(04-01-2020 08:14 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(03-31-2020 07:30 PM)wewererebels Wrote:  

(03-31-2020 03:27 PM)kevinwmsn Wrote:  If we kept winning that would helped some, but it's hard to build that fanbase when there a lot of Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Florida State fans from the P5. Very hard to compete for fans when Alabama or Auburn in contention to win the National Title since South started football. I know a number of Troy fans that live in Mobile that make that drive to Troy on Saturdays. In year 3 of our program, we gave NC State fits at their stadium with 2 100 yard RBs. Good thing they had a NFL qb that day. I think think we are late to the party on football and should have started it in the 90s or even sooner. At least Troy has generations of fans, where we are trying to get there.

Agreed, winning is essential to getting fans in the seats, and it has to be consistent. For a local example, TCU has over 100 years of tradition and loyal fans - yet they have struggled to fill their stadium, even after decades of winning and contending. Our other local examples, UNT and SMU haven't won lately as much as TCU, and it is reflected in their attendance.

SMU and UnTexas average maybe 15-20K per home game. Do people just not go to football games anymore? That seems to be the trend for non P5 schools, with the notable exception of several traditionally black schools, who have less problem selling the tickets and filling the seats. I suspect the SWAC has better overall attendance numbers than the Belt or CUSA.

I think the new generation of college kids are just interested in other stuff. there are still enough diehard fans around to support the old state flagship schools because they have a national following and get plenty of tv time. those others that have some regional foothold are holding kinda steady but dont have big numbers. practically no college kids I know have much interest or knowledge of college sports and most gripe about having to pay some of their tuition dollars toward sports. if they do go to any games, they spend most of their time looking at their phone. not many buy school swag or provide much support to their school after graduation. just a sign of the times. IMHO

This is interesting speculation about the current student generation's attitudes towards college athletics. It seems like just yesterday that a few of us "athletics alumni" were on the mall at UTA campaigning in favor of the student referendum that was to raise the Student Athletics Fee for the purpose of restarting football. That was in April, 2004. The referendum won by a 2 to 1 margin. But despite the students' overwhelming mandate for "athletics expansion," the administration demurred.

So now, 16 years later, would the students again vote to raise their own fees in order to bring football back to the campus? I think they would, partly because the opponents would not vote in the referendum. It's hard to get people to be demonstrative about their indifference. LOL.

(04-02-2020 10:06 AM)wewererebels Wrote:  

(04-01-2020 08:14 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(03-31-2020 07:30 PM)wewererebels Wrote:  

(03-31-2020 03:27 PM)kevinwmsn Wrote:  If we kept winning that would helped some, but it's hard to build that fanbase when there a lot of Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Florida State fans from the P5. Very hard to compete for fans when Alabama or Auburn in contention to win the National Title since South started football. I know a number of Troy fans that live in Mobile that make that drive to Troy on Saturdays. In year 3 of our program, we gave NC State fits at their stadium with 2 100 yard RBs. Good thing they had a NFL qb that day. I think think we are late to the party on football and should have started it in the 90s or even sooner. At least Troy has generations of fans, where we are trying to get there.

Agreed, winning is essential to getting fans in the seats, and it has to be consistent. For a local example, TCU has over 100 years of tradition and loyal fans - yet they have struggled to fill their stadium, even after decades of winning and contending. Our other local examples, UNT and SMU haven't won lately as much as TCU, and it is reflected in their attendance.

SMU and UnTexas average maybe 15-20K per home game. Do people just not go to football games anymore? That seems to be the trend for non P5 schools, with the notable exception of several traditionally black schools, who have less problem selling the tickets and filling the seats. I suspect the SWAC has better overall attendance numbers than the Belt or CUSA.

I think the new generation of college kids are just interested in other stuff. there are still enough diehard fans around to support the old state flagship schools because they have a national following and get plenty of tv time. those others that have some regional foothold are holding kinda steady but dont have big numbers. practically no college kids I know have much interest or knowledge of college sports and most gripe about having to pay some of their tuition dollars toward sports. if they do go to any games, they spend most of their time looking at their phone. not many buy school swag or provide much support to their school after graduation. just a sign of the times. IMHO

This is interesting speculation about the current student generation's attitudes towards college athletics. It seems like just yesterday that a few of us "athletics alumni" were on the mall at UTA campaigning in favor of the student referendum that was to raise the Student Athletics Fee for the purpose of restarting football. That was in April, 2004. The referendum won by a 2 to 1 margin. But despite the students' overwhelming mandate for "athletics expansion," the administration demurred.

