If, for whatever reason, the MAC did expand or have a need to fill open spots, I think Marshall and WKU would be good candidates. When I attended Marshall back in the day, we were in the MAC and I remember a lot of great games and heated rivalries. WKU football and basketball are pretty good and, IMO, would definitely bring value to the conference.

(04-20-2020 09:56 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  For me, the question of expansion is entirely dependent on if Marshall wants in. If Marshall doesn’t, there’s no discussion. If Marshall does, that program ...

... a long history of not being a good institutional fit with the MAC and of being a footloose school looking for the pasture that is greener on the other side of the fence.

Expansion past 12 requires a compelling add. Temple was genuinely compelling, if one accepts that the speed of the raids on the Big East leading them to wanting Temple back was not forseeable. Marshall was fool's gold.

(04-20-2020 01:05 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(04-20-2020 07:04 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  The only reason there is any MAC expansion talks is because non-MAC fans keep coming to this board and posting them. It's a pretty resounding no to expansion among MAC fans. I'm looking at the results and I see 8 votes currently for no expansion and 1 vote for expansion. I wouldn't be surprised if that 1 vote for yes isn't even a MAC fan.

I get that perspective. Heck, the MAC has a lot of reasons to be satisfied with the status quo, especially compared to the Sun Belt and C-USA, where many, many fans and schools want some sort of rearrangement.

I was hesitant, as an outsider/App State fan, to start a poll thread on another conference's board because I kind of expected some pushback.

I'm not trying to say the MAC should expand, only that maybe it should weigh options and evaluate them if they're available. I can definitely see the argument against expansion of any kind. One, the MAC has been there, done that since 1997 with six schools, and today only two (Buffalo and NIU) remain in the conference. So why put yourselves through that again, right? Also, 14 members starts to get unwieldy. There can also be a diminishing return on TV revenue as well as CFP payouts at 14 members. So, again, I get the votes against expansion of any kind.

I just wanted to get the pulse of how MAC fans in general feel about it. So far, there isn't a consensus, but there is a supermajority among fans against it. I'd love to hear more explanations for an against expansion.

Much respect for welcoming an outsider's inquiry. Thanks for yall's input.

I see 13 for (including "Other"), 21 against. I wouldn't call that overwhelming.

(04-20-2020 08:58 PM)utpotts Wrote:  Another one of these ******* threads.........

It isn't like we have baseball to talk about.

(04-21-2020 10:50 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-20-2020 09:56 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  For me, the question of expansion is entirely dependent on if Marshall wants in. If Marshall doesn’t, there’s no discussion. If Marshall does, that program ...

... a long history of not being a good institutional fit with the MAC and of being a footloose school looking for the pasture that is greener on the other side of the fence.

Expansion past 12 requires a compelling add. Temple was genuinely compelling, if one accepts that the speed of the raids on the Big East leading them to wanting Temple back was not forseeable. Marshall was fool's gold.

I think Marshall is compelling. Good football fan base, close to the league footprint while still adding a new market. As far as institutional fit: Marshall is now a "national university" (in the terminology of U.S. News) like the rest of us.

I personally have much respect for the MAC, but what I don't get is why some of you MAC fans feel like you got cheated by Marshall moving on to CUSA. Let's look at the reasons Marshall and UCF were interested in moving to CUSA, at that specific time.

1. Money: TV money was non existent more or less, Marshall went from making 50K from TV revenue to 1.2 million.
2. Access to bowls (at that specific time). The MAC had 2 ties, CUSA had 5 in comparison.
3. The conference at that time did not aid any bowl team in covering the cost, when Marshall went bowling, it always put the school in the red.
4. CUSA make up was fairly attractive and considered the top G5 conference more years than not, even after the 2.0 version

These are the most obvious reasons Marshall left, and obviously things have changed dramatically for the MAC since then, in a good way. Given the current landscape I would say the MAC is the 3rd best G5 conference, sometimes the second, and money distribution certainly has changed since the Marshall days. Bowl tie in's increased by 2-3 times, depending on what year it is. If the landscape had been this way back in the early 2000s, I don't think Marshall would have left, but then again, CUSA back then was not what it is today either. I do miss the Toledo, Ohio, Miami, WMU games, even the Akron games. I would be an advocate for MU to return to the MAC if it came as a viable option. If the MAC really wanted to gut CUSA, they would make overtures to Marshall, MTSU, WKU. Those 3 are the core of the east division. Sometimes to survive, you have to think forward for conferences and schools alike.

