I wanted to share this on a separate thread.

One of the things I enjoy most about this tourney is the chance to see nearly all teams play in one day - also the participation from all the schools bands, cheer squads, dancers, etc.

The Tribe pep band was again in great spirits last night. I always appreciate their attendance as I can remember the days when W&M was the ONLY school that didn’t send a band to the tourney.

I know this is student run so I don’t want my comments to be taken the wrong way. Our band really pales in their sound vs all the others yesterday. They aren’t loud and they don’t sound all that great. All the other bands had a much better sound, loud and well tuned.

I’m not sure what we are missing. I thought maybe it’s brass. It sounds like we have nothing but woodwinds, some drummers and a tuba. Anyone who saw the Northeastern band, the Elon band, the Charleston band, Towson - they were all terrific and seemed primarily brass which is what you should want in a pep band.

IIRC, our band is not just student-run, but they all provide their own instruments. We're missing a lot of brass, but that's because the people in the band don't own brass.

Ours is also basically just a club. Some schools have band count as a class/be for credit, or even pay them to be at games

(03-10-2020 12:20 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  Ours is also basically just a club. Some schools have band count as a class/be for credit, or even pay them to be at games

If things haven't changed at JMU since 2017, my son was in the marching band (two credit class) and the Pep Band (no credits, but paid on a sliding scale based on years of participation) between 2013-17. Both required HOURS of practice each week. We purchased a new, professional-level trombone for his senior season of high school...he never had to play it once at JMU: all of their trombones were provided by the school, as were most other section's instruments.

JMU pep band also does not use woodwinds (except for saxophones). I'd bet over half of the W&M pep band is clarinets and flutes. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but there's your difference in decibels.

Loved the bands overall, but when I sat in Sections 111 and 112, the bass on the PA system was set so high the seats vibrated.

The Tribe pep band had a lot of participants, which is nice, but they did sound like they could have benefited form more practice.

Davidson't pep band always sounds better at the tournament, because you have to show up for a certain umber of practices to get the trip to the tourney.

The JMU, Drexel, Elon and UNCW bands were all good on Saturday. It was a good thing they were there since they made up about half the crowd.

Overall impressed with the cheer squads and dance teams at the tourney.

I go to lots of college basketball games in many venues, and I have been shocked at how much spandex will stretch these days.

The most impressive part of your pep band at Saturday’s game was the guy conducting (<-generous description, but I digress...) somehow moves his feet to a different beat than his arms. It would be impressive...if it was somehow on purpose...

You have to invest money to get the product you want. You would likely have a different band if you paid brass players $25/game.

You have to assume the other schools are pulling most of the kids from their music schools too. W&M music department does not compare.

Believe the students at W&M on spring break and it appeared band, just as it was at the final Sr. Day game at Kaplan,
was at around half strength.

Hard to believe people are dissing Pep Band and even the music department. Personally, these kids do a great job and, really, does anyone really know how our Music Department is? All I know is they put on some wonderful musical events
at the downtown theater with many talented music students performing.

Surprised the Shaver adherents aren't blaming Tony's departure for the so-called decline in the Pep Band.

I'd love for the Athletics Department to invigorate support and interest in the pep band. I agree that our band often is very spirited but not as loud or as good as the bands from other schools. I would donate a little extra money to support the band, if I knew the school was backing them more. Not sure if others would, though.

(03-11-2020 05:41 AM)bubbadog57 Wrote:  Believe the students at W&M on spring break and it appeared band, just as it was at the final Sr. Day game at Kaplan,
was at around half strength.

Hard to believe people are dissing Pep Band and even the music department. Personally, these kids do a great job and, really, does anyone really know how our Music Department is? All I know is they put on some wonderful musical events
at the downtown theater with many talented mbusic students performing.

Surprised the Shaver adherents aren't blaming Tony's departure for the so-called decline in the Pep Band.

Cut the lecture. I think people went out of their way not to present this as a diss, it's an observation. Our band pales vs the others. There are differences we get. Possibly there are some ways to improve what we have.

