Dane did an unworldly job with a known stud returning (thank you, NBA scouts), a tall & talented P5 transfer, a returning bench guard, two plug-n-play grad transfers, and a few unknowns. He has no rookie class to build on and a couple HS guards coming in. At the moment, I don't expect much but our players seem to love him, our AD adores him, and potential transfers may be intrigued. If we win 10 games next season, I won't grab my pitchfork. He's going to need time to build his own house.

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....and you never know when he will tire of the throne in this kingdom in Williamsburg.

Congrats to your coach. He almost had to be given this award. The same people who picked the Tribe 7th preseason would have to acknowledge a coach who then finished 2nd in the CAA. Add into that the potential for the coach to cave with the pressure to win with the removal of Shaver and the transfers out, and he performed in a tough environment.

Worry about next year, next year. I'm sure he knew what he had and what he'd be losing when he took the job.

(03-07-2020 09:03 PM)Zorch Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 10:18 AM)Marshall Wythe Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 08:49 AM)Zorch Wrote:  I think folks might be going a little overboard here.

Dane Fischer deserved to win CAA Coach of the Year because of the results on the court. However, I am reserving judgment on just how good of a coach he is until next year. You know, the year when he doesn’t inherit the POY, the Defensive POY, a second First Team Defensive player, and a 7 ft 3rd team All-CAA player.

Next year will show us how good of a coach he is.

Zorch, I'd love to hear which of my or the other comments were inaccurate or "overboard." I don't think anyone (certainly not me) seriously thought we'd have a record this good at the end of the season, even with Nate. If you predicted this success for Coach Fischer at the beginning of the season, please point me to the post and I will tip my hat.

A challenge? Okay. First off, though, notice that I said in the original post that he deserved the award (I bolded it this time to make it easier to find). Moreover, before the award was even announced, I was on record as saying that he deserved the award over Schrage or Mihalich (see post below, from 2/28/2020, 10:38, from the "Nate - CAA POW for 4th time" thread).

(02-28-2020 10:38 PM)Zorch Wrote:  It was disappointing that he tabbed Joe Mihalic for Coach of the Year, with Schrage of Elon being his second choice. Obviously, I think Fischer would be the best and obvious choice. He is a first-time coach like Schrage but his team finished considerably better than Schrage's did. Re Mihalic: Joe is an experienced coach whose team won the CAA regular season last year and was preseason tabbed to win it again this year -- so he did what he was expected to do. Meanwhile (as of this writing), Fischer's team (who was expected to finish, what, 10 or 11) is in second place with a chance for a first place tie. So Fischer greatly exceeded the expectations of all the prognosticators (and almost all W&M fans) and, to me, seems like a more deserving choice than Mihalic. (I just deleted a crack against Joe because I didn't want to violate my own dictum about not providing bulletin board material).

Okay, so Fischer deserved the COY. But how/why did he deserve it? Was it because he "coached them up" as ColonelEbirt said? Was it because he improved the "chemistry" of the team, as many have said? I'm sure he did indeed do those things -- but were those the reasons why W&M went 21-10? Or was it because of Nathan Knight? That is what I think - and Fischer was smart/competent enough to not screw it up. Below are two posts from the "2019-2020 MBB Season" thread, from 10/8/19 and 10/9/19 (more than a month before the season even started)(I have bolded the pertinent parts). First, kudos to LeadBolt who also predicted the Tribe would finish higher than projected. In the first post I make it clear what I thought of Nathan Knight. In the second post I commented that since the Tribe was projected so low that they would have to prove it on the court. Besides Knight, I also mentioned how Andy Van Vliet should have been mentioned among the top newcomers (which proved true since he was selected to the CAA Third Team):

(10-08-2019 11:05 AM)Zorch Wrote:  That writeup is BS. First off, I give ZERO respect to anyone who claims to know anything about COLONIAL league basketball. If they knew anything at all then they would at least know that the league calls itself the CAA. Secondly, they give a list of top five newcomers but it doesn't contain Van Vliet. They say that Nathan Knight is the best all around player in the league but are quick to project Grant Riller as player of the year.

Here's my projection: Nathan Knight wins POY in a landslide.

(10-09-2019 01:13 PM)Zorch Wrote:  

(10-08-2019 02:44 PM)LeadBolt Wrote:  I understand why they might project us at the bottom with all of the turnover and turmoil of unexpected regime change. I really think that this team will surpass expectations that outsiders will have handily.

