(05-13-2020 04:31 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-13-2020 03:56 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-12-2020 01:26 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Maybe the ACC would be better off if Duke and WF stopped fielding teams

I'm sure if those two asked to be non-football members (at reduced share, of course), the rest of the schools would fight over the pens to sign it into the by-laws!

This is where my 18 school model needs to meet XLance's Magnolia League:

SEC:
Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee

Big 10:
Indiana, Maryland, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Purdue, Rutgers
Illinois, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Ohio State, Wisconsin
Colorado, Iowa, Iowa State, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska

Big West:
California, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State
Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal, Brigham Young, Utah
Arkansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech

Magnolia:
Boston College, Duke, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Syracuse, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest
Baylor, Miami, Rice, S.M.U., T.C.U., Tulane, Tulsa

*Note: In the interest of numbers for the Big West and considering the size of the privates and the distance to the East Coast Privates, I left the West Coast privates in the Big West.

I'll have to admit that when I started reading this post, I thought it would be just another one of JR's wild scenarios bent on breaking up the ACC, but this is actually quite good. He even placed Pitt in the proper league.
I would have to insist on an 8 game conference schedule (5/3/0) so that my school wouldn't ever have to engage with "those schools" on line #3. Also the conference would have to be re-named.....maybe we could buy back the Southern Conference name.
I also like the placement of Texas/Oklahoma in the west, where they belong, following the division placements of MLB.
Good work JR, save this one, it has merit.

So each conference has 3 divisions of 6 teams?

(05-16-2020 07:12 AM)XLance Wrote:  Are you suggesting that Clemson is a second rate University like Alabama is?
Granted, Clemson is not Carolina or UVa, but they are an anomaly in academic standings.
Clemson is the second state school in South Carolina, like NC State is to Carolina. Clemson is small for a state STEM, about half the size of the Univ. of South Carolina, much harder to get in, but with much better academic status than the State flagship. Only in South Carolina.

I re-looked at the USN&WR rankings and was surprised at how high Clemson was (#70). They're way ahead of Alabama (#153). You would think the University of South Carolina would be the "first choice" school in the state but Clemson is the highest rated. You would think it's because of football but Alabama's not the highest rated public school in Alabama either.

I've posted in other boards that I don't get Southern culture where girls wear dresses to football games. I'm sure most non southern fans agree with me and I'll bet a lot of non SEC southern fans not from Clemson do as well.

The other issue is most of the states down south just have too small population. What's the biggest city in Alabama? Birmingham. Who cares about them? Biggest city in South Carolina? Is it Charleston or Columbia? Who cares? If Ohio State goes 7-5, they're still the clear #1 school in one of the ten most populous states in the country. If Clemson goes 7-5, they're sharing a less populous state with the University of South Carolina for relevance. South Carolina and Alabama have no pro sports of any kind. You can say that's an asset but Ohio has pro sports and it doesn't hurt OSU. Georgia has pro teams and it doesn't hurt UGa. Florida has pro teams and the Gators still compete. If you're in Alabama or South Carolina, you win or you're not relevant, especially when you have more than one top school in the state. If you want to be relevant nationally you have to win but if you can't win at least be relevant regionally. It kind of hurts you if your "region" isn't that big.

(05-16-2020 12:25 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(05-16-2020 07:12 AM)XLance Wrote:  Are you suggesting that Clemson is a second rate University like Alabama is?
Granted, Clemson is not Carolina or UVa, but they are an anomaly in academic standings.
Clemson is the second state school in South Carolina, like NC State is to Carolina. Clemson is small for a state STEM, about half the size of the Univ. of South Carolina, much harder to get in, but with much better academic status than the State flagship. Only in South Carolina.

I re-looked at the USN&WR rankings and was surprised at how high Clemson was (#70). They're way ahead of Alabama (#153). You would think the University of South Carolina would be the "first choice" school in the state but Clemson is the highest rated. You would think it's because of football but Alabama's not the highest rated public school in Alabama either.

I've posted in other boards that I don't get Southern culture where girls wear dresses to football games. I'm sure most non southern fans agree with me and I'll bet a lot of non SEC southern fans not from Clemson do as well.

