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Is the PAC 12 in danger of a major collapse?
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #1
Is the PAC 12 in danger of a major collapse?
Finebaum seems to think so:

The Spun talks about it


Quote:Finebaum added that the Pac-12, which is already struggling for national relevance, is in “big danger” moving forward.

“I think it’s free agency. I think it’s probably already going on if you’re sitting there at Clemson or Alabama or Florida or Georgia or Michigan and you’re thinking ‘I’ve got a shot at picking off some of the better players in the country.’ You’re going to do it,” Finebaum said this morning, per 247Sports. “It’s not like the Pac-12 was healthy anyway. This program is already a mess. It barely shows up on the radar screen. Last year Oregon and Utah had a shot then they both lost late in the season.
05-14-2020 04:01 PM
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OdinFrigg Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Is the PAC 12 in danger of a major collapse?
(05-14-2020 04:01 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Finebaum seems to think so:

The Spun talks about it


Quote:Finebaum added that the Pac-12, which is already struggling for national relevance, is in “big danger” moving forward.

“I think it’s free agency. I think it’s probably already going on if you’re sitting there at Clemson or Alabama or Florida or Georgia or Michigan and you’re thinking ‘I’ve got a shot at picking off some of the better players in the country.’ You’re going to do it,” Finebaum said this morning, per 247Sports. “It’s not like the Pac-12 was healthy anyway. This program is already a mess. It barely shows up on the radar screen. Last year Oregon and Utah had a shot then they both lost late in the season.

Thanks for sharing, ATU.

Exploiting the "free agent" factor during a pandemic will not look good and is a rather disgusting tactic. The PAC12 wants to play football in the fall as does other conferences, major and minor. Feinbaum waits till the last sentence to mention "health and safety", then noting
It will be a shame if those games don't take place. That sounds disingenuous. He can't be so sure elsewhere in the country will be rosy for football in a few months either. We can all hope for the better, and try to be optimistic that each locale makes wise decisions going forward during this worrisome time period.

The PAC12 has some problems they need to fix. Three or four of their traditional powers have underperformed too frequently in recent years. There are troubles with TV carriage, revenue enhancements, fan enthusiasm, demographic impact, conference leadership, and with some administrators and coaching at individual schools. They can repair much of it at some point. Feinbaum sounds as if the PAC12 is doomed. I don't buy that messaging.
(This post was last modified: 05-14-2020 05:39 PM by OdinFrigg.)
05-14-2020 05:33 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Is the PAC 12 in danger of a major collapse?
(05-14-2020 05:33 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  
(05-14-2020 04:01 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Finebaum seems to think so:

The Spun talks about it


Quote:Finebaum added that the Pac-12, which is already struggling for national relevance, is in “big danger” moving forward.

“I think it’s free agency. I think it’s probably already going on if you’re sitting there at Clemson or Alabama or Florida or Georgia or Michigan and you’re thinking ‘I’ve got a shot at picking off some of the better players in the country.’ You’re going to do it,” Finebaum said this morning, per 247Sports. “It’s not like the Pac-12 was healthy anyway. This program is already a mess. It barely shows up on the radar screen. Last year Oregon and Utah had a shot then they both lost late in the season.

Thanks for sharing, ATU.

Exploiting the "free agent" factor during a pandemic will not look good and is a rather disgusting tactic. The PAC12 wants to play football in the fall as does other conferences, major and minor. Feinbaum waits till the last sentence to mention "health and safety", then noting
It will be a shame if those games don't take place. That sounds disingenuous. He can't be so sure elsewhere in the country will be rosy for football in a few months either. We can all hope for the better, and try to be optimistic that each locale makes wise decisions going forward during this worrisome time period.

The PAC12 has some problems they need to fix. Three or four of their traditional powers have underperformed too frequently in recent years. There are troubles with TV carriage, revenue enhancements, fan enthusiasm, demographic impact, conference leadership, and with some administrators and coaching at individual schools. They can repair much of it at some point. Feinbaum sounds as if the PAC12 is doomed. I don't buy that messaging.

I guess you missed the Chancellor of Higher Educations ruling this morning within the State of California. All of California's State Institutions of higher learning will be closed this Fall and will remain closed until Fall of 2021. They will have online education and special fields of study like Nursing and Medicine will continue but with classes being taught at multiple times with small well spaced classes.

But there won't be any football at California and U.C.L.A., San Diego State, etc. So what the privates like Stanford and U.S.C. choose to do will be interesting to say the least.

I can promise you that if they don't play and the other conferences do there will be some major fallout for PAC athletics from that decision. Remember we are talking about wiping out Spring sports in 2021 as well.

So Paul, who I don't really care for, is probably right about this. College athletics is a dog eat dog war in the trenches of recruiting and if star players want to enter the NFL draft and they have a year or two of eligibility left it will be open season on them.

What will be interesting to watch is what U.S.C., Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah decide to do. I could see those four moving to the Big 12 and revitalizing that conference if the crap show that is the PAC continues. If those 4 go and Stanford ever wanted to head in that direction (which I consider much less likely than USC) it would be interesting to see if that lured Notre Dame as well.

It will be fascinating to watch.
05-14-2020 06:13 PM
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OdinFrigg Offline
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RE: Is the PAC 12 in danger of a major collapse?
(05-14-2020 06:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-14-2020 05:33 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  
(05-14-2020 04:01 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Finebaum seems to think so:

The Spun talks about it


Quote:Finebaum added that the Pac-12, which is already struggling for national relevance, is in “big danger” moving forward.

“I think it’s free agency. I think it’s probably already going on if you’re sitting there at Clemson or Alabama or Florida or Georgia or Michigan and you’re thinking ‘I’ve got a shot at picking off some of the better players in the country.’ You’re going to do it,” Finebaum said this morning, per 247Sports. “It’s not like the Pac-12 was healthy anyway. This program is already a mess. It barely shows up on the radar screen. Last year Oregon and Utah had a shot then they both lost late in the season.

Thanks for sharing, ATU.

Exploiting the "free agent" factor during a pandemic will not look good and is a rather disgusting tactic. The PAC12 wants to play football in the fall as does other conferences, major and minor. Feinbaum waits till the last sentence to mention "health and safety", then noting
It will be a shame if those games don't take place. That sounds disingenuous. He can't be so sure elsewhere in the country will be rosy for football in a few months either. We can all hope for the better, and try to be optimistic that each locale makes wise decisions going forward during this worrisome time period.

The PAC12 has some problems they need to fix. Three or four of their traditional powers have underperformed too frequently in recent years. There are troubles with TV carriage, revenue enhancements, fan enthusiasm, demographic impact, conference leadership, and with some administrators and coaching at individual schools. They can repair much of it at some point. Feinbaum sounds as if the PAC12 is doomed. I don't buy that messaging.

I guess you missed the Chancellor of Higher Educations ruling this morning within the State of California. All of California's State Institutions of higher learning will be closed this Fall and will remain closed until Fall of 2021. They will have online education and special fields of study like Nursing and Medicine will continue but with classes being taught at multiple times with small well spaced classes.

But there won't be any football at California and U.C.L.A., San Diego State, etc. So what the privates like Stanford and U.S.C. choose to do will be interesting to say the least.

I can promise you that if they don't play and the other conferences do there will be some major fallout for PAC athletics from that decision. Remember we are talking about wiping out Spring sports in 2021 as well.

So Paul, who I don't really care for, is probably right about this. College athletics is a dog eat dog war in the trenches of recruiting and if star players want to enter the NFL draft and they have a year or two of eligibility left it will be open season on them.

What will be interesting to watch is what U.S.C., Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah decide to do. I could see those four moving to the Big 12 and revitalizing that conference if the crap show that is the PAC continues. If those 4 go and Stanford ever wanted to head in that direction (which I consider much less likely than USC) it would be interesting to see if that lured Notre Dame as well.

It will be fascinating to watch.

