(03-26-2020 07:17 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 06:41 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  This may make it a little more obvious to those that haven’t looked into JMU’s spending.

JMU ‘s athletic spending has increased 8% in the last 4 years fueled almost exclusively by a 12% increase in student fee revenue. It doesn’t matter how many line item accounting excuses you make, spending is up 8%.
How much do you think men’s basketball spending has increased? Well, it hasn’t. In fact it has Decreased 12% in the last four years (I backed out Brady’s severance because that would make the gap look artificially larger).

BTW, for reference, spending has increased in Olympic sports by 14% in those same 4 years.

2020 was supposed to be a pinnacle year for JMU basketball, but Alger and Bourne have been asleep at the wheel for several years.
Does anyone feel like they have prepared and planned for this monumental year like competent leaders do? Is there any penalty for them?

And why was 2020 supposed to be a “pinnacle year” for JMU basketball?
You conveniently are arguing out of both sides of an illogical stance.

On the one hand you want to claim it’s a “pinnacle year” (because of the new arena...which Alger, CK and JB helped bring online), and yet, on the other hand you want to argue Alger, CK and JB are not competent leaders and should be punished because in your mind they haven’t “prepared and planned for this monumental year.” What evidence do you present that Alger and company haven’t prepared or planned?

The very people you’re criticizing helped bring the new arena online. This development did not happen by happy accident. It took skill and planning out the wazzoo to make this happen on JMU’s campus. But you want us to believe that now, because they canned a bad coach and didn’t hire Rick Pitino, or some similar pie-in-the-sky HC, they are unprepared to open the new arena.

Sorry. I’m not buying your take on where JMU is in prepping to start a new era in MBB. Not by a long shot. I’m cautiously optimistic that the new HC is the right guy, and the closer we get to the new season all of your negativity about “prepping and planning” will be revealed as seriously silly talk.

You can be optimistic if you feel that is reasonable. However, you have to admit the program is at the bottom of its existence coming off of 4 straight losing years culminating in a last place 9-21(2-16) season. We couldn’t be in a worse starting position if we tried. Wouldn’t it be wise having strong momentum heading into such a critical year?

Building a $100 million SEac level arena = great! I agree.
Failing to properly fund the basketball program, specifically coaching salary = terrible.

My take is that the head coach is way more important than the building. If you feel the building is more important than the coach you are allowed to have that opinion.

Personally, I would rather JMU had stuck with the original plan from 2011 to spend $5 - $10 million sprucing up the Convo and buying a modern videoboard. Then using money to pay a coach $1 million/year to get the best.

How about we set a nice gentlemanly wager on attendance in year one of the AUBC once the schedule is finalized. UVA will sell out for sure. All the rest of the home games will determine did JMU completely screw up the inaugural year of a Taj Mahal arena. So the bet might even help determine if this is all is silly talk. Maybe another gentlemanly wager on the JMU’s record since it is possible the won-loss record won’t correspond directly with the attendance.
You only get one grand opening year and the new car smell wears off pretty darn quick. If we are shooting to bring back the electric zoo and actual fans sitting in their paid seats by year 2 or 3 of the new arena, then I call that gross negligence.

This has nothing to do with if we think Byington can be successful eventually.

(03-27-2020 05:41 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 04:54 PM)Purplehazed Wrote:  Bourne's dialogue today states the priority of the mbb coach to fit the CAA. I thought we built the arena and are waiting out media rights so we can get the hell out of the caa.

When does Bourne retire?

Still probably a couple years away from the possible conference shake ups Hazed. You know this. Should focusing on being competitive in the CAA because that's where we live today not be the point?

Why the caa homerism in every communication? A coach needs to fit the caa whatever that means to compete in a one bid conference? The last coach had never been a head coach but he must have fit the caa.

(03-27-2020 04:54 PM)Purplehazed Wrote:  Bourne's dialogue today states the priority of the mbb coach to fit the CAA. I thought we built the arena and are waiting out media rights so we can get the hell out of the caa.

When does Bourne retire?

Can you quote where it says that?

First paragraph includes list of criteria of a coach at JMU,
"ties to our conference"

Why say that? It sounds like caa love. I am probably reading into it too much because Bourne is not a decision maker anyway.

Would feel so much better if JMU started branding as “we strive to attain the highest level of national success that our other programs attain” . If even be. Ok with JMU messaging around being among the best mid Major programs in the country in football and basketball. Get away from the FCS and Caa labels - JMU shouldn’t be defined by our division or conference. We should strive for more than that.

