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KickItToScotty Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Lou Rowe
CAA basketball certainly isn't what it used to be and JMU in the Convo was a pretty unattractive job but yeah, gotta mostly agree with LH here. Lou was a cheap hail mary hire that everyone knew was a massive long shot to be successful, Byington is a very solid hire who's been successful elsewhere and has shown he's qualified for this level of job.

Obviously the arena helps for attracting someone like Byington, but if we're thinking of them as gambles then Lou was throwing down some money on a single roulette number while Byington is more like betting on ace-king suited.
07-15-2021 01:13 PM
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Dukester Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Lou Rowe
(07-15-2021 01:13 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  CAA basketball certainly isn't what it used to be and JMU in the Convo was a pretty unattractive job but yeah, gotta mostly agree with LH here. Lou was a cheap hail mary hire that everyone knew was a massive long shot to be successful, Byington is a very solid hire who's been successful elsewhere and has shown he's qualified for this level of job.

Obviously the arena helps for attracting someone like Byington, but if we're thinking of them as gambles then Lou was throwing down some money on a single roulette number while Byington is more like betting on ace-king suited.

On the roulette wheel By might be more of the red or black, and Lou was more of the O

03-lmfao
07-15-2021 01:43 PM
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RamDawg Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Lou Rowe
(07-14-2021 03:56 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(07-14-2021 02:16 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  
(07-14-2021 10:30 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  I agree he's a much better assistant than HC, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility of him being a HC in the future. However, he needs to go through the growing pains at a lower division (heck, even HS to start) to be able to work out the problems and fix them.
JMU was a bad place for him to start as he had a lot to fix AND a lot to learn. Add onto that the pressure of the job and there's no wonder he didn't succeed.
If he starts in a place with a strong foundation, perhaps he can build off of that and learn skills. It would be a long process, but don't think it's impossible he couldn't be a good future HC. But to be a D-I HC, he needs to change a lot for that to happen.
It would be far less of a struggle for him to be a lifetime assistant and be quite successful in that area.

To add a thought: Look at JMU football where the program as a whole is strong. When a coach leaves for bigger and better things, you simply hire a quality staff that is attracted to the job/program and kind of just "reload". In modern times (10 or 15 years) I don't recall JMU being considered a strong basketball program where we can simply reload.

Basketball in CAA and JMU basketball currently isn't a place that attracts quality and/or proven MBB coaches. We are at a place that attracts coaches that are looking to work their way to the big time. We need to gamble a bit. Coaches like Brady (in 8 seasons .547) can find a home but those coaches that are consistently knocking out 20+ wins (.700) are likely to move on fairly quickly.

I loved the gamble JMU took on Coach Rowe, Being easy to look back now: Coach Rowe was pretty much set up for probable failure. Same with Coach B. but he seems to have something that hopefully continues the healing.

Rowe was never the right hire. It was a terrible “gamble” if you want to think of it as a “gamble”…there’s no rear-view, 20-20 “looking back” to revise the majority opinion at the time. LR just wasn’t ready. His hire was a confluence of several missteps. The administration didn’t want to invest the money in a proven HC was principal among them. As a result the search was doomed to failure from the beginning. The administration did the same thing with the Keener hire, and to a lesser degree when they hired Dillard because he was a valued alum of MBB.

The current JMU HC hire was not a “gamble” with comparables to LR, so I don’t get where that thought is coming from. MB was a seasoned HC who had previously worked as an assistant with a number of excellent mentors, both facts and the kind of experience LR lacked. I’ll conclude that your suggestion that the CAA is not a MBB league that attracts quality and/or proven coaches is simply not factual. There have been a number of excellent hires in the league, as well as a number of so-so hires. But CAA MBB has a solid rep, and suffers no more or no less than any other so-called mid-major in attracting and retaining coaching talent.