(04-21-2020 10:50 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-20-2020 09:56 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  For me, the question of expansion is entirely dependent on if Marshall wants in. If Marshall doesn’t, there’s no discussion. If Marshall does, that program ...

... a long history of not being a good institutional fit with the MAC and of being a footloose school looking for the pasture that is greener on the other side of the fence.

Expansion past 12 requires a compelling add. Temple was genuinely compelling, if one accepts that the speed of the raids on the Big East leading them to wanting Temple back was not forseeable. Marshall was fool's gold.

Bruce, set emotions aside and look at things objectively.

Every single MAC school would take the opportunity to:
- affiliate with UCF, Memphis, SMU, & Houston (athletically)
- affiliate with Tulane & Rice (academically)
- triple their league's bowl slots (2 to 6)
- multiply their tv revenue by 13 ($37,500 to $500,000)

Marshall was the MAC school who earned that opportunity. Good on them.

Marshall fans fill up home games better than any MAC school. Marshall fans travel. They broke attendance records at places like Yager and the Glass Bowl. That inspired rivalries and hatred. That aces my definition of compelling.

I feel tons of nostalgia for it. I feel none for the days Temple brought 5-12 fans to road games.

(04-21-2020 12:40 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  I personally have much respect for the MAC, but what I don't get is why some of you MAC fans feel like you got cheated by Marshall moving on to CUSA. Let's look at the reasons Marshall and UCF were interested in moving to CUSA, at that specific time.

1. Money: TV money was non existent more or less, Marshall went from making 50K from TV revenue to 1.2 million.
2. Access to bowls (at that specific time). The MAC had 2 ties, CUSA had 5 in comparison.
3. The conference at that time did not aid any bowl team in covering the cost, when Marshall went bowling, it always put the school in the red.
4. CUSA make up was fairly attractive and considered the top G5 conference more years than not, even after the 2.0 version

These are the most obvious reasons Marshall left, and obviously things have changed dramatically for the MAC since then, in a good way. Given the current landscape I would say the MAC is the 3rd best G5 conference, sometimes the second, and money distribution certainly has changed since the Marshall days. Bowl tie in's increased by 2-3 times, depending on what year it is. If the landscape had been this way back in the early 2000s, I don't think Marshall would have left, but then again, CUSA back then was not what it is today either. I do miss the Toledo, Ohio, Miami, WMU games, even the Akron games. I would be an advocate for MU to return to the MAC if it came as a viable option. If the MAC really wanted to gut CUSA, they would make overtures to Marshall, MTSU, WKU. Those 3 are the core of the east division. Sometimes to survive, you have to think forward for conferences and schools alike.

It's pure jealousy. Any fact-based, objective analysis of that situation would conclude every MAC school would make the same move to further itself if given the opportunity.

Presidents aren't driven by emotion. They're driven by facts and money.

I am not sure any MAC schools are jealous that Marshall left. However, all the points made above about why we left are valid. Kudos to the MAC for bettering themselves and becoming what they have. I mean hey, you all have sent 2 teams to BCS bowls. The current CUSA has sent zip, Nadda, none. Give me Marshall/JMU or a Marshall/WKU add i would take that ANY day over what we have now.

(04-21-2020 12:45 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-21-2020 10:50 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-20-2020 09:56 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  For me, the question of expansion is entirely dependent on if Marshall wants in. If Marshall doesn’t, there’s no discussion. If Marshall does, that program ...

... a long history of not being a good institutional fit with the MAC and of being a footloose school looking for the pasture that is greener on the other side of the fence.

Expansion past 12 requires a compelling add. Temple was genuinely compelling, if one accepts that the speed of the raids on the Big East leading them to wanting Temple back was not forseeable. Marshall was fool's gold.

Bruce, set emotions aside and look at things objectively.

Every single MAC school would take the opportunity to:
- affiliate with UCF, Memphis, SMU, & Houston (athletically)
- affiliate with Tulane & Rice (academically)
- triple their league's bowl slots (2 to 6)
- multiply their tv revenue by 13 ($37,500 to $500,000)

Marshall was the MAC school who earned that opportunity. Good on them.