JRsec, I heard that news yesterday, including the woman President of Cal State, Bakersfield appearing on CNN, and it was reiterated on an early morning show on another network. Talked to a friend in Atlanta day before yesterday, and she said her married daughter in San Luis Obispo would not be having on-campus classes available in her graduate program. I probably knew about it before Feinbaum.

Cancel on-campus classes, cancel fall sports. Some places elsewhere are talking about sports activity with online classes only. That will be a political controversy wherever that may happen.
05-14-2020 09:10 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Is the PAC 12 in danger of a major collapse?
(05-14-2020 09:10 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  
(05-14-2020 06:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-14-2020 05:33 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  
(05-14-2020 04:01 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Finebaum seems to think so:

The Spun talks about it


Quote:Finebaum added that the Pac-12, which is already struggling for national relevance, is in “big danger” moving forward.

“I think it’s free agency. I think it’s probably already going on if you’re sitting there at Clemson or Alabama or Florida or Georgia or Michigan and you’re thinking ‘I’ve got a shot at picking off some of the better players in the country.’ You’re going to do it,” Finebaum said this morning, per 247Sports. “It’s not like the Pac-12 was healthy anyway. This program is already a mess. It barely shows up on the radar screen. Last year Oregon and Utah had a shot then they both lost late in the season.

Thanks for sharing, ATU.

Exploiting the "free agent" factor during a pandemic will not look good and is a rather disgusting tactic. The PAC12 wants to play football in the fall as does other conferences, major and minor. Feinbaum waits till the last sentence to mention "health and safety", then noting
It will be a shame if those games don't take place. That sounds disingenuous. He can't be so sure elsewhere in the country will be rosy for football in a few months either. We can all hope for the better, and try to be optimistic that each locale makes wise decisions going forward during this worrisome time period.

The PAC12 has some problems they need to fix. Three or four of their traditional powers have underperformed too frequently in recent years. There are troubles with TV carriage, revenue enhancements, fan enthusiasm, demographic impact, conference leadership, and with some administrators and coaching at individual schools. They can repair much of it at some point. Feinbaum sounds as if the PAC12 is doomed. I don't buy that messaging.

I guess you missed the Chancellor of Higher Educations ruling this morning within the State of California. All of California's State Institutions of higher learning will be closed this Fall and will remain closed until Fall of 2021. They will have online education and special fields of study like Nursing and Medicine will continue but with classes being taught at multiple times with small well spaced classes.

But there won't be any football at California and U.C.L.A., San Diego State, etc. So what the privates like Stanford and U.S.C. choose to do will be interesting to say the least.

I can promise you that if they don't play and the other conferences do there will be some major fallout for PAC athletics from that decision. Remember we are talking about wiping out Spring sports in 2021 as well.

So Paul, who I don't really care for, is probably right about this. College athletics is a dog eat dog war in the trenches of recruiting and if star players want to enter the NFL draft and they have a year or two of eligibility left it will be open season on them.

What will be interesting to watch is what U.S.C., Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah decide to do. I could see those four moving to the Big 12 and revitalizing that conference if the crap show that is the PAC continues. If those 4 go and Stanford ever wanted to head in that direction (which I consider much less likely than USC) it would be interesting to see if that lured Notre Dame as well.

It will be fascinating to watch.

JRsec, I heard that news yesterday, including the woman President of Cal State, Bakersfield appearing on CNN, and it was reiterated on an early morning show on another network. Talked to a friend in Atlanta day before yesterday, and she said her married daughter in San Luis Obispo would not be having on-campus classes available in her graduate program. I probably knew about it before Feinbaum.

Cancel on-campus classes, cancel fall sports. Some places elsewhere are talking about sports activity with online classes only. That will be a political controversy wherever that may happen.

Be that as it may it was made official this morning with a press conference. Leaks occurred earlier this week than either of us are citing. But it's official now.

The legal matters that could be embroiled in all of this will be extensive. Buckle up.

For the record, and I've stated it many times, this is a biological attack. The fact nobody officially calls it that is because the residual course of action is not something anyone wants to contemplate and not anything a strategic deterrent is intended to compensate for.

COVID19 is two viruses, one from the horseshoe bat and the other from the Pangolin which have been bound together. The viruses themselves are natural. Researchers who know what they are doing say there is no explanation for how the bond was formed and it doesn't appear to be natural.

It is now recurring in areas it has already hit and in people thought to have been recovered who had tested negative for active virus. That means like HIV or Herpes it could hide in the lining of the brain where no vaccine can kill it. That means instead of a vaccine we may need a treatment that keeps the virus in hiding, which is how they treat aids and deal with shingles which is a Herpes Zoster virus left as a byproduct of chicken pox.

Because it is so communicable that might mean that 70% of all people on earth wind up needing maintenance drugs to keep from being infectious or suffering a recurrence that could be life threatening.

Either way there are no hard answers for where we head next. I don't see this as a blue state / red state issue. I see this as leaders looking at two different approaches. One is isolation to prevent spread which if this virus recurs will be ineffective long term. The other presupposes exposure so that herd immunity development by allowing the youngest with the healthiest immune system begins to resist the virus. This assumes that the body can develop resistance. That doesn't work for malaria, nor does it work for HIV or Herpes.

I'm not optimistic.
05-14-2020 09:45 PM
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Transic_nyc Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Is the PAC 12 in danger of a major collapse?
(05-14-2020 06:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-14-2020 05:33 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  
(05-14-2020 04:01 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Finebaum seems to think so:

The Spun talks about it


Quote:Finebaum added that the Pac-12, which is already struggling for national relevance, is in “big danger” moving forward.

“I think it’s free agency. I think it’s probably already going on if you’re sitting there at Clemson or Alabama or Florida or Georgia or Michigan and you’re thinking ‘I’ve got a shot at picking off some of the better players in the country.’ You’re going to do it,” Finebaum said this morning, per 247Sports. “It’s not like the Pac-12 was healthy anyway. This program is already a mess. It barely shows up on the radar screen. Last year Oregon and Utah had a shot then they both lost late in the season.

Thanks for sharing, ATU.

Exploiting the "free agent" factor during a pandemic will not look good and is a rather disgusting tactic. The PAC12 wants to play football in the fall as does other conferences, major and minor. Feinbaum waits till the last sentence to mention "health and safety", then noting
It will be a shame if those games don't take place. That sounds disingenuous. He can't be so sure elsewhere in the country will be rosy for football in a few months either. We can all hope for the better, and try to be optimistic that each locale makes wise decisions going forward during this worrisome time period.

The PAC12 has some problems they need to fix. Three or four of their traditional powers have underperformed too frequently in recent years. There are troubles with TV carriage, revenue enhancements, fan enthusiasm, demographic impact, conference leadership, and with some administrators and coaching at individual schools. They can repair much of it at some point. Feinbaum sounds as if the PAC12 is doomed. I don't buy that messaging.

I guess you missed the Chancellor of Higher Educations ruling this morning within the State of California. All of California's State Institutions of higher learning will be closed this Fall and will remain closed until Fall of 2021. They will have online education and special fields of study like Nursing and Medicine will continue but with classes being taught at multiple times with small well spaced classes.

But there won't be any football at California and U.C.L.A., San Diego State, etc. So what the privates like Stanford and U.S.C. choose to do will be interesting to say the least.

I can promise you that if they don't play and the other conferences do there will be some major fallout for PAC athletics from that decision. Remember we are talking about wiping out Spring sports in 2021 as well.

So Paul, who I don't really care for, is probably right about this. College athletics is a dog eat dog war in the trenches of recruiting and if star players want to enter the NFL draft and they have a year or two of eligibility left it will be open season on them.

What will be interesting to watch is what U.S.C., Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah decide to do. I could see those four moving to the Big 12 and revitalizing that conference if the crap show that is the PAC continues. If those 4 go and Stanford ever wanted to head in that direction (which I consider much less likely than USC) it would be interesting to see if that lured Notre Dame as well.

It will be fascinating to watch.

I wonder about Colorado. It's a blue enough state that the leaders might eventually follow California's lead in cancelling on-campus classes. However, assuming that they want to re-open, it is close enough to the central areas (even if pretty far from the core of the Big Ten area) that the Big Ten might be tempted into offering them something to help out their schedule in the hopes that they'd join sometime later. Otherwise, the Big 12 might pounce on them.