(03-27-2020 07:14 PM)Purplehazed Wrote:  First paragraph includes list of criteria of a coach at JMU,
"ties to our conference"

Why say that? It sounds like caa love. I am probably reading into it too much because Bourne is not a decision maker anyway.

I don’t think that sounds like CAA love so much as it just being a positive that Byington is familiar with JMU, the area, and the conference we’re in.

(03-27-2020 08:28 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 07:14 PM)Purplehazed Wrote:  First paragraph includes list of criteria of a coach at JMU,
"ties to our conference"

Why say that? It sounds like caa love. I am probably reading into it too much because Bourne is not a decision maker anyway.

I don’t think that sounds like CAA love so much as it just being a positive that Byington is familiar with JMU, the area, and the conference we’re in.

I thank the admin for what they have done and I look forward to change (the truth, I am terrified) so the sleeping giant Bourne references in his latest dialogue is given a chance to be woke.

We need new blood.

(03-27-2020 08:07 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Would feel so much better if JMU started branding as “we strive to attain the highest level of national success that our other programs attain” . If even be. Ok with JMU messaging around being among the best mid Major programs in the country in football and basketball. Get away from the FCS and Caa labels - JMU shouldn’t be defined by our division or conference. We should strive for more than that.

100% agree. We are quite simply, JMU. We need not be defined nor limited by our conference or division. Just be good. Our MBB doesn't have to be NCAA tourney bound every year, we just need to be good. That goes for every sport we participate, just be good. Be the standard knowing that some years luck will not be on our side, but some will be incredible. We have this across the board with the exception of MBB and BB is a work in progress. Be the envy of our peers with support, but never accept what we've endured the past four years in MBB.

There is no better situation monitor than JB. You are going to miss him.

Hey, remember when we monitored the FBS situation for over a decade and are still monitoring the situation while teams that were once our peers have been playing big boy football for years? That was/is cool, huh?

(03-27-2020 05:43 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 07:17 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 06:41 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  This may make it a little more obvious to those that haven’t looked into JMU’s spending.

JMU ‘s athletic spending has increased 8% in the last 4 years fueled almost exclusively by a 12% increase in student fee revenue. It doesn’t matter how many line item accounting excuses you make, spending is up 8%.
How much do you think men’s basketball spending has increased? Well, it hasn’t. In fact it has Decreased 12% in the last four years (I backed out Brady’s severance because that would make the gap look artificially larger).

BTW, for reference, spending has increased in Olympic sports by 14% in those same 4 years.

2020 was supposed to be a pinnacle year for JMU basketball, but Alger and Bourne have been asleep at the wheel for several years.
Does anyone feel like they have prepared and planned for this monumental year like competent leaders do? Is there any penalty for them?

And why was 2020 supposed to be a “pinnacle year” for JMU basketball?
You conveniently are arguing out of both sides of an illogical stance.

On the one hand you want to claim it’s a “pinnacle year” (because of the new arena...which Alger, CK and JB helped bring online), and yet, on the other hand you want to argue Alger, CK and JB are not competent leaders and should be punished because in your mind they haven’t “prepared and planned for this monumental year.” What evidence do you present that Alger and company haven’t prepared or planned?

The very people you’re criticizing helped bring the new arena online. This development did not happen by happy accident. It took skill and planning out the wazzoo to make this happen on JMU’s campus. But you want us to believe that now, because they canned a bad coach and didn’t hire Rick Pitino, or some similar pie-in-the-sky HC, they are unprepared to open the new arena.

Sorry. I’m not buying your take on where JMU is in prepping to start a new era in MBB. Not by a long shot. I’m cautiously optimistic that the new HC is the right guy, and the closer we get to the new season all of your negativity about “prepping and planning” will be revealed as seriously silly talk.

You can be optimistic if you feel that is reasonable. However, you have to admit the program is at the bottom of its existence coming off of 4 straight losing years culminating in a last place 9-21(2-16) season. We couldn’t be in a worse starting position if we tried. Wouldn’t it be wise having strong momentum heading into such a critical year?

Building a $100 million SEac level arena = great! I agree.
Failing to properly fund the basketball program, specifically coaching salary = terrible.

My take is that the head coach is way more important than the building. If you feel the building is more important than the coach you are allowed to have that opinion.

Personally, I would rather JMU had stuck with the original plan from 2011 to spend $5 - $10 million sprucing up the Convo and buying a modern videoboard. Then using money to pay a coach $1 million/year to get the best.

