(03-03-2020 02:09 PM)Statefan Wrote:  ...Yes we hate Swofford, but ranting about him personally when he had an inferior package to sell is foolish.

That may be true, but we don't know where he lives, so ranting about him is all we can do... not like we can picket his front yard or anything (can we?)

(03-03-2020 02:23 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-03-2020 02:09 PM)Statefan Wrote:  ...Yes we hate Swofford, but ranting about him personally when he had an inferior package to sell is foolish.

That may be true, but we don't know where he lives, so ranting about him is all we can do... not like we can picket his front yard or anything (can we?)

I'm not telling you where the ass hole lives.

He is a reflection of the various schools internal issues and problems.

For instance, Carolina cheats because they have always cheated in sports. It's in their blood and it's a reflection of their Southern Tidewater Ego. NC State is going to wrap itself up in a flag of useless honor and ***** about Carolina's cheating instead of matching them like a bunch of diasporad Highland Scots.

(03-03-2020 02:20 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Digging deeper,

In 2010 the SEC had two schools playing in a Pro infiltrated market - Georgia and Vandy. LSU and Florida had next market over contact with the Pros.
In 2010 the B10 had Northwestern and Minnesotta playing in a Pro infiltrated market. Michigan had next door market contact.
In 2010 the ACC had MD, BC, Miami, GT playing in Pro infiltrated markets. Duke, NC State, and UNC are in a market with the Carolina Hurricanes.

There is not equal value in the ACC as there is in the SEC or B10. It's not close for a number of reasons.

You're reaching.

The Columbus Blue Jackets? Does Bloomington being one hour out of Indianapolis really make it not a pro market? Does Ann Arbor being one hour out of Detroit really make it not a pro market? And so on.

The ACC came in with a weaker hand than usual and then proceeded to play it as crappily as possible. Swofford is still the biggest obstacle to success, but a close second is bad ADs at major programs who either don't understand or aren't willing to deal with the football impact. Kevin White at Duke is a perfect example. He may be just want you want to coddle Coach K ... but he's been nearly asleep on the wheel on Duke baseball and actively harmful on Duke football. I would lump NC State, Virginia, Pitt, and possibly Syracuse in the "needs a change at AD" camp.

(03-03-2020 02:28 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(03-03-2020 02:20 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Digging deeper,

In 2010 the SEC had two schools playing in a Pro infiltrated market - Georgia and Vandy. LSU and Florida had next market over contact with the Pros.
In 2010 the B10 had Northwestern and Minnesotta playing in a Pro infiltrated market. Michigan had next door market contact.
In 2010 the ACC had MD, BC, Miami, GT playing in Pro infiltrated markets. Duke, NC State, and UNC are in a market with the Carolina Hurricanes.

There is not equal value in the ACC as there is in the SEC or B10. It's not close for a number of reasons.

You're reaching.

The Columbus Blue Jackets? Does Bloomington being one hour out of Indianapolis really make it not a pro market? Does Ann Arbor being one hour out of Detroit really make it not a pro market? And so on.

The ACC came in with a weaker hand than usual and then proceeded to play it as crappily as possible. Swofford is still the biggest obstacle to success, but a close second is bad ADs at major programs who either don't understand or aren't willing to deal with the football impact. Kevin White at Duke is a perfect example. He may be just want you want to coddle Coach K ... but he's been nearly asleep on the wheel on Duke baseball and actively harmful on Duke football. I would lump NC State, Virginia, Pitt, and possibly Syracuse in the "needs a change at AD" camp.

You are reaching with the Blue Jackets in Ohio State;s hometown. I'm also sorry to see that you don't like Boo Corrigen, NC State's new AD who has been on the job just 9 months. As to Kevin White, he doesn't decide jack **** about Duke football. That's a Presidential decision and White just carries it out. If Duke wanted a NC football squad they could have one in 3-4 years. They have the money for anything they want, but they don't want what comes with it.

AD's are a reflection of their schools meaning they are the mouthpieces of the Presidents/Chancellors and the various BOT/BOG/BOV. What a lot of fans here want is NOT WANTED by the boards in Charlottesville, Durham, Winston, Raleigh, Boston, etc.

