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Big 12 after the GOR...the independence movement
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #1
Big 12 after the GOR...the independence movement
We've thrown around the idea of the PAC 12 and the Big 12 reconstituting after their respective GORs expire, but what if we have a less centralized approach?

In other words, what if the current members of the Big 12 do not move in unison on much of anything? Nonetheless, what if the league survives with a few crazy twists?

The scenario starts here...

Oklahoma is ready to get out of the shadow of Texas. The SEC is their best option for money and exposure. The league pushes hard in this direction because the ACC schools are still closed off for at least another decade. Meanwhile ESPN still wants to grow their product in the region anyway...they're not interested in breaking up the ACC at this time. Kansas is a good partner to accompany them.

For the first time, these schools have their top product consistently on ABC and ESPN while they have their 3rd tier product on the SEC Network and ESPN+. It's kind of the best of both worlds.

The second aspect of this scenario follows. Texas doesn't want to go to the SEC and the PAC 12 isn't viable. They've got leaders seriously discussing devoting prime product to Apple TV and UT isn't going to put their games on that platform or alter their time slots to fit a West Coast focused schedule that only gets major exposure late at night.

They want to keep the Big 12 together, but more as proxy league. They don't really want to do it, but they're going independent in football because it's the least distressing option. In the future, if it's not working for them then they know all the options that existed prior will still be available to them. So the Big 12 still exists with Texas as a partial member.

Here's where it gets tricky though...the current Big 12 schools aren't all going to stick around. Oklahoma and Kansas are already gone, but the end of the GOR brings an opportunity to reorganize the core.

As Texas tends to call the shots, you'll still have Texas Tech, TCU, and Baylor in the fold. Oklahoma State, Kansas State, and Iowa State have nowhere else to go so they're happy to stick around. West Virginia on the other hand is not embraced back in the fold. They're basically kicked out so that the geographic core of the league can move West.

The key here is that USC is also going independent. They're fed up with PAC 12 leadership and their rigid ways. They have a top brand to maintain and so aligning with Texas is beneficial as long as they aren't taking 2nd fiddle status. USC becomes a partial member of the Big 12 with the following moves also occurring.

Arizona and Arizona State are free to move given their connection to Southern California isn't broken. Utah and BYU do the same thing.

The Big 12 now has 10 full members stretching across the Western and Central US. They have 2 partials in Texas and USC. These are your new power brokers and this new league carries some cross-regional appeal without requiring all these schools to travel extensively on a regular basis.

The basketball is still pretty solid with regard to revenue potential. While travel for minor sports is more of a bear, they do limit the number of sports the new league offers. Outlying sports are encouraged to affiliate with other leagues in the region should the schools still wish to participate.
04-22-2020 05:02 PM
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ICThawk Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Big 12 after the GOR...the independence movement
(04-22-2020 05:02 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  We've thrown around the idea of the PAC 12 and the Big 12 reconstituting after their respective GORs expire, but what if we have a less centralized approach?

In other words, what if the current members of the Big 12 do not move in unison on much of anything? Nonetheless, what if the league survives with a few crazy twists?

The scenario starts here...

Oklahoma is ready to get out of the shadow of Texas. The SEC is their best option for money and exposure. The league pushes hard in this direction because the ACC schools are still closed off for at least another decade. Meanwhile ESPN still wants to grow their product in the region anyway...they're not interested in breaking up the ACC at this time. Kansas is a good partner to accompany them.

For the first time, these schools have their top product consistently on ABC and ESPN while they have their 3rd tier product on the SEC Network and ESPN+. It's kind of the best of both worlds.

The second aspect of this scenario follows. Texas doesn't want to go to the SEC and the PAC 12 isn't viable. They've got leaders seriously discussing devoting prime product to Apple TV and UT isn't going to put their games on that platform or alter their time slots to fit a West Coast focused schedule that only gets major exposure late at night.