(10-09-2019 07:05 AM)wmmii Wrote:  Our success will be based first on key players remaining healthy and then on the team embracing Dane’s new system and 5 core values. Expectations of ourselves is vastly more important than the perception of others.

I agree with both of these sentiments. I have included the link to the CAA article about the Media Day projections. What surprised me is how high JMU was projected. I assume that it is because they have some returning studs. But they also have Louis Rowe returning and I can't see giving them any love until they prove it and earn it. I'm also surprised at Hofstra being first -- has anyone told them that Wright-Foreman has graduated? Buie is a good defender but can he carry the team offensively? Pemberton has never impressed me as being that good -- certainly not good enough to carry a team to the top ranking. I guess CofC and NE would deserve high rankings and I think that it looks like Delaware should be even better this year.

W&M will have to prove it on the court. Barring injuries, I think the Tribe will finish much higher than projected.

https://caasports.com/news/2019/10/7/hof...-year.aspx

(03-07-2020 10:18 AM)Marshall Wythe Wrote:  ....He may be a one year wonder. But, with the challenges facing him next year, I don't think we can seriously expect the same result.

That was exactly my point. If he falls to earth next year then does that mean that this year's success was because of Knight (yes!). Is he suddenly any less of a coach or an inspiration next year? No, of course not -- but next year he won't have Nathan Knight (and several other important pieces). Now, on the other hand, if he leads the team to 20 wins next year then I will absolutely be saying he is a great coach. So that is all that was said and that is all that was meant.

Lastly, I want to comment on this post:

(03-07-2020 11:03 AM)3xTribe Wrote:  ... It's unknowable, of course, but I wonder whether Nate is defensive POY under the previous regime.

You are right, it is unknowable. But such a guess would not have been much of a reach --- considering that Nate made the CAA All-Defensive team last year, too!

1 - Thanks for agreeing that, like the rest of us, you did not predict this level of success for Coach Fischer at the beginning of the season.

2 - I disagree that, if next year's results are worse, then this year's results are "because of Nate." Sure, Nate played probably the most important role in this year's results. But to act like Coach Fischer's coaching job also didn't play a significant role is ridiculous.

3 - You failed to point out any comments that were over the top.

(03-08-2020 08:25 AM)Marshall Wythe Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 09:03 PM)Zorch Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 10:18 AM)Marshall Wythe Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 08:49 AM)Zorch Wrote:  I think folks might be going a little overboard here.

Dane Fischer deserved to win CAA Coach of the Year because of the results on the court. However, I am reserving judgment on just how good of a coach he is until next year. You know, the year when he doesn’t inherit the POY, the Defensive POY, a second First Team Defensive player, and a 7 ft 3rd team All-CAA player.

Next year will show us how good of a coach he is.

Zorch, I'd love to hear which of my or the other comments were inaccurate or "overboard." I don't think anyone (certainly not me) seriously thought we'd have a record this good at the end of the season, even with Nate. If you predicted this success for Coach Fischer at the beginning of the season, please point me to the post and I will tip my hat.

A challenge? Okay. First off, though, notice that I said in the original post that he deserved the award (I bolded it this time to make it easier to find). Moreover, before the award was even announced, I was on record as saying that he deserved the award over Schrage or Mihalich (see post below, from 2/28/2020, 10:38, from the "Nate - CAA POW for 4th time" thread).

(02-28-2020 10:38 PM)Zorch Wrote:  It was disappointing that he tabbed Joe Mihalic for Coach of the Year, with Schrage of Elon being his second choice. Obviously, I think Fischer would be the best and obvious choice. He is a first-time coach like Schrage but his team finished considerably better than Schrage's did. Re Mihalic: Joe is an experienced coach whose team won the CAA regular season last year and was preseason tabbed to win it again this year -- so he did what he was expected to do. Meanwhile (as of this writing), Fischer's team (who was expected to finish, what, 10 or 11) is in second place with a chance for a first place tie. So Fischer greatly exceeded the expectations of all the prognosticators (and almost all W&M fans) and, to me, seems like a more deserving choice than Mihalic. (I just deleted a crack against Joe because I didn't want to violate my own dictum about not providing bulletin board material).