USC and Stanford are another matter. Not only are they far from the Big Ten area but also the Big 12 area. Those two may end up going the independence route as there is no conference that makes better sense for them than the PAC 12. They should ask BYU and Liberty for more games.
05-14-2020 10:58 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Is the PAC 12 in danger of a major collapse?
(05-14-2020 06:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-14-2020 05:33 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  
(05-14-2020 04:01 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Finebaum seems to think so:

The Spun talks about it


Quote:Finebaum added that the Pac-12, which is already struggling for national relevance, is in “big danger” moving forward.

“I think it’s free agency. I think it’s probably already going on if you’re sitting there at Clemson or Alabama or Florida or Georgia or Michigan and you’re thinking ‘I’ve got a shot at picking off some of the better players in the country.’ You’re going to do it,” Finebaum said this morning, per 247Sports. “It’s not like the Pac-12 was healthy anyway. This program is already a mess. It barely shows up on the radar screen. Last year Oregon and Utah had a shot then they both lost late in the season.

Thanks for sharing, ATU.

Exploiting the "free agent" factor during a pandemic will not look good and is a rather disgusting tactic. The PAC12 wants to play football in the fall as does other conferences, major and minor. Feinbaum waits till the last sentence to mention "health and safety", then noting
It will be a shame if those games don't take place. That sounds disingenuous. He can't be so sure elsewhere in the country will be rosy for football in a few months either. We can all hope for the better, and try to be optimistic that each locale makes wise decisions going forward during this worrisome time period.

The PAC12 has some problems they need to fix. Three or four of their traditional powers have underperformed too frequently in recent years. There are troubles with TV carriage, revenue enhancements, fan enthusiasm, demographic impact, conference leadership, and with some administrators and coaching at individual schools. They can repair much of it at some point. Feinbaum sounds as if the PAC12 is doomed. I don't buy that messaging.

I guess you missed the Chancellor of Higher Educations ruling this morning within the State of California. All of California's State Institutions of higher learning will be closed this Fall and will remain closed until Fall of 2021. They will have online education and special fields of study like Nursing and Medicine will continue but with classes being taught at multiple times with small well spaced classes.

But there won't be any football at California and U.C.L.A., San Diego State, etc. So what the privates like Stanford and U.S.C. choose to do will be interesting to say the least.

I can promise you that if they don't play and the other conferences do there will be some major fallout for PAC athletics from that decision. Remember we are talking about wiping out Spring sports in 2021 as well.

So Paul, who I don't really care for, is probably right about this. College athletics is a dog eat dog war in the trenches of recruiting and if star players want to enter the NFL draft and they have a year or two of eligibility left it will be open season on them.

What will be interesting to watch is what U.S.C., Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah decide to do. I could see those four moving to the Big 12 and revitalizing that conference if the crap show that is the PAC continues. If those 4 go and Stanford ever wanted to head in that direction (which I consider much less likely than USC) it would be interesting to see if that lured Notre Dame as well.

It will be fascinating to watch.

Actually, it was the head of the California State system that made that call. It's a separate system from the University of California system...much the same as the UA System and the AU System are different entities here.

That means Mountain West members like San Diego State, Fresno State, and San Jose State are shutting down. I have to assume that affects the Mountain West as the NCAA would probably be leery about letting schools operate by different standards even in this climate. The decision for Cal and UCLA is made by a different entity, however. Of course, they could follow suit, but they haven't pulled the trigger.

Digging around into it, I did find something interesting. Apparently, the leader of the UC System is Janet Napolitano, but she was already scheduled to step down at the end of the academic year. Does she stay on? Does she feel the weight to make the call seeing as she's leaving soon? Does she have full power to make that call? I'm not familiar enough with their system to know.

Search for President of UC System
05-15-2020 03:18 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Is the PAC 12 in danger of a major collapse?
(05-14-2020 10:58 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  
(05-14-2020 06:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-14-2020 05:33 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  
(05-14-2020 04:01 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Finebaum seems to think so:

The Spun talks about it


Quote:Finebaum added that the Pac-12, which is already struggling for national relevance, is in “big danger” moving forward.

“I think it’s free agency. I think it’s probably already going on if you’re sitting there at Clemson or Alabama or Florida or Georgia or Michigan and you’re thinking ‘I’ve got a shot at picking off some of the better players in the country.’ You’re going to do it,” Finebaum said this morning, per 247Sports. “It’s not like the Pac-12 was healthy anyway. This program is already a mess. It barely shows up on the radar screen. Last year Oregon and Utah had a shot then they both lost late in the season.

Thanks for sharing, ATU.

Exploiting the "free agent" factor during a pandemic will not look good and is a rather disgusting tactic. The PAC12 wants to play football in the fall as does other conferences, major and minor. Feinbaum waits till the last sentence to mention "health and safety", then noting
It will be a shame if those games don't take place. That sounds disingenuous. He can't be so sure elsewhere in the country will be rosy for football in a few months either. We can all hope for the better, and try to be optimistic that each locale makes wise decisions going forward during this worrisome time period.

The PAC12 has some problems they need to fix. Three or four of their traditional powers have underperformed too frequently in recent years. There are troubles with TV carriage, revenue enhancements, fan enthusiasm, demographic impact, conference leadership, and with some administrators and coaching at individual schools. They can repair much of it at some point. Feinbaum sounds as if the PAC12 is doomed. I don't buy that messaging.

I guess you missed the Chancellor of Higher Educations ruling this morning within the State of California. All of California's State Institutions of higher learning will be closed this Fall and will remain closed until Fall of 2021. They will have online education and special fields of study like Nursing and Medicine will continue but with classes being taught at multiple times with small well spaced classes.

But there won't be any football at California and U.C.L.A., San Diego State, etc. So what the privates like Stanford and U.S.C. choose to do will be interesting to say the least.

I can promise you that if they don't play and the other conferences do there will be some major fallout for PAC athletics from that decision. Remember we are talking about wiping out Spring sports in 2021 as well.

So Paul, who I don't really care for, is probably right about this. College athletics is a dog eat dog war in the trenches of recruiting and if star players want to enter the NFL draft and they have a year or two of eligibility left it will be open season on them.

What will be interesting to watch is what U.S.C., Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah decide to do. I could see those four moving to the Big 12 and revitalizing that conference if the crap show that is the PAC continues. If those 4 go and Stanford ever wanted to head in that direction (which I consider much less likely than USC) it would be interesting to see if that lured Notre Dame as well.

It will be fascinating to watch.

I wonder about Colorado. It's a blue enough state that the leaders might eventually follow California's lead in cancelling on-campus classes. However, assuming that they want to re-open, it is close enough to the central areas (even if pretty far from the core of the Big Ten area) that the Big Ten might be tempted into offering them something to help out their schedule in the hopes that they'd join sometime later. Otherwise, the Big 12 might pounce on them.

USC and Stanford are another matter. Not only are they far from the Big Ten area but also the Big 12 area. Those two may end up going the independence route as there is no conference that makes better sense for them than the PAC 12. They should ask BYU and Liberty for more games.

The folks at Boulder are decidedly leftist although the state as a whole doesn't seem to trend quite that way.

I would gamble on them staying open. Now if we're talking about WA or OR then I might feel differently, but all of CO's border states are likely to be open. Their economics function a little differently even if CU happens to be in the PAC 12.

I tend to think the West Coast states will drag this out which, of course, affects 8 of the PAC's schools in some form or another. Could CU-Boulder end up playing a schedule comprised mostly of another conference? Is it possible the PAC 12 plays in the Spring? I don't know.
05-15-2020 03:25 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Is the PAC 12 in danger of a major collapse?
(05-15-2020 03:25 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(05-14-2020 10:58 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  
(05-14-2020 06:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-14-2020 05:33 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  
(05-14-2020 04:01 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Finebaum seems to think so:

The Spun talks about it

Thanks for sharing, ATU.