Marshall fans fill up home games better than any MAC school. Marshall fans travel. They broke attendance records at places like Yager and the Glass Bowl. That inspired rivalries and hatred. That aces my definition of compelling.

I feel tons of nostalgia for it. I feel none for the days Temple brought 5-12 fans to road games.

Yea, Temple was a castoff basketball school that we took in for football only. Very much like UMass. I'd rather have had Marshall at that point. They had good reasons to leave, and I don't think they'd want to play 4 games on Tuesday nights so I can't see them wanting to come back.

(04-21-2020 02:41 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(04-21-2020 12:45 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-21-2020 10:50 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-20-2020 09:56 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  For me, the question of expansion is entirely dependent on if Marshall wants in. If Marshall doesn’t, there’s no discussion. If Marshall does, that program ...

... a long history of not being a good institutional fit with the MAC and of being a footloose school looking for the pasture that is greener on the other side of the fence.

Expansion past 12 requires a compelling add. Temple was genuinely compelling, if one accepts that the speed of the raids on the Big East leading them to wanting Temple back was not forseeable. Marshall was fool's gold.

Bruce, set emotions aside and look at things objectively.

Every single MAC school would take the opportunity to:
- affiliate with UCF, Memphis, SMU, & Houston (athletically)
- affiliate with Tulane & Rice (academically)
- triple their league's bowl slots (2 to 6)
- multiply their tv revenue by 13 ($37,500 to $500,000)

Marshall was the MAC school who earned that opportunity. Good on them.

Marshall fans fill up home games better than any MAC school. Marshall fans travel. They broke attendance records at places like Yager and the Glass Bowl. That inspired rivalries and hatred. That aces my definition of compelling.

I feel tons of nostalgia for it. I feel none for the days Temple brought 5-12 fans to road games.

Yea, Temple was a castoff basketball school that we took in for football only. Very much like UMass. I'd rather have had Marshall at that point. They had good reasons to leave, and I don't think they'd want to play 4 games on Tuesday nights so I can't see them wanting to come back.

Marshall was playing MAC midweek games before they left ... and I never heard of that being a reason - even a small reason - for why they left.

Again ... midweek games are NOT for the hoped for 20,000 in the stands. Midweek MAC games are for the 2-million watching on TV, give or take.

(04-21-2020 12:53 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-21-2020 12:40 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  I personally have much respect for the MAC, but what I don't get is why some of you MAC fans feel like you got cheated by Marshall moving on to CUSA. Let's look at the reasons Marshall and UCF were interested in moving to CUSA, at that specific time.

1. Money: TV money was non existent more or less, Marshall went from making 50K from TV revenue to 1.2 million.
2. Access to bowls (at that specific time). The MAC had 2 ties, CUSA had 5 in comparison.
3. The conference at that time did not aid any bowl team in covering the cost, when Marshall went bowling, it always put the school in the red.
4. CUSA make up was fairly attractive and considered the top G5 conference more years than not, even after the 2.0 version

These are the most obvious reasons Marshall left, and obviously things have changed dramatically for the MAC since then, in a good way. Given the current landscape I would say the MAC is the 3rd best G5 conference, sometimes the second, and money distribution certainly has changed since the Marshall days. Bowl tie in's increased by 2-3 times, depending on what year it is. If the landscape had been this way back in the early 2000s, I don't think Marshall would have left, but then again, CUSA back then was not what it is today either. I do miss the Toledo, Ohio, Miami, WMU games, even the Akron games. I would be an advocate for MU to return to the MAC if it came as a viable option. If the MAC really wanted to gut CUSA, they would make overtures to Marshall, MTSU, WKU. Those 3 are the core of the east division. Sometimes to survive, you have to think forward for conferences and schools alike.

It's pure jealousy. Any fact-based, objective analysis of that situation would conclude every MAC school would make the same move to further itself if given the opportunity.

Presidents aren't driven by emotion. They're driven by facts and money.

Where are those opportunities today?

-Big East no longer has FB.

-AAC makes 6 million more per school on TV. But they spend 20 million more.