(03-03-2020 02:20 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Digging deeper,

In 2010 the SEC had two schools playing in a Pro infiltrated market - Georgia and Vandy. LSU and Florida had next market over contact with the Pros.
In 2010 the B10 had Northwestern and Minnesotta playing in a Pro infiltrated market. Michigan had next door market contact.
In 2010 the ACC had MD, BC, Miami, GT playing in Pro infiltrated markets. Duke, NC State, and UNC are in a market with the Carolina Hurricanes.

There is not equal value in the ACC as there is in the SEC or B10. It's not close for a number of reasons.

The pro sports market is not as much of a deal as the fact most of the schools in the B10 have a huge number of students, alumni and t-shirt fan bases (Northwestern being the exception). Penn State has 675,000 alums, Indiana has 650,000 alums, Michigan has 550,000 alums, Michigan State has 550,000 alums, Ohio State has 500,000 alums, Wisconsin has 400,000 alums-- heck even Purdue has 480,000 alums. By comparison most of the ACC has 200-250K alums- Wake has ~70K. That's just a lot more eyeballs that will be their very nature be on those B10 schools.

It also doesn't help that the ACC has 4 teams in a state with about the same population of Ohio. There's just fewer eyeball to draw from to justify a similar contract size to the B10 or SEC.

(03-03-2020 02:20 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Digging deeper,

In 2010 the SEC had two schools playing in a Pro infiltrated market - Georgia and Vandy. LSU and Florida had next market over contact with the Pros.
In 2010 the B10 had Northwestern and Minnesotta playing in a Pro infiltrated market. Michigan had next door market contact.
In 2010 the ACC had MD, BC, Miami, GT playing in Pro infiltrated markets. Duke, NC State, and UNC are in a market with the Carolina Hurricanes.

There is not equal value in the ACC as there is in the SEC or B10. It's not close for a number of reasons.

This intentionally avoids the reality. The ACC has the 3rd highest TV ratings (ALL THAT MATTERS). It has the 5th highest payout....and is FAR FAR behind the top 3.

Plus this horrible contract is locked in for decades.

It was a fail, a MASSIVE fail. Period.

(03-03-2020 03:16 PM)nole Wrote:  

(03-03-2020 02:20 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Digging deeper,

In 2010 the SEC had two schools playing in a Pro infiltrated market - Georgia and Vandy. LSU and Florida had next market over contact with the Pros.
In 2010 the B10 had Northwestern and Minnesotta playing in a Pro infiltrated market. Michigan had next door market contact.
In 2010 the ACC had MD, BC, Miami, GT playing in Pro infiltrated markets. Duke, NC State, and UNC are in a market with the Carolina Hurricanes.

There is not equal value in the ACC as there is in the SEC or B10. It's not close for a number of reasons.

This intentionally avoids the reality. The ACC has the 3rd highest TV ratings (ALL THAT MATTERS). It has the 5th highest payout....and is FAR FAR behind the top 3.

Plus this horrible contract is locked in for decades.

It was a fail, a MASSIVE fail. Period.

Where is your link to this ratings data. I would like to review it.

(03-03-2020 02:23 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-03-2020 02:09 PM)Statefan Wrote:  ...Yes we hate Swofford, but ranting about him personally when he had an inferior package to sell is foolish.

That may be true, but we don't know where he lives, so ranting about him is all we can do... not like we can picket his front yard or anything (can we?)

He lives in Greensboro.

(03-03-2020 03:43 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(03-03-2020 03:16 PM)nole Wrote:  

(03-03-2020 02:20 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Digging deeper,

In 2010 the SEC had two schools playing in a Pro infiltrated market - Georgia and Vandy. LSU and Florida had next market over contact with the Pros.
In 2010 the B10 had Northwestern and Minnesotta playing in a Pro infiltrated market. Michigan had next door market contact.
In 2010 the ACC had MD, BC, Miami, GT playing in Pro infiltrated markets. Duke, NC State, and UNC are in a market with the Carolina Hurricanes.

There is not equal value in the ACC as there is in the SEC or B10. It's not close for a number of reasons.

This intentionally avoids the reality. The ACC has the 3rd highest TV ratings (ALL THAT MATTERS). It has the 5th highest payout....and is FAR FAR behind the top 3.

Plus this horrible contract is locked in for decades.

It was a fail, a MASSIVE fail. Period.

Where is your link to this ratings data. I would like to review it.