Exploiting the "free agent" factor during a pandemic will not look good and is a rather disgusting tactic. The PAC12 wants to play football in the fall as does other conferences, major and minor. Feinbaum waits till the last sentence to mention "health and safety", then noting
It will be a shame if those games don't take place. That sounds disingenuous. He can't be so sure elsewhere in the country will be rosy for football in a few months either. We can all hope for the better, and try to be optimistic that each locale makes wise decisions going forward during this worrisome time period.

The PAC12 has some problems they need to fix. Three or four of their traditional powers have underperformed too frequently in recent years. There are troubles with TV carriage, revenue enhancements, fan enthusiasm, demographic impact, conference leadership, and with some administrators and coaching at individual schools. They can repair much of it at some point. Feinbaum sounds as if the PAC12 is doomed. I don't buy that messaging.

I guess you missed the Chancellor of Higher Educations ruling this morning within the State of California. All of California's State Institutions of higher learning will be closed this Fall and will remain closed until Fall of 2021. They will have online education and special fields of study like Nursing and Medicine will continue but with classes being taught at multiple times with small well spaced classes.

But there won't be any football at California and U.C.L.A., San Diego State, etc. So what the privates like Stanford and U.S.C. choose to do will be interesting to say the least.

I can promise you that if they don't play and the other conferences do there will be some major fallout for PAC athletics from that decision. Remember we are talking about wiping out Spring sports in 2021 as well.

So Paul, who I don't really care for, is probably right about this. College athletics is a dog eat dog war in the trenches of recruiting and if star players want to enter the NFL draft and they have a year or two of eligibility left it will be open season on them.

What will be interesting to watch is what U.S.C., Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah decide to do. I could see those four moving to the Big 12 and revitalizing that conference if the crap show that is the PAC continues. If those 4 go and Stanford ever wanted to head in that direction (which I consider much less likely than USC) it would be interesting to see if that lured Notre Dame as well.

It will be fascinating to watch.

I wonder about Colorado. It's a blue enough state that the leaders might eventually follow California's lead in cancelling on-campus classes. However, assuming that they want to re-open, it is close enough to the central areas (even if pretty far from the core of the Big Ten area) that the Big Ten might be tempted into offering them something to help out their schedule in the hopes that they'd join sometime later. Otherwise, the Big 12 might pounce on them.

USC and Stanford are another matter. Not only are they far from the Big Ten area but also the Big 12 area. Those two may end up going the independence route as there is no conference that makes better sense for them than the PAC 12. They should ask BYU and Liberty for more games.

The folks at Boulder are decidedly leftist although the state as a whole doesn't seem to trend quite that way.

I would gamble on them staying open. Now if we're talking about WA or OR then I might feel differently, but all of CO's border states are likely to be open. Their economics function a little differently even if CU happens to be in the PAC 12.

I tend to think the West Coast states will drag this out which, of course, affects 8 of the PAC's schools in some form or another. Could CU-Boulder end up playing a schedule comprised mostly of another conference? Is it possible the PAC 12 plays in the Spring? I don't know.

You should check out the CBS article from yesterday. They were the ones talking about the cloud hanging over the California system and the likelihood that no on campus classes would be had and that football may not be played. And the other system was the one suggesting that Spring is likely out as well for Spring sports and that football would not be back until Fall 2021. Finebaum's remarks were largely based on those announcements. Of course Paul likes to muckrake as well and times are very slow.

But if some schools in a conference want to play and others won't I think that opens up a lot of contractual issues including GOR's. I've never understood the legal basis for the taxpayers of a state being confined in their options because a state university signs a grant of rights. That's shaky legal ground when it comes to sovereignty issues and GOR's are fine for musical artists and anyone who can make an independent contract, but the one footing the bills for state universities are taxpayers and locking them in without options to relieve part of their financial obligation is a very key point in all of this which heretofore has not been seriously tested.

If Florida State for instance wants to play and Syracuse and B.C. do not it diminishes the value of F.S.U.'s product. If the ACC says you can't play, like the PAC may do, that inhibits the ability of a school to fulfill its contractual obligations, oversteps the bounds a conference has over a state school, and should they want to perform and other conference members not, it may constitute a breech of the GOR.

It's going to get really interesting
05-15-2020 03:55 PM
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Post: #10
RE: Is the PAC 12 in danger of a major collapse?
JRsec wrote:

"COVID19 is two viruses, one from the horseshoe bat and the other from the Pangolin which have been bound together. The viruses themselves are natural. Researchers who know what they are doing say there is no explanation for how the bond was formed and it doesn't appear to be natural."

Good you made that comment. I've read something similar. If it's not bound naturally, then it was done in a lab and escaped accidently or released deliberately? If the later, then it is biological warfare somewhere on a spectrum.

I've heard the lab theory both promoted and dismissed. In recent weeks, professional dialogue for public consumption on this angle, appear subdued and one can speculate why. China is quite guarded about releasing further information regarding the origin of the virus.
They'll acknowledge the wet market in Wuhan and the ties to bats, but beyond that, it seems shrouded in secrecy. As expected, and perhaps correctly, China dismissed the Wuhan lab as the cause. Whether that's uncertainty, fear of assuming responsibility, embarrassment, or something much more sinister, is rather unclear.
----------------------

On fall football, it may be the twilight zone. Maybe doing conference fb for the season is not the approach. Perhaps schools in a state enter an agreement with fbs/fcs schools in a neighboring state(s).

This is hypothetical of course. Suppose the State's of NC, SC, and GA agree; 13 fbs schools. Each plays the other 12.

UNC, NCSU, Wake Forest, Duke, Appalachian St., ECU, So. Carolina, Clemson, Coastal Carolina, GT, Georgia, GA State, and GA Southern.

OK, Georgia or Clemson dominates this, but that's not the point. There's no championship. It's a scheduling apparatus that's low cost team travel, very regional, and empty stadiums with big names may matter less. Potential cancellations will be less complex. Securing TV coverage is the catcher, but some network(s) may bite on it.

Alabama, Mississippi, & Tennessee?

Ala., Auburn, UAB, Troy, So. Ala., Miss. St., Ole MIss., USM, UT, Vandy, MTSU, Memphis & (Tenn.-Martin?).

Florida & Louisiana?

UF, FSU, Miami, USF, UCF, FAU, FIU, LSU, Tulane, La Tech., LA-L, LA-Monroe & (McNeese St.?)

Weird thoughts for unconventional times, I suppose.
(This post was last modified: 05-15-2020 07:59 PM by OdinFrigg.)
05-15-2020 07:47 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Is the PAC 12 in danger of a major collapse?
(05-15-2020 07:47 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  JRsec wrote:

"COVID19 is two viruses, one from the horseshoe bat and the other from the Pangolin which have been bound together. The viruses themselves are natural. Researchers who know what they are doing say there is no explanation for how the bond was formed and it doesn't appear to be natural."

Good you made that comment. I've read something similar. If it's not bound naturally, then it was done in a lab and escaped accidently or released deliberately? If the later, then it is biological warfare somewhere on a spectrum.

I've heard the lab theory both promoted and dismissed. In recent weeks, professional dialogue for public consumption on this angle, appear subdued and one can speculate why. China is quite guarded about releasing further information regarding the origin of the virus.
They'll acknowledge the wet market in Wuhan and the ties to bats, but beyond that, it seems shrouded in secrecy. As expected, and perhaps correctly, China dismissed the Wuhan lab as the cause. Whether that's uncertainty, fear of assuming responsibility, embarrassment, or something much more sinister, is rather unclear.
----------------------

On fall football, it may be the twilight zone. Maybe doing conference fb for the season is not the approach. Perhaps schools in a state enter an agreement with fbs/fcs schools in a neighboring state(s).

This is hypothetical of course. Suppose the State's of NC, SC, and GA agree; 13 fbs schools. Each plays the other 12.

UNC, NCSU, Wake Forest, Duke, Appalachian St., ECU, So. Carolina, Clemson, Coastal Carolina, GT, Georgia, GA State, and GA Southern.