FWIW I was the Director of the Pep Band when I was in school (c/o 2008). I donate money (3 figures) to the Pep Band on One Tribe One Day (which I am pretty sure is counted as a Tribe Club donation vs a music department donation or student organization donation, but I might be wrong). I am the guy that picked out the Rugby shirts after we had to switch from the previous jersey-like things we had that had the feather logo on the back. JMU has the best music school in the state and has a giant marching band. How many music majors do they graduate each year compared to W&M? Most W&M music majors were double majors when I was there. In normal music programs you cannot double major in anything else because the time requirements are too intense for music alone. I do not think any students come to W&M with the goal of majoring in music and making that their career. I don't think W&M even offers a music education degree, just "music".

As Pep Band Director I was trying to get money between Athletics and the Student Government to help offset the cost of the shirts. We were somewhat of an oddball, not really being owned by the music department or the athletic department; we were sort of a club just like International Relations Club or whatever. The students in the band were paying for their own shirts. I don't know if they still do. Right now you have the students that choose to volunteer their time because they enjoy it, they might be buying their own shirts, and are definitely playing their own instruments (except the tubas and mellophones which are probably left over from the marching band days). They probably don't really rehearse (when I was there we had 1 hr rehearsal/week but then during 2nd semester they pretty much stopped due to multiple basketball games/week). And when they do rehearse they probably don't really dig into the music... they run through it to make sure it doesn't fall apart halfway through. Sounding good and not falling apart are not the same thing. And you are always stuck at the game with whatever musicians choose to show up that day, so instrumentation is not always reliable.

I think some targeted investment into the Pep Band from the Athletic Department could likely help the atmosphere at games for a very small (4 figures per year) amount of money. I would start with recruiting brass players for $20/game (maybe $25/30/35 for 2nd, 3rd, 4th year). Maybe could go in with the Music Department on some instruments.

Part of it also is the arrangements they have. They are stock arrangements. A school like JMU can probably have their music ed students arrange as many pep band charts as they want, while W&M is left to buy the $80 stock arrangements off of the internet. (And when I was there, we didn't really have any money to buy new music either... the band is not going to charge it's own members to raise money to buy music).

Music ed kids ain't arranging the JMU pep band music. They buy charts from people who write "custom" tunes for $$$. Swapping out bad charts for good ones is easily fixed with some effort. If there's money to buy bad stock charts, there's money to buy good charts.

(03-10-2020 10:06 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  You have to invest money to get the product you want. You would likely have a different band if you paid brass players $25/game.

You have to assume the other schools are pulling most of the kids from their music schools too. W&M music department does not compare.

Again, a single data point, but fairly recent: a small percentage of the JMU marching band and pep band are music majors. There were 40+ trombones in the marching band and (according to my son) maybe 4 or 5 were majoring in something music-related. Most are just kids that enjoy performing and playing music. (And some don't even understand the sports they're watching.)

The big difference is the money they have to support both marching and pep bands.

does appear fewer music majors than I thought in the JMU band. That said, they have more music majors in their marching band than all students in our pep band. So it is relative.

(03-11-2020 03:38 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Music ed kids ain't arranging the JMU pep band music. They buy charts from people who write "custom" tunes for $$$. Swapping out bad charts for good ones is easily fixed with some effort. If there's money to buy bad stock charts, there's money to buy good charts.

I'm talking about the crappy arrangements that cost $75 on the internet. JMU's arrangements seem more advanced than that, but perhaps they are not. I know some of the JMU music kids could make some solid arrangements.

Regardless, there is extremely minimal investment from W&M into the Pep Band so you get what you get.

(03-12-2020 10:08 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  does appear fewer music majors than I thought in the JMU band. That said, they have more music majors in their marching band than all students in our pep band. So it is relative.

(03-11-2020 03:38 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Music ed kids ain't arranging the JMU pep band music. They buy charts from people who write "custom" tunes for $$$. Swapping out bad charts for good ones is easily fixed with some effort. If there's money to buy bad stock charts, there's money to buy good charts.