So now, 16 years later, would the students again vote to raise their own fees in order to bring football back to the campus? I think they would, partly because the opponents would not vote in the referendum. It's hard to get people to be demonstrative about their indifference. LOL.

With the cost of a college education these days, it’s easy to get students riled up against raising fees. That’s why our student referendum to raise fees for RSOs and athletics failed so hard.

(04-02-2020 11:48 AM)debragga Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 10:06 AM)wewererebels Wrote:  

(04-01-2020 08:14 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(03-31-2020 07:30 PM)wewererebels Wrote:  

(03-31-2020 03:27 PM)kevinwmsn Wrote:  If we kept winning that would helped some, but it's hard to build that fanbase when there a lot of Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Florida State fans from the P5. Very hard to compete for fans when Alabama or Auburn in contention to win the National Title since South started football. I know a number of Troy fans that live in Mobile that make that drive to Troy on Saturdays. In year 3 of our program, we gave NC State fits at their stadium with 2 100 yard RBs. Good thing they had a NFL qb that day. I think think we are late to the party on football and should have started it in the 90s or even sooner. At least Troy has generations of fans, where we are trying to get there.

Agreed, winning is essential to getting fans in the seats, and it has to be consistent. For a local example, TCU has over 100 years of tradition and loyal fans - yet they have struggled to fill their stadium, even after decades of winning and contending. Our other local examples, UNT and SMU haven't won lately as much as TCU, and it is reflected in their attendance.

SMU and UnTexas average maybe 15-20K per home game. Do people just not go to football games anymore? That seems to be the trend for non P5 schools, with the notable exception of several traditionally black schools, who have less problem selling the tickets and filling the seats. I suspect the SWAC has better overall attendance numbers than the Belt or CUSA.

I think the new generation of college kids are just interested in other stuff. there are still enough diehard fans around to support the old state flagship schools because they have a national following and get plenty of tv time. those others that have some regional foothold are holding kinda steady but dont have big numbers. practically no college kids I know have much interest or knowledge of college sports and most gripe about having to pay some of their tuition dollars toward sports. if they do go to any games, they spend most of their time looking at their phone. not many buy school swag or provide much support to their school after graduation. just a sign of the times. IMHO

This is interesting speculation about the current student generation's attitudes towards college athletics. It seems like just yesterday that a few of us "athletics alumni" were on the mall at UTA campaigning in favor of the student referendum that was to raise the Student Athletics Fee for the purpose of restarting football. That was in April, 2004. The referendum won by a 2 to 1 margin. But despite the students' overwhelming mandate for "athletics expansion," the administration demurred.

So now, 16 years later, would the students again vote to raise their own fees in order to bring football back to the campus? I think they would, partly because the opponents would not vote in the referendum. It's hard to get people to be demonstrative about their indifference. LOL.

With the cost of a college education these days, it’s easy to get students riled up against raising fees. That’s why our student referendum to raise fees for RSOs and athletics failed so hard.

Wow. I hadn't heard about that election result. Raising fees is definitely a sensitive subject. UNT and Texas State both had very substantial increases that were approved by student referenda in the not too distant past that paid for significant construction at both campuses. With our huge enrollment numbers at UTA, we would not need a very large increase in the current rate of $8.5 per semester hour to totally fund football startup.

I recon we would collect $1 million annually per dollar increase in the fee, so if we jumped to $20/hr, with a maximum of $200 per semester per student, we would realize around $20M a year.

This being Texas, I think we could win such a referendum again. And hopefully, the new President would be on board with going "Tier One" in athletics.

(03-28-2020 09:33 AM)Usajags Wrote:  Adding UTA in football helps TxSt with an instate conference game in football. It sure-ups the western edge of the conference, by adding NMSU just creates another outlier.

UALR would struggle more than ULM with budget issues, however, they have a stadium they can play in. Might have to tell UALR to head off to another conference, but I would give them the opportunity to decide on their own. That would give stAte an instate rival and take another hit to that school in Fayetteville. The conference division is real easy if both schools start football.