Well we can agree to disagree, The CAA is a one bid conference and likely will be for quite a while. Chances for post season bonuses, not good. Ease of recruiting true basketball talent, not good. Top HC pay in the CAA, not good. TV deals; not good. My opinion; The CAA is a stepping stone conference for HC's and with the "new" transfer rules, applies to athletes that excel.
07-19-2021 05:30 PM
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Dukester Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Lou Rowe
(07-19-2021 05:30 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  The CAA is a one bid conference and likely will be for quite a while. Chances for post season bonuses, not good. Ease of recruiting true basketball talent, not good. Top HC pay in the CAA, not good. TV deals; not good. My opinion; The CAA is a stepping stone conference for HC's and with the "new" transfer rules, applies to athletes that excel.

Can't find much not to agree to there. Additional no in-conference rivals (for JMU) which would be helpful for fan interest.

Great facilities.....
07-20-2021 10:24 AM
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Bawlmer Duke Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Lou Rowe
Coach Oppenheimer with the chance to get an NBA ring tonight if the Bucks knock off the Suns in game 6
07-20-2021 02:36 PM
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Longhorn Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Lou Rowe
(07-19-2021 05:30 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  
(07-14-2021 03:56 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(07-14-2021 02:16 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  
(07-14-2021 10:30 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  I agree he's a much better assistant than HC, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility of him being a HC in the future. However, he needs to go through the growing pains at a lower division (heck, even HS to start) to be able to work out the problems and fix them.
JMU was a bad place for him to start as he had a lot to fix AND a lot to learn. Add onto that the pressure of the job and there's no wonder he didn't succeed.
If he starts in a place with a strong foundation, perhaps he can build off of that and learn skills. It would be a long process, but don't think it's impossible he couldn't be a good future HC. But to be a D-I HC, he needs to change a lot for that to happen.
It would be far less of a struggle for him to be a lifetime assistant and be quite successful in that area.

To add a thought: Look at JMU football where the program as a whole is strong. When a coach leaves for bigger and better things, you simply hire a quality staff that is attracted to the job/program and kind of just "reload". In modern times (10 or 15 years) I don't recall JMU being considered a strong basketball program where we can simply reload.

Basketball in CAA and JMU basketball currently isn't a place that attracts quality and/or proven MBB coaches. We are at a place that attracts coaches that are looking to work their way to the big time. We need to gamble a bit. Coaches like Brady (in 8 seasons .547) can find a home but those coaches that are consistently knocking out 20+ wins (.700) are likely to move on fairly quickly.

I loved the gamble JMU took on Coach Rowe, Being easy to look back now: Coach Rowe was pretty much set up for probable failure. Same with Coach B. but he seems to have something that hopefully continues the healing.

Rowe was never the right hire. It was a terrible “gamble” if you want to think of it as a “gamble”…there’s no rear-view, 20-20 “looking back” to revise the majority opinion at the time. LR just wasn’t ready. His hire was a confluence of several missteps. The administration didn’t want to invest the money in a proven HC was principal among them. As a result the search was doomed to failure from the beginning. The administration did the same thing with the Keener hire, and to a lesser degree when they hired Dillard because he was a valued alum of MBB.

The current JMU HC hire was not a “gamble” with comparables to LR, so I don’t get where that thought is coming from. MB was a seasoned HC who had previously worked as an assistant with a number of excellent mentors, both facts and the kind of experience LR lacked. I’ll conclude that your suggestion that the CAA is not a MBB league that attracts quality and/or proven coaches is simply not factual. There have been a number of excellent hires in the league, as well as a number of so-so hires. But CAA MBB has a solid rep, and suffers no more or no less than any other so-called mid-major in attracting and retaining coaching talent.

Well we can agree to disagree, The CAA is a one bid conference and likely will be for quite a while. Chances for post season bonuses, not good. Ease of recruiting true basketball talent, not good. Top HC pay in the CAA, not good. TV deals; not good. My opinion; The CAA is a stepping stone conference for HC's and with the "new" transfer rules, applies to athletes that excel.

Being a one bid mid doesn’t make the CAA a bad MBB conference, it makes it exactly like most every other mid in existence. Judging a conference based on the pay for a HC is an odd perspective, however, as top CAA salaries in the $500k range are again no different than other mids. Your suggestion that the CAA is a “stepping stone” for HCs (which can be true) runs counter to your argument that the league is “not good”…i.e. how does an ambitious and talented HC move up (using the CAA as a “stepping stone”) if the CAA is so bad? As far as the new transfer rule goes only time will tell how it impacts not only the CAA, but all mids, and even some of the P5 teams. It’s a bit too early to use the new transfer rules to argue that alone will negatively impact the CAA.