The only thing that makes sense for a school of Marshall's size is to get into the MAC where it can save a few million on travel cost. Then try to dominate once in there.

Bowls in the MAC I'd argue are the best of the G5 conferences now.

(04-21-2020 12:40 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  I personally have much respect for the MAC, but what I don't get is why some of you MAC fans feel like you got cheated by Marshall moving on to CUSA. Let's look at the reasons Marshall and UCF were interested in moving to CUSA, at that specific time.

1. Money: TV money was non existent more or less, Marshall went from making 50K from TV revenue to 1.2 million.
2. Access to bowls (at that specific time). The MAC had 2 ties, CUSA had 5 in comparison.
3. The conference at that time did not aid any bowl team in covering the cost, when Marshall went bowling, it always put the school in the red.
4. CUSA make up was fairly attractive and considered the top G5 conference more years than not, even after the 2.0 version

These are the most obvious reasons Marshall left, and obviously things have changed dramatically for the MAC since then, in a good way. Given the current landscape I would say the MAC is the 3rd best G5 conference, sometimes the second, and money distribution certainly has changed since the Marshall days. Bowl tie in's increased by 2-3 times, depending on what year it is. If the landscape had been this way back in the early 2000s, I don't think Marshall would have left, but then again, CUSA back then was not what it is today either. I do miss the Toledo, Ohio, Miami, WMU games, even the Akron games. I would be an advocate for MU to return to the MAC if it came as a viable option. If the MAC really wanted to gut CUSA, they would make overtures to Marshall, MTSU, WKU. Those 3 are the core of the east division. Sometimes to survive, you have to think forward for conferences and schools alike.

I'm going to disagree with this a little.

In terms of stability, the MAC is #1 among G5 conferences. Hands down.

In terms of prestige, the MAC is probably third behind the AAC and MW. The MAC has very good schools across the board, including AAU member Buffalo and original "Public Ivy" Miami.

In terms of TV money, the MAC is also third behind the AAC and MW. The Sun Belt has an ever so slight edge over C-USA in terms of per-school TV money distributions.

As far as on-the-field goes, just about every year, #1 has been AAC. #2 has been the MW. The MAC, Sun Belt, and C-USA battle it out for the order of 3, 4, and 5. This past season, the MAC was #5. Everyone had at least 5 losses, and no one had more than 8 wins. The Sun Belt had two teams with 11 wins (App [13 wins] and Louisiana [11]). The year before, the Sun Belt had three teams with 10 wins. The Sun Belt has finished third in CFP distributions most years since the MAC sent WMU to the Cotton Bowl, meaning the MAC didn't finish as high as second or third.

(04-21-2020 02:53 PM)cleveland Wrote:  

(04-21-2020 02:41 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(04-21-2020 12:45 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-21-2020 10:50 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-20-2020 09:56 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  For me, the question of expansion is entirely dependent on if Marshall wants in. If Marshall doesn’t, there’s no discussion. If Marshall does, that program ...

... a long history of not being a good institutional fit with the MAC and of being a footloose school looking for the pasture that is greener on the other side of the fence.

Expansion past 12 requires a compelling add. Temple was genuinely compelling, if one accepts that the speed of the raids on the Big East leading them to wanting Temple back was not forseeable. Marshall was fool's gold.

Bruce, set emotions aside and look at things objectively.

Every single MAC school would take the opportunity to:
- affiliate with UCF, Memphis, SMU, & Houston (athletically)
- affiliate with Tulane & Rice (academically)
- triple their league's bowl slots (2 to 6)
- multiply their tv revenue by 13 ($37,500 to $500,000)

Marshall was the MAC school who earned that opportunity. Good on them.

Marshall fans fill up home games better than any MAC school. Marshall fans travel. They broke attendance records at places like Yager and the Glass Bowl. That inspired rivalries and hatred. That aces my definition of compelling.

I feel tons of nostalgia for it. I feel none for the days Temple brought 5-12 fans to road games.

Yea, Temple was a castoff basketball school that we took in for football only. Very much like UMass. I'd rather have had Marshall at that point. They had good reasons to leave, and I don't think they'd want to play 4 games on Tuesday nights so I can't see them wanting to come back.

Marshall was playing MAC midweek games before they left ... and I never heard of that being a reason - even a small reason - for why they left.