OK, Georgia or Clemson dominates this, but that's not the point. There's no championship. It's a scheduling apparatus that's low cost team travel, very regional, and empty stadiums with big names may matter less. Potential cancellations will be less complex. Securing TV coverage is the catcher, but some network(s) may bite on it.

Alabama, Mississippi, & Tennessee?

Ala., Auburn, UAB, Troy, So. Ala., Miss. St., Ole MIss., USM, UT, Vandy, MTSU, Memphis & (Tenn.-Martin?).

Florida & Louisiana?

UF, FSU, Miami, USF, UCF, FAU, FIU, LSU, Tulane, La Tech., LA-L, LA-Monroe & (McNeese St.?)

Weird thoughts for unconventional times, I suppose.

As far as I'm concerned their delay in warning others (nearly 30 days) is the proof it was intentional. They had to make certain of its global spread via flights from one of their major foreign industrial complexes to all of the major cities in Europe and the U.S.. The Chicoms are guilty as sin. The issue is until other governments can theorize the best possible retaliation they won't admit for certain it was the attack they all know it to be.

As to your football plan, I can see the SEC incorporating games with some of those schools, but if all of the SEC schools are going to play then we fulfill our contractual obligations and get the promised rate of payout. If another conference doesn't fulfill theirs it could open for the participating schools the question of diminished value due to the failure of some league members to honor contractual obligations thereby nullifying the GOR. This will likely be backed by the courts since one state's decisions should not encumber the decisions of another sovereign state. This issue has always been the Achilles heel of the GOR but until now no reasonable circumstance had arisen to foster the environment that would lead to this kind of breach.

And for the record, I didn't read about the viruses bonding issues. I heard it a month ago from someone inside Big Pharma whose a medical officer.
(This post was last modified: 05-15-2020 10:27 PM by JRsec.)
05-15-2020 10:19 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Is the PAC 12 in danger of a major collapse?
(05-15-2020 03:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-15-2020 03:25 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(05-14-2020 10:58 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  
(05-14-2020 06:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-14-2020 05:33 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  Thanks for sharing, ATU.

Exploiting the "free agent" factor during a pandemic will not look good and is a rather disgusting tactic. The PAC12 wants to play football in the fall as does other conferences, major and minor. Feinbaum waits till the last sentence to mention "health and safety", then noting
It will be a shame if those games don't take place. That sounds disingenuous. He can't be so sure elsewhere in the country will be rosy for football in a few months either. We can all hope for the better, and try to be optimistic that each locale makes wise decisions going forward during this worrisome time period.

The PAC12 has some problems they need to fix. Three or four of their traditional powers have underperformed too frequently in recent years. There are troubles with TV carriage, revenue enhancements, fan enthusiasm, demographic impact, conference leadership, and with some administrators and coaching at individual schools. They can repair much of it at some point. Feinbaum sounds as if the PAC12 is doomed. I don't buy that messaging.

I guess you missed the Chancellor of Higher Educations ruling this morning within the State of California. All of California's State Institutions of higher learning will be closed this Fall and will remain closed until Fall of 2021. They will have online education and special fields of study like Nursing and Medicine will continue but with classes being taught at multiple times with small well spaced classes.

But there won't be any football at California and U.C.L.A., San Diego State, etc. So what the privates like Stanford and U.S.C. choose to do will be interesting to say the least.

I can promise you that if they don't play and the other conferences do there will be some major fallout for PAC athletics from that decision. Remember we are talking about wiping out Spring sports in 2021 as well.

So Paul, who I don't really care for, is probably right about this. College athletics is a dog eat dog war in the trenches of recruiting and if star players want to enter the NFL draft and they have a year or two of eligibility left it will be open season on them.

What will be interesting to watch is what U.S.C., Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah decide to do. I could see those four moving to the Big 12 and revitalizing that conference if the crap show that is the PAC continues. If those 4 go and Stanford ever wanted to head in that direction (which I consider much less likely than USC) it would be interesting to see if that lured Notre Dame as well.

It will be fascinating to watch.

I wonder about Colorado. It's a blue enough state that the leaders might eventually follow California's lead in cancelling on-campus classes. However, assuming that they want to re-open, it is close enough to the central areas (even if pretty far from the core of the Big Ten area) that the Big Ten might be tempted into offering them something to help out their schedule in the hopes that they'd join sometime later. Otherwise, the Big 12 might pounce on them.

USC and Stanford are another matter. Not only are they far from the Big Ten area but also the Big 12 area. Those two may end up going the independence route as there is no conference that makes better sense for them than the PAC 12. They should ask BYU and Liberty for more games.

The folks at Boulder are decidedly leftist although the state as a whole doesn't seem to trend quite that way.

I would gamble on them staying open. Now if we're talking about WA or OR then I might feel differently, but all of CO's border states are likely to be open. Their economics function a little differently even if CU happens to be in the PAC 12.

I tend to think the West Coast states will drag this out which, of course, affects 8 of the PAC's schools in some form or another. Could CU-Boulder end up playing a schedule comprised mostly of another conference? Is it possible the PAC 12 plays in the Spring? I don't know.

You should check out the CBS article from yesterday. They were the ones talking about the cloud hanging over the California system and the likelihood that no on campus classes would be had and that football may not be played. And the other system was the one suggesting that Spring is likely out as well for Spring sports and that football would not be back until Fall 2021. Finebaum's remarks were largely based on those announcements. Of course Paul likes to muckrake as well and times are very slow.

But if some schools in a conference want to play and others won't I think that opens up a lot of contractual issues including GOR's. I've never understood the legal basis for the taxpayers of a state being confined in their options because a state university signs a grant of rights. That's shaky legal ground when it comes to sovereignty issues and GOR's are fine for musical artists and anyone who can make an independent contract, but the one footing the bills for state universities are taxpayers and locking them in without options to relieve part of their financial obligation is a very key point in all of this which heretofore has not been seriously tested.

If Florida State for instance wants to play and Syracuse and B.C. do not it diminishes the value of F.S.U.'s product. If the ACC says you can't play, like the PAC may do, that inhibits the ability of a school to fulfill its contractual obligations, oversteps the bounds a conference has over a state school, and should they want to perform and other conference members not, it may constitute a breech of the GOR.

It's going to get really interesting

I don't doubt they'll end up making the same decision, but there's more at stake for the PAC 12 than the Mountain West or other smaller leagues. So I imagine you've got powerful voices within the league working on arriving at a different result.

There was an interesting report recently that indicated PAC 12 ADs are having conversations to themselves that might not be on the same page with what the conference itself wants. Joel Klatt seemed to indicate that.

Who knows what comes of that, but I agree the PAC 12 is going to have some issues. It's just that the UC System hasn't made the call yet. Their authority is separate from the Cal State system.
05-16-2020 11:27 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Is the PAC 12 in danger of a major collapse?
(05-15-2020 10:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-15-2020 07:47 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  JRsec wrote:

"COVID19 is two viruses, one from the horseshoe bat and the other from the Pangolin which have been bound together. The viruses themselves are natural. Researchers who know what they are doing say there is no explanation for how the bond was formed and it doesn't appear to be natural."

Good you made that comment. I've read something similar. If it's not bound naturally, then it was done in a lab and escaped accidently or released deliberately? If the later, then it is biological warfare somewhere on a spectrum.

I've heard the lab theory both promoted and dismissed. In recent weeks, professional dialogue for public consumption on this angle, appear subdued and one can speculate why. China is quite guarded about releasing further information regarding the origin of the virus.
They'll acknowledge the wet market in Wuhan and the ties to bats, but beyond that, it seems shrouded in secrecy. As expected, and perhaps correctly, China dismissed the Wuhan lab as the cause. Whether that's uncertainty, fear of assuming responsibility, embarrassment, or something much more sinister, is rather unclear.
----------------------

On fall football, it may be the twilight zone. Maybe doing conference fb for the season is not the approach. Perhaps schools in a state enter an agreement with fbs/fcs schools in a neighboring state(s).

