[quote='jedclampett' pid='16783807' dateline='1587185736']
[quote='MidknightWhiskey' pid='16782292' dateline='1587095116']
Tulsa's not long for the conference.[quote]

Unless someone from Tulsa confirms that they're "not long for the conference," the above conclusion may be unwarranted.

If they have an endowment of ~ $1 billion, they're more well endowed on a per student basis than most of the schools in the conference, since their enrollment is so small.

In fact, there are some very large AAC universities that don't have $1 billion endowments.

So what's the news? Their athletic dept. is in the red. But most D1 university athletic departments run in the red.

UConn's department is in much worse shape, and they're not dropping FB.

Tulsa knew the risks of joining the AAC 7 years ago, but they were prepared for the consequences. Even if they took a bigger hit than expected, they're about to get their first annual infusion of $7 million per year from the ESPN agreement.

With a billion dollar endowment and $7 mill/year Tulsa should be fine.
[/quote]

Their entire university is running a substantial deficit before any covid cuts. If this is due to their athletics alone then it’s much more in the red than the numbers mentioned to pull the entire university that far in the red. But I doubt it’s just on athletics.

(04-18-2020 12:19 AM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  [quote='jedclampett' pid='16783807' dateline='1587185736']
[quote='MidknightWhiskey' pid='16782292' dateline='1587095116']
Tulsa's not long for the conference.

Quote:Unless someone from Tulsa confirms that they're "not long for the conference," the above conclusion may be unwarranted.

If they have an endowment of ~ $1 billion, they're more well endowed on a per student basis than most of the schools in the conference, since their enrollment is so small.

In fact, there are some very large AAC universities that don't have $1 billion endowments.

So what's the news? Their athletic dept. is in the red. But most D1 university athletic departments run in the red.

UConn's department is in much worse shape, and they're not dropping FB.

Tulsa knew the risks of joining the AAC 7 years ago, but they were prepared for the consequences. Even if they took a bigger hit than expected, they're about to get their first annual infusion of $7 million per year from the ESPN agreement.

With a billion dollar endowment and $7 mill/year Tulsa should be fine.

Their entire university is running a substantial deficit before any covid cuts. If this is due to their athletics alone then it’s much more in the red than the numbers mentioned to pull the entire university that far in the red. But I doubt it’s just on athletics.

It's really not athletics at all. If anything Athletics will be a net neutral or a small positive from what we've had in the past once we get that 7 million dollar check.

What's really been the problem was that during early 2010's we built: 2 new engineering department buildings, a new dormitory, a large performing arts building, remodeled the student union, remodeled the main engineering building, opened a small medical college and were put in charge of a local museum that has become a monetary weight. Then the oil bust hit and we had donors who had promised funds who's checks basically bounced or they backed out of commitments leaving the school hanging. Add to that the fact that international student populations across the country have begun shrinking and the number of petroleum related degree seekers declined by 100's of percentages and you have some financial issues. The university will survive because we have a massive endowment. The Athletic program will survive because it brings provides a unique atmosphere to the university compared to surrounding universities in the area (ORU) and it pretty much pays for itself.

I’ve read this entire thread and it sounds like Tulsa’s athletic department is running a deficit... hmm...

I like having Tulsa in the American. As long-time Memphis and Cincy fan ... I fondly recall the MVC days.

I wish the university well in getting its financial house in order.

Amen, me too.

****, ECU is about 2 trillion in debt. No worries, it's the American Way!

(04-18-2020 01:02 AM)invisiblehand Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 12:19 AM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  [quote='jedclampett' pid='16783807' dateline='1587185736']
[quote='MidknightWhiskey' pid='16782292' dateline='1587095116']
Tulsa's not long for the conference.

Quote:Unless someone from Tulsa confirms that they're "not long for the conference," the above conclusion may be unwarranted.

If they have an endowment of ~ $1 billion, they're more well endowed on a per student basis than most of the schools in the conference, since their enrollment is so small.