The other issue is most of the states down south just have too small population. What's the biggest city in Alabama? Birmingham. Who cares about them? Biggest city in South Carolina? Is it Charleston or Columbia? Who cares? If Ohio State goes 7-5, they're still the clear #1 school in one of the ten most populous states in the country. If Clemson goes 7-5, they're sharing a less populous state with the University of South Carolina for relevance. South Carolina and Alabama have no pro sports of any kind. You can say that's an asset but Ohio has pro sports and it doesn't hurt OSU. Georgia has pro teams and it doesn't hurt UGa. Florida has pro teams and the Gators still compete. If you're in Alabama or South Carolina, you win or you're not relevant, especially when you have more than one top school in the state. If you want to be relevant nationally you have to win but if you can't win at least be relevant regionally. It kind of hurts you if your "region" isn't that big.

Another attempted troll post. Alabama, Georgia, and Florida were all the darlings of their states before 2 of them got a professional sports team and the pro teams have never made the inroads in the Southeast that they did in blue collar Northern Industrial towns 80 years ago.

People in the South root for the pro teams, but identify with their college ones. Alabama, L.S.U. and Texas A&M, and even Tennessee when they string together several good seasons will average 40 thousand more fans for the their games than the pro franchises and the tickets for the games all have prerequisite gift of at least $800 for the right to buy 2 books that cost $1100 more.

And for the record only sorority girls still wear dresses to the games and not that many of them do it unless it's homecoming. I don't know where you dig up your moronic stereotypes but they just reinforce the Southern stereotype of Northeastern Yankees.

Clemson, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, and from time to time Auburn win big because football is important, we have the best recruiting grounds in the nation in our own backyard, and we pay oodles to get good coaches. And to be precise, "It just means more!"

(05-16-2020 12:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-16-2020 12:25 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(05-16-2020 07:12 AM)XLance Wrote:  Are you suggesting that Clemson is a second rate University like Alabama is?
Granted, Clemson is not Carolina or UVa, but they are an anomaly in academic standings.
Clemson is the second state school in South Carolina, like NC State is to Carolina. Clemson is small for a state STEM, about half the size of the Univ. of South Carolina, much harder to get in, but with much better academic status than the State flagship. Only in South Carolina.

I re-looked at the USN&WR rankings and was surprised at how high Clemson was (#70). They're way ahead of Alabama (#153). You would think the University of South Carolina would be the "first choice" school in the state but Clemson is the highest rated. You would think it's because of football but Alabama's not the highest rated public school in Alabama either.

I've posted in other boards that I don't get Southern culture where girls wear dresses to football games. I'm sure most non southern fans agree with me and I'll bet a lot of non SEC southern fans not from Clemson do as well.

The other issue is most of the states down south just have too small population. What's the biggest city in Alabama? Birmingham. Who cares about them? Biggest city in South Carolina? Is it Charleston or Columbia? Who cares? If Ohio State goes 7-5, they're still the clear #1 school in one of the ten most populous states in the country. If Clemson goes 7-5, they're sharing a less populous state with the University of South Carolina for relevance. South Carolina and Alabama have no pro sports of any kind. You can say that's an asset but Ohio has pro sports and it doesn't hurt OSU. Georgia has pro teams and it doesn't hurt UGa. Florida has pro teams and the Gators still compete. If you're in Alabama or South Carolina, you win or you're not relevant, especially when you have more than one top school in the state. If you want to be relevant nationally you have to win but if you can't win at least be relevant regionally. It kind of hurts you if your "region" isn't that big.

Another attempted troll post. Alabama, Georgia, and Florida were all the darlings of their states before 2 of them got a professional sports team and the pro teams have never made the inroads in the Southeast that they did in blue collar Northern Industrial towns 80 years ago.

People in the South root for the pro teams, but identify with their college ones. Alabama, L.S.U. and Texas A&M, and even Tennessee when they string together several good seasons will average 40 thousand more fans for the their games than the pro franchises and the tickets for the games all have prerequisite gift of at least $800 for the right to buy 2 books that cost $1100 more.

And for the record only sorority girls still wear dresses to the games and not that many of them do it unless it's homecoming. I don't know where you dig up your moronic stereotypes but they just reinforce the Southern stereotype of Northeastern Yankees.