Again ... midweek games are NOT for the hoped for 20,000 in the stands. Midweek MAC games are for the 2-million watching on TV, give or take.

They were at most playing one game midweek. Not 4 like we have now. That's why it wasn't a reason for leaving. They aren't getting 2 million on TV either, even if on ESPN2. Many games are on ESPNU which have crummy ratings no matter who is playing.

(04-21-2020 12:45 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Every single MAC school would take the opportunity to:
- affiliate with UCF, Memphis, SMU, & Houston (athletically)
- affiliate with Tulane & Rice (academically)
- triple their league's bowl slots (2 to 6)
- multiply their tv revenue by 13 ($37,500 to $500,000)

…

Quote:It's pure jealousy. Any fact-based, objective analysis of that situation would conclude every MAC school would make the same move to further itself if given the opportunity.

The conference switch perhaps made more sense for Marshall given than Marshall had less history with the MAC and Herd fans seemed interested in regular games against those schools to the south. I can honestly say that I would not have wanted that change for Bowling Green. I suspect most MAC presidents would have taken a similar view.

(Once you factor in the cost of flying Marshall's volleyball team to El Paso and all that, the money was probably a wash.)

(04-21-2020 03:11 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-21-2020 12:53 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-21-2020 12:40 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  I personally have much respect for the MAC, but what I don't get is why some of you MAC fans feel like you got cheated by Marshall moving on to CUSA. Let's look at the reasons Marshall and UCF were interested in moving to CUSA, at that specific time.

1. Money: TV money was non existent more or less, Marshall went from making 50K from TV revenue to 1.2 million.
2. Access to bowls (at that specific time). The MAC had 2 ties, CUSA had 5 in comparison.
3. The conference at that time did not aid any bowl team in covering the cost, when Marshall went bowling, it always put the school in the red.
4. CUSA make up was fairly attractive and considered the top G5 conference more years than not, even after the 2.0 version

These are the most obvious reasons Marshall left, and obviously things have changed dramatically for the MAC since then, in a good way. Given the current landscape I would say the MAC is the 3rd best G5 conference, sometimes the second, and money distribution certainly has changed since the Marshall days. Bowl tie in's increased by 2-3 times, depending on what year it is. If the landscape had been this way back in the early 2000s, I don't think Marshall would have left, but then again, CUSA back then was not what it is today either. I do miss the Toledo, Ohio, Miami, WMU games, even the Akron games. I would be an advocate for MU to return to the MAC if it came as a viable option. If the MAC really wanted to gut CUSA, they would make overtures to Marshall, MTSU, WKU. Those 3 are the core of the east division. Sometimes to survive, you have to think forward for conferences and schools alike.

It's pure jealousy. Any fact-based, objective analysis of that situation would conclude every MAC school would make the same move to further itself if given the opportunity.

Presidents aren't driven by emotion. They're driven by facts and money.

Where are those opportunities today?

-Big East no longer has FB.

-AAC makes 6 million more per school on TV. But they spend 20 million more.

The only thing that makes sense for a school of Marshall's size is to get into the MAC where it can save a few million on travel cost. Then try to dominate once in there.

Bowls in the MAC I'd argue are the best of the G5 conferences now.

Yep. Things are drastically different today than when Marshall made the decision. CUSA was today's AAC, they were making 13x the tv revenue of the MAC (today they make less), the MAC only had 2 bowl slots back then, etc.

I think that's why the rumor from a longtime poster on Marshall's board of the administration considering the MAC is probably true. It'll be interesting if anything comes of it.

I thought it was a good move by Marshall at the time. CUSA was much more attractive back then. And like Schad said, their fans and administration wanted the more southern lean anyhow.

Not sure what their fans think now. There's probably still some lingering penchant for hitting the Florida/South circuit among its traveling base vs. sitting in near empty freezing MAC stadiums in November. The talent level of the two conferences are more aligned now, but with CUSA harboring higher costs of travel (and in the immediate COVID aftermath, that'll be more of an stinging issue for everyone).

We have the sequel in recent years, but with MAC fans - particularly NIU's - drooling at Miss AAC.

