They made a BIG mistake going to CUSA.

https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/colle...ZCEZK23KD0

Yep - but I thought that they had passed us by and JMU was stupid for monitoring?

To be fair, college athletics in general are in trouble. ODU got caught leveraged and is facing a margin call. They may be the first, they won’t be the last.

JMU is probably not much better off if revenue sports get canceled.

JMU gets a lot of money towards athletics from student fees and probably relies less on revenue (pay days) etc than others. We also don’t spend like drunk sailors and we’re in a regional bus league so I think we’ll be better positioned to weather this than many others will be.

(04-03-2020 09:36 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  To be fair, college athletics in general are in trouble. ODU got caught leveraged and is facing a margin call. They may be the first, they won’t be the last.

JMU is probably not much better off if revenue sports get canceled.

Agreed. It isn't like ODU could see COVID-19 on the horizon all those years ago. They did the right thing back then. They jumped while we monitored. This is going to hurt every institution.

I know it was infuriating at the time, but it does appear that JMU made the right decision. It's pretty likely that we could have been facing the same financial problems ODU is facing right now.

I agree that all schools are going to take a hit, but this seems like especially bad timing for ODU - trying to establish themselves in a far flung FBS conference, trying to expand their stadium, cutting sports....

And all those corporate donations from those big Hampton Roads corporations may be in a bit of jeopardy going forward.

(04-03-2020 10:50 PM)POTUS#4 Wrote:  I agree that all schools are going to take a hit, but this seems like especially bad timing for ODU - trying to establish themselves in a far flung FBS conference, trying to expand their stadium, cutting sports....

And all those corporate donations from those big Hampton Roads corporations may be in a bit of jeopardy going forward.

Exactly. And don’t forget ODU took a big hit last year too because they missed their enrollment targets (which impacted ODU’s athletic budget by a net reduction of around $800k). Compounding that issue with the potential cancellation of both football and basketball seasons, and their athletic budget supporting their non-revenue sports is going to get very ugly. Eliminating their historic men’s wrestling program is just the first to fall, and Title IX is going to wreck further damage. Glad JMU isn’t facing those problems.

It would be ironic indeed if ODU decided to dump CUSA and rejoin the CAA. Not likely to happen, but ODU is now facing serious fundraising challenges to raise millions to prop up a craptastic G5 FB program in a 1-bid MBB conference that requires extraordinary travel expenses to play teams that are not natural rivals to ODU. We’ve all been curious about when, where and how the next conference shake-up occurs, and the impact of covid-19 may just be the straw that breaks apart a G5 conference like CUSA.

(04-04-2020 03:42 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 10:50 PM)POTUS#4 Wrote:  I agree that all schools are going to take a hit, but this seems like especially bad timing for ODU - trying to establish themselves in a far flung FBS conference, trying to expand their stadium, cutting sports....

And all those corporate donations from those big Hampton Roads corporations may be in a bit of jeopardy going forward.

Exactly. And don’t forget ODU took a big hit last year too because they missed their enrollment targets (which impacted ODU’s athletic budget by a net reduction of around $800k). Compounding that issue with the potential cancellation of both football and basketball seasons, and their athletic budget supporting their non-revenue sports is going to get very ugly. Eliminating their historic men’s wrestling program is just the first to fall, and Title IX is going to wreck further damage. Glad JMU isn’t facing those problems.

It would be ironic indeed if ODU decided to dump CUSA and rejoin the CAA. Not likely to happen, but ODU is now facing serious fundraising challenges to raise millions to prop up a craptastic G5 FB program in a 1-bid MBB conference that requires extraordinary travel expenses to play teams that are not natural rivals to ODU. We’ve all been curious about when, where and how the next conference shake-up occurs, and the impact of covid-19 may just be the straw that breaks apart a G5 conference like CUSA.

Agree with most of your thoughts here, but JMU also canceled a very competitive wrestling program and dealt with Title IX challenges as well. Only 75 D1 wrestling programs remain, its sort of the nature of the beast with D1 athletics and Title IX.

I do think this will add to pressure for geographically oriented FBS conferences to be formed at the G5 level. It also has the potential to wipe out much of FCS and some G5 programs. That has led to quite a bit of speculation about the fallout, including articles like this one https://herosports.com/college-football/...erger-ahah

One of the findings in this report was that ODU should invest more heavily in revenue producing sports (primarily basketball, but also football) and cut back other areas. This is something JMU may one day need to consider as well. When times get tough, you need to maximize revenue generation.