Clemson, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, and from time to time Auburn win big because football is important, we have the best recruiting grounds in the nation in our own backyard, and we pay oodles to get good coaches. And to be precise, "It just means more!"

lol.. Never understood the pom poms coming out for conference affiliation, but maybe that's a good thing . #HookEm

(05-16-2020 12:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-16-2020 12:25 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(05-16-2020 07:12 AM)XLance Wrote:  Are you suggesting that Clemson is a second rate University like Alabama is?
Granted, Clemson is not Carolina or UVa, but they are an anomaly in academic standings.
Clemson is the second state school in South Carolina, like NC State is to Carolina. Clemson is small for a state STEM, about half the size of the Univ. of South Carolina, much harder to get in, but with much better academic status than the State flagship. Only in South Carolina.

I re-looked at the USN&WR rankings and was surprised at how high Clemson was (#70). They're way ahead of Alabama (#153). You would think the University of South Carolina would be the "first choice" school in the state but Clemson is the highest rated. You would think it's because of football but Alabama's not the highest rated public school in Alabama either.

I've posted in other boards that I don't get Southern culture where girls wear dresses to football games. I'm sure most non southern fans agree with me and I'll bet a lot of non SEC southern fans not from Clemson do as well.

The other issue is most of the states down south just have too small population. What's the biggest city in Alabama? Birmingham. Who cares about them? Biggest city in South Carolina? Is it Charleston or Columbia? Who cares? If Ohio State goes 7-5, they're still the clear #1 school in one of the ten most populous states in the country. If Clemson goes 7-5, they're sharing a less populous state with the University of South Carolina for relevance. South Carolina and Alabama have no pro sports of any kind. You can say that's an asset but Ohio has pro sports and it doesn't hurt OSU. Georgia has pro teams and it doesn't hurt UGa. Florida has pro teams and the Gators still compete. If you're in Alabama or South Carolina, you win or you're not relevant, especially when you have more than one top school in the state. If you want to be relevant nationally you have to win but if you can't win at least be relevant regionally. It kind of hurts you if your "region" isn't that big.

Another attempted troll post. Alabama, Georgia, and Florida were all the darlings of their states before 2 of them got a professional sports team and the pro teams have never made the inroads in the Southeast that they did in blue collar Northern Industrial towns 80 years ago.

People in the South root for the pro teams, but identify with their college ones. Alabama, L.S.U. and Texas A&M, and even Tennessee when they string together several good seasons will average 40 thousand more fans for the their games than the pro franchises and the tickets for the games all have prerequisite gift of at least $800 for the right to buy 2 books that cost $1100 more.

And for the record only sorority girls still wear dresses to the games and not that many of them do it unless it's homecoming. I don't know where you dig up your moronic stereotypes but they just reinforce the Southern stereotype of Northeastern Yankees.

Clemson, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, and from time to time Auburn win big because football is important, we have the best recruiting grounds in the nation in our own backyard, and we pay oodles to get good coaches. And to be precise, "It just means more!"

In most SEC games I've watched, I can't recall very many women at all wearing dresses. Most seem to prefer shorts, capris, and flip flops. Southern girls LOVE their flip flops. The vast majority girls still wear dresses at Pensacola Christian College, but that is a school that would call Liberty University liberal !!!

Dressing up for football games is a tradition at UVA. Not as much as 40 years ago, but it’s not uncommon to see coeds in khakis or sundresses. Orange is the preferred color. The large percentage of students in fraternities and sororities probably reinforces the tradition.

Of course, I wouldn’t categorize UVA as a prototypical football-first southern university. It’s likely why UVA is dubbed a wine & cheese crowd. Lots of traditions.

(05-19-2020 06:18 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Dressing up for football games is a tradition at UVA. Not as much as 40 years ago, but it’s not uncommon to see coeds in khakis or sundresses. Orange is the preferred color. The large percentage of students in fraternities and sororities probably reinforces the tradition.

Of course, I wouldn’t categorize UVA as a prototypical football-first southern university. It’s likely why UVA is dubbed a wine & cheese crowd. Lots of traditions.

The Marines brought me to VA from TX, my wife has made me stay here :( But I do enjoy UVA much more than VaTech. As a Horns fan, Vatech reminds me of aggy too much lol.