In fact, there are some very large AAC universities that don't have $1 billion endowments.

So what's the news? Their athletic dept. is in the red. But most D1 university athletic departments run in the red.

UConn's department is in much worse shape, and they're not dropping FB.

Tulsa knew the risks of joining the AAC 7 years ago, but they were prepared for the consequences. Even if they took a bigger hit than expected, they're about to get their first annual infusion of $7 million per year from the ESPN agreement.

With a billion dollar endowment and $7 mill/year Tulsa should be fine.

Their entire university is running a substantial deficit before any covid cuts. If this is due to their athletics alone then it’s much more in the red than the numbers mentioned to pull the entire university that far in the red. But I doubt it’s just on athletics.

It's really not athletics at all. If anything Athletics will be a net neutral or a small positive from what we've had in the past once we get that 7 million dollar check.

What's really been the problem was that during early 2010's we built: 2 new engineering department buildings, a new dormitory, a large performing arts building, remodeled the student union, remodeled the main engineering building, opened a small medical college and were put in charge of a local museum that has become a monetary weight. Then the oil bust hit and we had donors who had promised funds who's checks basically bounced or they backed out of commitments leaving the school hanging. Add to that the fact that international student populations across the country have begun shrinking and the number of petroleum related degree seekers declined by 100's of percentages and you have some financial issues. The university will survive because we have a massive endowment. The Athletic program will survive because it brings provides a unique atmosphere to the university compared to surrounding universities in the area (ORU) and it pretty much pays for itself.

You can stop Invisible, this has been explained numerous times, the little Knights with their huge student fees don't want understand, much like they ignore their horrible record against little ol Tulsa in football.

Tulsa with the new media contract will be sitting in the around 1m profit margin for athletics with some of the lowest student fees in the nation.

Tulsa was losing roughly 2m a year 7 years ago, recently the number has been closer to a million or a little less annually, most of which is actually cooked numbers for the new university plan Clancy tries to force through. Another words we could run that 2m deficit for 50 years and just drop below the 1 billion endowment (yes I know that is not how it actually works) we would hardly be in the poor house.

The issues mentioned directly relate to available finances (i.e. not tied to the endowment) at any given moment, since Tulsa doesn't have a sugar daddy state budget backing it up, it must live within its means, meaning with out accessing its savings. That is what the changes and plans of the last two years are suppose to do, put us back to living on our budget. Tulsa will be fine as it always has and will live within its budget, that our athletics are now a positioned to be profitable and we can eliminate student fees is a huge positive not a negative.

Part ways with Tulsa Football and American can play 9 game conference schedule like Big 12. We've already got the waiver.

Old Dominion gets me more excited than Tulsa.

I think one of the reasons Tulsa is in is to balance the conference geographically and help UH and SMU. Maybe more relevant for non football sports.

(04-18-2020 07:14 PM)Knightrogen Wrote:  Part ways with Tulsa Football and American can play 9 game conference schedule like Big 12. We've already got the waiver.

Old Dominion gets me more excited than Tulsa.

Maybe Old Dominion gets you more excited because your revenue sports have a losing record vs Tulsa?

Btw, UCF men's basketball and football both have never won a game at Tulsa. Ever.

(04-18-2020 09:18 AM)owl at the moon Wrote:  I’ve read this entire thread and it sounds like Tulsa’s athletic department is running a deficit... hmm...

Aren't most A.D'.s running a deficit?

(04-18-2020 08:52 PM)Hurricane Drummer Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 09:18 AM)owl at the moon Wrote:  I’ve read this entire thread and it sounds like Tulsa’s athletic department is running a deficit... hmm...

Aren't most A.D'.s running a deficit?

Especially Rice

(04-18-2020 12:39 PM)8BitPirate Wrote:  ****, ECU is about 2 trillion in debt. No worries, it's the American Way!

Explain this. Trillion?