(04-04-2020 04:15 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 03:42 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 10:50 PM)POTUS#4 Wrote:  I agree that all schools are going to take a hit, but this seems like especially bad timing for ODU - trying to establish themselves in a far flung FBS conference, trying to expand their stadium, cutting sports....

And all those corporate donations from those big Hampton Roads corporations may be in a bit of jeopardy going forward.

Exactly. And don’t forget ODU took a big hit last year too because they missed their enrollment targets (which impacted ODU’s athletic budget by a net reduction of around $800k). Compounding that issue with the potential cancellation of both football and basketball seasons, and their athletic budget supporting their non-revenue sports is going to get very ugly. Eliminating their historic men’s wrestling program is just the first to fall, and Title IX is going to wreck further damage. Glad JMU isn’t facing those problems.

It would be ironic indeed if ODU decided to dump CUSA and rejoin the CAA. Not likely to happen, but ODU is now facing serious fundraising challenges to raise millions to prop up a craptastic G5 FB program in a 1-bid MBB conference that requires extraordinary travel expenses to play teams that are not natural rivals to ODU. We’ve all been curious about when, where and how the next conference shake-up occurs, and the impact of covid-19 may just be the straw that breaks apart a G5 conference like CUSA.

Agree with most of your thoughts here, but JMU also canceled a very competitive wrestling program and dealt with Title IX challenges as well. Only 75 D1 wrestling programs remain, its sort of the nature of the beast with D1 athletics and Title IX.

I do think this will add to pressure for geographically oriented FBS conferences to be formed at the G5 level. It also has the potential to wipe out much of FCS and some G5 programs. That has led to quite a bit of speculation about the fallout, including articles like this one https://herosports.com/college-football/...erger-ahah

One of the findings in this report was that ODU should invest more heavily in revenue producing sports (primarily basketball, but also football) and cut back other areas. This is something JMU may one day need to consider as well. When times get tough, you need to maximize revenue generation.

JMU eliminated wrestling? And men’s swimming? Yes, they’re gone...when did that happen? Well over a decade ago? Closer to two decades ago? I can’t see any similarities to ODU’s situation given today’s financial news.

JMU made the moves to cut sports long ago (and while they were controversial) the effort was motivated by a strategic decision to consolidate and strengthen its varsity sports while meeting Title IX guidelines. ODU is being forced to make cuts because the financial wolf is at the door, all due in part because ODU decided to prematurely jump to fund 85 scholarships to play FBS level FB. Because of the Cox bill ODU can’t cover the extra costs by hiking student fees, and what student fees they have been collecting are impacted by enrollment problems.

JMU is not leveraged or funded the way ODU is relative to paying for their varsity sports. The impact on enrollment (and thus income from student fees) may impact JMU’s athletic budget. Pay particular attention to whether JMU’s enrollment meets its targeted goals this Fall (and beyond).

WHERE IS DUKEMAN?

(04-03-2020 10:13 PM)Purple Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 09:36 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  To be fair, college athletics in general are in trouble. ODU got caught leveraged and is facing a margin call. They may be the first, they won’t be the last.

JMU is probably not much better off if revenue sports get canceled.

Agreed. It isn't like ODU could see COVID-19 on the horizon all those years ago. They did the right thing back then. They jumped while we monitored. This is going to hurt every institution.

The commission that they did prior to this decision was pre corona and based on pre corona challenges and athletics program losses. The timing may have been accelerated but they were on shaky ground to begin with. There is some mention of some of the better programs in Cusa leaving and that impact Revenues etc but didn’t those programs leave to create the opportunity for ODU to join so didn’t they see the group that they were getting into or shouldn’t they have had the vision to see that someone like Ecu would leave at the first chance? Poor vision by their leadership- you have to have something built and established before trying to grow/expand.

(04-03-2020 10:18 PM)JMad03 Wrote:  I know it was infuriating at the time, but it does appear that JMU made the right decision. It's pretty likely that we could have been facing the same financial problems ODU is facing right now.

We weren’t lucky to not move we were smart. Plenty of posts about the admin being foolish on here- time to give them credit for being smart. Sure the current environment magnifies this but the finances and the structure of the conference never made good sense especially if you had any vision of what was coming next.

If JMU would have made the move it would have been because the move made financial sense in the short mid and long term. It didn’t so they didn’t.

It is 2 to 3 years too early to determine if JMU was smart not join a current G5 or just unwilling to leave the CAA.