If UALR opts out, make a hard run at USM. Whatever school we add needs to be inside the current conference footprint. i would say UTC for a second choice, but they don’t have baseball, and that’s unacceptable.

(03-28-2020 09:37 AM)PAAcocahesAssociation Wrote:  Southern Miss has a daily show called "Eagle Hour" where some of their broadcasters have indicated they would seriously consider the move, though I doubt they would go through with it, just because of how close they are to ULL and USA. If luring a CUSA school didn't work, then reach out to Chattanooga. For reasons I've explained in the past, they would be a solid addition to this league, even despite not having a baseball program. If that was a deal breaker, then you could look to Missouri State for an all sports member, or look to Liberty as a football only member. Those are the realistic options I think you could honestly perceive. Most include giving UALR the boot, except for the Liberty as a football only member option.

There is one big glaring thing about UTC, no one in Chatty cares about UTC football at all, they are all in Knoxville on a fall Saturday. Finley Stadium which opened in 1997 (20,886) hasn't seen a crowd over 10,000 since 2009 and then Chatty wasn't playing, it was Nova and Montana in the IAA National Title Game (14,328). In the last 10 years, their best 3 years 2014, 15 and 16 they couldn't break 10,000. In 2014 at 10-4 they only lost 1 game at home to 10-2 Jacksonville State and still the biggest game only had 8,106 people.

UTC is exactly where they should be in IAA. Although I think both UTC and ETSU would fit better in with the OVC instead of the SoCon.

As one of the few public universities in the conference Chattanooga's budget now dwarfs the rest of the SmallCon but they still can't win consistently. UTC lacks a winning culture and are in the MASSIVE shadow cast by Tennessee. It's time to get picky about Sunbelt expansion. Go down the line...Southern Miss/Marshall first, then any number of C-USA 2nd tier, then if they all turn you down approach JMU, and if they turn you down stay put.

(04-03-2020 12:42 PM)APPdiesel Wrote:  As one of the few public universities in the conference Chattanooga's budget now dwarfs the rest of the SmallCon but they still can't win consistently. UTC lacks a winning culture and are in the MASSIVE shadow cast by Tennessee. It's time to get picky about Sunbelt expansion. Go down the line...Southern Miss/Marshall first, then any number of C-USA 2nd tier, then if they all turn you down approach JMU, and if they turn you down stay put.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. The Sun Belt should accept no less than schools who are ready to compete in the league from day one.

That said, I'm still in the camp of realigning C-USA & the Sun Belt along geographical lines. With the cancellation of the NCAA Tournament and spring sports, budgets are already being squeezed as never before. If football season is delayed, reduced, or doomsday scenario canceled, it is going to hit us G5'ers really, really hard.

Olympic sports could get cut, as wrestling already has at Old Dominion. None in the Sun Belt is immune to that.

I cannot imagine any fiscally responsible AD or university president not looking at all options to save costs with everything going on, including saving on travel costs through more sensible conference geography. If doing that can save schools' team sports from being cut, then it needs to be done. App State can always schedule Louisiana, Arkansas State, and anyone else who ends up in the western league in non-conference play. Besides, there would be space on the schedule for it since the Marshall and Charlotte games would now be conference games.

(04-03-2020 12:42 PM)APPdiesel Wrote:  As one of the few public universities in the conference Chattanooga's budget now dwarfs the rest of the SmallCon but they still can't win consistently. UTC lacks a winning culture and are in the MASSIVE shadow cast by Tennessee. It's time to get picky about Sunbelt expansion. Go down the line...Southern Miss/Marshall first, then any number of C-USA 2nd tier, then if they all turn you down approach JMU, and if they turn you down stay put.

Hussman had them going in the right direction but then Richmond came along plucked him. If he doesn't do well next year he could be fired, in 3 years he is 6-5, 5-7 and 4-7. Seeing those records my question is was Hussman's success those 3 years due to his son Jacob Hussman who was the QB.

(04-03-2020 01:17 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Olympic sports could get cut, as wrestling already has at Old Dominion. None in the Sun Belt is immune to that.

I cannot imagine any fiscally responsible AD or university president not looking at all options to save costs

I could see a scenario where schools drop down to 6 sports. 3 men 3 women until budgets stabilize. Then start adding them back. I’d be heart broken for those athletes but would you rather amputate a leg or lose the whole body?

