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The VEA is not a union.

The VEA is not a union.

The VEA is not a union.

And I'll say it again for the people in back if need be.

Can we start a Part II?

Maybe I’m not seeing the whole picture, but it looks to me like you guys are projecting too much power to these teacher unions or pseudo-unions. The decision to open or close schools rest directly with the school board. They must weigh all of the opinions of teachers unions, health and science advisors, and parents to come to the best decision. Many schools are open right now. Are you suggesting that the teachers unions didn’t have enough influence in those particular school districts? If so, then maybe they don’t wield the level of powers you are asserting.

I can’t really blame any group of people or profession from organizing and lobbying for their cause. I really haven’t seen any strong arm tactics employed. Teachers have opted out, but I haven’t seen the threat of an organized strike. I really thing the school boards are to blame. They are covering their poop holes.

Also, I’m with Grommet regarding the length of this thread. When it takes more that 30 seconds for a post to process it gets a little annoying.

(11-21-2020 12:53 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  Maybe I’m not seeing the whole picture, but it looks to me like you guys are projecting too much power to these teacher unions or pseudo-unions. The decision to open or close schools rest directly with the school board. They must weigh all of the opinions of teachers unions, health and science advisors, and parents to come to the best decision. Many schools are open right now. Are you suggesting that the teachers unions didn’t have enough influence in those particular school districts? If so, then maybe they don’t wield the level of powers you are asserting.

I can’t really blame any group of people or profession from organizing and lobbying for their cause. I really haven’t seen any strong arm tactics employed. Teachers have opted out, but I haven’t seen the threat of an organized strike. I really thing the school boards are to blame. They are covering their poop holes.

I can. Unions (or even “voluntary” pseudo-unions such as the VEA) have a legitimate purpose in the private sector, where bargaining power will more often than not favor management/ownership. But they have no equivalent purpose in the public sector, where management/ownership is the taxpayer.

The taxpayer will have virtually no say in the process. They instead are the fatted calf awaiting slaughter at the combined alter of the teachers’ union and school board - - particularly in jurisdictions in which the school board is elected and essentially “on the take” for political contributions.

It is complete b.s. in normal times. It is appalling in the present circumstances, in which the unions are using their leverage to NOT do their jobs.

(11-21-2020 01:52 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-21-2020 12:53 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  Maybe I’m not seeing the whole picture, but it looks to me like you guys are projecting too much power to these teacher unions or pseudo-unions. The decision to open or close schools rest directly with the school board. They must weigh all of the opinions of teachers unions, health and science advisors, and parents to come to the best decision. Many schools are open right now. Are you suggesting that the teachers unions didn’t have enough influence in those particular school districts? If so, then maybe they don’t wield the level of powers you are asserting.

I can’t really blame any group of people or profession from organizing and lobbying for their cause. I really haven’t seen any strong arm tactics employed. Teachers have opted out, but I haven’t seen the threat of an organized strike. I really thing the school boards are to blame. They are covering their poop holes.

I can. Unions (or even “voluntary” pseudo-unions such as the VEA) have a legitimate purpose in the private sector, where bargaining power will more often than not favor management/ownership. But they have no equivalent purpose in the public sector, where management/ownership is the taxpayer.

The taxpayer will have virtually no say in the process. They instead are the fatted calf awaiting slaughter at the combined alter of the teachers’ union and school board - - particularly in jurisdictions in which the school board is elected and essentially “on the take” for political contributions.

It is complete b.s. in normal times. It is appalling in the present circumstances, in which the unions are using their leverage to NOT do their jobs.

TIL AM was a drama major.

Also, VEA is not a union.

(11-21-2020 12:08 PM)Grommet Wrote:  The VEA is not a union.

You’re right. If biological males can identify as females in order to set high school and collegiate records, and displace the opportunities that otherwise would available to natural born girls, then sure - - why not just go along with the notion that a multimillion-dollar, industry lobbyist is just another grass-roots organization?

All they want, after all, is money for nothing. It’s the American way.

(11-21-2020 06:33 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-21-2020 12:08 PM)Grommet Wrote:  The VEA is not a union.

You’re right. If biological males can identify as females in order to set high school and collegiate records, and displace the opportunities that otherwise would available to natural born girls, then sure - - why not just go along with the notion that a multimillion-dollar, industry lobbyist is just another grass-roots organization?

All they want, after all, is money for nothing. It’s the American way.

Grommet has a point. Maybe not a drama major, but you do have a flair for the dramatic. Multimillion-dollar industry lobbyist and grass roots organization are not mutually exclusive. Show me a lobbying group that doesn’t have at least a million to spend.

Taxpayers have a say in the process because they can vote out those who represent them. But majority rules. I may not like what the Norfolk School Board is doing, but if the majority of people do then they will remain. Nothing you have said so far leads me to believe that teachers unions have overwhelming power and that schools boards aren’t the ultimate decision-makers.

Regarding the notion that teachers are trying to get out of work: if they don’t work, they don’t get paid. Maybe you consider virtual learning to be “not working”. You can argue how effective it is, you can even argue that they should take a pay cut, but teachers are still teaching.