The only big problem the CAA suffers as a mid is the one Dukester has long identified, and that’s the lack of rivals. When VCU, GMU and ODU left it definitely weakened the CAA, and certainly hurt the interest of JMU fans.
07-20-2021 05:57 PM
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olddawg Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Lou Rowe
(07-20-2021 05:57 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  The only big problem the CAA suffers as a mid is the one Dukester has long identified, and that’s the lack of rivals. When VCU, GMU and ODU left it definitely weakened the CAA, and certainly hurt the interest of JMU fans.


And Richmond in the mid 90s too.
07-20-2021 06:06 PM
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Longhorn Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Lou Rowe
(07-20-2021 06:06 PM)olddawg Wrote:  
(07-20-2021 05:57 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  The only big problem the CAA suffers as a mid is the one Dukester has long identified, and that’s the lack of rivals. When VCU, GMU and ODU left it definitely weakened the CAA, and certainly hurt the interest of JMU fans.


And Richmond in the mid 90s too.

Yes, agree.
07-20-2021 06:38 PM
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Bawlmer Duke Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Lou Rowe
(07-20-2021 02:36 PM)Bawlmer Duke Wrote:  Coach Oppenheimer with the chance to get an NBA ring tonight if the Bucks knock off the Suns in game 6

Coach Opp gets a ring, but misses on evaluating Giannis

Link to quote about evaluation
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2021 10:20 AM by Bawlmer Duke.)
07-21-2021 10:19 AM
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JMUNation Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Lou Rowe
(07-20-2021 06:38 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(07-20-2021 06:06 PM)olddawg Wrote:  
(07-20-2021 05:57 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  The only big problem the CAA suffers as a mid is the one Dukester has long identified, and that’s the lack of rivals. When VCU, GMU and ODU left it definitely weakened the CAA, and certainly hurt the interest of JMU fans.


And Richmond in the mid 90s too.

Yes, agree.

The lack of rivalries are what led to the downgrade of the conference. The schools that left are no better off and the schools left behind are worse off.

UR was all set to come back from the A10 and bring GW with them. VCU told ODU they were leaving for the A10 so ODU accepted the CUSA offer and the UR/GW deal blew up.

All four of those schools belong together in the CAA. That was and would be a great league for fans.
07-21-2021 04:44 PM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Lou Rowe
(07-21-2021 04:44 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  
(07-20-2021 06:38 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(07-20-2021 06:06 PM)olddawg Wrote:  
(07-20-2021 05:57 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  The only big problem the CAA suffers as a mid is the one Dukester has long identified, and that’s the lack of rivals. When VCU, GMU and ODU left it definitely weakened the CAA, and certainly hurt the interest of JMU fans.


And Richmond in the mid 90s too.

Yes, agree.

The lack of rivalries are what led to the downgrade of the conference. The schools that left are no better off and the schools left behind are worse off.

UR was all set to come back from the A10 and bring GW with them. VCU told ODU they were leaving for the A10 so ODU accepted the CUSA offer and the UR/GW deal blew up.

All four of those schools belong together in the CAA. That was and would be a great league for fans.

I remember in the 90s when the Metro broke up which led to Vcu joining the Colonial there was some speculation around Gw and Lasalle possibly joining. I’m not sure the CAA has ever demonstrated that they can go on offense the way the A 10 has. Even when the CAA had momentum with the final fours and nbc sports national deal they didn’t demonstrate a desire to grow and being in new members until they were forced to.
07-21-2021 05:45 PM
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RamDawg Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Lou Rowe
(07-20-2021 10:24 AM)Dukester Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 05:30 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  The CAA is a one bid conference and likely will be for quite a while. Chances for post season bonuses, not good. Ease of recruiting true basketball talent, not good. Top HC pay in the CAA, not good. TV deals; not good. My opinion; The CAA is a stepping stone conference for HC's and with the "new" transfer rules, applies to athletes that excel.