(04-18-2020 09:12 PM)chess Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 12:39 PM)8BitPirate Wrote:  ****, ECU is about 2 trillion in debt. No worries, it's the American Way!

Explain this. Trillion?

Unfortunately he keeps trying to bring politics onto a sports board

(04-18-2020 07:14 PM)Knightrogen Wrote:  Part ways with Tulsa Football and American can play 9 game conference schedule like Big 12. We've already got the waiver.

Old Dominion gets me more excited than Tulsa.

there is no "waiver" for the Big 12

the waiver for the aac is to play in divisions with an unbalanced schedule and have a CCG with the two best teams

without the waiver they would need to find a way to have a CCG with unbalanced schedules and division winners

as for people talking about a $1 billion dollar endowment that will only throw off about $50 million per year on average so it is not going to magically cover up for a $20 million dollar deficit that is AFTER endowment payouts are included

and with 4.350 students and an average tuition of $41,500 that means $180,500,000 a year in tuition revenue so that endowment is throwing off about 20% of the university budget it is not some massive slush fund of endless money that can be tapped even to cover deficits of tens of millions especially multi-year deficits like those

I would imaging Tulsa will come out of this just fine though on the long run they could cover a lot of that deficit with a slightly higher enrollment that would come at little or no cost in administration and only a slight cost in faculty if you bump up the student to faculty ratio a bit

(04-18-2020 09:42 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 07:14 PM)Knightrogen Wrote:  Part ways with Tulsa Football and American can play 9 game conference schedule like Big 12. We've already got the waiver.

Old Dominion gets me more excited than Tulsa.

there is no "waiver" for the Big 12

the waiver for the aac is to play in divisions with an unbalanced schedule and have a CCG with the two best teams

without the waiver they would need to find a way to have a CCG with unbalanced schedules and division winners

as for people talking about a $1 billion dollar endowment that will only throw off about $50 million per year on average so it is not going to magically cover up for a $20 million dollar deficit that is AFTER endowment payouts are included

and with 4.350 students and an average tuition of $41,500 that means $180,500,000 a year in tuition revenue so that endowment is throwing off about 20% of the university budget it is not some massive slush fund of endless money that can be tapped even to cover deficits of tens of millions especially multi-year deficits like those

I would imaging Tulsa will come out of this just fine though on the long run they could cover a lot of that deficit with a slightly higher enrollment that would come at little or no cost in administration and only a slight cost in faculty if you bump up the student to faculty ratio a bit

Good God Todge is here, are you all happy?

I blame this on BC#1's absence.

Let me just repeat this is part of an internal struggle for the future of the school; trust the numbers produced at your own risk. One of the biggest complaints is that the numbers used are inaccurate for various reasons, both of the main sides have accused the other of fudging. The deficit is concerning if it is present, but the course correction was made two years ago to bring the budget back into balance. It is cause for concern if nothing was done and the long term the situation continued or worsened.

(04-18-2020 04:13 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 01:02 AM)invisiblehand Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 12:19 AM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  [quote='jedclampett' pid='16783807' dateline='1587185736']
[quote='MidknightWhiskey' pid='16782292' dateline='1587095116']
Tulsa's not long for the conference.

Quote:Unless someone from Tulsa confirms that they're "not long for the conference," the above conclusion may be unwarranted.

If they have an endowment of ~ $1 billion, they're more well endowed on a per student basis than most of the schools in the conference, since their enrollment is so small.

In fact, there are some very large AAC universities that don't have $1 billion endowments.

So what's the news? Their athletic dept. is in the red. But most D1 university athletic departments run in the red.

UConn's department is in much worse shape, and they're not dropping FB.

Tulsa knew the risks of joining the AAC 7 years ago, but they were prepared for the consequences. Even if they took a bigger hit than expected, they're about to get their first annual infusion of $7 million per year from the ESPN agreement.

