(04-01-2020 03:03 PM)Statefan Wrote:  I've been watching in person since 1971.

David Thompson is the best player who has played basketball in the ACC - period...

The next best player was without doubt Len Bias.

Third is tough to call...

The fourth level of great are folks like Mark Price...

I never saw Thompson play "live", only saw a few game involving Bias, but I've seen highlights and stats - those guys must've been amazing!

I did see Mark Price in person - vs. Dell Curry and the Virginia Tech Hokies, in fact. TBH, both were great shooters, but I wouldn't consider Price better than Curry (and their NBA careers probably bears that out).

Speaking of Georgia Tech basketball: where's Kenny Anderson and Dennis Scott? and who was the 3rd guy? I can't remember...

(04-02-2020 12:02 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I never saw Thompson play "live", only saw a few game involving Bias, but I've seen highlights and stats - those guys must've been amazing!

I did see Mark Price in person - vs. Dell Curry and the Virginia Tech Hokies, in fact. TBH, both were great shooters, but I wouldn't consider Price better than Curry (and their NBA careers probably bears that out).

Speaking of Georgia Tech basketball: where's Kenny Anderson and Dennis Scott? and who was the 3rd guy? I can't remember...

They were 8 and 9 seeds -- triple the seeding of some 1 and done players they included. Forget the Cuse fans gaming the poll ... their starting bracket is far more preposterous than the vote returns from Upstate NY.

Regarding other missing Tech players .... Matt Harpring (apparently being second best in the league to Tim Duncan gets you the award of forgotten), Jarrett Jack, Brian Oliver (the third of Lethal Weapon 3 you forgot), Malcom Mackey, John Salley.

If we're going to toss and-dones out as well: Travis Best, Chris Bosh, Thaddeus Young, Josh Okogie.

(04-02-2020 12:39 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 12:02 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I never saw Thompson play "live", only saw a few game involving Bias, but I've seen highlights and stats - those guys must've been amazing!

I did see Mark Price in person - vs. Dell Curry and the Virginia Tech Hokies, in fact. TBH, both were great shooters, but I wouldn't consider Price better than Curry (and their NBA careers probably bears that out).

Speaking of Georgia Tech basketball: where's Kenny Anderson and Dennis Scott? and who was the 3rd guy? I can't remember...

They were 8 and 9 seeds -- triple the seeding of some 1 and done players they included. Forget the Cuse fans gaming the poll ... their starting bracket is far more preposterous than the vote returns from Upstate NY.

Regarding other missing Tech players .... Matt Harpring (apparently being second best in the league to Tim Duncan gets you the award of forgotten), Jarrett Jack, Brian Oliver (the third of Lethal Weapon 3 you forgot), Malcom Mackey, John Salley.

If we're going to toss and-dones out as well: Travis Best, Chris Bosh, Thaddeus Young, Josh Okogie.

Travis Best wasn't one and done! I forgot about him, he was excellent and probably one of the best ACC point guards of the 90's.

(04-02-2020 01:01 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 12:39 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 12:02 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I never saw Thompson play "live", only saw a few game involving Bias, but I've seen highlights and stats - those guys must've been amazing!

I did see Mark Price in person - vs. Dell Curry and the Virginia Tech Hokies, in fact. TBH, both were great shooters, but I wouldn't consider Price better than Curry (and their NBA careers probably bears that out).

Speaking of Georgia Tech basketball: where's Kenny Anderson and Dennis Scott? and who was the 3rd guy? I can't remember...

They were 8 and 9 seeds -- triple the seeding of some 1 and done players they included. Forget the Cuse fans gaming the poll ... their starting bracket is far more preposterous than the vote returns from Upstate NY.

Regarding other missing Tech players .... Matt Harpring (apparently being second best in the league to Tim Duncan gets you the award of forgotten), Jarrett Jack, Brian Oliver (the third of Lethal Weapon 3 you forgot), Malcom Mackey, John Salley.

If we're going to toss and-dones out as well: Travis Best, Chris Bosh, Thaddeus Young, Josh Okogie.