I still think it was a mistake for UVA not to go all in on Mack a couple years ago. That place can sell.. academics, beautiful town and right in the middle of the fertile recruiting grounds (DMV and Hampton Rds)

(05-20-2020 04:35 PM)Thiefery Wrote:  

(05-19-2020 06:18 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Dressing up for football games is a tradition at UVA. Not as much as 40 years ago, but it’s not uncommon to see coeds in khakis or sundresses. Orange is the preferred color. The large percentage of students in fraternities and sororities probably reinforces the tradition.

Of course, I wouldn’t categorize UVA as a prototypical football-first southern university. It’s likely why UVA is dubbed a wine & cheese crowd. Lots of traditions.

The Marines brought me to VA from TX, my wife has made me stay here :( But I do enjoy UVA much more than VaTech. As a Horns fan, Vatech reminds me of aggy too much lol.

I still think it was a mistake for UVA not to go all in on Mack a couple years ago. That place can sell.. academics, beautiful town and right in the middle of the fertile recruiting grounds (DMV and Hampton Rds)

UVA has very staid administrative leaders. They are deliberate, don’t take risks and don’t overreact to adversity. With the exception of George Welsh, the coaching hires are, at best, middle-of-the-road.

UVA has to be on the short-list for all-time underachieving programs.

(05-19-2020 06:18 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Dressing up for football games is a tradition at UVA. Not as much as 40 years ago, but it’s not uncommon to see coeds in khakis or sundresses. Orange is the preferred color. The large percentage of students in fraternities and sororities probably reinforces the tradition.

Of course, I wouldn’t categorize UVA as a prototypical football-first southern university. It’s likely why UVA is dubbed a wine & cheese crowd. Lots of traditions.

That phrase was "invented" in 1991 by Florida State's Sam Cassell

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/coll...64213.html

(05-21-2020 05:03 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-19-2020 06:18 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Dressing up for football games is a tradition at UVA. Not as much as 40 years ago, but it’s not uncommon to see coeds in khakis or sundresses. Orange is the preferred color. The large percentage of students in fraternities and sororities probably reinforces the tradition.

Of course, I wouldn’t categorize UVA as a prototypical football-first southern university. It’s likely why UVA is dubbed a wine & cheese crowd. Lots of traditions.

That phrase was "invented" in 1991 by Florida State's Sam Cassell

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/coll...64213.html

As compared to Carmichael Auditorium (or Cameron), the move to the Smith Center definitely created a different atmosphere. Cassell was spot on in labeling it a wine & cheese crowd.

I loved that FSU team with Cassell and Sura...and they got better when Ward finished the football season.

UNC, Duke, GT, and UVA all have a wine and cheese feel to them.

Louisville, VT, NC St, Clemson, and Florida St are more of beer and burgers institutions.

Miami is more of a Cuban Sandwich and pina colada school.

I’m not sure what would best characterize Pitt, BC, and Cuse.

Wait...was WF invited to this tailgate?

(05-16-2020 07:40 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-13-2020 04:31 PM)JRsec Wrote:  This is where my 18 school model needs to meet XLance's Magnolia League:

SEC:
Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee

Big 10:
Indiana, Maryland, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Purdue, Rutgers
Northwestern, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Ohio State, Wisconsin
Illinois, Iowa, Iowa State, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska

Big West:
California, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State
Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal, Colorado, Utah
Arkansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech

Magnolia:
Boston College, Duke, Notre Dame, Syracuse, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Miami
Baylor, Rice, S.M.U., T.C.U., Tulane, Louisville, Brigham Young

*Note: In the interest of numbers for the Big West and considering the size of the privates and the distance to the East Coast Privates, I left the West Coast privates in the Big West.

I'll have to admit that when I started reading this post, I thought it would be just another one of JR's wild scenarios bent on breaking up the ACC, but this is actually quite good. He even placed Pitt in the proper league.
I would have to insist on an 8 game conference schedule (5/3/0) so that my school wouldn't ever have to engage with "those schools" on line #3. Also the conference would have to be re-named.....maybe we could buy back the Southern Conference name.
I also like the placement of Texas/Oklahoma in the west, where they belong, following the division placements of MLB.
Good work JR, save this one, it has merit.

WOW. Good work indeed.