Can't find much not to agree to there. Additional no in-conference rivals (for JMU) which would be helpful for fan interest.

Great facilities.....

Once we get to being more competitive, with facilities and the potential fan base, JMU should be the Golden Boys of CAA Basketball. Being at the top of the CAA should open some doors to quality OCC opponents.
07-22-2021 12:43 PM
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RamDawg Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Lou Rowe
(07-20-2021 05:57 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 05:30 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  
(07-14-2021 03:56 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(07-14-2021 02:16 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  
(07-14-2021 10:30 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  I agree he's a much better assistant than HC, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility of him being a HC in the future. However, he needs to go through the growing pains at a lower division (heck, even HS to start) to be able to work out the problems and fix them.
JMU was a bad place for him to start as he had a lot to fix AND a lot to learn. Add onto that the pressure of the job and there's no wonder he didn't succeed.
If he starts in a place with a strong foundation, perhaps he can build off of that and learn skills. It would be a long process, but don't think it's impossible he couldn't be a good future HC. But to be a D-I HC, he needs to change a lot for that to happen.
It would be far less of a struggle for him to be a lifetime assistant and be quite successful in that area.

To add a thought: Look at JMU football where the program as a whole is strong. When a coach leaves for bigger and better things, you simply hire a quality staff that is attracted to the job/program and kind of just "reload". In modern times (10 or 15 years) I don't recall JMU being considered a strong basketball program where we can simply reload.

Basketball in CAA and JMU basketball currently isn't a place that attracts quality and/or proven MBB coaches. We are at a place that attracts coaches that are looking to work their way to the big time. We need to gamble a bit. Coaches like Brady (in 8 seasons .547) can find a home but those coaches that are consistently knocking out 20+ wins (.700) are likely to move on fairly quickly.

I loved the gamble JMU took on Coach Rowe, Being easy to look back now: Coach Rowe was pretty much set up for probable failure. Same with Coach B. but he seems to have something that hopefully continues the healing.

Rowe was never the right hire. It was a terrible “gamble” if you want to think of it as a “gamble”…there’s no rear-view, 20-20 “looking back” to revise the majority opinion at the time. LR just wasn’t ready. His hire was a confluence of several missteps. The administration didn’t want to invest the money in a proven HC was principal among them. As a result the search was doomed to failure from the beginning. The administration did the same thing with the Keener hire, and to a lesser degree when they hired Dillard because he was a valued alum of MBB.

The current JMU HC hire was not a “gamble” with comparables to LR, so I don’t get where that thought is coming from. MB was a seasoned HC who had previously worked as an assistant with a number of excellent mentors, both facts and the kind of experience LR lacked. I’ll conclude that your suggestion that the CAA is not a MBB league that attracts quality and/or proven coaches is simply not factual. There have been a number of excellent hires in the league, as well as a number of so-so hires. But CAA MBB has a solid rep, and suffers no more or no less than any other so-called mid-major in attracting and retaining coaching talent.

Well we can agree to disagree, The CAA is a one bid conference and likely will be for quite a while. Chances for post season bonuses, not good. Ease of recruiting true basketball talent, not good. Top HC pay in the CAA, not good. TV deals; not good. My opinion; The CAA is a stepping stone conference for HC's and with the "new" transfer rules, applies to athletes that excel.

Being a one bid mid doesn’t make the CAA a bad MBB conference, it makes it exactly like most every other mid in existence. Judging a conference based on the pay for a HC is an odd perspective, however, as top CAA salaries in the $500k range are again no different than other mids. Your suggestion that the CAA is a “stepping stone” for HCs (which can be true) runs counter to your argument that the league is “not good”…i.e. how does an ambitious and talented HC move up (using the CAA as a “stepping stone”) if the CAA is so bad? As far as the new transfer rule goes only time will tell how it impacts not only the CAA, but all mids, and even some of the P5 teams. It’s a bit too early to use the new transfer rules to argue that alone will negatively impact the CAA.

The only big problem the CAA suffers as a mid is the one Dukester has long identified, and that’s the lack of rivals. When VCU, GMU and ODU left it definitely weakened the CAA, and certainly hurt the interest of JMU fans.