Which is understandable. But there's far less chance of the AAC poaching a MAC team because they are more concentrated on large urban areas. And let's face it, our attendances are a laughing stock compared to what most of their schools pull in.

But more importantly, the threat of the Big 12 looms out there. They have to be considering the options of Houston, Memphis, maybe both Florida schools, maybe Cincy, in their long-term plans. Once that happens, it's CUSA Lite all over again.

(04-21-2020 04:28 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-21-2020 03:11 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-21-2020 12:53 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-21-2020 12:40 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  I personally have much respect for the MAC, but what I don't get is why some of you MAC fans feel like you got cheated by Marshall moving on to CUSA. Let's look at the reasons Marshall and UCF were interested in moving to CUSA, at that specific time.

1. Money: TV money was non existent more or less, Marshall went from making 50K from TV revenue to 1.2 million.
2. Access to bowls (at that specific time). The MAC had 2 ties, CUSA had 5 in comparison.
3. The conference at that time did not aid any bowl team in covering the cost, when Marshall went bowling, it always put the school in the red.
4. CUSA make up was fairly attractive and considered the top G5 conference more years than not, even after the 2.0 version

These are the most obvious reasons Marshall left, and obviously things have changed dramatically for the MAC since then, in a good way. Given the current landscape I would say the MAC is the 3rd best G5 conference, sometimes the second, and money distribution certainly has changed since the Marshall days. Bowl tie in's increased by 2-3 times, depending on what year it is. If the landscape had been this way back in the early 2000s, I don't think Marshall would have left, but then again, CUSA back then was not what it is today either. I do miss the Toledo, Ohio, Miami, WMU games, even the Akron games. I would be an advocate for MU to return to the MAC if it came as a viable option. If the MAC really wanted to gut CUSA, they would make overtures to Marshall, MTSU, WKU. Those 3 are the core of the east division. Sometimes to survive, you have to think forward for conferences and schools alike.

It's pure jealousy. Any fact-based, objective analysis of that situation would conclude every MAC school would make the same move to further itself if given the opportunity.

Presidents aren't driven by emotion. They're driven by facts and money.

Where are those opportunities today?

-Big East no longer has FB.

-AAC makes 6 million more per school on TV. But they spend 20 million more.

The only thing that makes sense for a school of Marshall's size is to get into the MAC where it can save a few million on travel cost. Then try to dominate once in there.

Bowls in the MAC I'd argue are the best of the G5 conferences now.

Yep. Things are drastically different today than when Marshall made the decision. CUSA was today's AAC, they were making 13x the tv revenue of the MAC (today they make less), the MAC only had 2 bowl slots back then, etc.

I think that's why the rumor from a longtime poster on Marshall's board of the administration considering the MAC is probably true. It'll be interesting if anything comes of it.

If the rumors of Marshall considering the MAC are true, one thing is certain: Marshall wants out of C-USA as it currently exists. Clearly they must be unhappy if they are really considering returning to the league they left 15 years ago.

Beyond that, there are a few questions:

(1) Does the MAC have mutual interest? If not, it's all kind of a moo point. It's like a cow's opinion. It doesn't matter.

(2) Outside of an AAC invitation that will never come, what is Marshall's number one preference? I happen to think they would prefer a realigned, regionally sensible eastern G5 league made up mostly of current C-USA and Sun Belt teams such as WKU, App State, Old Dominion, and Ga. Southern. Marshall would probably want to take along a few buddies like Ohio, Miami, and Toledo, but there's no way they'd leave the MAC for anywhere but the AAC. Hoping for a new or realigned G5 league is a long shot; so, so much cooperation would be required among over 20 schools to pull that off. Which brings Marshall back to something more realistic: a return to the MAC.

I agree that the MAC is not the MAC of 15 years ago. Now there is actual television money and multiple bowl tie ins, but there are also multiple weeknight games.

It'll be interesting if anything comes of that rumor.

I have to say, if it wasn't for the Tues/Weds games, I'd LOVE for Marshall to go back to the MAC (unless we got invited to the AAC.)

The Tues/Weds night home games suck. I don't care to play away games on those nights, but that's it. The worst part about those games is ESPN always picks the best games to put on those nights. So we would play Toledo, NIU, or Western Michigan on a Tuesday night in front of 15k fans when we could have played them on a Saturday night with 28k fans.