They want to keep the Big 12 together, but more as proxy league. They don't really want to do it, but they're going independent in football because it's the least distressing option. In the future, if it's not working for them then they know all the options that existed prior will still be available to them. So the Big 12 still exists with Texas as a partial member.

Here's where it gets tricky though...the current Big 12 schools aren't all going to stick around. Oklahoma and Kansas are already gone, but the end of the GOR brings an opportunity to reorganize the core.

As Texas tends to call the shots, you'll still have Texas Tech, TCU, and Baylor in the fold. Oklahoma State, Kansas State, and Iowa State have nowhere else to go so they're happy to stick around. West Virginia on the other hand is not embraced back in the fold. They're basically kicked out so that the geographic core of the league can move West.

The key here is that USC is also going independent. They're fed up with PAC 12 leadership and their rigid ways. They have a top brand to maintain and so aligning with Texas is beneficial as long as they aren't taking 2nd fiddle status. USC becomes a partial member of the Big 12 with the following moves also occurring.

Arizona and Arizona State are free to move given their connection to Southern California isn't broken. Utah and BYU do the same thing.

The Big 12 now has 10 full members stretching across the Western and Central US. They have 2 partials in Texas and USC. These are your new power brokers and this new league carries some cross-regional appeal without requiring all these schools to travel extensively on a regular basis.

The basketball is still pretty solid with regard to revenue potential. While travel for minor sports is more of a bear, they do limit the number of sports the new league offers. Outlying sports are encouraged to affiliate with other leagues in the region should the schools still wish to participate.

As usual, the devil is in the details. These are only a few questions/thoughts off the top of my mind.
How many football (and other sports) games will UT play with the remaining Big XII members? If not many would say ISU and/or KSU try to move and hope to be "Big Dogs" in the AAC rather than stay with the "new" Big XII? If so, wouldn't that make the Big XII almost impossible to meet the 10 team minimum for a conference? Would the Big XII be considered a P5 without OU & KU, and UT only as a partial? If not, why would UT and/or USC want to even be a partial? I'm not sure how USC becoming independent would allow the Arizonas to "keep their connection" to southern California (again, how "connected" USC would be as a partial) to any great degree, let alone Utah and BYU. Will Colorado become the outlier "West Virginia of the Pac" team?
04-22-2020 05:59 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Big 12 after the GOR...the independence movement
(04-22-2020 05:02 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  We've thrown around the idea of the PAC 12 and the Big 12 reconstituting after their respective GORs expire, but what if we have a less centralized approach?

In other words, what if the current members of the Big 12 do not move in unison on much of anything? Nonetheless, what if the league survives with a few crazy twists?

The scenario starts here...

Oklahoma is ready to get out of the shadow of Texas. The SEC is their best option for money and exposure. The league pushes hard in this direction because the ACC schools are still closed off for at least another decade. Meanwhile ESPN still wants to grow their product in the region anyway...they're not interested in breaking up the ACC at this time. Kansas is a good partner to accompany them.

For the first time, these schools have their top product consistently on ABC and ESPN while they have their 3rd tier product on the SEC Network and ESPN+. It's kind of the best of both worlds.

The second aspect of this scenario follows. Texas doesn't want to go to the SEC and the PAC 12 isn't viable. They've got leaders seriously discussing devoting prime product to Apple TV and UT isn't going to put their games on that platform or alter their time slots to fit a West Coast focused schedule that only gets major exposure late at night.

They want to keep the Big 12 together, but more as proxy league. They don't really want to do it, but they're going independent in football because it's the least distressing option. In the future, if it's not working for them then they know all the options that existed prior will still be available to them. So the Big 12 still exists with Texas as a partial member.

Here's where it gets tricky though...the current Big 12 schools aren't all going to stick around. Oklahoma and Kansas are already gone, but the end of the GOR brings an opportunity to reorganize the core.

As Texas tends to call the shots, you'll still have Texas Tech, TCU, and Baylor in the fold. Oklahoma State, Kansas State, and Iowa State have nowhere else to go so they're happy to stick around. West Virginia on the other hand is not embraced back in the fold. They're basically kicked out so that the geographic core of the league can move West.