CAA isn't bad basketball. The CAA isn't a place to attract and keep the best coaches. A CAA coach heads to the NCAAT a couple of years and wins a couple of games, he's going to be poached. The top coaches in the A-10, also a mid major are pulling in over $1m. Even Mooney (Ticks) has a base of $750K and not consistently good and has like a 10 year contract. Anthony Grant (Dayton) and Rhoades (VCU) are both pulling in well over $1.5M.

I'm not totally sold on rivalries, they do attract more fans. At some point, I would love to see VCU vs. JMU every year. However I'm more interested in playing quality opponents to boost our chances of playing post season. Post season, playing on TV is how programs grow.
07-22-2021 01:12 PM
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RamDawg Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Lou Rowe
(07-21-2021 05:45 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 04:44 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  
(07-20-2021 06:38 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(07-20-2021 06:06 PM)olddawg Wrote:  
(07-20-2021 05:57 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  The only big problem the CAA suffers as a mid is the one Dukester has long identified, and that’s the lack of rivals. When VCU, GMU and ODU left it definitely weakened the CAA, and certainly hurt the interest of JMU fans.


And Richmond in the mid 90s too.

Yes, agree.

The lack of rivalries are what led to the downgrade of the conference. The schools that left are no better off and the schools left behind are worse off.

UR was all set to come back from the A10 and bring GW with them. VCU told ODU they were leaving for the A10 so ODU accepted the CUSA offer and the UR/GW deal blew up.

All four of those schools belong together in the CAA. That was and would be a great league for fans.

I remember in the 90s when the Metro broke up which led to Vcu joining the Colonial there was some speculation around Gw and Lasalle possibly joining. I’m not sure the CAA has ever demonstrated that they can go on offense the way the A 10 has. Even when the CAA had momentum with the final fours and nbc sports national deal they didn’t demonstrate a desire to grow and being in new members until they were forced to.

A big part of VCU leaving was they wanted to grown their program to consistently compete post season. (VCU's only cash cow is basketball) For years: the schools at the top (I think VCU and ODU were the ring leaders) encouraged the lower half of the CAA to invest and grow their programs so the CAA could become one of the top mid-major conferences and consistently have more than one or two bids to the NCCT. That didn't happen so VCU and ODU moved on. I recall Georgia and Mason left the following year.
07-22-2021 01:27 PM
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Longhorn Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Lou Rowe
(07-22-2021 01:12 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  
(07-20-2021 05:57 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 05:30 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  
(07-14-2021 03:56 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(07-14-2021 02:16 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  To add a thought: Look at JMU football where the program as a whole is strong. When a coach leaves for bigger and better things, you simply hire a quality staff that is attracted to the job/program and kind of just "reload". In modern times (10 or 15 years) I don't recall JMU being considered a strong basketball program where we can simply reload.

Basketball in CAA and JMU basketball currently isn't a place that attracts quality and/or proven MBB coaches. We are at a place that attracts coaches that are looking to work their way to the big time. We need to gamble a bit. Coaches like Brady (in 8 seasons .547) can find a home but those coaches that are consistently knocking out 20+ wins (.700) are likely to move on fairly quickly.

I loved the gamble JMU took on Coach Rowe, Being easy to look back now: Coach Rowe was pretty much set up for probable failure. Same with Coach B. but he seems to have something that hopefully continues the healing.

Rowe was never the right hire. It was a terrible “gamble” if you want to think of it as a “gamble”…there’s no rear-view, 20-20 “looking back” to revise the majority opinion at the time. LR just wasn’t ready. His hire was a confluence of several missteps. The administration didn’t want to invest the money in a proven HC was principal among them. As a result the search was doomed to failure from the beginning. The administration did the same thing with the Keener hire, and to a lesser degree when they hired Dillard because he was a valued alum of MBB.

The current JMU HC hire was not a “gamble” with comparables to LR, so I don’t get where that thought is coming from. MB was a seasoned HC who had previously worked as an assistant with a number of excellent mentors, both facts and the kind of experience LR lacked. I’ll conclude that your suggestion that the CAA is not a MBB league that attracts quality and/or proven coaches is simply not factual. There have been a number of excellent hires in the league, as well as a number of so-so hires. But CAA MBB has a solid rep, and suffers no more or no less than any other so-called mid-major in attracting and retaining coaching talent.