Travis Best wasn't one and done! I forgot about him, he was excellent and probably one of the best ACC point guards of the 90's.

I got him and Jarret Jack confused on career span. Best was 4 years, Jack was 3. Didn't say he was one and done ... just didn't complete the 4. Okogie banked 2, Thad and Bosh and Starbury were all 1 and done.

You guys made me stop and really STUDY that ACC greatest player bracket. plenty of talent there, to be sure, though I totally disagree with some of the results.

Ralph Sampson is WAY overrated as a 1 seed. Carmelo Anthony over Shane Battier? then over Grant Hill? PLEASE! Carmelo couldn't cover a freezing child with a blanket...

Dwayne Washington shouldn't get past Adrian Dantley, much less Zion Williamson and Tim Duncan! I also question Julius Hodge over J.J. Redick...

Derrick Coleman supposed to get past Chris Paul, Michael Jordan, AND David Thompson? That region was brutal anyway!

On the whole I will agree - those Georgia Tech players were seeded too low; we're talking teams that regularly made it to the Final Four (even if they didn't win it all).

(04-02-2020 01:57 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  You guys made me stop and really STUDY that ACC greatest player bracket. plenty of talent there, to be sure, though I totally disagree with some of the results.

Ralph Sampson is WAY overrated as a 1 seed. Carmelo Anthony over Shane Battier? then over Grant Hill? PLEASE! Carmelo couldn't cover a freezing child with a blanket...

Dwayne Washington shouldn't get past Adrian Dantley, much less Zion Williamson and Tim Duncan! I also question Julius Hodge over J.J. Redick...

Derrick Coleman supposed to get past Chris Paul, Michael Jordan, AND David Thompson? That region was brutal anyway!

On the whole I will agree - those Georgia Tech players were seeded too low; we're talking teams that regularly made it to the Final Four (even if they didn't win it all).

Simply putting in a minimum of 3 years of playing cleans up a lot of mess. And you need people who actually are willing to look up the numbers on the college career and not just go with a reputation made in the NBA.

If at least 3 years is the criteria, these are probably FSUs top 10 all time:

1 Dave Cowen
2 Ron King
3 Bob Sura
4 George McCleod
5 Harry Davis
6 Al Thornton
7 Doug Edwards
8 James Collins
9 Toney Douglas
10 Michael Snaer

There was no good top FSU players all time list out there. The “Ranker” list was simply awful.

(04-02-2020 03:11 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  If at least 3 years is the criteria, these are probably FSUs top 10 all time:

1 Dave Cowen
2 Ron King
3 Bob Sura
4 George McCleod
5 Harry Davis
6 Al Thornton
7 Doug Edwards
8 James Collins
9 Toney Douglas
10 Michael Snaer

There was no good top FSU players all time list out there. The “Ranker” list was simply awful.

JuCo transfer, but Sam Cassell put up some numbers.

The following list shows how NC State basketball was destroyed in 1990.

Here's NC State's best 12:

1. Small Forward, David Thompson, 73-75 National Player of the Year -Dethroned UCLA - 2 ACC Titles, 1 National Championship
2. Big Forward, Kenny Carr, 75-77, Olympian, First round draft pick
3. Guard, Sammy Ranzino, 48-51, First NC State All American - 4 Southern Conference Titles, 1 Final Four
4. Center, Tommy Burleson, 72-74, Best Center In NC State History
5. Shooting Guard, Rodney Monroe, 87-91, Best pure shooter in NC State history

Second Team

6. SG - Julius Hodge - 00-03 - Herb Sendek's best player
7. SF - Hawkeye Whitney - 76-79
8. C - Todd Fuller - 92-95 - Les Robinson's best player
9. Guard - Chris Coarchiani - 87-91 NCAA assist leader 1991
10. BF - Tom Gugliotta - 88-92 - A Jim Valvano developed player

Scrubs

11. Guard, Lou Pucillo 56-59, All American, ACC POY, 2 ACC Titles
12. Center, Ronnie Shavlick 53-56 - All American, ACC POY, 3 ACC Titles

From 1946 until 1990 NC State won 16 ACC and SoCon titles. Then the program was destroyed by a cabal of outside forces and a jealous clique in administration at NC State that wanted to move up paving the way for a 30 year drought.