He is correct about the TV ratings. Someone has posted the ratings here every year for I dont know how long, and the ACC always comes out 3rd. Regarding tv payouts he may be off. The ACC is way behind the SEC and BIG. But should surpass the Pac 12 when the numbers come out and possibly be neck and neck with the Big 12. But Nole's point is still valid. If we have the 3rd best tv ratings we should have the 3rd best tv payout at the very least.

I agree with the above but would state it more bluntly: If the ACC can't achieve 3rd best in payout with 3rd best TV ratings and AN ENORMOUS TV-set-in-footprint advantage ... then the conference will fall apart. The entire reason it became the from-Cuba-to-Canada behemoth it is was for TV markets and a huge TV set advantage. If those have no material advantages then WTF are we doing?

3rd best how?

3rd best including OOC games with SEC opponents?

That's not a valid metric without real numbers.

But even if we are third, the other factors that were in play were in play.

I guess the entire conversation is pointless. People would rather feel than logically reason.

They want to ignore the anomaly that is Texas and how it distorted the B12's contract. They want to ignore that the Pac 12 has no direct overlapping college level competition for eyeballs in their media markets.

It would one thing to compare a Red Delicious, with a Granny Smith, with a Honeycrisp. All three are apples but of course the Honeycrisp has more value. What's happening here is that a comparison is being made between varieties of pears, plums, and apples.

(03-03-2020 06:09 PM)Statefan Wrote:  3rd best how?

3rd best including OOC games with SEC opponents?

That's not a valid metric without real numbers.

But even if we are third, the other factors that were in play were in play.

I guess the entire conversation is pointless. People would rather feel than logically reason.

They want to ignore the anomaly that is Texas and how it distorted the B12's contract. They want to ignore that the Pac 12 has no direct overlapping college level competition for eyeballs in their media markets.

It would one thing to compare a Red Delicious, with a Granny Smith, with a Honeycrisp. All three are apples but of course the Honeycrisp has more value. What's happening here is that a comparison is being made between varieties of pears, plums, and apples.

No, no, no... here we compare apples and orangutans!

(03-03-2020 04:31 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-03-2020 02:23 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-03-2020 02:09 PM)Statefan Wrote:  ...Yes we hate Swofford, but ranting about him personally when he had an inferior package to sell is foolish.

That may be true, but we don't know where he lives, so ranting about him is all we can do... not like we can picket his front yard or anything (can we?)

He lives in Greensboro.

Next you're going to tell me he owns the parking deck next to the Greensboro Coliseum?

(03-03-2020 06:39 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-03-2020 04:31 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-03-2020 02:23 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-03-2020 02:09 PM)Statefan Wrote:  ...Yes we hate Swofford, but ranting about him personally when he had an inferior package to sell is foolish.

That may be true, but we don't know where he lives, so ranting about him is all we can do... not like we can picket his front yard or anything (can we?)

He lives in Greensboro.

Next you're going to tell me he owns the parking deck next to the Greensboro Coliseum?

No but X-Lance is in halfsies with Stamey on that

(03-03-2020 06:41 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(03-03-2020 06:39 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-03-2020 04:31 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-03-2020 02:23 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-03-2020 02:09 PM)Statefan Wrote:  ...Yes we hate Swofford, but ranting about him personally when he had an inferior package to sell is foolish.

That may be true, but we don't know where he lives, so ranting about him is all we can do... not like we can picket his front yard or anything (can we?)

He lives in Greensboro.

Next you're going to tell me he owns the parking deck next to the Greensboro Coliseum?

No but X-Lance is in halfsies with Stamey on that

Not quite......
My office building is on Coliseum Blvd., directly across the street from the arena. I don't have a deck, but I do have a surface lot.

(03-03-2020 12:56 PM)nole Wrote:  SWOFFORD is to blame.

1) When you are at a weak point, you don't lock in a crappy deal for 3 decades. Business 101. He failed.

2) He didn't shop the contract. Basically signaled to ESPN there is NO competition. They had no incentive to make it good for the ACC.

3) He prioritized his son's employment over the ACC revenue.

4) FSU, Clemson, and Miami had decent TV ratings during those times. Even when 'down.' This is a ridiculous point.

5) If you are a 14 team conference....how do you point to 3 teams and blame them? Bizarre.

6) Swofford gave away tier 3 rights, conference championship and other games...unlike SEC, B1G. What a STUPID move.



Swofford was a train wreck and the ACC will eventually fall apart because he was an arrogant, failed leader that the ACC was to stupid to remove and to realize revenue matters most.