Well we can agree to disagree, The CAA is a one bid conference and likely will be for quite a while. Chances for post season bonuses, not good. Ease of recruiting true basketball talent, not good. Top HC pay in the CAA, not good. TV deals; not good. My opinion; The CAA is a stepping stone conference for HC's and with the "new" transfer rules, applies to athletes that excel.

Being a one bid mid doesn’t make the CAA a bad MBB conference, it makes it exactly like most every other mid in existence. Judging a conference based on the pay for a HC is an odd perspective, however, as top CAA salaries in the $500k range are again no different than other mids. Your suggestion that the CAA is a “stepping stone” for HCs (which can be true) runs counter to your argument that the league is “not good”…i.e. how does an ambitious and talented HC move up (using the CAA as a “stepping stone”) if the CAA is so bad? As far as the new transfer rule goes only time will tell how it impacts not only the CAA, but all mids, and even some of the P5 teams. It’s a bit too early to use the new transfer rules to argue that alone will negatively impact the CAA.

The only big problem the CAA suffers as a mid is the one Dukester has long identified, and that’s the lack of rivals. When VCU, GMU and ODU left it definitely weakened the CAA, and certainly hurt the interest of JMU fans.

CAA isn't bad basketball. The CAA isn't a place to attract and keep the best coaches. A CAA coach heads to the NCAAT a couple of years and wins a couple of games, he's going to be poached. The top coaches in the A-10, also a mid major are pulling in over $1m. Even Mooney (Ticks) has a base of $750K and not consistently good and has like a 10 year contract. Anthony Grant (Dayton) and Rhoades (VCU) are both pulling in well over $1.5M.

I'm not totally sold on rivalries, they do attract more fans. At some point, I would love to see VCU vs. JMU every year. However I'm more interested in playing quality opponents to boost our chances of playing post season. Post season, playing on TV is how programs grow.

Did I say that the CAA is a mid conference that pays its HC’s the most? No. Did I say the CAA is the best mid? No. Yet at $500k salaries for HCs in the CAA are not exactly chicken feed, and again, using the metric of coaching salaries to determine the quality of a league isn’t a good one.

You did say, however, again, that the CAA doesn’t attract good head coaches, and that’s just factually wrong.

How did Anthony Grant make his way to VCU? Or Shaka Smart? Were they bad coaches that just got lucky? Or did the CAA attract a couple of young, talented coaches on their way up the coaching ladder?

Eventually both Grant and Smart got paid at VCU, but then Grant left for more money at Alabama, only to get canned. Smart left a $1 million contract at VCU for Texas money, and just this off-season left Texas before getting shown the door for less money at Marquette. Both still are making “big bucks” compared to the average working Joe, but does their failure at the level of P5 competition make them bad coaches? Or are they just mediocre coaching talent now that they’ve settled in lower-level conferences? Obviously, reliance on inflated coaching salaries is not a good barometer for gauging coaching talent, or the quality of a league.

VCU, ODU, GMU, UNCW…even JMU, have all had their moments of hiring excellent coaches, and then seeing them move on to higher callings, or in the case of Lefty, not having their contract renewed. That’s life, and to be expected. Somehow you’ve come to a conclusion that CAA basketball is something less than it is, because it’s not what you want it to be.

There are different levels of mids (duh) and the CAA is simply a solid East Coast basketball league that has its pluses and minuses. It’s populated by a range of talent, both in coaching and on its rosters. The CAA isn’t the A10, but not all A10 teams are necessarily hot stuff.

During the CAA’s history it’s had its moments. Those moments have seen programs like VCU elevate their profile and to move on to what VCU considers a better conference. Good for VCU, however, I still miss JMU playing the Rams on a regular basis, and the rivalry between all the VA schools.

The possibility that a current CAA team might replicate VCU and GMU’s NCAAT runs is not beyond consideration, but it’s almost impossible to predict when or where anything that extraordinary might be repeated.

