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ttgwm02 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Perspective
I reserve my nostalgia for Thunders ....

(03-11-2020 10:12 AM)TribePride91 Wrote:  
(03-11-2020 05:47 AM)bubbadog57 Wrote:  I guess Tony will eventually become like our old Feathers in a few more years. Still worth nostalgic conversation but long gone and not coming back to W&M.

No one has gained much in putting the other side down. Ignoring the good things he did just makes the discontent louder. If you could go back and watch Tribe games under Chuck Swenson or Rick Boyages, you would appreciate Tony more. Hopefully, we will all choose to appreciate Dane now.

It is unfortunate. It will be better for the college when they can welcome Tony back in some capacity(or at least honor him). I don't expect it to happen under the current leadership, but it would be better for all parties if it did. As for the feathers, it seems like they could be reinstated. Our mascot has feathers I believe.

Our basketball program is like a superhero with a secret identity. Nobody knows who we are.
03-11-2020 10:54 AM
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Sitting bull Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Perspective
(03-11-2020 05:47 AM)bubbadog57 Wrote:  I guess Tony will eventually become like our old Feathers in a few more years. Still worth nostalgic conversation but long gone and not coming back to W&M.

Unlike your long winded, bombastic and most often inaccurate commentaries.
03-11-2020 12:35 PM
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TribePride91 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Perspective
The CAA has been fairly chalky in its tournament. The only time W&M could have considered a favorite to win it was 2015.

There are as usual a few outliers like 2013 when JMU won. But, mostly the team expected to win going into the tournament has won. Just focusing on the years since the Tribe began winning 10 conference games per year:

2014- Delaware was the 1 seed
2015- See above, Northeastern #3
2016- Hofstra was the 1 seed, lost in OT to #2 UNCW
2017- UNCW #1(by far the best. most talented team in the last 8 years)
2018- Charleston #1 seed and the prior year runner up
2019- Northeastern #2 seed, and avenging a championship meltdown the season before.
2020- Hofstra #1 seed

So, I guess the goal for the program would be to be the favorite or as close to it as possible. Even though the Tribe was the #2 seed, they were the 5th or 6th choice this year according to the oddsmakers and computers. Doesn't erase the sting of losing to Elon, but it means they would have been underdogs. Admittedly, some might of thought we would be the #1 seed given the results in January(especially the rough wins at Hofstra and Northeastern). But, it was a very good year, especially given where it started.

Northeastern or Hofstra gets the award for the most consistent program and a constant contender. Until 2019, W&M and UNCW were also in that group.
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2020 12:56 PM by TribePride91.)
03-11-2020 12:52 PM
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A Quest Called Tribe Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Perspective
Honestly, going through all the turmoil and upheaval over the past year only to wind up in the same place (ugly loss in first round of CAAT) just feels like being cursed.

Dane Fischer, Tony Shaver, Sam Huge, Terry Driscoll, Charlie Woollum, Bruce Parkhill... does it even matter?

At this point maybe we should be wondering, whose billy goat did we offend? What burial ground are we desecrating?
03-11-2020 01:24 PM
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TribeGoldenAgeofBasketball Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Perspective
(03-10-2020 02:16 PM)Paulbintheburg Wrote:  I have been lurking around for a while and wanted to point a few things out.

-If not making the NCAA tourney is the goal, then why have a Basketball program? I think NJguy (or whatever) said the program shouldn't be judged by that, Really? So if your an account manager and garner a bunch of small accounts but miss the big one that could define you and could make you and your company tons of $$, it's ok, you shouldn't be defined by that? It is all about winning the conference and making the tournament, that is it, end of the book put it down.

-If I'm playing poker, and someone has to leave and hands me a hand that is a straight, I should by logic, come very close if not win the hand.

-There are two hoops programs at WM, one is guided by an experienced, well-respected coach, who has NCAA tourney bids on his resume, the other is not. Guess which one has a sky-high trajectory and which one doesn't?

