If the TV networks thought BYU would increase the TV value of a P5 conference, the Big 12 would have added them when they considered a dozen schools for expansion a few years ago. Instead, the president of Fox Sports publicly said it would be a mistake for the Big 12 to expand.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(05-12-2020 11:06 PM)Wedge Wrote:  If the TV networks thought BYU would increase the TV value of a P5 conference, the Big 12 would have added them when they considered a dozen schools for expansion a few years ago. Instead, the president of Fox Sports publicly said it would be a mistake for the Big 12 to expand.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The sticking point was Sunday play for sports other than football.

Well that, and the fact that neither Texas nor Oklahoma were big on wanting expansion. I think they preferred to wait out the interim to see what options opened before making a final decision. I made that bet with a few folks who are no longer here ~ 2011-2.

(05-12-2020 11:10 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-12-2020 11:06 PM)Wedge Wrote:  If the TV networks thought BYU would increase the TV value of a P5 conference, the Big 12 would have added them when they considered a dozen schools for expansion a few years ago. Instead, the president of Fox Sports publicly said it would be a mistake for the Big 12 to expand.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The sticking point was Sunday play for sports other than football.

Well that, and the fact that neither Texas nor Oklahoma were big on wanting expansion. I think they preferred to wait out the interim to see what options opened before making a final decision. I made that bet with a few folks who are no longer here ~ 2011-2.

No, it was that Fox thought it would dilute the conference's TV value.

Quote:“We don’t think expansion in the Big 12 is a good idea for the conference. We think it will be dilutive to the product in the short term. In the long term, it’s probably harmful to the future of the conference."

(05-12-2020 11:27 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-12-2020 11:10 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-12-2020 11:06 PM)Wedge Wrote:  If the TV networks thought BYU would increase the TV value of a P5 conference, the Big 12 would have added them when they considered a dozen schools for expansion a few years ago. Instead, the president of Fox Sports publicly said it would be a mistake for the Big 12 to expand.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The sticking point was Sunday play for sports other than football.

Well that, and the fact that neither Texas nor Oklahoma were big on wanting expansion. I think they preferred to wait out the interim to see what options opened before making a final decision. I made that bet with a few folks who are no longer here ~ 2011-2.

No, it was that Fox thought it would dilute the conference's TV value.

Quote:“We don’t think expansion in the Big 12 is a good idea for the conference. We think it will be dilutive to the product in the short term. In the long term, it’s probably harmful to the future of the conference."

I think that tag line from FOX referred to the myriad of G5 programs they held the dog and pony show to interview and get estimates on. B.Y.U. was under consideration long before that. But it's moot now.

Yeah, I wasn't a fan of BYU being in the Big 12.. Already have a cult in Waco. That FOX sports person was smart to say that. Glad the Big 12 didn't expand with BYU or Cincy or Memphis. Seems like the two AZ schools would be a perfect pair to make the Big 12, 12 again.

(05-12-2020 08:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-12-2020 08:04 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-12-2020 05:32 PM)JRsec Wrote:  If not for intolerance of Religious beliefs B.Y.U. would earn the PAC money.

Nope. Pac-12 teams don't share ticket revenue, gate receipts, whatever you want to call it. Whether a team sells as many tickets as Washington, or only as many as Wazzu at lower prices, they keep their own.

Well if 69,000 is as good as you can do it probably doesn't make that much difference now does it? B.Y.U. would at least add more games of interest in the region helping TV numbers which are as woeful as the attendance.

And note to Muskie: Normally F.S.U. draws in the 73,000 range. Last year was disgust with the situation. But as far as those 20 schools above the cut goes, those are the ones who drive the TV ratings for the most part. It is a great illustration as to why the conferences are paid what they are paid.

Correct, it’s a down year for FSU and they will bounce back. I question whether USC will ever return to their old form as a true power.

I think this all serves to demonstrate that if you consolidated the likes of Texas, Oklahoma, FSU, Clemson, and ND into the Big Ten and SEC those two become their own category financially.

Expand the Big 2 to 18 schools apiece, 3 divisions of 6. Institute a 4 team conference playoff for division winners and an at large.

(05-12-2020 01:26 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Maybe the ACC would be better off if Duke and WF stopped fielding teams

I'm sure if those two asked to be non-football members (at reduced share, of course), the rest of the schools would fight over the pens to sign it into the by-laws!

(05-13-2020 03:56 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-12-2020 01:26 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Maybe the ACC would be better off if Duke and WF stopped fielding teams

I'm sure if those two asked to be non-football members (at reduced share, of course), the rest of the schools would fight over the pens to sign it into the by-laws!