I'm talking about the crappy arrangements that cost $75 on the internet. JMU's arrangements seem more advanced than that, but perhaps they are not. I know some of the JMU music kids could make some solid arrangements.

Regardless, there is extremely minimal investment from W&M into the Pep Band so you get what you get.

SG, assume you know. Do we not have a concert band and a choir? How are they managed in the system - and why wouldn't a pep band be a part of that?

Back in my day, we had a marching band, believe run by Dr Varner? What department managed that group?

(03-12-2020 10:08 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  I'm talking about the crappy arrangements that cost $75 on the internet. JMU's arrangements seem more advanced than that, but perhaps they are not. I know some of the JMU music kids could make some solid arrangements.

Regardless, there is extremely minimal investment from W&M into the Pep Band so you get what you get.

You're actually paying way more for a crappy stock chart than most any arranger would charge for something "custom". I've paid $50 for plenty of good, custom charts. You just have to make an effort to seek out someone to do that. It seems like there is minimal investment from the pep band, hence buying overpriced crappy charts. You are 100% right that JMU students could write some good arrangements, but I don't believe that's happening currently. I could be wrong. I'm not all that plugged in to that level of detail with JMU's band.

(03-13-2020 07:38 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(03-12-2020 10:08 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  does appear fewer music majors than I thought in the JMU band. That said, they have more music majors in their marching band than all students in our pep band. So it is relative.

(03-11-2020 03:38 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Music ed kids ain't arranging the JMU pep band music. They buy charts from people who write "custom" tunes for $$$. Swapping out bad charts for good ones is easily fixed with some effort. If there's money to buy bad stock charts, there's money to buy good charts.

I'm talking about the crappy arrangements that cost $75 on the internet. JMU's arrangements seem more advanced than that, but perhaps they are not. I know some of the JMU music kids could make some solid arrangements.

Regardless, there is extremely minimal investment from W&M into the Pep Band so you get what you get.

SG, assume you know. Do we not have a concert band and a choir? How are they managed in the system - and why wouldn't a pep band be a part of that?

Back in my day, we had a marching band, believe run by Dr Varner? What department managed that group?

There is a concert band, a jazz band, and a couple choirs (I think at least a mixed choir and a women's choir). And an orchestra (which might just be strings or it might be a full orchestra, idk). Dr Varner (before my time) ran the marching band and the concert band for sure, and I assume the jazz band as well.

I don't remember what year it was that the Marching Band died off, but the Pep Band formed as a student run group in 2000-ish. So it came into existence from student desire/ambition rather than as part of any department (either Athletic or Music) at W&M. Basically it was like frisbee club or any other student run club.

The concert band, jazz band, orchestra, and choirs, are taught as classes at W&M for one credit by faculty. The Pep Band is completely student run. (And I did verify that my pep band donations count as Tribe Club donations, so perhaps the Athletic Department has taken the role of funding support).

(03-13-2020 10:11 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  

(03-12-2020 10:08 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  I'm talking about the crappy arrangements that cost $75 on the internet. JMU's arrangements seem more advanced than that, but perhaps they are not. I know some of the JMU music kids could make some solid arrangements.

Regardless, there is extremely minimal investment from W&M into the Pep Band so you get what you get.

You're actually paying way more for a crappy stock chart than most any arranger would charge for something "custom". I've paid $50 for plenty of good, custom charts. You just have to make an effort to seek out someone to do that. It seems like there is minimal investment from the pep band, hence buying overpriced crappy charts. You are 100% right that JMU students could write some good arrangements, but I don't believe that's happening currently. I could be wrong. I'm not all that plugged in to that level of detail with JMU's band.

gotcha Hyper.

One of my goals when I was there that I never got around to was reach out to music schools in VA or to friends of pep band members in music schools elsewhere to see if we could get some college kids to arrange us some stuff. They definitely had some music this year that we did not have when I was there; I do not know where it came from. W&M doesn't really have the music school to support student arranging.

I’m legitimately happy to put them in touch with some quality, affordable arrangers if someone wants to PM me for contact info. Quality charts really do make a difference. I would also recommend they ditch the marching drums & find a few competent drumset players to cover the beats.