This is hypothetical of course. Suppose the State's of NC, SC, and GA agree; 13 fbs schools. Each plays the other 12.

UNC, NCSU, Wake Forest, Duke, Appalachian St., ECU, So. Carolina, Clemson, Coastal Carolina, GT, Georgia, GA State, and GA Southern.

OK, Georgia or Clemson dominates this, but that's not the point. There's no championship. It's a scheduling apparatus that's low cost team travel, very regional, and empty stadiums with big names may matter less. Potential cancellations will be less complex. Securing TV coverage is the catcher, but some network(s) may bite on it.

Alabama, Mississippi, & Tennessee?

Ala., Auburn, UAB, Troy, So. Ala., Miss. St., Ole MIss., USM, UT, Vandy, MTSU, Memphis & (Tenn.-Martin?).

Florida & Louisiana?

UF, FSU, Miami, USF, UCF, FAU, FIU, LSU, Tulane, La Tech., LA-L, LA-Monroe & (McNeese St.?)

Weird thoughts for unconventional times, I suppose.

As far as I'm concerned their delay in warning others (nearly 30 days) is the proof it was intentional. They had to make certain of its global spread via flights from one of their major foreign industrial complexes to all of the major cities in Europe and the U.S.. The Chicoms are guilty as sin. The issue is until other governments can theorize the best possible retaliation they won't admit for certain it was the attack they all know it to be.

As to your football plan, I can see the SEC incorporating games with some of those schools, but if all of the SEC schools are going to play then we fulfill our contractual obligations and get the promised rate of payout. If another conference doesn't fulfill theirs it could open for the participating schools the question of diminished value due to the failure of some league members to honor contractual obligations thereby nullifying the GOR. This will likely be backed by the courts since one state's decisions should not encumber the decisions of another sovereign state. This issue has always been the Achilles heel of the GOR but until now no reasonable circumstance had arisen to foster the environment that would lead to this kind of breach.

And for the record, I didn't read about the viruses bonding issues. I heard it a month ago from someone inside Big Pharma whose a medical officer.

The South China Morning Post(a Hong Kong outlet) had evidence that China knew about cases in mid November. I'm both surprised and unsurprised that story hasn't gotten more play.

Anyway, it's obvious China is lying about the whole thing so I have no problem believing it was an attack of some sort although it would appear perhaps to have been intended to cause economic upheaval as opposed to death on a massive scale. The latter would have been a poor play with regard to achieving their end game. The first is easier to hide for one thing.

But anyway, I would agree the foundation for GOR agreements with regard to public institutions is shaky...especially when that contract extends across state lines.
05-16-2020 11:37 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Is the PAC 12 in danger of a major collapse?
(05-16-2020 11:37 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(05-15-2020 10:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-15-2020 07:47 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  JRsec wrote:

"COVID19 is two viruses, one from the horseshoe bat and the other from the Pangolin which have been bound together. The viruses themselves are natural. Researchers who know what they are doing say there is no explanation for how the bond was formed and it doesn't appear to be natural."

Good you made that comment. I've read something similar. If it's not bound naturally, then it was done in a lab and escaped accidently or released deliberately? If the later, then it is biological warfare somewhere on a spectrum.

I've heard the lab theory both promoted and dismissed. In recent weeks, professional dialogue for public consumption on this angle, appear subdued and one can speculate why. China is quite guarded about releasing further information regarding the origin of the virus.
They'll acknowledge the wet market in Wuhan and the ties to bats, but beyond that, it seems shrouded in secrecy. As expected, and perhaps correctly, China dismissed the Wuhan lab as the cause. Whether that's uncertainty, fear of assuming responsibility, embarrassment, or something much more sinister, is rather unclear.
----------------------

On fall football, it may be the twilight zone. Maybe doing conference fb for the season is not the approach. Perhaps schools in a state enter an agreement with fbs/fcs schools in a neighboring state(s).

This is hypothetical of course. Suppose the State's of NC, SC, and GA agree; 13 fbs schools. Each plays the other 12.

UNC, NCSU, Wake Forest, Duke, Appalachian St., ECU, So. Carolina, Clemson, Coastal Carolina, GT, Georgia, GA State, and GA Southern.

OK, Georgia or Clemson dominates this, but that's not the point. There's no championship. It's a scheduling apparatus that's low cost team travel, very regional, and empty stadiums with big names may matter less. Potential cancellations will be less complex. Securing TV coverage is the catcher, but some network(s) may bite on it.

Alabama, Mississippi, & Tennessee?

Ala., Auburn, UAB, Troy, So. Ala., Miss. St., Ole MIss., USM, UT, Vandy, MTSU, Memphis & (Tenn.-Martin?).

Florida & Louisiana?

UF, FSU, Miami, USF, UCF, FAU, FIU, LSU, Tulane, La Tech., LA-L, LA-Monroe & (McNeese St.?)

Weird thoughts for unconventional times, I suppose.

As far as I'm concerned their delay in warning others (nearly 30 days) is the proof it was intentional. They had to make certain of its global spread via flights from one of their major foreign industrial complexes to all of the major cities in Europe and the U.S.. The Chicoms are guilty as sin. The issue is until other governments can theorize the best possible retaliation they won't admit for certain it was the attack they all know it to be.

As to your football plan, I can see the SEC incorporating games with some of those schools, but if all of the SEC schools are going to play then we fulfill our contractual obligations and get the promised rate of payout. If another conference doesn't fulfill theirs it could open for the participating schools the question of diminished value due to the failure of some league members to honor contractual obligations thereby nullifying the GOR. This will likely be backed by the courts since one state's decisions should not encumber the decisions of another sovereign state. This issue has always been the Achilles heel of the GOR but until now no reasonable circumstance had arisen to foster the environment that would lead to this kind of breach.

And for the record, I didn't read about the viruses bonding issues. I heard it a month ago from someone inside Big Pharma whose a medical officer.

The South China Morning Post(a Hong Kong outlet) had evidence that China knew about cases in mid November. I'm both surprised and unsurprised that story hasn't gotten more play.

Anyway, it's obvious China is lying about the whole thing so I have no problem believing it was an attack of some sort although it would appear perhaps to have been intended to cause economic upheaval as opposed to death on a massive scale. The latter would have been a poor play with regard to achieving their end game. The first is easier to hide for one thing.

But anyway, I would agree the foundation for GOR agreements with regard to public institutions is shaky...especially when that contract extends across state lines.

China was hoping the deaths on their home soil would give them cover. They are just that cold as to see the loss of their own as necessary for their agenda and an acceptable sacrifice.

As to GOR's the SEC has the strongest position, none among ourselves, although I believe ESPN wanted one, but therein is the difference. We don't hold each other hostage. ESPN just wants the gang together for the duration of their contract.

Odd it is that a virus might right the final chapter in NCAA football realignment. Should schools seek more natural and closer rivals it might actually correct the mistakes of the market football driven additions.
05-16-2020 12:44 PM
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OdinFrigg Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Is the PAC 12 in danger of a major collapse?
Perspectives from 3 PAC12 coaches:

https://www.deseret.com/sports/2020/5/14...-cristobal
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2020 09:14 AM by OdinFrigg.)
05-16-2020 05:06 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Is the PAC 12 in danger of a major collapse?
(05-16-2020 12:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 11:37 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(05-15-2020 10:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-15-2020 07:47 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  JRsec wrote:

"COVID19 is two viruses, one from the horseshoe bat and the other from the Pangolin which have been bound together. The viruses themselves are natural. Researchers who know what they are doing say there is no explanation for how the bond was formed and it doesn't appear to be natural."

Good you made that comment. I've read something similar. If it's not bound naturally, then it was done in a lab and escaped accidently or released deliberately? If the later, then it is biological warfare somewhere on a spectrum.