That's a deal breaker for me personally, but I'm not the person making the decisions.

(04-21-2020 08:44 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  I have to say, if it wasn't for the Tues/Weds games, I'd LOVE for Marshall to go back to the MAC (unless we got invited to the AAC.)

The Tues/Weds night home games suck. I don't care to play away games on those nights, but that's it. The worst part about those games is ESPN always picks the best games to put on those nights. So we would play Toledo, NIU, or Western Michigan on a Tuesday night in front of 15k fans when we could have played them on a Saturday night with 28k fans.

That's a deal breaker for me personally, but I'm not the person making the decisions.

I do wonder, is it mandatory that each team in the MAC has to play 2 Tuesday night home games? I would be more on board with the idea if we are only talking 1 home game. I remember Marshall playing Toledo at home in 1999 on I believe a Thursday night. There was close to 28K-30K people there, and the Wednesday night games with Miami in the early 2000’s drew close to 27K, so I’m not sure that only 15K people would show up IF we have a good team. If the team sucks or is mediocre I don’t care if you play on a Saturday or Wednesday the attendance is going to suffer. I think we have seen enough proof of that over the last couple years. Overall I agree that 2 midweek home games is horrible, but I don’t know if it’s any more horrible than playing UTSA on Facebook on a Saturday with 5K people watching the stream.

(04-21-2020 04:28 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-21-2020 03:11 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-21-2020 12:53 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-21-2020 12:40 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  I personally have much respect for the MAC, but what I don't get is why some of you MAC fans feel like you got cheated by Marshall moving on to CUSA. Let's look at the reasons Marshall and UCF were interested in moving to CUSA, at that specific time.

1. Money: TV money was non existent more or less, Marshall went from making 50K from TV revenue to 1.2 million.
2. Access to bowls (at that specific time). The MAC had 2 ties, CUSA had 5 in comparison.
3. The conference at that time did not aid any bowl team in covering the cost, when Marshall went bowling, it always put the school in the red.
4. CUSA make up was fairly attractive and considered the top G5 conference more years than not, even after the 2.0 version

These are the most obvious reasons Marshall left, and obviously things have changed dramatically for the MAC since then, in a good way. Given the current landscape I would say the MAC is the 3rd best G5 conference, sometimes the second, and money distribution certainly has changed since the Marshall days. Bowl tie in's increased by 2-3 times, depending on what year it is. If the landscape had been this way back in the early 2000s, I don't think Marshall would have left, but then again, CUSA back then was not what it is today either. I do miss the Toledo, Ohio, Miami, WMU games, even the Akron games. I would be an advocate for MU to return to the MAC if it came as a viable option. If the MAC really wanted to gut CUSA, they would make overtures to Marshall, MTSU, WKU. Those 3 are the core of the east division. Sometimes to survive, you have to think forward for conferences and schools alike.

It's pure jealousy. Any fact-based, objective analysis of that situation would conclude every MAC school would make the same move to further itself if given the opportunity.

Presidents aren't driven by emotion. They're driven by facts and money.

Where are those opportunities today?

-Big East no longer has FB.

-AAC makes 6 million more per school on TV. But they spend 20 million more.

The only thing that makes sense for a school of Marshall's size is to get into the MAC where it can save a few million on travel cost. Then try to dominate once in there.

Bowls in the MAC I'd argue are the best of the G5 conferences now.

Yep. Things are drastically different today than when Marshall made the decision. CUSA was today's AAC, they were making 13x the tv revenue of the MAC (today they make less), the MAC only had 2 bowl slots back then, etc.

Also different was the coaching salaries in CUSA back then.

While CUSA was basically the AAC at the time the salaries at the time Marshall joined were in the ballpark of where the MAC is today. Travel was more but TV and NCAA distributions were enough to offset it.

Further they were thinking that CUSA still had a growth trajectory to someday become a BCS conference. They had the same voting rights as the BCS conferences in the management council.

I just think that as time wore on as a smaller FBS school Marshall was hard pressed to keep up with the increase spending of Houston, UCF, Memphis ect. The same problem any MAC school would have if they moved to the AAC.

Marshall has a Boise St style fanbase which is bigger than just those at the stadium. They can really travel to bowls and represent.