing minor sports.
05-23-2020 12:40 PM
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AZcats Offline
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RE: Should D1 and D2 Combined Their Championships For Non-Revenue Sports?
Just another fantasy scheme to get D2 schools to move to D1. No part of this plan saves anything; in fact it significantly increases the burden on D2 schools to be competitive with the D1 schools. The scholarship limit in these sports may be a difference of only 1 or 2 but there is a huge difference in the amount of funding between D1 and D2. There is also a huge gap in the talent level between the divisions. The sports have enough teams within their own divisions, otherwise the NCAA would reclassify them into the single National Collegiate Division. All these D2 sports have an acceptable postseason participation percentage from 10-35%. If that percentage was in the 80-90 range, then you can consider combining them.

D2 teams
Baseball - 263
softball - 290
men's wrestling - 63
cross country - 279m/302w
track outdoor - 225m/255w
swimming and diving - 77m/103w
golf - 223m/197w
tennis - 157m/219w
(This post was last modified: 05-23-2020 05:14 PM by AZcats.)
05-23-2020 02:13 PM
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TDenverFan Online
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RE: Should D1 and D2 Combined Their Championships For Non-Revenue Sports?
Sports like baseball, softball, and wrestling are definitely revenue generating for top D1 schools.
05-23-2020 02:31 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: Should D1 and D2 Combined Their Championships For Non-Revenue Sports?
(05-23-2020 12:40 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(05-23-2020 12:03 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  With the rash of D1 and D2 schools dropping sports, and schools closing for good or downgrade their sports? There may not be enough teams for a championship at both levels.

This is actually a possibility for some of these sports. From a quick zip through wikipedia, men's wrestling has only 70 Division I, 60 Division II and 94 Division III schools. And I don't know how updated those numbers are, so it might well be lower.

Baseball. 297 Division I programs.
Softball 286 Division I programs.
men's wrestling 70 Division I programs--could combine divisions
women's wrestling--emerging sport.
cross country, indoor track, outdoor track--super cheap, one staff 3 sports
swimming and diving--I don't have time to count, but there are a LOT
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co...ving_teams

golf, tennis: I'm not sure how many teams there are. I don't know if there close to hockey level where the NCAA combines divisions.

Quote:Do you think the D2 schools in these areas may have helped saved Akron, ECU, CMU and others from dropping the sports?

No, absolutely not. There is not enough money in the travel budget to save a sport if cuts must be made. Akron was supposed to travel this spring to play series at LAmar, at Pepperdine, at Marshall and at Lipscomb (Nashville).

If travel was as important as DavidSt thinks, they'd have played Horizon League and Missouri Valley schools instead of traveling to Texas and California.

Quote:We might moved the sports into a single sports conference like the water sports or others like that into regions.

I don't see much appetite for reorganizing minor sports.

Wiki is not updated since there have been teams cut because A.Downgraded to D3 or NAIA, or D1 schools downgraded to D2 or 3, B.schools dropping the sports, or C.schools closing. Urbana, Concordia-Portland and St. Joseph's Indiana had baseball and many sites still list them with football. The 4 schools closing with Urbana, Notre Dame De Namur, Concordia-Portland and St. Joseph's Indiana had football. Wiki still listed Oakland City (going to NAIA), Bellarmine, California Baptist, North Alabama, UCSD, Dixie State, Merrimack, LIU-Post, Tarleton State, and Armstrong State fielding D2 sports like other sites as well. With a lot of sports lost in D1 and D2? Does it really matter how many schools are close by? It is the travel cost that eats up the budget. Horizon, MVC, northern OVC, MAC and D2 schools in the mid-west form an alliance.It could benefit P5 schools as well. Missouri is looking at cutting sports as well.
05-24-2020 03:21 AM
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BruceMcF Online
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RE: Should D1 and D2 Combined Their Championships For Non-Revenue Sports?
(05-23-2020 02:31 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  Sports like baseball, softball, and wrestling are definitely revenue generating for top D1 schools.

It IS oversimplifying to split into just revenue and subsidy sports ... there are the sports that in their own regions are break-even or better for their more successful schools - baseball when you get far enough south to avoid three to four weeks on the road at the start of the season, lacrosse in its region, hockey in its region.
05-25-2020 12:02 PM
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