With a billion dollar endowment and $7 mill/year Tulsa should be fine.

Their entire university is running a substantial deficit before any covid cuts. If this is due to their athletics alone then it’s much more in the red than the numbers mentioned to pull the entire university that far in the red. But I doubt it’s just on athletics.

It's really not athletics at all. If anything Athletics will be a net neutral or a small positive from what we've had in the past once we get that 7 million dollar check.

What's really been the problem was that during early 2010's we built: 2 new engineering department buildings, a new dormitory, a large performing arts building, remodeled the student union, remodeled the main engineering building, opened a small medical college and were put in charge of a local museum that has become a monetary weight. Then the oil bust hit and we had donors who had promised funds who's checks basically bounced or they backed out of commitments leaving the school hanging. Add to that the fact that international student populations across the country have begun shrinking and the number of petroleum related degree seekers declined by 100's of percentages and you have some financial issues. The university will survive because we have a massive endowment. The Athletic program will survive because it brings provides a unique atmosphere to the university compared to surrounding universities in the area (ORU) and it pretty much pays for itself.

You can stop Invisible, this has been explained numerous times, the little Knights with their huge student fees don't want understand, much like they ignore their horrible record against little ol Tulsa in football.

Tulsa with the new media contract will be sitting in the around 1m profit margin for athletics with some of the lowest student fees in the nation.

Tulsa was losing roughly 2m a year 7 years ago, recently the number has been closer to a million or a little less annually, most of which is actually cooked numbers for the new university plan Clancy tries to force through. Another words we could run that 2m deficit for 50 years and just drop below the 1 billion endowment (yes I know that is not how it actually works) we would hardly be in the poor house.

The issues mentioned directly relate to available finances (i.e. not tied to the endowment) at any given moment, since Tulsa doesn't have a sugar daddy state budget backing it up, it must live within its means, meaning with out accessing its savings. That is what the changes and plans of the last two years are suppose to do, put us back to living on our budget. Tulsa will be fine as it always has and will live within its budget, that our athletics are now a positioned to be profitable and we can eliminate student fees is a huge positive not a negative.

The article mentioned a $14-20 million deficit before any of the projected covid losses. Yes while your endowment will keep Tulsa from the “poor house” it will not be opened up to athletics. The opposite actually, Tulsa has publicly said that the tv money from the new contract will go to the university and not the athletics department. A university having a large endowment doesn’t mean they’ll be able to be successful in FBS football, Ivy League schools have a much larger endowment and don’t attempt to compete at this level.
Also I imagine student fees mean nothing to Tulsa with their enrollment being somewhere between 3k and 4k. That enrollment is the smallest in all the FBS and as a private institution it won’t receive state funding. It’s obvious athletics is not a priority for Tulsa, running at a deficit will only exacerbate this. I think the covid situation will provide the excuse a lot of programs need to drop levels in athletics.

Tulsa has too much great history as a D1 football school to just drop football. Plus the conference TV payout is the best Tulsa's ever had. I think they will be fine.

(04-19-2020 01:57 AM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 04:13 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 01:02 AM)invisiblehand Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 12:19 AM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  [quote='jedclampett' pid='16783807' dateline='1587185736']
[quote='MidknightWhiskey' pid='16782292' dateline='1587095116']
Tulsa's not long for the conference.

Quote:Unless someone from Tulsa confirms that they're "not long for the conference," the above conclusion may be unwarranted.

If they have an endowment of ~ $1 billion, they're more well endowed on a per student basis than most of the schools in the conference, since their enrollment is so small.

In fact, there are some very large AAC universities that don't have $1 billion endowments.

So what's the news? Their athletic dept. is in the red. But most D1 university athletic departments run in the red.

UConn's department is in much worse shape, and they're not dropping FB.

Tulsa knew the risks of joining the AAC 7 years ago, but they were prepared for the consequences. Even if they took a bigger hit than expected, they're about to get their first annual infusion of $7 million per year from the ESPN agreement.