The nitpick criticism I see is that Louisville is left out of the Power structure while Tulane, SMU, Tulsa, and Rice are included and Colorado is forced to the Midwest for sake of symmetry.

I would move Colorado to the Big West, with the rest of their current PAC South division. Move Northwestern in the Big 10 and shift Minnesota or Illinois to replace Colorado.

Add BYU and Louisville(?) to the Magnollia; remove Tulsa and shift Miami into Notre Dame's Magnolia division.

(05-21-2020 02:29 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  UNC, Duke, GT, and UVA all have a wine and cheese feel to them.

Louisville, VT, NC St, Clemson, and Florida St are more of beer and burgers institutions.

Miami is more of a Cuban Sandwich and pina colada school.

I’m not sure what would best characterize Pitt, BC, and Cuse.

Wait...was WF invited to this tailgate?

French Fries in your salad, Clam Chowder and Salted Potatoes.

*Dinosaur BBQ

(05-22-2020 02:07 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  *Dinosaur BBQ

I’ve eaten at this place! Good stuff

(05-21-2020 02:29 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  UNC, Duke, GT, and UVA all have a wine and cheese feel to them.

Louisville, VT, NC St, Clemson, and Florida St are more of beer and burgers institutions.

Miami is more of a Cuban Sandwich and pina colada school.

I’m not sure what would best characterize Pitt, BC, and Cuse.

Wait...was WF invited to this tailgate?

Louisville is bourbon and burgers....

(05-21-2020 02:29 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  UNC, Duke, GT, and UVA all have a wine and cheese feel to them.

Louisville, VT, NC St, Clemson, and Florida St are more of beer and burgers institutions.

Miami is more of a Cuban Sandwich and pina colada school.

I’m not sure what would best characterize Pitt, BC, and Cuse.

Wait...was WF invited to this tailgate?

I think WF is a pack of Chicken McNuggets and day-old unsweet tea

Boise State - all the potatoes

(05-15-2020 01:16 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(05-15-2020 12:10 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(05-15-2020 11:52 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(05-15-2020 10:25 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  JR—

How do you see NC St and VT getting away from UNC and UVA? I feel like their big brothers would not approve of being left behind. This is why I end up with 24 rather than 20.

Was discussed in an ACC thread the other way, the common theme is that UNC/UVA to the Big Ten and NCSt/VT to the SEC. Seems like a win/win for both states and all four public schools involved.

Financially I'd want Texas in the Big Ten (they'd be one school west of the Mississippi I'd want in the Big Ten), geographically I'd rather them be in the SEC (and so they'd be with Texas A&M). If I had to pick six, I'd say Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, Pitt, Virginia, North Carolina with Syracuse and Duke if Texas/Oklahoma go to the SEC and/or Notre Dame doesn't want to come. I'd also love Florida State.

How is it you want trash football programs like UVA and UNC but you’ve argued against adding Oklahoma and for expelling Nebraska and Iowa in other posts?

Duke? Syracuse? It’s a hard no on both of those.

Because shockingly I value other things than football. I know football is important at Ohio State but I would think OSU would realize there's more to life than football. You act as like a school with a second rate football team is a second rate university. I expect that from Alabama and Clemson. I thought Ohio State was better than that. Should OSU be in the Big Ten or the SEC?

Alabama a second rate university??? The ARWU would strongly disagree with you, IMO. To me, the University of Alabama is judged unfairly because its medical school is in its Birmingham campus as opposed to its Tuscaloosa campus, or the main branch. A much more fair way to grade the University of Alabama, IMO, is to put both Alabama and UAB in UAB's spot, because they both share the medical school. Then you have a more accurate standing of where Alabama is in the ARWU. UAB did not get that medical school on its own merits, IMO, meaning that UAB didn't have its own funds to start a medical school when Alabama or UAT decided to establish its medical school in Birmingham. UAB began its existence as Alabama's medical school because it was located in Alabama's largest city, Birmingham. UAB grew out from that, and yes, UAB is very much its own undergraduate campus, however, there is not a medical school in Tuscaloosa because UAB and UAT share the one in Birmingham, IMHO.

In addition, Birmingham is not a small city. It's not the same size as Atlanta, but its metro area does stretch from central Jefferson County all the way down to southern tip of Shelby county and at least as far west as the Tuscaloosa County border.

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