The key here is that USC is also going independent. They're fed up with PAC 12 leadership and their rigid ways. They have a top brand to maintain and so aligning with Texas is beneficial as long as they aren't taking 2nd fiddle status. USC becomes a partial member of the Big 12 with the following moves also occurring.

Arizona and Arizona State are free to move given their connection to Southern California isn't broken. Utah and BYU do the same thing.

The Big 12 now has 10 full members stretching across the Western and Central US. They have 2 partials in Texas and USC. These are your new power brokers and this new league carries some cross-regional appeal without requiring all these schools to travel extensively on a regular basis.

The basketball is still pretty solid with regard to revenue potential. While travel for minor sports is more of a bear, they do limit the number of sports the new league offers. Outlying sports are encouraged to affiliate with other leagues in the region should the schools still wish to participate.

Okay, but let me play along with a twist. Washington joins with USC
and Texas and independents. The LHN has had difficulty drawing flies. Let's say the wrinkle consists of these two elements: The LHN is converted to be a joint channel for the content of USC, Washington, Texas and somebody else, Notre Dame.

Now let's say that you are correct and Kansas and Oklahoma join the SEC. Let's say further that West Virginia joins the ACC and does so along with another school, for the sake of argument I'm going to say it is Cincinnati.

ESPN agrees to let N.D. out of the ACC conference arrangement but not out of the obligation for the 2/3 alternating away games they owe the ACC on the contract.

So the New Conference to the West Becomes this:
Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington State (Notre Dame)
Arizona, Arizona State, California, California Los Angeles (USC)
Colorado, Iowa State, Kansas State, Utah (Washington)
Baylor, Oklahoma State, Texas Christian, Texas Tech (Texas)

Now each of the independents is attached to one of those divisions. If they win that division they are in the conference playoffs. If they don't they aren't, but might remain in contention for a national at large spot with a sound record.

So each owes the new conference 4 games. Notre Dame owes 2/3 to the ACC, and the independents play each other for 3 more games.

So Texas, Washington, and USC are obligated for 7 games a year. Texas gets those in Texas games being attached to their division.
Notre Dame owes 9 to 10 games a year, plays Stanford and U.S.C automatically, gets Texas, plays 2 or 3 away ACC games, and still has 2 to 3 games left to schedule Navy or a deep south game.

I think this works.

So the ACC becomes:
Boston College, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
Louisville, N.C. State, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, Wake Forest
Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami

The SEC becomes:
Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State
Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas A&M

The Big 10 remains the same until 2037.
04-22-2020 05:59 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Big 12 after the GOR...the independence movement
(04-22-2020 05:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-22-2020 05:02 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  We've thrown around the idea of the PAC 12 and the Big 12 reconstituting after their respective GORs expire, but what if we have a less centralized approach?

In other words, what if the current members of the Big 12 do not move in unison on much of anything? Nonetheless, what if the league survives with a few crazy twists?

The scenario starts here...

Oklahoma is ready to get out of the shadow of Texas. The SEC is their best option for money and exposure. The league pushes hard in this direction because the ACC schools are still closed off for at least another decade. Meanwhile ESPN still wants to grow their product in the region anyway...they're not interested in breaking up the ACC at this time. Kansas is a good partner to accompany them.

For the first time, these schools have their top product consistently on ABC and ESPN while they have their 3rd tier product on the SEC Network and ESPN+. It's kind of the best of both worlds.

The second aspect of this scenario follows. Texas doesn't want to go to the SEC and the PAC 12 isn't viable. They've got leaders seriously discussing devoting prime product to Apple TV and UT isn't going to put their games on that platform or alter their time slots to fit a West Coast focused schedule that only gets major exposure late at night.

They want to keep the Big 12 together, but more as proxy league. They don't really want to do it, but they're going independent in football because it's the least distressing option. In the future, if it's not working for them then they know all the options that existed prior will still be available to them. So the Big 12 still exists with Texas as a partial member.