With JMU’s new MBB HC and top line facilities JMU is positioning itself to become more competitive both in recruiting and on the court. Hopefully last year’s success was just a glimpse of what is in store for JMU MBB. If it is, and our current HC does for JMU what Shaka Smart did for VCU I would expect P5s to come calling, and I would be happy for our coach. I would
also expect the success of a revitalized JMU MBB program would attract strong applicants for the coaching vacancy. Isn’t that the way it’s supposed to work?

As for your notion of “not being sold on rivalries” I suppose that would be matter of personal choice, however, the energy present when VCU plays ODU should be all the proof you need to see that rivalries are the essence of college sports. Without them, something fundamental is absent and it diminishes the in-person game experience.
07-22-2021 02:21 PM
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Dukester Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Lou Rowe
Anyone know if they set the basketball dates for the big Tribe - Dukes games this year?

Yep there was Richmond - JMU in basketball which was as strong as I can recall in JMU sports.

JMU - ODU basketball was pretty cool when in same conference. Now it's not that great. Football would of been the all time rivarly.

VCU - JMU was decent even when I was at JMU in the 80's.

We were GMU's rival, before we felt one with them. Then Larranaga came, final 4, they were just a good program you wanted to beat.

Strangely enough we use to have a slight football rivalry with both UD and RU - but "I" don't feel it any more. We had a football rivalry with W&M for 2004.

Just not feeling it for the current CAA.
07-22-2021 02:31 PM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Lou Rowe
Richmond U isn’t our rival. We pity them because they are human waste.
07-22-2021 03:17 PM
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RamDawg Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Lou Rowe
(07-22-2021 02:21 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 01:12 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  
(07-20-2021 05:57 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 05:30 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  
(07-14-2021 03:56 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  Rowe was never the right hire. It was a terrible “gamble” if you want to think of it as a “gamble”…there’s no rear-view, 20-20 “looking back” to revise the majority opinion at the time. LR just wasn’t ready. His hire was a confluence of several missteps. The administration didn’t want to invest the money in a proven HC was principal among them. As a result the search was doomed to failure from the beginning. The administration did the same thing with the Keener hire, and to a lesser degree when they hired Dillard because he was a valued alum of MBB.

The current JMU HC hire was not a “gamble” with comparables to LR, so I don’t get where that thought is coming from. MB was a seasoned HC who had previously worked as an assistant with a number of excellent mentors, both facts and the kind of experience LR lacked. I’ll conclude that your suggestion that the CAA is not a MBB league that attracts quality and/or proven coaches is simply not factual. There have been a number of excellent hires in the league, as well as a number of so-so hires. But CAA MBB has a solid rep, and suffers no more or no less than any other so-called mid-major in attracting and retaining coaching talent.

Well we can agree to disagree, The CAA is a one bid conference and likely will be for quite a while. Chances for post season bonuses, not good. Ease of recruiting true basketball talent, not good. Top HC pay in the CAA, not good. TV deals; not good. My opinion; The CAA is a stepping stone conference for HC's and with the "new" transfer rules, applies to athletes that excel.

Being a one bid mid doesn’t make the CAA a bad MBB conference, it makes it exactly like most every other mid in existence. Judging a conference based on the pay for a HC is an odd perspective, however, as top CAA salaries in the $500k range are again no different than other mids. Your suggestion that the CAA is a “stepping stone” for HCs (which can be true) runs counter to your argument that the league is “not good”…i.e. how does an ambitious and talented HC move up (using the CAA as a “stepping stone”) if the CAA is so bad? As far as the new transfer rule goes only time will tell how it impacts not only the CAA, but all mids, and even some of the P5 teams. It’s a bit too early to use the new transfer rules to argue that alone will negatively impact the CAA.

The only big problem the CAA suffers as a mid is the one Dukester has long identified, and that’s the lack of rivals. When VCU, GMU and ODU left it definitely weakened the CAA, and certainly hurt the interest of JMU fans.