You're missing the point here. A program is supposed to win the tournament, yes but the best way to do that is by maximizing the number of chances you have at winning the tourney. And that is through consistent excellence which this program had become accustomed to under Shaver. Basically your argument means if we beat Delaware in the championship, Shaver would stay. That's why it's a flawed argument.

Also Nate didnt have any other options here. He wouldnt have been drafted and he didnt graduate so unlike pierce and milon, he would have had to sit out a year and for someone with pro aspirations an extra year only hurts. So Samantha is just trying to join herself to a fan favorite.

This is also named perspective. And let's just look at what would have been from Samantha's eyes. If as you say all that matters is a championship...

Assume pierce and matt leave even with the staff getting fired and assume Owens still leaves because of personal problems(all tough assumptions), we still would have audige and cam brown and likely an unnamed transfer/other recruit. At a minimum, Luke audige brown vsn vliet knight. That alone likely wins the caa and gives us the perimeter threats we need. So that was worst case with Shaver staying which is still better than what we ended up with. So if championships are all that matter then why limit our chance at 1? Bc if we had won this year, it wouldnt have been Samantha's win and she couldn't have taken credit for it.
03-11-2020 01:50 PM
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tribalwarfare Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Perspective
(03-11-2020 01:50 PM)TribeGoldenAgeofBasketball Wrote:  Also Nate didnt have any other options here. He wouldnt have been drafted and he didnt graduate so unlike pierce and milon, he would have had to sit out a year and for someone with pro aspirations an extra year only hurts. So Samantha is just trying to join herself to a fan favorite.

I think this is probably the most irritating thing about Huge continuing to thank Knight for "choosing W&M and her vision, core values, etc.". He really just didn't have anywhere to go. We even got a little allusion to that from Dane in CAA postgame press conference when he said Nate "held out as long as he could" wrt the NBA draft. While I personally think Knight is a early-second round talent, he apparently didn't get those evaluations back so his pro-route would have had to be G-League or international (neither of which is the guaranteed $$/prestige of NBA draft pick). Transferring would have meant he'd be 2 years older before entering the NBA draft. Since I'd assume one of the bigger hold-ups on him from NBA evaluators was age, that would be untenable.

Fortunately, IMO, for him/W&M/Dane/Huge/everyone, he thrived in his final year here and developed a great relationship with the new staff and continued to flourish on the court and personally (as he has said), while carrying us this season (advanced stats estimate he was good for somewhere between 5-8 games vs. a replacement player).
03-11-2020 02:29 PM
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soccerguy315 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Perspective
(03-11-2020 10:54 AM)ttgwm02 Wrote:  I reserve my nostalgia for Thunders ....

(03-11-2020 10:12 AM)TribePride91 Wrote:  
(03-11-2020 05:47 AM)bubbadog57 Wrote:  I guess Tony will eventually become like our old Feathers in a few more years. Still worth nostalgic conversation but long gone and not coming back to W&M.

No one has gained much in putting the other side down. Ignoring the good things he did just makes the discontent louder. If you could go back and watch Tribe games under Chuck Swenson or Rick Boyages, you would appreciate Tony more. Hopefully, we will all choose to appreciate Dane now.

It is unfortunate. It will be better for the college when they can welcome Tony back in some capacity(or at least honor him). I don't expect it to happen under the current leadership, but it would be better for all parties if it did. As for the feathers, it seems like they could be reinstated. Our mascot has feathers I believe.

Our basketball program is like a superhero with a secret identity. Nobody knows who we are.

see you at the Tick Tock Tire!!! cheers!
03-11-2020 03:35 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Perspective
(03-11-2020 02:29 PM)tribalwarfare Wrote:  
(03-11-2020 01:50 PM)TribeGoldenAgeofBasketball Wrote:  Also Nate didnt have any other options here. He wouldnt have been drafted and he didnt graduate so unlike pierce and milon, he would have had to sit out a year and for someone with pro aspirations an extra year only hurts. So Samantha is just trying to join herself to a fan favorite.