This is where my 18 school model needs to meet XLance's Magnolia League:

SEC:
Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee

Big 10:
Indiana, Maryland, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Purdue, Rutgers
Illinois, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Ohio State, Wisconsin
Colorado, Iowa, Iowa State, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska

Big West:
California, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State
Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal, Brigham Young, Utah
Arkansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech

Magnolia:
Boston College, Duke, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Syracuse, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest
Baylor, Miami, Rice, S.M.U., T.C.U., Tulane, Tulsa

*Note: In the interest of numbers for the Big West and considering the size of the privates and the distance to the East Coast Privates, I left the West Coast privates in the Big West.

JR—I like your 18 team SEC a lot. The Big 10 isn’t bad either but I’d prefer to get ND and Oklahoma in there.

Thoughts on this 24 team set up?

North: WVU, VT, UVA, UNC, NC St, Clemson
South: SC, GT, UGA, UF, FSU, Miami
Central: UK, L’ville, Vandy, Tenn, Bama, Auburn
West: Ole Miss, Miss St, LSU, Ark, TAMU, Texas

Missouri goes to a super Big 10.

9 game conference schedule with some protected crossovers:
SC-Clemson
Auburn-UGA
Alabama-Miss St
WVU-Miami (this one only exists because these two don’t have a traditional end of season match up like everyone else)

the Big 10 gets a similar supersized format.

My logic for the bigger than really necessary size is to control more content and provide some programs that can absorb losses.

(05-13-2020 05:05 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  JR—I like your 18 team SEC a lot. The Big 10 isn’t bad either but I’d prefer to get ND and Oklahoma in there.

Thoughts on this 24 team set up?

North: WVU, VT, UVA, UNC, NC St, Clemson
South: SC, GT, UGA, UF, FSU, Miami
Central: UK, L’ville, Vandy, Tenn, Bama, Auburn
West: Ole Miss, Miss St, LSU, Ark, TAMU, Texas

Missouri goes to a super Big 10.

9 game conference schedule with some protected crossovers:
SC-Clemson
Auburn-UGA
Alabama-Miss St
WVU-Miami (this one only exists because these two don’t have a traditional end of season match up like everyone else)

the Big 10 gets a similar supersized format.

My logic for the bigger than really necessary size is to control more content and provide some programs that can absorb losses.

At 24 the best approach is to move the 9 AAU schools of the PAC into the Big 10 plus Notre Dame. Northwestern stays.

SEC the current 14 stay but Vanderbilt moves in as partial. Add Virginia, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, N.C.State, North Carolina, Clemson, and Florida State from the ACC. Add Texas, Kansas, and Oklahoma from the Big 12 and finish out with Duke, Wake Forest, and

Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Miami, Louisville, Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, T.C.U., Baylor, Texas Tech, Arizona, Washington State, Oregon State, Brigham Young, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Temple, South Florida, Central Florida, San Diego State, Boise State, Memphis, and East Carolina (or some other variation) forms the third conference whose champ will be in.

(05-13-2020 05:38 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-13-2020 05:05 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  JR—I like your 18 team SEC a lot. The Big 10 isn’t bad either but I’d prefer to get ND and Oklahoma in there.

Thoughts on this 24 team set up?

North: WVU, VT, UVA, UNC, NC St, Clemson
South: SC, GT, UGA, UF, FSU, Miami
Central: UK, L’ville, Vandy, Tenn, Bama, Auburn
West: Ole Miss, Miss St, LSU, Ark, TAMU, Texas

Missouri goes to a super Big 10.

9 game conference schedule with some protected crossovers:
SC-Clemson
Auburn-UGA
Alabama-Miss St
WVU-Miami (this one only exists because these two don’t have a traditional end of season match up like everyone else)

the Big 10 gets a similar supersized format.

My logic for the bigger than really necessary size is to control more content and provide some programs that can absorb losses.

At 24 the best approach is to move the 9 AAU schools of the PAC into the Big 10 plus Notre Dame. Northwestern stays.

SEC the current 14 stay but Vanderbilt moves in as partial. Add Virginia, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, N.C.State, North Carolina, Clemson, and Florida State from the ACC. Add Texas, Kansas, and Oklahoma from the Big 12 and finish out with Duke, Wake Forest, and

Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Miami, Louisville, Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, T.C.U., Baylor, Texas Tech, Arizona, Washington State, Oregon State, Brigham Young, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Temple, South Florida, Central Florida, San Diego State, Boise State, Memphis, and East Carolina (or some other variation) forms the third conference whose champ will be in.

Nah; the more I look at where the PAC 12 is now and where they are trending as a Big Ten fan I don’t see value in adding a bunch of them. Now switch the conversation to old Big 8 schools and now we are talking.