CAA isn't bad basketball. The CAA isn't a place to attract and keep the best coaches. A CAA coach heads to the NCAAT a couple of years and wins a couple of games, he's going to be poached. The top coaches in the A-10, also a mid major are pulling in over $1m. Even Mooney (Ticks) has a base of $750K and not consistently good and has like a 10 year contract. Anthony Grant (Dayton) and Rhoades (VCU) are both pulling in well over $1.5M.

I'm not totally sold on rivalries, they do attract more fans. At some point, I would love to see VCU vs. JMU every year. However I'm more interested in playing quality opponents to boost our chances of playing post season. Post season, playing on TV is how programs grow.

Did I say that the CAA is a mid conference that pays its HC’s the most? No. Did I say the CAA is the best mid? No. Yet at $500k salaries for HCs in the CAA are not exactly chicken feed, and again, using the metric of coaching salaries to determine the quality of a league isn’t a good one.

You did say, however, again, that the CAA doesn’t attract good head coaches, and that’s just factually wrong.

How did Anthony Grant make his way to VCU? Or Shaka Smart? Were they bad coaches that just got lucky? Or did the CAA attract a couple of young, talented coaches on their way up the coaching ladder?

Eventually both Grant and Smart got paid at VCU, but then Grant left for more money at Alabama, only to get canned. Smart left a $1 million contract at VCU for Texas money, and just this off-season left Texas before getting shown the door for less money at Marquette. Both still are making “big bucks” compared to the average working Joe, but does their failure at the level of P5 competition make them bad coaches? Or are they just mediocre coaching talent now that they’ve settled in lower-level conferences? Obviously, reliance on inflated coaching salaries is not a good barometer for gauging coaching talent, or the quality of a league.

VCU, ODU, GMU, UNCW…even JMU, have all had their moments of hiring excellent coaches, and then seeing them move on to higher callings, or in the case of Lefty, not having their contract renewed. That’s life, and to be expected. Somehow you’ve come to a conclusion that CAA basketball is something less than it is, because it’s not what you want it to be.

There are different levels of mids (duh) and the CAA is simply a solid East Coast basketball league that has its pluses and minuses. It’s populated by a range of talent, both in coaching and on its rosters. The CAA isn’t the A10, but not all A10 teams are necessarily hot stuff.

During the CAA’s history it’s had its moments. Those moments have seen programs like VCU elevate their profile and to move on to what VCU considers a better conference. Good for VCU, however, I still miss JMU playing the Rams on a regular basis, and the rivalry between all the VA schools.

The possibility that a current CAA team might replicate VCU and GMU’s NCAAT runs is not beyond consideration, but it’s almost impossible to predict when or where anything that extraordinary might be repeated.

With JMU’s new MBB HC and top line facilities JMU is positioning itself to become more competitive both in recruiting and on the court. Hopefully last year’s success was just a glimpse of what is in store for JMU MBB. If it is, and our current HC does for JMU what Shaka Smart did for VCU I would expect P5s to come calling, and I would be happy for our coach. I would
also expect the success of a revitalized JMU MBB program would attract strong applicants for the coaching vacancy. Isn’t that the way it’s supposed to work?

As for your notion of “not being sold on rivalries” I suppose that would be matter of personal choice, however, the energy present when VCU plays ODU should be all the proof you need to see that rivalries are the essence of college sports. Without them, something fundamental is absent and it diminishes the in-person game experience.

I think we're kind of saying the same thing but approaching it in slightly different ways.

The unknown/entry level DI, CAA coaches at the time like Anthony Grant and Shaka Smart don't stay at the CAA caliber schools once they build some success. They used the success in the caa as a way to better themselves, playing on the bigger stages. Those coaches also allowed their programs momentum after they moved on. I'm hoping Coach Byington is the beginning of great things regardless of how long he is with us.

Regarding "not being sold on rivalries" Personally I'll take playing higher RPI programs over having a couple bitter rivalry games each season if it means having a better chance dancing in spring. Success post season brings more fans long term, more money long term and more exposure (and money) for the university. Don't get me wrong, I love those high energy "hate" games but it's sort lived for 2 or 3 hours. Dancing lasts much longer.

Hopefully with some new excitement and success at JMU, I think we'll see some of those Virginia schools willing to schedule us, rekindling some of those rivalries.
07-27-2021 02:39 PM
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