With a billion dollar endowment and $7 mill/year Tulsa should be fine.

Their entire university is running a substantial deficit before any covid cuts. If this is due to their athletics alone then it’s much more in the red than the numbers mentioned to pull the entire university that far in the red. But I doubt it’s just on athletics.

It's really not athletics at all. If anything Athletics will be a net neutral or a small positive from what we've had in the past once we get that 7 million dollar check.

What's really been the problem was that during early 2010's we built: 2 new engineering department buildings, a new dormitory, a large performing arts building, remodeled the student union, remodeled the main engineering building, opened a small medical college and were put in charge of a local museum that has become a monetary weight. Then the oil bust hit and we had donors who had promised funds who's checks basically bounced or they backed out of commitments leaving the school hanging. Add to that the fact that international student populations across the country have begun shrinking and the number of petroleum related degree seekers declined by 100's of percentages and you have some financial issues. The university will survive because we have a massive endowment. The Athletic program will survive because it brings provides a unique atmosphere to the university compared to surrounding universities in the area (ORU) and it pretty much pays for itself.

You can stop Invisible, this has been explained numerous times, the little Knights with their huge student fees don't want understand, much like they ignore their horrible record against little ol Tulsa in football.

Tulsa with the new media contract will be sitting in the around 1m profit margin for athletics with some of the lowest student fees in the nation.

Tulsa was losing roughly 2m a year 7 years ago, recently the number has been closer to a million or a little less annually, most of which is actually cooked numbers for the new university plan Clancy tries to force through. Another words we could run that 2m deficit for 50 years and just drop below the 1 billion endowment (yes I know that is not how it actually works) we would hardly be in the poor house.

The issues mentioned directly relate to available finances (i.e. not tied to the endowment) at any given moment, since Tulsa doesn't have a sugar daddy state budget backing it up, it must live within its means, meaning with out accessing its savings. That is what the changes and plans of the last two years are suppose to do, put us back to living on our budget. Tulsa will be fine as it always has and will live within its budget, that our athletics are now a positioned to be profitable and we can eliminate student fees is a huge positive not a negative.

The article mentioned a $14-20 million deficit before any of the projected covid losses. Yes while your endowment will keep Tulsa from the “poor house” it will not be opened up to athletics. The opposite actually, Tulsa has publicly said that the tv money from the new contract will go to the university and not the athletics department. A university having a large endowment doesn’t mean they’ll be able to be successful in FBS football, Ivy League schools have a much larger endowment and don’t attempt to compete at this level.
Also I imagine student fees mean nothing to Tulsa with their enrollment being somewhere between 3k and 4k. That enrollment is the smallest in all the FBS and as a private institution it won’t receive state funding. It’s obvious athletics is not a priority for Tulsa, running at a deficit will only exacerbate this. I think the covid situation will provide the excuse a lot of programs need to drop levels in athletics.

Poor UCF, getting their ass beat on the field and the court, in the class, and in their endowment by little old Tulsa has them imagining a fantasy world where they don't have to play us.

I told you this last year when you first started spouting off at the mouth, it's been told to you here in this thread. Tulsa runs its Athletic department very close to paying for itself. With almost no subsidies, that's per capita or overall, we only have a few students and we charge almost nothing for athletics.The media money will close the gap and put Tulsa into profit for athletics, that is how the money goes back to the school.

14-20 million debt over 7 years is just more than 2m a year. Our endowment is fine, our school finances are fine, our athletic finances are fine. We live on a budget and had to adjust.

Now UCF with huge athletic fees, in a state about to suffer a major recession (which always leads to funding cuts), and will likely see fewer students, is who I would be worried about. In fact I would be concerned about any school who was running a large portion of their athletics on student fees and debt. That gravy train is over.

Tulsa reporting their financial strains publicly also cements their run down facilities will see no improvements.

Nice knowing you, Tulsa