I've heard the lab theory both promoted and dismissed. In recent weeks, professional dialogue for public consumption on this angle, appear subdued and one can speculate why. China is quite guarded about releasing further information regarding the origin of the virus.
They'll acknowledge the wet market in Wuhan and the ties to bats, but beyond that, it seems shrouded in secrecy. As expected, and perhaps correctly, China dismissed the Wuhan lab as the cause. Whether that's uncertainty, fear of assuming responsibility, embarrassment, or something much more sinister, is rather unclear.
----------------------

On fall football, it may be the twilight zone. Maybe doing conference fb for the season is not the approach. Perhaps schools in a state enter an agreement with fbs/fcs schools in a neighboring state(s).

This is hypothetical of course. Suppose the State's of NC, SC, and GA agree; 13 fbs schools. Each plays the other 12.

UNC, NCSU, Wake Forest, Duke, Appalachian St., ECU, So. Carolina, Clemson, Coastal Carolina, GT, Georgia, GA State, and GA Southern.

OK, Georgia or Clemson dominates this, but that's not the point. There's no championship. It's a scheduling apparatus that's low cost team travel, very regional, and empty stadiums with big names may matter less. Potential cancellations will be less complex. Securing TV coverage is the catcher, but some network(s) may bite on it.

Alabama, Mississippi, & Tennessee?

Ala., Auburn, UAB, Troy, So. Ala., Miss. St., Ole MIss., USM, UT, Vandy, MTSU, Memphis & (Tenn.-Martin?).

Florida & Louisiana?

UF, FSU, Miami, USF, UCF, FAU, FIU, LSU, Tulane, La Tech., LA-L, LA-Monroe & (McNeese St.?)

Weird thoughts for unconventional times, I suppose.

As far as I'm concerned their delay in warning others (nearly 30 days) is the proof it was intentional. They had to make certain of its global spread via flights from one of their major foreign industrial complexes to all of the major cities in Europe and the U.S.. The Chicoms are guilty as sin. The issue is until other governments can theorize the best possible retaliation they won't admit for certain it was the attack they all know it to be.

As to your football plan, I can see the SEC incorporating games with some of those schools, but if all of the SEC schools are going to play then we fulfill our contractual obligations and get the promised rate of payout. If another conference doesn't fulfill theirs it could open for the participating schools the question of diminished value due to the failure of some league members to honor contractual obligations thereby nullifying the GOR. This will likely be backed by the courts since one state's decisions should not encumber the decisions of another sovereign state. This issue has always been the Achilles heel of the GOR but until now no reasonable circumstance had arisen to foster the environment that would lead to this kind of breach.

And for the record, I didn't read about the viruses bonding issues. I heard it a month ago from someone inside Big Pharma whose a medical officer.

The South China Morning Post(a Hong Kong outlet) had evidence that China knew about cases in mid November. I'm both surprised and unsurprised that story hasn't gotten more play.

Anyway, it's obvious China is lying about the whole thing so I have no problem believing it was an attack of some sort although it would appear perhaps to have been intended to cause economic upheaval as opposed to death on a massive scale. The latter would have been a poor play with regard to achieving their end game. The first is easier to hide for one thing.

But anyway, I would agree the foundation for GOR agreements with regard to public institutions is shaky...especially when that contract extends across state lines.

China was hoping the deaths on their home soil would give them cover. They are just that cold as to see the loss of their own as necessary for their agenda and an acceptable sacrifice.

As to GOR's the SEC has the strongest position, none among ourselves, although I believe ESPN wanted one, but therein is the difference. We don't hold each other hostage. ESPN just wants the gang together for the duration of their contract.

Odd it is that a virus might right the final chapter in NCAA football realignment. Should schools seek more natural and closer rivals it might actually correct the mistakes of the market football driven additions.

Speaking of world events altering the course of college sports history, that makes me think of what World War II did.

Some commentators look at that period as a delineating event with regard to the type and scope of competition. We may be looking at another one.

While the PAC seems to be in imminent danger of their pay model falling apart, it also begs the question of the same thing happening in the ACC. Of course with the ACC, it would be far easier for a league or multiple leagues to pick them apart.
05-16-2020 08:22 PM
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Post: #17
Is the PAC 12 in danger of a major collapse?
The PAC is Done .....


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05-16-2020 08:33 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Is the PAC 12 in danger of a major collapse?
(05-16-2020 08:22 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 12:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 11:37 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(05-15-2020 10:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-15-2020 07:47 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  JRsec wrote:

"COVID19 is two viruses, one from the horseshoe bat and the other from the Pangolin which have been bound together. The viruses themselves are natural. Researchers who know what they are doing say there is no explanation for how the bond was formed and it doesn't appear to be natural."

Good you made that comment. I've read something similar. If it's not bound naturally, then it was done in a lab and escaped accidently or released deliberately? If the later, then it is biological warfare somewhere on a spectrum.

I've heard the lab theory both promoted and dismissed. In recent weeks, professional dialogue for public consumption on this angle, appear subdued and one can speculate why. China is quite guarded about releasing further information regarding the origin of the virus.
They'll acknowledge the wet market in Wuhan and the ties to bats, but beyond that, it seems shrouded in secrecy. As expected, and perhaps correctly, China dismissed the Wuhan lab as the cause. Whether that's uncertainty, fear of assuming responsibility, embarrassment, or something much more sinister, is rather unclear.
----------------------

On fall football, it may be the twilight zone. Maybe doing conference fb for the season is not the approach. Perhaps schools in a state enter an agreement with fbs/fcs schools in a neighboring state(s).

This is hypothetical of course. Suppose the State's of NC, SC, and GA agree; 13 fbs schools. Each plays the other 12.

UNC, NCSU, Wake Forest, Duke, Appalachian St., ECU, So. Carolina, Clemson, Coastal Carolina, GT, Georgia, GA State, and GA Southern.

OK, Georgia or Clemson dominates this, but that's not the point. There's no championship. It's a scheduling apparatus that's low cost team travel, very regional, and empty stadiums with big names may matter less. Potential cancellations will be less complex. Securing TV coverage is the catcher, but some network(s) may bite on it.

Alabama, Mississippi, & Tennessee?

Ala., Auburn, UAB, Troy, So. Ala., Miss. St., Ole MIss., USM, UT, Vandy, MTSU, Memphis & (Tenn.-Martin?).

Florida & Louisiana?

UF, FSU, Miami, USF, UCF, FAU, FIU, LSU, Tulane, La Tech., LA-L, LA-Monroe & (McNeese St.?)

Weird thoughts for unconventional times, I suppose.

As far as I'm concerned their delay in warning others (nearly 30 days) is the proof it was intentional. They had to make certain of its global spread via flights from one of their major foreign industrial complexes to all of the major cities in Europe and the U.S.. The Chicoms are guilty as sin. The issue is until other governments can theorize the best possible retaliation they won't admit for certain it was the attack they all know it to be.

As to your football plan, I can see the SEC incorporating games with some of those schools, but if all of the SEC schools are going to play then we fulfill our contractual obligations and get the promised rate of payout. If another conference doesn't fulfill theirs it could open for the participating schools the question of diminished value due to the failure of some league members to honor contractual obligations thereby nullifying the GOR. This will likely be backed by the courts since one state's decisions should not encumber the decisions of another sovereign state. This issue has always been the Achilles heel of the GOR but until now no reasonable circumstance had arisen to foster the environment that would lead to this kind of breach.

And for the record, I didn't read about the viruses bonding issues. I heard it a month ago from someone inside Big Pharma whose a medical officer.

The South China Morning Post(a Hong Kong outlet) had evidence that China knew about cases in mid November. I'm both surprised and unsurprised that story hasn't gotten more play.

Anyway, it's obvious China is lying about the whole thing so I have no problem believing it was an attack of some sort although it would appear perhaps to have been intended to cause economic upheaval as opposed to death on a massive scale. The latter would have been a poor play with regard to achieving their end game. The first is easier to hide for one thing.

But anyway, I would agree the foundation for GOR agreements with regard to public institutions is shaky...especially when that contract extends across state lines.

China was hoping the deaths on their home soil would give them cover. They are just that cold as to see the loss of their own as necessary for their agenda and an acceptable sacrifice.