Missouri, Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa St, Colorado, ND for 20, maybe toss in Pitt and for 21 and 3 divisions of 7:

West: Colorado, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Iowa St, Iowa
Central: Minnesota, Wisconsin, NW, Illinois, ND, Indiana, Purdue
East: Mich, Mich St, Ohio St, Pitt, Penn St, Maryland, Rutgers

10 game conference schedule: 6 division mates plus 2 from each of the other 2 divisions

At 20 I’d do 4 divisions of 5:

West: Oklahoma, Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa St, Missouri
North: Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Illinois
Central: Purdue, Indiana, Michigan, Mich St, Ohio St
East: Notre Dame, Pitt, Penn St, Maryland, Rutgers

This is probably my favorite 20 team set up.

(05-12-2020 05:32 PM)JRsec Wrote:  If not for intolerance of Religious beliefs B.Y.U. would earn the PAC money.

Let's look at some of the most trumpeted names for moving up to the P5 and see what they did:

Central Florida 43,788
Cincinnati 35,985
Houston 25,518
San Diego State 29,896
South Florida 31,823
Temple 29,460

Clearly the only one coming close to challenging B.Y.U. is UCF. There aren't any other figures even close to the average of any P5 conference.

Temple 2008 attendance: 15,582
Temple 2019 attendance: 29,460

Louisville 2008 attendance: 39,680
Louisville 2019 attendance: 49,913

Memphis, Northwestern, TCU, Miss State, ISU, A&M are a few of the programs that have also had similar growth, but no one in the country other than us has nearly doubled their attendance over that pretty short period.

There's no reason we can't mirror Louisville even without their advantages.

(05-12-2020 05:23 AM)XLance Wrote:  BTW, VT is only 8K below capacity, while UVa is 14K below.
Neither one of those programs have coaches that are generating very much excitement.
In the ACC the only schools that were full last year were: Clemson, NCSU and Carolina.

lolwut. lolUVA fans are all hyped up about Mendenhall. You'd think they were going to beat Clemson by 50 next year.

(05-13-2020 09:39 AM)Thiefery Wrote:  Yeah, I wasn't a fan of BYU being in the Big 12.. Already have a cult in Waco. That FOX sports person was smart to say that. Glad the Big 12 didn't expand with BYU or Cincy or Memphis. Seems like the two AZ schools would be a perfect pair to make the Big 12, 12 again.

Instead of that, how about you take Colorado back and take Utah with them and we'll call it even.

(05-13-2020 10:47 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-13-2020 09:39 AM)Thiefery Wrote:  Yeah, I wasn't a fan of BYU being in the Big 12.. Already have a cult in Waco. That FOX sports person was smart to say that. Glad the Big 12 didn't expand with BYU or Cincy or Memphis. Seems like the two AZ schools would be a perfect pair to make the Big 12, 12 again.

Instead of that, how about you take Colorado back and take Utah with them and we'll call it even.

LOL.. how about we take Utah but you take Baylor? keep Colorado

If we're about taking back, can the Big 12 take back Nebraska and take Iowa too so the Big Ten can be entirely East of the Mississippi?

Interesting factoid: getting 2nd place in attendance in the PAC 12 and ACC, and 3rd place in the Big 12 is the equivalent of 9th place in the SEC or 8th in the Big Ten.

(05-14-2020 10:11 AM)schmolik Wrote:  If we're about taking back, can the Big 12 take back Nebraska and take Iowa too so the Big Ten can be entirely East of the Mississippi?

Nope!

(05-14-2020 10:11 AM)schmolik Wrote:  If we're about taking back, can the Big 12 take back Nebraska and take Iowa too so the Big Ten can be entirely East of the Mississippi?

I actually like having Nebraska around and I wish we’d bring in more AAU Big 8 schools.

My ideal Big Ten would be 20 schools with Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa St, Missouri, ND, and Pitt joining.

4 pods of 5.

If we could do a take back let’s give up Maryland and Rutgers—we already had Indiana, Illinois, and Northwestern as our dumpster fire programs. They are encroaching on that role.

(05-14-2020 02:57 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(05-14-2020 10:11 AM)schmolik Wrote:  If we're about taking back, can the Big 12 take back Nebraska and take Iowa too so the Big Ten can be entirely East of the Mississippi?

I actually like having Nebraska around and I wish we’d bring in more AAU Big 8 schools.

My ideal Big Ten would be 20 schools with Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa St, Missouri, ND, and Pitt joining.

4 pods of 5.

If we could do a take back let’s give up Maryland and Rutgers—we already had Indiana, Illinois, and Northwestern as our dumpster fire programs. They are encroaching on that role.

I take it geography means nothing to you. You'd probably rather have Oregon in the Big Ten than Maryland even though you could drive from Columbus to College Park. Geography means something to me. Sue me. And Maryland has more in common with Pennsylvania and Ohio than Oregon does (or Nebraska and Iowa do).