Media rights expire is 3 years and this damn virus may hurt the current G5s enough that regional G5 discussions take place sooner.

If regional G5 discussions become real and JMU's admin ensures JMU is in the middle of the public media debates ((no more JMU way (secrecy) crap)) and JMU makes the move I will eat crow and I will again buy season tix to both football and men's basketball (mostly gifts to others b/c I live in GA.)

Until it happens, I have doubts that JMU would leave the CAA for any reason and whether or not ODU athletics is hurting because of cusa, viruses or any other reason does not equate to JMU was playing chess while ODU/App played checkers as some have bought and continue to buy.

Right now we have hundreds of millions in athletic facilities ((a great thing if capitalized on (crow ready)) and JMU is getting very little in return.

(04-04-2020 11:38 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  It is 2 to 3 years too early to determine if JMU was smart not join a current G5 or just unwilling to leave the CAA.

Media rights expire is 3 years and this damn virus may hurt the current G5s enough that regional G5 discussions take place sooner.

If regional G5 discussions become real and JMU's admin ensures JMU is in the middle of the public media debates ((no more JMU way (secrecy) crap)) both football and men's basketball (mostly gifts to others b/c I live in GA.)

Until it happens, I have doubts that JMU would leave the CAA for any and JMU makes the move I will eat crow and I will again buy season tix to reason and whether or not ODU athletics is hurting because of cusa, viruses or any other reason does not equate to JMU was playing chess while ODU/App played checkers as some have bought and continue to buy.

Right now we have hundreds of millions in athletic facilities ((a great thing if capitalized on (crow ready)) and JMU is getting very little in return.

I agree with that. Our admin did not make the jump due to being geniuses or because they had a crystal ball. All of the prior criticism of our admin for being out to lunch on the decision to stay in the kiddie pool is still valid and justified. I would like to know what percentage of the hardcore fan base favored and favors moving to FBS. Certainly a majority. I'm guessing north of 80%.

(04-04-2020 11:38 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  It is 2 to 3 years too early to determine if JMU was smart not join a current G5 or just unwilling to leave the CAA.

Media rights expire is 3 years and this damn virus may hurt the current G5s enough that regional G5 discussions take place sooner.

If regional G5 discussions become real and JMU's admin ensures JMU is in the middle of the public media debates ((no more JMU way (secrecy) crap)) and JMU makes the move I will eat crow and I will again buy season tix to both football and men's basketball (mostly gifts to others b/c I live in GA.)

Until it happens, I have doubts that JMU would leave the CAA for any reason and whether or not ODU athletics is hurting because of cusa, viruses or any other reason does not equate to JMU was playing chess while ODU/App played checkers as some have bought and continue to buy.

Right now we have hundreds of millions in athletic facilities ((a great thing if capitalized on (crow ready)) and JMU is getting very little in return.

Millions in athletic facilities and not getting much in return ? WTH.

Build a football stadium and suddenly we average more than most G5’s, have hosted two espn game days (huge exposure) and been to 3 title games in less than a decade since it was built.

Softball got a new facility and has been a perennial top 25 team and been to 2 super regionals since.

Women’s lacrosse moves to a new facility in Sentara Park and then shortly after wins a national title.

Men’s soccer moves to a new facility in sentara Park and within a few years is 15 minutes from the college cup.

It’s to be seen what the new hoops facility will do. The women are already in a position of strength, and the men, we shall see.

But to say we aren’t getting much from our new facilities? What?

The study was performed by "Dr." Richard L. Sander, who was the axe man of ETSU football. He now runs a consulting firm where, for enough money, your AD/President can hire him to do the same as he did at ETSU.

ODU's problem is they fund too many black hole sports. They field more teams than Georgia Tech does for crying out loud. Unless you have a structural basis of support for that kind of largess like an endowment or fat donor it's not sustainable in the long run. If they cancel football you'll find every athletic department asking themselves if its worth losing $1m/yr to field a women's field hockey team. And another $1m/yr for a men's swimming and diving team. And so on and so forth.

The sports that make money and are safe: Football, Men's Basketball
The sports that VERY rarely can make money or don't lose much at least and thus are likely safe: Baseball, Men's/Women's Golf.

Everything else regardless of gender loses money hand over fist. Even UCONN WBB doesn't turn a profit or even close to one.

(04-04-2020 12:36 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 11:38 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  It is 2 to 3 years too early to determine if JMU was smart not join a current G5 or just unwilling to leave the CAA.