As to GOR's the SEC has the strongest position, none among ourselves, although I believe ESPN wanted one, but therein is the difference. We don't hold each other hostage. ESPN just wants the gang together for the duration of their contract.

Odd it is that a virus might right the final chapter in NCAA football realignment. Should schools seek more natural and closer rivals it might actually correct the mistakes of the market football driven additions.

Speaking of world events altering the course of college sports history, that makes me think of what World War II did.

Some commentators look at that period as a delineating event with regard to the type and scope of competition. We may be looking at another one.

While the PAC seems to be in imminent danger of their pay model falling apart, it also begs the question of the same thing happening in the ACC. Of course with the ACC, it would be far easier for a league or multiple leagues to pick them apart.

I think it will be a seminal event for the future of college sports, but it's still unfolding and some of the worst in economic impact is yet to come. The FBI made a series of arrests, one at Emory, this week that involve naturalized Chinese professors still working for Communist China and collecting unreported revenue from them to spy in sensitive research areas. Coming to light are also some Wall Street banks that, like they did in 2006-8 were investing our money in Chinese front companies many of which were actually funding Chinese military projects that were detrimental to the U.S..

This is the kind of crap that H.W.Bush, the Clintons, Obamas and W. Bushes were involved in supporting wittingly or unwittingly and the Deep State is comprised of those people on both sides of the aisle with funding from Gates, Buffet, and Soros to keep the trade open and not to challenge China on these front corporations.

The Washington Post had an article this week about how one American Investment firm which handles pensions had 70% of their investment for those pensions invested in such Chinese front companies which have zero transparency or responsibility to shareholders. We are expecting as more and more about China's penetration into sensitive areas of our country, including investment banking, that up to as many as 1 million Americans could lose their pensions and another shock to some banks could occur. I'm wondering now if the derivatives of the 2006-8 crisis were created to help cover these specious kinds of investments.

I've known since the early 90's that China's plan for attacking the U.S. was to first try to tank our economy. Well here we are.

Now as to college sports, I think that those most committed to football are about to shrink and drastically. Can you imagine what the loss of pensions and another banking crisis will do to donations? donations for tickets (which will sag because of virus exposure issues)? and the ability of schools that popped up since the '50's to sustain expensive programs? It will be the perfect milieu for networks to orchestrate the best against the best weekly and pay to get it, and for the schools to respond in needing to take it.

It has been estimated that a top 48 school league would earn between 110 to 120 million per school for TV rights alone.

I think that each existing conference will suffer some losses of schools who can't afford to compete at this level. From there the formation of a unit of 48 or so schools could be easily accomplished.
05-16-2020 08:47 PM
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OdinFrigg Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Is the PAC 12 in danger of a major collapse?
Where each PAC12 school currently stands on reopening classes for the fall, 2020:

https://247sports.com/college/washington...147221919/

Therein, is a link that tracts 560 schools nationwide on their reopening policies. Of course, policies are subject to change and become updated. The Chronicle of Higher Education is the source.
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2020 09:38 AM by OdinFrigg.)
05-17-2020 09:34 AM
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Soobahk40050 Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Is the PAC 12 in danger of a major collapse?
(05-16-2020 08:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 08:22 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 12:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 11:37 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(05-15-2020 10:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  As far as I'm concerned their delay in warning others (nearly 30 days) is the proof it was intentional. They had to make certain of its global spread via flights from one of their major foreign industrial complexes to all of the major cities in Europe and the U.S.. The Chicoms are guilty as sin. The issue is until other governments can theorize the best possible retaliation they won't admit for certain it was the attack they all know it to be.

As to your football plan, I can see the SEC incorporating games with some of those schools, but if all of the SEC schools are going to play then we fulfill our contractual obligations and get the promised rate of payout. If another conference doesn't fulfill theirs it could open for the participating schools the question of diminished value due to the failure of some league members to honor contractual obligations thereby nullifying the GOR. This will likely be backed by the courts since one state's decisions should not encumber the decisions of another sovereign state. This issue has always been the Achilles heel of the GOR but until now no reasonable circumstance had arisen to foster the environment that would lead to this kind of breach.

And for the record, I didn't read about the viruses bonding issues. I heard it a month ago from someone inside Big Pharma whose a medical officer.

The South China Morning Post(a Hong Kong outlet) had evidence that China knew about cases in mid November. I'm both surprised and unsurprised that story hasn't gotten more play.

Anyway, it's obvious China is lying about the whole thing so I have no problem believing it was an attack of some sort although it would appear perhaps to have been intended to cause economic upheaval as opposed to death on a massive scale. The latter would have been a poor play with regard to achieving their end game. The first is easier to hide for one thing.

But anyway, I would agree the foundation for GOR agreements with regard to public institutions is shaky...especially when that contract extends across state lines.

China was hoping the deaths on their home soil would give them cover. They are just that cold as to see the loss of their own as necessary for their agenda and an acceptable sacrifice.

As to GOR's the SEC has the strongest position, none among ourselves, although I believe ESPN wanted one, but therein is the difference. We don't hold each other hostage. ESPN just wants the gang together for the duration of their contract.

Odd it is that a virus might right the final chapter in NCAA football realignment. Should schools seek more natural and closer rivals it might actually correct the mistakes of the market football driven additions.

Speaking of world events altering the course of college sports history, that makes me think of what World War II did.

Some commentators look at that period as a delineating event with regard to the type and scope of competition. We may be looking at another one.

While the PAC seems to be in imminent danger of their pay model falling apart, it also begs the question of the same thing happening in the ACC. Of course with the ACC, it would be far easier for a league or multiple leagues to pick them apart.

I think it will be a seminal event for the future of college sports, but it's still unfolding and some of the worst in economic impact is yet to come. The FBI made a series of arrests, one at Emory, this week that involve naturalized Chinese professors still working for Communist China and collecting unreported revenue from them to spy in sensitive research areas. Coming to light are also some Wall Street banks that, like they did in 2006-8 were investing our money in Chinese front companies many of which were actually funding Chinese military projects that were detrimental to the U.S..

This is the kind of crap that H.W.Bush, the Clintons, Obamas and W. Bushes were involved in supporting wittingly or unwittingly and the Deep State is comprised of those people on both sides of the aisle with funding from Gates, Buffet, and Soros to keep the trade open and not to challenge China on these front corporations.

The Washington Post had an article this week about how one American Investment firm which handles pensions had 70% of their investment for those pensions invested in such Chinese front companies which have zero transparency or responsibility to shareholders. We are expecting as more and more about China's penetration into sensitive areas of our country, including investment banking, that up to as many as 1 million Americans could lose their pensions and another shock to some banks could occur. I'm wondering now if the derivatives of the 2006-8 crisis were created to help cover these specious kinds of investments.

I've known since the early 90's that China's plan for attacking the U.S. was to first try to tank our economy. Well here we are.

Now as to college sports, I think that those most committed to football are about to shrink and drastically. Can you imagine what the loss of pensions and another banking crisis will do to donations? donations for tickets (which will sag because of virus exposure issues)? and the ability of schools that popped up since the '50's to sustain expensive programs? It will be the perfect milieu for networks to orchestrate the best against the best weekly and pay to get it, and for the schools to respond in needing to take it.

It has been estimated that a top 48 school league would earn between 110 to 120 million per school for TV rights alone.

I think that each existing conference will suffer some losses of schools who can't afford to compete at this level. From there the formation of a unit of 48 or so schools could be easily accomplished.

I live near KC and the sporting culture is fantastic. But even though many of friends are big college football fans, I doubt any of them are donating to a school, and if they are, my guess is they donate to the academic side or support scholarships, etc.

The point being that the generational shift was going to hurt lots of colleges anyway. I feel passionate about my alma mater (a tiny school in TN, not even NAIA), and I haven't even been able to donate to them.

Schools that rely on big boosters, etc. have to be sure that the boostings stay put in the next generation. With the looming financial crisis coming (again) I wonder what happens there; my guess is some of the smaller schools turn more and more to online teaching, and only the biggest schools even keep football.
05-18-2020 04:03 PM
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