How about we set a nice gentlemanly wager on attendance in year one of the AUBC once the schedule is finalized. UVA will sell out for sure. All the rest of the home games will determine did JMU completely screw up the inaugural year of a Taj Mahal arena. So the bet might even help determine if this is all is silly talk. Maybe another gentlemanly wager on the JMU’s record since it is possible the won-loss record won’t correspond directly with the attendance.
You only get one grand opening year and the new car smell wears off pretty darn quick. If we are shooting to bring back the electric zoo and actual fans sitting in their paid seats by year 2 or 3 of the new arena, then I call that gross negligence.

This has nothing to do with if we think Byington can be successful eventually.

No disagreement about where the MBB program is today, which is much worse than where it was when MB was let go. The hiring of LR was a huge mistake and it wasted 4 years of potential progress.

Totally disagree about your notion of investing in trying to fix the Convo. It was, and remains a dump and horrible venue for watching basketball.

I also strongly disagree that anything has been “screwed up” about having a successful inaugural debut season in the new arena. You write that your attitude about the potential success of the new HC doesn’t have anything to do with your outlook, but frankly it reeks that you disagree with the hire, because you offer no other rational explanation other than the hire about why you think the upcoming inaugural season in the new arena has (again to use your phrase) been “screwed up.”

The convo was off brand with the rest of JMU athletics. It was antiquated and you felt that both in person and on TV/stream. You build for the future not for the present. You build for what your needs will be the next 20 years. That factors in continued growth of JMU and the surrounding community. A new arena was a pre-requisite for the basketball programs and for the athletics program as a whole to get to where we want to be mid and long term. Regardless of the coach and the success of the program you don't want a facility to hold you back. Facilities come first- just look at the ODU football stadium debacle. You don't put the cart before the horse. Also you are comparing the finances of $1M in current head coaching salary to the spend for a facility that uses bonds and state funds (and donations) to pay for it's big price tag over the course of decades. They aren't quite the same on a balance sheet.

I agree they can spend more on a coach and that they should have been all along. I think they have taken steps towards that. I expect the assistant pool to be bigger as well. I really believe in 3-5 years we will be paying our head coach closer to $750K.

(03-27-2020 05:43 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 07:17 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 06:41 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  This may make it a little more obvious to those that haven’t looked into JMU’s spending.

JMU ‘s athletic spending has increased 8% in the last 4 years fueled almost exclusively by a 12% increase in student fee revenue. It doesn’t matter how many line item accounting excuses you make, spending is up 8%.
How much do you think men’s basketball spending has increased? Well, it hasn’t. In fact it has Decreased 12% in the last four years (I backed out Brady’s severance because that would make the gap look artificially larger).

BTW, for reference, spending has increased in Olympic sports by 14% in those same 4 years.

2020 was supposed to be a pinnacle year for JMU basketball, but Alger and Bourne have been asleep at the wheel for several years.
Does anyone feel like they have prepared and planned for this monumental year like competent leaders do? Is there any penalty for them?

And why was 2020 supposed to be a “pinnacle year” for JMU basketball?
You conveniently are arguing out of both sides of an illogical stance.

On the one hand you want to claim it’s a “pinnacle year” (because of the new arena...which Alger, CK and JB helped bring online), and yet, on the other hand you want to argue Alger, CK and JB are not competent leaders and should be punished because in your mind they haven’t “prepared and planned for this monumental year.” What evidence do you present that Alger and company haven’t prepared or planned?

The very people you’re criticizing helped bring the new arena online. This development did not happen by happy accident. It took skill and planning out the wazzoo to make this happen on JMU’s campus. But you want us to believe that now, because they canned a bad coach and didn’t hire Rick Pitino, or some similar pie-in-the-sky HC, they are unprepared to open the new arena.

Sorry. I’m not buying your take on where JMU is in prepping to start a new era in MBB. Not by a long shot. I’m cautiously optimistic that the new HC is the right guy, and the closer we get to the new season all of your negativity about “prepping and planning” will be revealed as seriously silly talk.

You can be optimistic if you feel that is reasonable. However, you have to admit the program is at the bottom of its existence coming off of 4 straight losing years culminating in a last place 9-21(2-16) season. We couldn’t be in a worse starting position if we tried. Wouldn’t it be wise having strong momentum heading into such a critical year?

Building a $100 million SEac level arena = great! I agree.
Failing to properly fund the basketball program, specifically coaching salary = terrible.

My take is that the head coach is way more important than the building. If you feel the building is more important than the coach you are allowed to have that opinion.

Personally, I would rather JMU had stuck with the original plan from 2011 to spend $5 - $10 million sprucing up the Convo and buying a modern videoboard. Then using money to pay a coach $1 million/year to get the best.