It bothers me not at all that posters as smart and as civically engaged as Grommet and Chillie consider me a drama queen. But it bothers me a great deal that these smart/engaged posters are so passively accepting of the corrosion of the American economy and personal liberties.

The damage done to my business and to my planned retirement by the 2020 lockdown has already happened. I hope that you both fared better than I, but at this point there is not much else that I need to be concerned about. My business is pared down to near start-up level. My wife and I have cancelled a post-retirement investment that we were considering. My employees are bracing for the worst, but I suspect that we’ll all get by. My kids are graduated and self-supporting, and they have not yet started families.

So whatever the Governor does next with another needless lockdown, or whatever the teachers choose to do or don’t do with their own profession, is not going to affect me or my immediate family directly.

I am nevertheless somewhat sad to see so many people so willingly accept such politically driven selfishness, and frankly a form of child abuse, by an organization that pretends to be for our children. Tell me, what other “essential” industry are we in favor of handling their jobs remotely? Firemen? Police? Nursing? Paramedical? Waste disposal? Truck drivers? Grocery stockers? Fuel suppliers? I suspect that the answer to that is none.

I honestly don’t understand what makes teachers so special. Please explain it in a way that even a drama queen can understand.

Damn. I wrote a whole thing, got the bright idea to start a 'Thread Part II' because of the lag in posting and accidentally deleted the whole ******* thing. Poop.

Short version of the post I deleted:

[In haste, originally included over-the-top commentary on AM's woes. Apologies to AM. No one should have to see Their Baby wrecked]

Conversely, we've had one of our better years. The 1%ers who make up the majority of our work aren't scared, they're actually spending more even on non-essential services such as mine.

A bit about this board versus the other boards I visit. Here: zero MDs that I'm aware of, link Daily Caller and the Blaze, argue about why teachers suck. Other board I visit most frequently: 6-10 MDs across the US including one who is an epidemiologist, link clinicaltrials.gov, Trevor Bedford, and Daily Covid Tracker, discussing how pharma is able to use mRNA without inflammation seen in previous mRNA vaccines.

The VEA is not a union. IRL, had an uncle who worked his way up from a local shop to national VP of a union. His conversations with past presidents on labor/labor unions are included in National Archives. Vast, vast differences between say Teamsters and VEA. The VEA is not a union.

Essential jobs: Doctors, pharmacy, shoot even contractors now do video consultations.

As an aside buddy in RIC who works for Top 50 pharma co says all who are able have been told to work from home until Jul 6 2021, extended from Jan 1 2021.

(11-22-2020 07:32 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  It bothers me not at all that posters as smart and as civically engaged as Grommet and Chillie consider me a drama queen. But it bothers me a great deal that these smart/engaged posters are so passively accepting of the corrosion of the American economy and personal liberties.

The damage done to my business and to my planned retirement by the 2020 lockdown has already happened. I hope that you both fared better than I, but at this point there is not much else that I need to be concerned about. My business is pared down to near start-up level. My wife and I have cancelled a post-retirement investment that we were considering. My employees are bracing for the worst, but I suspect that we’ll all get by. My kids are graduated and self-supporting, and they have not yet started families.

So whatever the Governor does next with another needless lockdown, or whatever the teachers choose to do or don’t do with their own profession, is not going to affect me or my immediate family directly.

I am nevertheless somewhat sad to see so many people so willingly accept such politically driven selfishness, and frankly a form of child abuse, by an organization that pretends to be for our children. Tell me, what other “essential” industry are we in favor of handling their jobs remotely? Firemen? Police? Nursing? Paramedical? Waste disposal? Truck drivers? Grocery stockers? Fuel suppliers? I suspect that the answer to that is none.

I honestly don’t understand what makes teachers so special. Please explain it in a way that even a drama queen can understand.

I’m not sure what teachers unions are pretending to be, but their primary purpose is to promote the well being of teachers. That is not selfishness. That’s how all unions work. There are many groups that promote the welfare of our children. They are not necessarily in contrast with each other. In this particular case, they appear to be. That is far from child abuse, however.

For the record, I am a proponent of opening schools. I think the science supports it and I think it is good for the health and well being of the children, and worth the risk of any increased transmission to the general public. But I am not blaming the unions for the failures of the school boards to properly weigh the evidence and make decisions that I would agree with. I applaud Chesapeake for making a decision that I agree with, and I boo Norfolk for one that I disagree with. I live in Norfolk, so I have to live with that for now, but they have heard my opinion and will hear it again at election time.

To answer your question of what other essential jobs are we in favor of handling remotely? If you are following the pandemic definition of essential, that would include many businesses. My response would be whatever jobs that can be handled efficiently from a remote distance. It’s hard to pin down a whole profession without looking at individual job descriptions. Police? No. Police dispatchers? Maybe.

(11-22-2020 09:05 AM)Grommet Wrote:  Damn. I wrote a whole thing, got the bright idea to start a 'Thread Part II' because of the lag in posting and accidentally deleted the whole ******* thing. Poop.

It was probably for the best. If you are going to write a diatribe, it is best to write it up in a separate document and then read it beginning to end before pasting it.