(04-02-2020 07:15 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 03:11 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  If at least 3 years is the criteria, these are probably FSUs top 10 all time:

1 Dave Cowen
2 Ron King
3 Bob Sura
4 George McCleod
5 Harry Davis
6 Al Thornton
7 Doug Edwards
8 James Collins
9 Toney Douglas
10 Michael Snaer

There was no good top FSU players all time list out there. The “Ranker” list was simply awful.

JuCo transfer, but Sam Cassell put up some numbers.

I have a second hand Sam Cassell story. I occasionally have a friend who is a barber, allow him to cut my hair. He used to play pick games in the early 90s at the old Florida high campus located on FSU’s campus. It had out door courts and FSU athletes including those from the basketball team would regularly play pick up games. So he got to play with Ward, Sura, Edwards, Cassell, etc. I asked him “who was the best one?” He said ‘without a doubt Sam Cassell, when he got the ball past half court it was over (implying he can make the shot). He frequently got double and triple teamed.’

(04-02-2020 08:37 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 07:15 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 03:11 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  If at least 3 years is the criteria, these are probably FSUs top 10 all time:

1 Dave Cowen
2 Ron King
3 Bob Sura
4 George McCleod
5 Harry Davis
6 Al Thornton
7 Doug Edwards
8 James Collins
9 Toney Douglas
10 Michael Snaer

There was no good top FSU players all time list out there. The “Ranker” list was simply awful.

JuCo transfer, but Sam Cassell put up some numbers.

I have a second hand Sam Cassell story. I occasionally have a friend who is a barber, allow him to cut my hair. He used to play pick games in the early 90s at the old Florida high campus located on FSU’s campus. It had out door courts and FSU athletes including those from the basketball team would regularly play pick up games. So he got to play with Ward, Sura, Edwards, Cassell, etc. I asked him “who was the best one?” He said ‘without a doubt Sam Cassell, when he got the ball past half court it was over (implying he can make the shot). He frequently got double and triple teamed.’

That's awesome. FSU was stacked in the early 90's, with a Heisman trophy winner in the backcourt.

(04-02-2020 01:57 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  You guys made me stop and really STUDY that ACC greatest player bracket. plenty of talent there, to be sure, though I totally disagree with some of the results.

Ralph Sampson is WAY overrated as a 1 seed. Carmelo Anthony over Shane Battier? then over Grant Hill? PLEASE! Carmelo couldn't cover a freezing child with a blanket...

Dwayne Washington shouldn't get past Adrian Dantley, much less Zion Williamson and Tim Duncan! I also question Julius Hodge over J.J. Redick...

Derrick Coleman supposed to get past Chris Paul, Michael Jordan, AND David Thompson? That region was brutal anyway!

On the whole I will agree - those Georgia Tech players were seeded too low; we're talking teams that regularly made it to the Final Four (even if they didn't win it all).

Dude, you do realize that Sampson was the national player of the year like, three straight years... right?

What do you have to do to be a #1 seed in your world???

(04-05-2020 09:27 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Dude, you do realize that Sampson was the national player of the year like, three straight years... right?

What do you have to do to be a #1 seed in your world???

Maybe he just takes that Chaminade loss very seriously.

(04-05-2020 09:27 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 01:57 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  You guys made me stop and really STUDY that ACC greatest player bracket. plenty of talent there, to be sure, though I totally disagree with some of the results.

Ralph Sampson is WAY overrated as a 1 seed. Carmelo Anthony over Shane Battier? then over Grant Hill? PLEASE! Carmelo couldn't cover a freezing child with a blanket...

Dwayne Washington shouldn't get past Adrian Dantley, much less Zion Williamson and Tim Duncan! I also question Julius Hodge over J.J. Redick...