Okay, so Fischer deserved the COY. But how/why did he deserve it? Was it because he "coached them up" as ColonelEbirt said? Was it because he improved the "chemistry" of the team, as many have said? I'm sure he did indeed do those things -- but were those the reasons why W&M went 21-10? Or was it because of Nathan Knight? That is what I think - and Fischer was smart/competent enough to not screw it up. Below are two posts from the "2019-2020 MBB Season" thread, from 10/8/19 and 10/9/19 (more than a month before the season even started)(I have bolded the pertinent parts). First, kudos to LeadBolt who also predicted the Tribe would finish higher than projected. In the first post I make it clear what I thought of Nathan Knight. In the second post I commented that since the Tribe was projected so low that they would have to prove it on the court. Besides Knight, I also mentioned how Andy Van Vliet should have been mentioned among the top newcomers (which proved true since he was selected to the CAA Third Team):

(10-08-2019 11:05 AM)Zorch Wrote:  That writeup is BS. First off, I give ZERO respect to anyone who claims to know anything about COLONIAL league basketball. If they knew anything at all then they would at least know that the league calls itself the CAA. Secondly, they give a list of top five newcomers but it doesn't contain Van Vliet. They say that Nathan Knight is the best all around player in the league but are quick to project Grant Riller as player of the year.

Here's my projection: Nathan Knight wins POY in a landslide.

(10-09-2019 01:13 PM)Zorch Wrote:  

(10-08-2019 02:44 PM)LeadBolt Wrote:  I understand why they might project us at the bottom with all of the turnover and turmoil of unexpected regime change. I really think that this team will surpass expectations that outsiders will have handily.

(10-09-2019 07:05 AM)wmmii Wrote:  Our success will be based first on key players remaining healthy and then on the team embracing Dane’s new system and 5 core values. Expectations of ourselves is vastly more important than the perception of others.

I agree with both of these sentiments. I have included the link to the CAA article about the Media Day projections. What surprised me is how high JMU was projected. I assume that it is because they have some returning studs. But they also have Louis Rowe returning and I can't see giving them any love until they prove it and earn it. I'm also surprised at Hofstra being first -- has anyone told them that Wright-Foreman has graduated? Buie is a good defender but can he carry the team offensively? Pemberton has never impressed me as being that good -- certainly not good enough to carry a team to the top ranking. I guess CofC and NE would deserve high rankings and I think that it looks like Delaware should be even better this year.

W&M will have to prove it on the court. Barring injuries, I think the Tribe will finish much higher than projected.

https://caasports.com/news/2019/10/7/hof...-year.aspx

(03-07-2020 10:18 AM)Marshall Wythe Wrote:  ....He may be a one year wonder. But, with the challenges facing him next year, I don't think we can seriously expect the same result.

That was exactly my point. If he falls to earth next year then does that mean that this year's success was because of Knight (yes!). Is he suddenly any less of a coach or an inspiration next year? No, of course not -- but next year he won't have Nathan Knight (and several other important pieces). Now, on the other hand, if he leads the team to 20 wins next year then I will absolutely be saying he is a great coach. So that is all that was said and that is all that was meant.

Lastly, I want to comment on this post:

(03-07-2020 11:03 AM)3xTribe Wrote:  ... It's unknowable, of course, but I wonder whether Nate is defensive POY under the previous regime.

You are right, it is unknowable. But such a guess would not have been much of a reach --- considering that Nate made the CAA All-Defensive team last year, too!

1 - Thanks for agreeing that, like the rest of us, you did not predict this level of success for Coach Fischer at the beginning of the season.

2 - I disagree that, if next year's results are worse, then this year's results are "because of Nate." Sure, Nate played probably the most important role in this year's results. But to act like Coach Fischer's coaching job also didn't play a significant role is ridiculous.

3 - You failed to point out any comments that were over the top.

Seriously?

1. No, I didn't use the words "first place" or "second place" but I did say "Barring injuries, I think the Tribe will finish much higher than projected.". They did finish "much higher" than projected - so I think that qualifies as "If you predicted this success for Coach Fischer at the beginning of the season, please point me to the post and I will tip my hat".

3. Since I used the word "folks" in my original post, it was clear that I was not referring to you or any poster specifically but rather to how many posters were all giving all the credit to Fischer. I made it clear that other people (mainly Nate) were involved too. You took my post to mean you just because your post was the one immediately above it. Anyway, it was the sheer "piling on" of it's-all-Fischer that I thought was going "overboard". My bad on that account -- I should have just let folks feel good about congratulating the Tribe.