Here's where it gets tricky though...the current Big 12 schools aren't all going to stick around. Oklahoma and Kansas are already gone, but the end of the GOR brings an opportunity to reorganize the core.

As Texas tends to call the shots, you'll still have Texas Tech, TCU, and Baylor in the fold. Oklahoma State, Kansas State, and Iowa State have nowhere else to go so they're happy to stick around. West Virginia on the other hand is not embraced back in the fold. They're basically kicked out so that the geographic core of the league can move West.

The key here is that USC is also going independent. They're fed up with PAC 12 leadership and their rigid ways. They have a top brand to maintain and so aligning with Texas is beneficial as long as they aren't taking 2nd fiddle status. USC becomes a partial member of the Big 12 with the following moves also occurring.

Arizona and Arizona State are free to move given their connection to Southern California isn't broken. Utah and BYU do the same thing.

The Big 12 now has 10 full members stretching across the Western and Central US. They have 2 partials in Texas and USC. These are your new power brokers and this new league carries some cross-regional appeal without requiring all these schools to travel extensively on a regular basis.

The basketball is still pretty solid with regard to revenue potential. While travel for minor sports is more of a bear, they do limit the number of sports the new league offers. Outlying sports are encouraged to affiliate with other leagues in the region should the schools still wish to participate.

Okay, but let me play along with a twist. Washington joins with USC
and Texas and independents. The LHN has had difficulty drawing flies. Let's say the wrinkle consists of these two elements: The LHN is converted to be a joint channel for the content of USC, Washington, Texas and somebody else, Notre Dame.

Now let's say that you are correct and Kansas and Oklahoma join the SEC. Let's say further that West Virginia joins the ACC and does so along with another school, for the sake of argument I'm going to say it is Cincinnati.

ESPN agrees to let N.D. out of the ACC conference arrangement but not out of the obligation for the 2/3 alternating away games they owe the ACC on the contract.

So the New Conference to the West Becomes this:
Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington State (Notre Dame)
Arizona, Arizona State, California, California Los Angeles (USC)
Colorado, Iowa State, Kansas State, Utah (Washington)
Baylor, Oklahoma State, Texas Christian, Texas Tech (Texas)

Now each of the independents is attached to one of those divisions. If they win that division they are in the conference playoffs. If they don't they aren't, but might remain in contention for a national at large spot with a sound record.

So each owes the new conference 4 games. Notre Dame owes 2/3 to the ACC, and the independents play each other for 3 more games.

So Texas, Washington, and USC are obligated for 7 games a year. Texas gets those in Texas games being attached to their division.
Notre Dame owes 9 to 10 games a year, plays Stanford and U.S.C automatically, gets Texas, plays 2 or 3 away ACC games, and still has 2 to 3 games left to schedule Navy or a deep south game.

I think this works.

So the ACC becomes:
Boston College, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
Louisville, N.C. State, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, Wake Forest
Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami

The SEC becomes:
Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State
Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas A&M

The Big 10 remains the same until 2037.

Note: You could find a way to include B.Y.U. in the new conference instead of Washington but if so that reshuffles who goes where in the East. Perhaps Kansas and Iowa State head to the Big 10, Oklahoma and T.C.U. to the SEC, and West Virginia and Cincinnati to the ACC. In that event then perhaps Nevada becomes a member of the new conferences.

So the New Conference becomes:
Nevada, Stanford, Washington, Washington State (Notre Dame)
California, California Los Angeles, Oregon, Oregon State (U.S.C.)
Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah (Brigham Young)
Baylor, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech (Texas)

B1G:
Maryland, Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers
Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue
Illinois, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin
Iowa, Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska

SEC:
Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State
Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas Christian, Texas A&M

ACC:
Boston College, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
Louisville, N.C. State, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, Wake Forest
Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami
(This post was last modified: 04-22-2020 07:10 PM by JRsec.)
04-22-2020 06:03 PM
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