Derrick Coleman supposed to get past Chris Paul, Michael Jordan, AND David Thompson? That region was brutal anyway!

On the whole I will agree - those Georgia Tech players were seeded too low; we're talking teams that regularly made it to the Final Four (even if they didn't win it all).

Dude, you do realize that Sampson was the national player of the year like, three straight years... right?

What do you have to do to be a #1 seed in your world???

How about win something worthwhile? Zero ACC Tournament championships, Zero NCAA Tournament championships (made it to the Final Four in his Sophomore year, couldn't get back in 2 more tries). Hey, his Freshman year they did win the NIT...

(04-05-2020 01:25 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  How about win something worthwhile? Zero ACC Tournament championships, Zero NCAA Tournament championships (made it to the Final Four in his Sophomore year, couldn't get back in 2 more tries). Hey, his Freshman year they did win the NIT...

I don't agree with that in a team sport. There's only so much one player can do no matter how good they are. How many years did Allen Iverson or Kobe Bryant drop 30+ every night for their team in the NBA ... only for them to never accomplish squat in the postseason? Give Kobe Bryant the help of Shaq ... suddenly NBA titles.

(04-05-2020 01:43 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-05-2020 01:25 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  How about win something worthwhile? Zero ACC Tournament championships, Zero NCAA Tournament championships (made it to the Final Four in his Sophomore year, couldn't get back in 2 more tries). Hey, his Freshman year they did win the NIT...

I don't agree with that in a team sport. There's only so much one player can do no matter how good they are. How many years did Allen Iverson or Kobe Bryant drop 30+ every night for their team in the NBA ... only for them to never accomplish squat in the postseason? Give Kobe Bryant the help of Shaq ... suddenly NBA titles.

In general I agree with that; OTOH, had he won a championship, maybe I would've viewed him differently. I just never was all that impressed with Sampson; never thought he was the best player in the ACC, much less the nation. Yeah, he was tall, but... if it was between Ralph Sampson and a much less heralded big man of that era - say, John Salley - who would YOU rather have?

(04-05-2020 01:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-05-2020 01:43 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-05-2020 01:25 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  How about win something worthwhile? Zero ACC Tournament championships, Zero NCAA Tournament championships (made it to the Final Four in his Sophomore year, couldn't get back in 2 more tries). Hey, his Freshman year they did win the NIT...

I don't agree with that in a team sport. There's only so much one player can do no matter how good they are. How many years did Allen Iverson or Kobe Bryant drop 30+ every night for their team in the NBA ... only for them to never accomplish squat in the postseason? Give Kobe Bryant the help of Shaq ... suddenly NBA titles.

In general I agree with that; OTOH, had he won a championship, maybe I would've viewed him differently. I just never was all that impressed with Sampson; never thought he was the best player in the ACC, much less the nation. Yeah, he was tall, but... if it was between Ralph Sampson and a much less heralded big man of that era - say, John Salley - who would YOU rather have?

Ralph Sampson... easily.

(04-02-2020 08:15 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(03-31-2020 01:33 PM)schmolik Wrote:  In other words, let's crown Syracuse's best player.

It gets worse, the loser in each Elite 8 match-up is from North Carolina St.

It was the ref's, conference leadership, etc fault. This is the world NC State fans live in.

No doubt David Thompson was all that and Len Bias also; however, when rating the ACC best all time bball player, the #1 ranking have to go to Laettner. Thompson nor Bias accomplished what this cat did both team wise and individually. Tim Duncan comes close and obviously Ralph Sampson.

(04-05-2020 02:23 PM)Indytarheel Wrote:  No doubt David Thompson was all that and Len Bias also; however, when rating the ACC best all time bball player, the #1 ranking have to go to Laettner. Thompson nor Bias accomplished what this cat did both team wise and individually. Tim Duncan comes close and obviously Ralph Simpson.

Tim Duncan showed what he was capable of when he got to the NBA. Someone please tell me why Ralph Sampson (or even Ralph Simpson) deserves to be in the same conversation? What did Ralph ever accomplish - team or individually (save a few beauty contests)?