How about we set a nice gentlemanly wager on attendance in year one of the AUBC once the schedule is finalized. UVA will sell out for sure. All the rest of the home games will determine did JMU completely screw up the inaugural year of a Taj Mahal arena. So the bet might even help determine if this is all is silly talk. Maybe another gentlemanly wager on the JMU’s record since it is possible the won-loss record won’t correspond directly with the attendance.
You only get one grand opening year and the new car smell wears off pretty darn quick. If we are shooting to bring back the electric zoo and actual fans sitting in their paid seats by year 2 or 3 of the new arena, then I call that gross negligence.

This has nothing to do with if we think Byington can be successful eventually.

I agree. We could have spent that money more wisely, in my opinion. Now, we have a "Taj Mahal" arena, as you call it, and a bargain-basement coach. The Taj Mahal is worthless without a winning team.

I wish we had advertised that our BBHC was a million-dollar a year job. Then, the quality of our candidate pool would have been much deeper. If, after the interviewing process, Byington came out on top, hire him! If he could beat out the caliber of that pack, he deserves his million dollars a year.

(03-28-2020 09:58 AM)Purple Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 05:43 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 07:17 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 06:41 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  This may make it a little more obvious to those that haven’t looked into JMU’s spending.

JMU ‘s athletic spending has increased 8% in the last 4 years fueled almost exclusively by a 12% increase in student fee revenue. It doesn’t matter how many line item accounting excuses you make, spending is up 8%.
How much do you think men’s basketball spending has increased? Well, it hasn’t. In fact it has Decreased 12% in the last four years (I backed out Brady’s severance because that would make the gap look artificially larger).

BTW, for reference, spending has increased in Olympic sports by 14% in those same 4 years.

2020 was supposed to be a pinnacle year for JMU basketball, but Alger and Bourne have been asleep at the wheel for several years.
Does anyone feel like they have prepared and planned for this monumental year like competent leaders do? Is there any penalty for them?

And why was 2020 supposed to be a “pinnacle year” for JMU basketball?
You conveniently are arguing out of both sides of an illogical stance.

On the one hand you want to claim it’s a “pinnacle year” (because of the new arena...which Alger, CK and JB helped bring online), and yet, on the other hand you want to argue Alger, CK and JB are not competent leaders and should be punished because in your mind they haven’t “prepared and planned for this monumental year.” What evidence do you present that Alger and company haven’t prepared or planned?

The very people you’re criticizing helped bring the new arena online. This development did not happen by happy accident. It took skill and planning out the wazzoo to make this happen on JMU’s campus. But you want us to believe that now, because they canned a bad coach and didn’t hire Rick Pitino, or some similar pie-in-the-sky HC, they are unprepared to open the new arena.

Sorry. I’m not buying your take on where JMU is in prepping to start a new era in MBB. Not by a long shot. I’m cautiously optimistic that the new HC is the right guy, and the closer we get to the new season all of your negativity about “prepping and planning” will be revealed as seriously silly talk.

You can be optimistic if you feel that is reasonable. However, you have to admit the program is at the bottom of its existence coming off of 4 straight losing years culminating in a last place 9-21(2-16) season. We couldn’t be in a worse starting position if we tried. Wouldn’t it be wise having strong momentum heading into such a critical year?

Building a $100 million SEac level arena = great! I agree.
Failing to properly fund the basketball program, specifically coaching salary = terrible.

My take is that the head coach is way more important than the building. If you feel the building is more important than the coach you are allowed to have that opinion.

Personally, I would rather JMU had stuck with the original plan from 2011 to spend $5 - $10 million sprucing up the Convo and buying a modern videoboard. Then using money to pay a coach $1 million/year to get the best.

How about we set a nice gentlemanly wager on attendance in year one of the AUBC once the schedule is finalized. UVA will sell out for sure. All the rest of the home games will determine did JMU completely screw up the inaugural year of a Taj Mahal arena. So the bet might even help determine if this is all is silly talk. Maybe another gentlemanly wager on the JMU’s record since it is possible the won-loss record won’t correspond directly with the attendance.
You only get one grand opening year and the new car smell wears off pretty darn quick. If we are shooting to bring back the electric zoo and actual fans sitting in their paid seats by year 2 or 3 of the new arena, then I call that gross negligence.

This has nothing to do with if we think Byington can be successful eventually.

I agree. We could have spent that money more wisely, in my opinion. Now, we have a "Taj Mahal" arena, as you call it, and a bargain-basement coach. The Taj Mahal is worthless without a winning team.

I wish we had advertised that our BBHC was a million-dollar a year job. Then, the quality of our candidate pool would have been much deeper. If, after the interviewing process, Byington came out on top, hire him! If he could beat out the caliber of that pack, he deserves his million dollars a year.