On the thread where we’re congratulating Nate for winning POY, no one is complaining that every accolade isn’t accompanied by comments about how good his supporting cast is and how good his coach is - both of which are important ingredients to him winning POY. He would be the first to say that! So it seems ridiculous that we can’t just celebrate Fischer’s great accomplishments this year without the asterisks that some of you want to add. Next year is next year. Let’s just enjoy the regular season we had and root hard for our guys these next 3 days.

No one thought we’d be in this position at this point. Congratulations to everyone (individually, and collectively) who got us here!


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The problem is the inability or unwillingness to think critically. The blind loyalty leads to complacency. Bask in the sunshine without understanding why the sunshine is there and you'll be lost when night comes. Or in our case, when the Knight leaves.

(03-08-2020 10:44 AM)ColonelEbirt Wrote:  On the thread where we’re congratulating Nate for winning POY, no one is complaining that every accolade isn’t accompanied by comments about how good his supporting cast is and how good his coach is - both of which are important ingredients to him winning POY. He would be the first to say that! So it seems ridiculous that we can’t just celebrate Fischer’s great accomplishments this year without the asterisks that some of you want to add. Next year is next year. Let’s just enjoy the regular season we had and root hard for our guys these next 3 days.

No one thought we’d be in this position at this point. Congratulations to everyone (individually, and collectively) who got us here!


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(03-08-2020 03:09 PM)TribeGoldenAgeofBasketball Wrote:  The problem is the inability or unwillingness to think critically. The blind loyalty leads to complacency. Bask in the sunshine without understanding why the sunshine is there and you'll be lost when night comes. Or in our case, when the Knight leaves.

(03-08-2020 10:44 AM)ColonelEbirt Wrote:  On the thread where we’re congratulating Nate for winning POY, no one is complaining that every accolade isn’t accompanied by comments about how good his supporting cast is and how good his coach is - both of which are important ingredients to him winning POY. He would be the first to say that! So it seems ridiculous that we can’t just celebrate Fischer’s great accomplishments this year without the asterisks that some of you want to add. Next year is next year. Let’s just enjoy the regular season we had and root hard for our guys these next 3 days.

No one thought we’d be in this position at this point. Congratulations to everyone (individually, and collectively) who got us here!


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Since critical analytical thinking appears to be your strong suit, I’d love to see your analysis of the posts on this thread that show both an inability and unwillingness of the others on here to think critically. That’s a strong claim. There are many, I think myself included, who have demonstrated critical thinking over a lengthy history of posts.

Any real fan should be able to say congrats to our coach and to say he had a terrific year without being called out.

Based on the other thread you just started, you seem to have some sort of agenda.

Let’s go Tribe. Beat Elon. One game at a time.


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(03-08-2020 03:32 PM)ColonelEbirt Wrote:  

(03-08-2020 03:09 PM)TribeGoldenAgeofBasketball Wrote:  The problem is the inability or unwillingness to think critically. The blind loyalty leads to complacency. Bask in the sunshine without understanding why the sunshine is there and you'll be lost when night comes. Or in our case, when the Knight leaves.

(03-08-2020 10:44 AM)ColonelEbirt Wrote:  On the thread where we’re congratulating Nate for winning POY, no one is complaining that every accolade isn’t accompanied by comments about how good his supporting cast is and how good his coach is - both of which are important ingredients to him winning POY. He would be the first to say that! So it seems ridiculous that we can’t just celebrate Fischer’s great accomplishments this year without the asterisks that some of you want to add. Next year is next year. Let’s just enjoy the regular season we had and root hard for our guys these next 3 days.

No one thought we’d be in this position at this point. Congratulations to everyone (individually, and collectively) who got us here!


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Since critical analytical thinking appears to be your strong suit, I’d love to see your analysis of the posts on this thread that show both an inability and unwillingness of the others on here to think critically. That’s a strong claim. There are many, I think myself included, who have demonstrated critical thinking over a lengthy history of posts.

Any real fan should be able to say congrats to our coach and to say he had a terrific year without being called out.

Based on the other thread you just started, you seem to have some sort of agenda.

Let’s go Tribe. Beat Elon. One game at a time.