Media rights expire is 3 years and this damn virus may hurt the current G5s enough that regional G5 discussions take place sooner.

If regional G5 discussions become real and JMU's admin ensures JMU is in the middle of the public media debates ((no more JMU way (secrecy) crap)) and JMU makes the move I will eat crow and I will again buy season tix to both football and men's basketball (mostly gifts to others b/c I live in GA.)

Until it happens, I have doubts that JMU would leave the CAA for any reason and whether or not ODU athletics is hurting because of cusa, viruses or any other reason does not equate to JMU was playing chess while ODU/App played checkers as some have bought and continue to buy.

Right now we have hundreds of millions in athletic facilities ((a great thing if capitalized on (crow ready)) and JMU is getting very little in return.

Millions in athletic facilities and not getting much in return ? WTH.

Build a football stadium and suddenly we average more than most G5’s, have hosted two espn game days (huge exposure) and been to 3 title games in less than a decade since it was built.

Softball got a new facility and has been a perennial top 25 team and been to 2 super regionals since.

Women’s lacrosse moves to a new facility in Sentara Park and then shortly after wins a national title.

Men’s soccer moves to a new facility in sentara Park and within a few years is 15 minutes from the college cup.

It’s to be seen what the new hoops facility will do. The women are already in a position of strength, and the men, we shall see.

But to say we aren’t getting much from our new facilities? What?

Our definition of return is different. I think it's great when any team wearing a JMU uniform wins, however, wins are not equal contributors to financial/PR return. Football and men's basketball are high financial/PR sports, others are not.

Winning football has an asterisk *fcs. FCS is revenue/PR constrained.

Basketball, let's not discuss the planned destruction of a revenue/PR program...better times ahead we all hope.

JMU has to focus on revenue/PR sports, football and men's basketball if JMU is to max a financial/PR return.

Does Vegas sports betting include softball?

(04-04-2020 01:04 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The study was performed by "Dr." Richard L. Sander, who was the axe man of ETSU football. He now runs a consulting firm where, for enough money, your AD/President can hire him to do the same as he did at ETSU.

ODU's problem is they fund too many black hole sports. They field more teams than Georgia Tech does for crying out loud. Unless you have a structural basis of support for that kind of largess like an endowment or fat donor it's not sustainable in the long run. If they cancel football you'll find every athletic department asking themselves if its worth losing $1m/yr to field a women's field hockey team. And another $1m/yr for a men's swimming and diving team. And so on and so forth.

The sports that make money and are safe: Football, Men's Basketball
The sports than VERY rarely can make money or don't lose much at least and thus are likely safe: Baseball, Men's/Women's Golf.

Everything else regardless of gender loses money hand over fist. Even UCONN WBB doesn't turn a profit or even close to one.

I thought I read somewhere that by cutting wresting but adding women’s volleyball ODU will be at 16 sports which is the minimum to be FBS.

(04-04-2020 02:27 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 01:04 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The study was performed by "Dr." Richard L. Sander, who was the axe man of ETSU football. He now runs a consulting firm where, for enough money, your AD/President can hire him to do the same as he did at ETSU.

ODU's problem is they fund too many black hole sports. They field more teams than Georgia Tech does for crying out loud. Unless you have a structural basis of support for that kind of largess like an endowment or fat donor it's not sustainable in the long run. If they cancel football you'll find every athletic department asking themselves if its worth losing $1m/yr to field a women's field hockey team. And another $1m/yr for a men's swimming and diving team. And so on and so forth.

The sports that make money and are safe: Football, Men's Basketball
The sports than VERY rarely can make money or don't lose much at least and thus are likely safe: Baseball, Men's/Women's Golf.

Everything else regardless of gender loses money hand over fist. Even UCONN WBB doesn't turn a profit or even close to one.

I thought I read somewhere that by cutting wresting but adding women’s volleyball ODU will be at 16 sports which is the minimum to be FBS.

Georgia Tech only has 14 programs. That counts Swimming & Diving as 1 (both Men & Women) so perhaps it is really 15.

It is one of the smallest in the nation in terms of number of programs. No soccer. No lacrosse. I think GT might be the only P5 who doesn't fund/field a women's soccer program.

Miami has 16. Oddly, no men's golf (in such a warm climate year round). They have a men's diving team, but no swimming. They have a women's swimming & diving team.

The NCAA's website says to be D1, you must have at least 7 men's programs and 7 women's programs (or 6 for men and 8 for women)…

http://www.ncaa.org/about/who-we-are/mem...sification