Eh, know you were being a bit rhetorical, but “beating out” whoever would have responded for bigger pay doesn’t automatically make MB’s current value double what we offered, which is already a substantial increase for him. Would have liked to see us swing a bit higher, but there’s no guarantee we would have had a Pitino or JT III interviewing at that price.

Let’s all hope the admin got lucky this time and in 3 or 4 years we are debating whether to offer MB that level of money to stay.

(03-28-2020 01:00 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(03-28-2020 09:58 AM)Purple Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 05:43 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 07:17 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 06:41 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  This may make it a little more obvious to those that haven’t looked into JMU’s spending.

JMU ‘s athletic spending has increased 8% in the last 4 years fueled almost exclusively by a 12% increase in student fee revenue. It doesn’t matter how many line item accounting excuses you make, spending is up 8%.
How much do you think men’s basketball spending has increased? Well, it hasn’t. In fact it has Decreased 12% in the last four years (I backed out Brady’s severance because that would make the gap look artificially larger).

BTW, for reference, spending has increased in Olympic sports by 14% in those same 4 years.

2020 was supposed to be a pinnacle year for JMU basketball, but Alger and Bourne have been asleep at the wheel for several years.
Does anyone feel like they have prepared and planned for this monumental year like competent leaders do? Is there any penalty for them?

And why was 2020 supposed to be a “pinnacle year” for JMU basketball?
You conveniently are arguing out of both sides of an illogical stance.

On the one hand you want to claim it’s a “pinnacle year” (because of the new arena...which Alger, CK and JB helped bring online), and yet, on the other hand you want to argue Alger, CK and JB are not competent leaders and should be punished because in your mind they haven’t “prepared and planned for this monumental year.” What evidence do you present that Alger and company haven’t prepared or planned?

The very people you’re criticizing helped bring the new arena online. This development did not happen by happy accident. It took skill and planning out the wazzoo to make this happen on JMU’s campus. But you want us to believe that now, because they canned a bad coach and didn’t hire Rick Pitino, or some similar pie-in-the-sky HC, they are unprepared to open the new arena.

Sorry. I’m not buying your take on where JMU is in prepping to start a new era in MBB. Not by a long shot. I’m cautiously optimistic that the new HC is the right guy, and the closer we get to the new season all of your negativity about “prepping and planning” will be revealed as seriously silly talk.

You can be optimistic if you feel that is reasonable. However, you have to admit the program is at the bottom of its existence coming off of 4 straight losing years culminating in a last place 9-21(2-16) season. We couldn’t be in a worse starting position if we tried. Wouldn’t it be wise having strong momentum heading into such a critical year?

Building a $100 million SEac level arena = great! I agree.
Failing to properly fund the basketball program, specifically coaching salary = terrible.

My take is that the head coach is way more important than the building. If you feel the building is more important than the coach you are allowed to have that opinion.

Personally, I would rather JMU had stuck with the original plan from 2011 to spend $5 - $10 million sprucing up the Convo and buying a modern videoboard. Then using money to pay a coach $1 million/year to get the best.

How about we set a nice gentlemanly wager on attendance in year one of the AUBC once the schedule is finalized. UVA will sell out for sure. All the rest of the home games will determine did JMU completely screw up the inaugural year of a Taj Mahal arena. So the bet might even help determine if this is all is silly talk. Maybe another gentlemanly wager on the JMU’s record since it is possible the won-loss record won’t correspond directly with the attendance.
You only get one grand opening year and the new car smell wears off pretty darn quick. If we are shooting to bring back the electric zoo and actual fans sitting in their paid seats by year 2 or 3 of the new arena, then I call that gross negligence.

This has nothing to do with if we think Byington can be successful eventually.

I agree. We could have spent that money more wisely, in my opinion. Now, we have a "Taj Mahal" arena, as you call it, and a bargain-basement coach. The Taj Mahal is worthless without a winning team.

I wish we had advertised that our BBHC was a million-dollar a year job. Then, the quality of our candidate pool would have been much deeper. If, after the interviewing process, Byington came out on top, hire him! If he could beat out the caliber of that pack, he deserves his million dollars a year.

Eh, know you were being a bit rhetorical, but “beating out” whoever would have responded for bigger pay doesn’t automatically make MB’s current value double what we offered, which is already a substantial increase for him. Would have liked to see us swing a bit higher, but there’s no guarantee we would have had a Pitino or JT III interviewing at that price.

Let’s all hope the admin got lucky this time and in 3 or 4 years we are debating whether to offer MB that level of money to stay.

Yep, let's just wish Coach B the best. If he hits it out of the park next year, I'm sure the admin will take care of him anyway.