(04-08-2020 05:35 PM)APPdiesel Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 01:17 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Olympic sports could get cut, as wrestling already has at Old Dominion. None in the Sun Belt is immune to that.

I cannot imagine any fiscally responsible AD or university president not looking at all options to save costs

I could see a scenario where schools drop down to 6 sports. 3 men 3 women until budgets stabilize. Then start adding them back. I’d be heart broken for those athletes but would you rather amputate a leg or lose the whole body?

We're very sensitive about amputations at Arlington. In 1985, I was a season ticket holder and at age 37, I lost my home team. Now I'm 72 and wondering if I will ever see football again at UT Arlington. Back in the day, I'm sure the Athletics Director and administration tried everything they could think of to keep football alive.

All the other sports were cut to the bone, and some were even eliminated in order to try and save the program. Part of the problem was that a major source of funding, the so-called Student Activities Fee, was taken away from athletics. It seems some influential liberal staff members wanted to use those funds in other ways, and it had not occurred to anyone in that era to have a student athletics fee, so for this and many other reasons, mostly political, we lost the football team.

Today, UT Arlington is relatively well-heeled, and if Student Athletics Fees could be raised to anywhere near the levels existing at our peer universities, we could easily afford to resurrect the football program, plus pursue some serious construction projects.

Again, I see Georgia State as a shining example of what can be done.

(04-03-2020 05:04 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 12:42 PM)APPdiesel Wrote:  As one of the few public universities in the conference Chattanooga's budget now dwarfs the rest of the SmallCon but they still can't win consistently. UTC lacks a winning culture and are in the MASSIVE shadow cast by Tennessee. It's time to get picky about Sunbelt expansion. Go down the line...Southern Miss/Marshall first, then any number of C-USA 2nd tier, then if they all turn you down approach JMU, and if they turn you down stay put.

Hussman had them going in the right direction but then Richmond came along plucked him. If he doesn't do well next year he could be fired, in 3 years he is 6-5, 5-7 and 4-7. Seeing those records my question is was Hussman's success those 3 years due to his son Jacob Hussman who was the QB.

It's hard to say. He had a good season the last year App and Ga Southern were in the league, and they improved by a couple of games once they left. He had a couple of 6-5 seasons at the beginning, before starting to take off. However, they never seemed to be primed for a deep run in the FCS playoffs.

He did record a close loss to Central Michigan in 2014, a game they should have one against a team that crushed Purdue the following week.
Also recorded a blowout victory against Georgia State in 2013, the first year they were transitioning to FBS. Just some highlights that I recall, but the most rememberable would be the 1st quarter lead they held over Bama in 2016 at 3-0. That quickly changed in the 2nd quarter though, lol!

(04-08-2020 09:49 PM)wewererebels Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 05:35 PM)APPdiesel Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 01:17 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Olympic sports could get cut, as wrestling already has at Old Dominion. None in the Sun Belt is immune to that.

I cannot imagine any fiscally responsible AD or university president not looking at all options to save costs

I could see a scenario where schools drop down to 6 sports. 3 men 3 women until budgets stabilize. Then start adding them back. I’d be heart broken for those athletes but would you rather amputate a leg or lose the whole body?

We're very sensitive about amputations at Arlington. In 1985, I was a season ticket holder and at age 37, I lost my home team. Now I'm 72 and wondering if I will ever see football again at UT Arlington. Back in the day, I'm sure the Athletics Director and administration tried everything they could think of to keep football alive.

All the other sports were cut to the bone, and some were even eliminated in order to try and save the program. Part of the problem was that a major source of funding, the so-called Student Activities Fee, was taken away from athletics. It seems some influential liberal staff members wanted to use those funds in other ways, and it had not occurred to anyone in that era to have a student athletics fee, so for this and many other reasons, mostly political, we lost the football team.

Today, UT Arlington is relatively well-heeled, and if Student Athletics Fees could be raised to anywhere near the levels existing at our peer universities, we could easily afford to resurrect the football program, plus pursue some serious construction projects.