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Wouldn't say agenda. Do I think the problems is the ad? Yes. Wanted to mention it prior to the game so it wouldn't come across as results driven. Our ad has set the basketball program back, simply put. She had no plan. Consolidated power with a few donors and players to create the impression that there was consensus and in a week destroyed what it took a decade to build. The hope is now that throwing dollars into facilities + exposure from a tourney run would offset what we lost. The tourney run failed and now we're betting on facilities to be the answer. The biggest issue in leadership is thinking you know more than anyone else. That goes right with listening to the few instead of the many. Not sure how I wouldnt be frustrated. A tourney birth in my mind would have just delayed the inevitable but a lack of a tourney birth and a first round exit(to an ex coach) just begs the question again why we our entrusting this ad with the keys to the ship. People who work in athletics dont enjoy it, shes created a culture where people look over their back, and what's there to show for it? She can do some things great but personnel decisions are not one of those things. If she could recognize that and defer we wouldnt be in this position. The blind support just hurts everyone.

Yes, we had a great year and exceeded expectations after many off-season losses, but let’s be honest with ourselves.

-Non Conference SOS was ranked 242
-CAA had one of it’s worst years in recent memory


Good programs ran by the right people do not lose games in these situations. This loss is Huge karma.

As Nate said in his postgame interview, it is just a game and Woods had a career game. Elon took shots that we wanted them to take and made them. This is more than winning one game but building young men. Listen to Nathan postgame interview last night.

I walk away sadden by our loss but confident in the future of Tribe MBB. One game does not change we have the COY and two signed freshmen who Dane says will get plenty of playing time.


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(03-09-2020 07:38 AM)wmmii Wrote:  As Nate said in his postgame interview, it is just a game and Woods had a career game. Elon took shots that we wanted them to take and made them. This is more than winning one game but building young men. Listen to Nathan postgame interview last night.

I walk away sadden by our loss but confident in the future of Tribe MBB. One game does not change we have the COY and two signed freshmen who Dane says will get plenty of playing time.


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Chase audige and cam brown would have been playing here and those 2 guys alone would have been able to contend in the caa for 3 years. Can look to the future all we want but we shouldn't be forgetting the past. The fact of the matter is we now basically have a measuring stick to see where we would have been and that is elon. They run the same system we did in years past and have the same recruiting pipeline. Only difference is since they've joined the caa they've been atrocious and we've been consistent contenders. One change and the tide completely shifts. Want to see where this program would have gone with resources to the old staff? All we need to do is watch Elon succeed. Frustration over that excitement is now hoping guys develop instead of knowing we have guys who are developed.

(03-09-2020 02:10 PM)TribeGoldenAgeofBasketball Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 07:38 AM)wmmii Wrote:  As Nate said in his postgame interview, it is just a game and Woods had a career game. Elon took shots that we wanted them to take and made them. This is more than winning one game but building young men. Listen to Nathan postgame interview last night.

I walk away sadden by our loss but confident in the future of Tribe MBB. One game does not change we have the COY and two signed freshmen who Dane says will get plenty of playing time.


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Chase audige and cam brown would have been playing here and those 2 guys alone would have been able to contend in the caa for 3 years. Can look to the future all we want but we shouldn't be forgetting the past. The fact of the matter is we now basically have a measuring stick to see where we would have been and that is elon. They run the same system we did in years past and have the same recruiting pipeline. Only difference is since they've joined the caa they've been atrocious and we've been consistent contenders. One change and the tide completely shifts. Want to see where this program would have gone with resources to the old staff? All we need to do is watch Elon succeed. Frustration over that excitement is now hoping guys develop instead of knowing we have guys who are developed.

They opted to jump ship. Why should anyone care. I don’t think they will be playing post season either.

We have other good recruits coming in.

(03-09-2020 02:10 PM)TribeGoldenAgeofBasketball Wrote:  Chase audige and cam brown ... alone would have been able to contend in the caa for 3 years.

Counterpoint: no they wouldn't.

Congratulations to Coach Holmes (@_CoachHolmes) for being named as one of the top-5 assistant coaches in the CAA by @Stadium

#HeatRises https://t.co/VY2cAJQVeY

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Nice podcast interview with Dane Fischer.
https://twitter.com/mattbare23/status/12...2825814017

Not sure where to put this but here’s an interview with Coach Boatner and some other assistants at other programs:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=yout...Yfp8nsukZo