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Basketball Programs Ranked
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GE and MTS Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked
(07-04-2020 08:37 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  In our downtime, I thought it would be fun to see where we as a conference stood as far as our basketball pedigree. I used https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/ for the information, which uses Division I data only (sorry Bellarmine. Maybe next year.). Disclaimer: These are just how I view it so feel free to share your opinions! I also started this prior to NJIT leaving so I'll keep them in there.

1. Jacksonville
2. Florida Gulf Coast
3. Liberty
4. Lipscomb
5. North Florida
6. New Jersey Institute of Technology
7. Stetson
8. Kennesaw State
9. North Alabama
10. Bellarmine

With some additions and subtractions made to the conference (along with some strongly rumored ones), I think I'll update my list to see where they fit in. Again, my analysis is a historical look instead of right now so while Florida Gulf Coast may be near the bottom this season, that really doesn't hurt them overall as nobody else is likely to make a Sweet Sixteen or better that would really vault them above FGCU.

Having said that, I'll start with the 100% confirmed and move to the probables.

Central Arkansas Bears

We'll start with the first confirmed school, or alphabetically, whichever you prefer. Central Arkansas has been full Division I since 2010, which they have won approximately 30% of their games since then. They have never made the NCAA tournament, never won a conference championship in the regular season or tournament, and have never been ranked. They did make the CBI once, winning a game, but has otherwise been just a bad program as that was their only winning season.

It's tough to determine where they fall in the overall history of the ASUN. According to my arbitrary rankings, I would put them just below Kennesaw State and above North Alabama for the moment. With UNA's performance this season, they could easily jump up a few spots in the coming years if they keep it up and UCA and KSU continue to be poor. UCA and KSU also need to lookout for Bellarmine as well.

Eastern Kentucky Colonels

The Eastern Kentucky Colonels bring a lot of good history to the conference that others just don't have. With over 930 wins in program history, they are over 150 more wins than any ASUN program. Not only that, they bring 7 regular season conference championships (over double the next closest at 3) and 5 conference tournament championships (one more than the next highest of Liberty).

As impressive as all of that is, EKU really shines when you look at their 8 NCAA tournament appearances, meaning they earned at-large bids (unless someone else knows something I don't) and they have been ranked for a total of 6 weeks in the AP poll (highest rank was #15); only one other ASUN school was ever ranked. Jacksonville. However, despite all these things that have been going well for them, they have yet to win an NCAA tournament game. Though they've never been a high seed, they have never had a classic upset to make it one round further. This is what hurts the Colonels the most in my ranking, and why they are just below FGCU instead of above them. Making a Sweet Sixteen as FGCU did is just insanely good that I think makes up for the rest that EKU has over them.

Jacksonville State

The Jacksonville State Gamecocks return to the ASUN after almost 20 seasons away. Their total wins are over 330 put them 5th in the conference. Despite being around for much longer than most ASUN programs, they only won one conference championship (a tournament win, no regular season wins) in those 26 seasons. They made the NCAA tournament that season, losing immediately which is to be expected from anyone in their position. With their relatively long history, that builds them up a cushion that others will need to overcome, giving JSU a solid floor in my rankings. However, they should have more conference championships in all their time, and thus more NCAA tournament appearances. I put JSU right below Lipscomb and North Florida who have less overall wins but three regular season conference championships that JSU doesn't have (and matches their one tournament championship and NCAA tournament appearance).

1. Jacksonville
2. Florida Gulf Coast
3. Eastern Kentucky
4. Liberty
5. Lipscomb
6. North Florida
7. Jacksonville State
8. Stetson
9. Kennesaw State
10. Central Arkansas
11. North Alabama
12. Bellarmine
01-31-2021 10:05 PM
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BellarmineGrad Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked
To be fair, D-II success, facilities, and support/fan base should count for something if doing an overall ranking of programs (admittedly, yours truly is more than a little biased); of course, that's fairly subjective, so it might be better to just not include the programs new to D-I.

Surely any ranking, even "historical," should have, say, Bellarmine and North Alabama above Kennesaw (and possibly one or more others) in hoops.

I agree that EKU brings a lot and am excited for what the future holds for the conference.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2021 01:20 AM by BellarmineGrad.)
01-31-2021 10:32 PM
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whupemall Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked
(01-31-2021 10:05 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  Jacksonville State

The Jacksonville State Gamecocks return to the ASUN after almost 20 seasons away. Their total wins are over 330 put them 5th in the conference. Despite being around for much longer than most ASUN programs, they only won one conference championship (a tournament win, no regular season wins) in those 26 seasons. They made the NCAA tournament that season, losing immediately which is to be expected from anyone in their position. With their relatively long history, that builds them up a cushion that others will need to overcome, giving JSU a solid floor in my rankings. However, they should have more conference championships in all their time, and thus more NCAA tournament appearances.

This -- especially the sentence I've emphasized in boldface -- is 100% correct.

JSU was a D-II powerhouse throughout the 80s and early 90s. We won one national title (1985) but made regular appearances in the D-II tournament, including a trip to the Elite Eight in 1991-92, our penultimate season in D-II.

It was expected that our basketball team would continue to produce at the next level, after the usual growing pains.

Instead, our early years in the TAAC were mediocre at best.

What happened?