Again, I see Georgia State as a shining example of what can be done.

sounds like you were there the same time I was..a '72 grad. B.S.Architecture. I bought 4 seats when they built the stadium and was a donor and maverick club member for years. many supporters like me were lost when they dropped football. I remember the first reason they gave was the loss of money and after we forced an audit that showed the loss was due to womens sports they claimed lack of support for football so we sold out the next season if they would have had it but the leadership had their minds made up. I have seen us drop football and a top rated swimming program and neglect our other programs for years. I stayed a maverick club member a few more years because of Jack Davis and basketball but while I still buy season tickets to baseball and some tickets to select basketball games, the recent events with coach cross have kinda been the final straw for me and I think many others who dont feel the school will ever be very serious about sports. It is certainly depressing to me to see many small regional schools decide to add or elevate their football programs over the years while uta seems to tread water.

(04-16-2020 08:07 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 09:49 PM)wewererebels Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 05:35 PM)APPdiesel Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 01:17 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Olympic sports could get cut, as wrestling already has at Old Dominion. None in the Sun Belt is immune to that.

I cannot imagine any fiscally responsible AD or university president not looking at all options to save costs

I could see a scenario where schools drop down to 6 sports. 3 men 3 women until budgets stabilize. Then start adding them back. I’d be heart broken for those athletes but would you rather amputate a leg or lose the whole body?

We're very sensitive about amputations at Arlington. In 1985, I was a season ticket holder and at age 37, I lost my home team. Now I'm 72 and wondering if I will ever see football again at UT Arlington. Back in the day, I'm sure the Athletics Director and administration tried everything they could think of to keep football alive.

All the other sports were cut to the bone, and some were even eliminated in order to try and save the program. Part of the problem was that a major source of funding, the so-called Student Activities Fee, was taken away from athletics. It seems some influential liberal staff members wanted to use those funds in other ways, and it had not occurred to anyone in that era to have a student athletics fee, so for this and many other reasons, mostly political, we lost the football team.

Today, UT Arlington is relatively well-heeled, and if Student Athletics Fees could be raised to anywhere near the levels existing at our peer universities, we could easily afford to resurrect the football program, plus pursue some serious construction projects.

Again, I see Georgia State as a shining example of what can be done.

Sounds like you were there the same time I was..a '72 grad. B.S.Architecture. I bought 4 seats when they built the stadium and was a donor and maverick club member for years. many supporters like me were lost when they dropped football. I remember the first reason they gave was the loss of money and after we forced an audit that showed the loss was due to womens' sports they claimed lack of support for football so we sold out the next season if they would have had it but the leadership had their minds made up. I have seen us drop football and a top rated swimming program and neglect our other programs for years. I stayed a maverick club member a few more years because of Jack Davis and basketball but while I still buy season tickets to baseball and some tickets to select basketball games, the recent events with coach cross have kinda been the final straw for me and I think many others who don't feel the school will ever be very serious about sports. It is certainly depressing to me to see many small regional schools decide to add or elevate their football programs over the years while uta seems to tread water.

Yes, I was class of '71, BA Gov't Pre-Law. I went into the Air Force and spent a few years overseas, participating in LBJ's war. Eventually, after a side trip to finish law school, we were stationed in Abilene. For four years we commuted to home games from Abilene, two plus hours each way with wife and two kids. We had great fun, even during the "Bud" years, but especially after Chuck Curtis came.

It's too bad things have gone the way they have, and I think it's largely a reflection of the fractured on-campus society we have had, featuring in-fighting and various turf battles. A particular source of irritation to me over the years has been the tendency of the music department people to brag about having a marching band without a football team - kind of 'Nerd Virtue Signaling." Contrast this with the bands at SMU and TCU, which both exist for the express purpose of boosting school spirit.

What a huge culture shift occurred at UTA, from being a much larger version of TAMU in 1965, with the second largest cadet corps in Texas and being a mostly Math, Science, Engineering and Technology college. After moving to the UT system, Arlington was gradually changed to a commuter school, then later becoming a smaller UT, featuring more Liberal Arts, Nursing and Education programs. In 1985, UTA was in the middle of this transformation, and had not had a new dorm or on-campus apartment built in over 20 years. UTA was like a regional 4 year community college, and the students were often older or part timers, often times uninterested in on-campus activities after class.

Now, we have emerged from the other side of this metamorphosis, but campus leaders seem to still be trapped in the mindset of the 1980s Nedderman era including clinging to obsolete arguments against college athletics in general, and football in particular.