The old BE shopped our contract and look what it got us.

How soon you forget.

The ACC or B12 was the next in line to get devoured and Swafford did what he felt he had to do. He built up a fence around the conference, crappy as it may be, because he had to do it.

Trust me, if the ACC had fallen apart too you'd be complaining about more than the current TV contract right now. Oh how we wish the BE had taken that less than stellar offer back then.

PS: Thanks Pitt !

(03-03-2020 02:32 PM)Statefan Wrote:  You are reaching with the Blue Jackets in Ohio State;s hometown. I'm also sorry to see that you don't like Boo Corrigen, NC State's new AD who has been on the job just 9 months. As to Kevin White, he doesn't decide jack **** about Duke football. That's a Presidential decision and White just carries it out. If Duke wanted a NC football squad they could have one in 3-4 years. They have the money for anything they want, but they don't want what comes with it.

AD's are a reflection of their schools meaning they are the mouthpieces of the Presidents/Chancellors and the various BOT/BOG/BOV. What a lot of fans here want is NOT WANTED by the boards in Charlottesville, Durham, Winston, Raleigh, Boston, etc.

No they couldn't.

(03-05-2020 10:23 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(03-03-2020 02:32 PM)Statefan Wrote:  You are reaching with the Blue Jackets in Ohio State;s hometown. I'm also sorry to see that you don't like Boo Corrigen, NC State's new AD who has been on the job just 9 months. As to Kevin White, he doesn't decide jack **** about Duke football. That's a Presidential decision and White just carries it out. If Duke wanted a NC football squad they could have one in 3-4 years. They have the money for anything they want, but they don't want what comes with it.

AD's are a reflection of their schools meaning they are the mouthpieces of the Presidents/Chancellors and the various BOT/BOG/BOV. What a lot of fans here want is NOT WANTED by the boards in Charlottesville, Durham, Winston, Raleigh, Boston, etc.

No they couldn't.

This is probably much more accurate. Duke would need to invest around $750,000,000 in facilities and staff just to get competitive.

(03-06-2020 08:43 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(03-05-2020 10:23 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(03-03-2020 02:32 PM)Statefan Wrote:  You are reaching with the Blue Jackets in Ohio State;s hometown. I'm also sorry to see that you don't like Boo Corrigen, NC State's new AD who has been on the job just 9 months. As to Kevin White, he doesn't decide jack **** about Duke football. That's a Presidential decision and White just carries it out. If Duke wanted a NC football squad they could have one in 3-4 years. They have the money for anything they want, but they don't want what comes with it.

AD's are a reflection of their schools meaning they are the mouthpieces of the Presidents/Chancellors and the various BOT/BOG/BOV. What a lot of fans here want is NOT WANTED by the boards in Charlottesville, Durham, Winston, Raleigh, Boston, etc.

No they couldn't.

This is probably much more accurate. Duke would need to invest around $750,000,000 in facilities and staff just to get competitive.

WTF are you talking about?

(03-06-2020 09:02 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  WTF are you talking about?

First you need an entirely new stadium. I know you just renovated Wallace Wade. And that was long overdue ... it was the last P5 with a damn track around the football field. But it's nowhere near the amenity level of a serious FB program. Part of being able to compete at a high level is being able to cash in when you play at a high level. And that means a FB stadium with lots of luxury and box seating. And a stadium that holds double what it does now. And a stadium that has at least 40-50k in it instead of 10-15k. That's going to require an enormous marketing program with some dedicated employees. So just the stadium is $500m. You're probably talking another few million just for the marketing regime and the employees needed to run it to then fill it.

You're going to need a new staff next. And you're going to need a staff that brings a name brand reputation that will blunt the sullied image Duke FB has created for itself. Soup to nuts plus assistants and coordinators a lights out staff is about another $10m.

The new staff is going to then want an indoor practice facility and football operations center. The two combined are about another $150m.

Next you'll want new locker rooms and weight room facilities. And hey, maybe this time the visitor locker room at Wallace Wade Outdoor can be in the same zipcode. Another $50m.

Misc expenses, marketing, sports nutrition, apartments, stipend, recruiting support staffs, etc ... I think you'll easily find the remaining $40m finds a quick home.

If Duke wants football to be something other than a bowl trip to Shreveport ... that's the kinda expense ledger they'd be looking at.