Well, JSU's athletic leadership at the time (including several trustees) were complete and total morons.

They fired Coach Jones (the architect behind our D-II success) because he was unable to win in D-I with the same facilities and same coaching & recruiting budget he had in D-II.

Even though they screwed Coach Jones, they brought in an excellent replacement, Mark Turgeon. Coach Turgeon was given a higher budget (because of course!) and was able to turn in a 17-win season in his second year. After following that up with another middling year, he was hired away by the deeper pockets at Wichita State. (He's now at Maryland.)

After that, our athletic department entered an era of further incompetence and greater complacency.

We had two coaches who stayed nearly a decade each, despite averaging only 11-12 wins a season and never winning a championship. Despite our D-II success, the thinking was, "JSU just isn't in a good area for basketball. We should be happy with the rare 15-20 win season. That's as good as it will ever get in D-I."

It was only after our current AD Greg Seitz was hired that this defeatist attitude changed.

When Seitz was finally in a position to make a hire, he brought in Ray Harper, who averaged 20 wins per season in his first four years, including our only conference championship. (So far this season, the Gamecocks are 10-6 with 10 games remaining.)

Our mindset as a university has changed from the ultimate goal of "winning 15 games and making the conference tournament" to "winning the conference and making it back to the Dance." No one is happy with a 15-win season anymore.

All this to say that while JSU's decades of D-I mediocrity are certainly a thing, it's not where we choose to remain. In basketball (as well as football) we were an example of how NOT to make the transition from D-II to D-I. I like to believe we've learned our lesson.
02-02-2021 12:22 PM
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EKUSteve Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked
EKU has never earned an at-large bid. We got in the Dance when we won the conference tournament. Big drought from 79 to our next appearance in 2005. Lost to UK by 8. 2007 got in and lost to UNC by 21 after getting down 27 in the first half and closing it to 4 with 16 min left. 2014 was our last appearance losing to Kansas by 11.
02-02-2021 12:49 PM
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army56mike Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked
MENS BASKETBALL

KENPOM
102. Liberty
166. Belarmine
172. EKU
181. Jax St.
222. Lipscomb
245. Stetson
261. FGCU
298. North Florida
301. North Alabama
307. Jax
331. C. Ark
347. Kennesaw St.

NET RANKINGS
93. Liberty
160. EKU
162. Bellarmine
178. Jax St.
224. Lipscomb
263. Stetson
264. FGCU
301. North Florida
305. Jax
306. North Alabama
328. C. Ark
338. Kennesaw St.

This is pretty brutal. I am sorry Liberty hasn’t carried our share of the weight this year. The Flames should be in the Top 25% of teams nationally.
02-15-2021 02:07 PM
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army56mike Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked
WOMENS BASKETBALL

NET
40. FGCU
113. Jax St.
133. Liberty
217. EKU
242. North Florida
260. North Alabama
269. C. Ark
273. Lipscomb
291. Stetson
311. Kennesaw St.
324. Bellarmine
328. Jax
02-15-2021 02:15 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked
(02-15-2021 02:07 PM)army56mike Wrote:  MENS BASKETBALL

KENPOM
102. Liberty
166. Belarmine
172. EKU
181. Jax St.
222. Lipscomb
245. Stetson
261. FGCU
298. North Florida
301. North Alabama
307. Jax
331. C. Ark
347. Kennesaw St.

NET RANKINGS
93. Liberty
160. EKU
162. Bellarmine
178. Jax St.
224. Lipscomb
263. Stetson
264. FGCU
301. North Florida
305. Jax
306. North Alabama
328. C. Ark
338. Kennesaw St.

This is pretty brutal. I am sorry Liberty hasn’t carried our share of the weight this year. The Flames should be in the Top 25% of teams nationally.

I don't think Liberty has to apologize for being in the top position in the conference. Winning against bad competition doesn't raise our rankings and any close games or losses would really hurt (and has).
02-15-2021 02:46 PM
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lion1983 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked
(02-15-2021 02:07 PM)army56mike Wrote:  MENS BASKETBALL

KENPOM
102. Liberty
166. Belarmine
172. EKU
181. Jax St.
222. Lipscomb
245. Stetson
261. FGCU
298. North Florida
301. North Alabama
307. Jax
331. C. Ark
347. Kennesaw St.

NET RANKINGS
93. Liberty
160. EKU
162. Bellarmine
178. Jax St.
224. Lipscomb
263. Stetson
264. FGCU
301. North Florida
305. Jax
306. North Alabama
328. C. Ark
338. Kennesaw St.

This is pretty brutal. I am sorry Liberty hasn’t carried our share of the weight this year. The Flames should be in the Top 25% of teams nationally.

Liberty is carrying more than the rest...

Hopefully UNA will move up before to long...
02-15-2021 04:37 PM
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army56mike Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked
Carrying more than the rest is meaningless if the bar is so low.
The bar must be high, and we’re not quite there yet.
02-15-2021 06:58 PM
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lion1983 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked
(02-15-2021 06:58 PM)army56mike Wrote:  Carrying more than the rest is meaningless if the bar is so low.
The bar must be high, and we’re not quite there yet.

Well, your right, but if we were all in the top 125, I'd take it right now.
02-15-2021 08:26 PM
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