I think this is probably the most irritating thing about Huge continuing to thank Knight for "choosing W&M and her vision, core values, etc.". He really just didn't have anywhere to go. We even got a little allusion to that from Dane in CAA postgame press conference when he said Nate "held out as long as he could" wrt the NBA draft. While I personally think Knight is a early-second round talent, he apparently didn't get those evaluations back so his pro-route would have had to be G-League or international (neither of which is the guaranteed $$/prestige of NBA draft pick). Transferring would have meant he'd be 2 years older before entering the NBA draft. Since I'd assume one of the bigger hold-ups on him from NBA evaluators was age, that would be untenable.

Fortunately, IMO, for him/W&M/Dane/Huge/everyone, he thrived in his final year here and developed a great relationship with the new staff and continued to flourish on the court and personally (as he has said), while carrying us this season (advanced stats estimate he was good for somewhere between 5-8 games vs. a replacement player).
This is a really strong post. Well done.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
03-11-2020 04:13 PM
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WMtribe17 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Perspective
The draft class being much weaker this year has helped Nate's stock also. Scouts have to be intrigued with his good dribbling ability for a guy that's 6'10". Still think he needs to bulk up a bit more or develop a better outside jumper
03-11-2020 04:15 PM
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nj alum Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Perspective
I hope everyone realizes that most of the Tony supporters will support Samantha and Dane when the rest of you want them canned .... for not making the Dance .... and we will support them for the same reasons that underlie our vehement objection to the way Tony was treated.
03-11-2020 04:27 PM
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Zorch Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Perspective
(03-11-2020 01:50 PM)TribeGoldenAgeofBasketball Wrote:  ...Bc if we had won this year, it wouldnt have been Samantha's win and she couldn't have taken credit for it.

Oh, she would have taken credit for it all right; she would most definitely have taken credit. (Now, whether she deserved it or not (as you say) is another issue).
03-11-2020 05:32 PM
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WMInTheBurg Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Perspective
(03-11-2020 01:50 PM)TribeGoldenAgeofBasketball Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 02:16 PM)Paulbintheburg Wrote:  I have been lurking around for a while and wanted to point a few things out.

-If not making the NCAA tourney is the goal, then why have a Basketball program? I think NJguy (or whatever) said the program shouldn't be judged by that, Really? So if your an account manager and garner a bunch of small accounts but miss the big one that could define you and could make you and your company tons of $$, it's ok, you shouldn't be defined by that? It is all about winning the conference and making the tournament, that is it, end of the book put it down.

-If I'm playing poker, and someone has to leave and hands me a hand that is a straight, I should by logic, come very close if not win the hand.

-There are two hoops programs at WM, one is guided by an experienced, well-respected coach, who has NCAA tourney bids on his resume, the other is not. Guess which one has a sky-high trajectory and which one doesn't?

You're missing the point here. A program is supposed to win the tournament, yes but the best way to do that is by maximizing the number of chances you have at winning the tourney. And that is through consistent excellence which this program had become accustomed to under Shaver. Basically your argument means if we beat Delaware in the championship, Shaver would stay. That's why it's a flawed argument.

Also Nate didnt have any other options here. He wouldnt have been drafted and he didnt graduate so unlike pierce and milon, he would have had to sit out a year and for someone with pro aspirations an extra year only hurts. So Samantha is just trying to join herself to a fan favorite.

This is also named perspective. And let's just look at what would have been from Samantha's eyes. If as you say all that matters is a championship...

Assume pierce and matt leave even with the staff getting fired and assume Owens still leaves because of personal problems(all tough assumptions), we still would have audige and cam brown and likely an unnamed transfer/other recruit. At a minimum, Luke audige brown vsn vliet knight. That alone likely wins the caa and gives us the perimeter threats we need. So that was worst case with Shaver staying which is still better than what we ended up with. So if championships are all that matter then why limit our chance at 1? Bc if we had won this year, it wouldnt have been Samantha's win and she couldn't have taken credit for it.

"Perspective"
03-11-2020 08:40 PM
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