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BYU drops language from it's Honor Code banning homosexuality
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #41
RE: BYU drops language from it's Honor Code banning homosexuality
(02-23-2020 07:33 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  It's 100% Big 12 appeasement.

Yup. lol....They are tired of only being invited to join the AAC and MW.
02-25-2020 11:26 AM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #42
RE: BYU drops language from it's Honor Code banning homosexuality
This change to BYU's honor code has nothing to do with athletics. It coincides with a brand new General Handbook for the entire Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its worldwide membership and leadership.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org...k-2020.pdf
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org...l-handbook

As much as the new handbook directly affects the Church's leadership and membership in Utah...and the students and leadership at BYU...the new handbook will be translated into more than 50 languages and heavily used in Africa, South America, Asia, and Europe, as well as throughout North America.

Here's a link to the new General Handbook:
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stud...w?lang=eng

My opinion - the honor code revisions help to encourage and focus on reaching out with love, kindness, respect and inclusiveness to everyone and should promote better understanding and communication in our communities. Great revisions! But, I don't think BYU's P5 chances increase with the honor code revisions. The Church will not change the Law of Chastity or alter temple ordinances to permit same-sex couples to be married in the temple. As mentioned, that is a non-starter with many university presidents and boards of trustees.


FWIW, I believe the WCC is a great home for BYU. While BYU's student-body and resources dwarf most of its conference mates, the institutions and student bodies share huge common ground. I attended BYU undergrad and a WCC grad school, so I have direct experience here.

And, independent football is a fine alternative to the football conference options actually available to BYU. Of course we would prefer P5 membership, but BYU's current football mediocrity has more to do with coaching and not being able to beat its rival Utah or consistently beat middle-tier *G5* schools. In the last 5 years, BYU football has road wins over Wisconsin, Tennessee, Michigan State, Nebraska, and Arizona (x2), and home wins over USC, Mississippi State and Boise State...and competitive losses to UCLA, West Virginia, Missouri, and Cal.

But, we are 0-for-9 against the Ewetes and have recent losses to NIU, Toledo, ECU, and UMass. THOSE games are BYU's biggest problem...not its conference affiliation.
02-25-2020 11:42 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #43
RE: BYU drops language from it's Honor Code banning homosexuality
(02-25-2020 08:49 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-25-2020 06:08 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(02-23-2020 09:58 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-23-2020 09:43 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  I began this thread and did not want to get into the political and religious factors behind the change to the Honor Code. My question is, does the change in the Honor Code place BYU in a better position to garner a power conference invitation?

Well, this post was pretty laden with political factors and I'm not sure how anyone can answer the question posed without delving in to political or religious issues. It's the nature of the issue.

That said, I'll answer: For the Big 12 I don't think it moved the needle because I doubt the previous BYU stance was a big issue for the Big 12. For the PAC it probably was and so it likely removes one disqualifying factor, which is a good thing for BYU, but as so many others remain it probably didn't move the overall needle much either. Their position is 'better' but by a trivial amount.

I disagree, as Frank the Tank always says "Think like a University President" and a ban on homosexuality is something those Presidents would have an issue with. It's just a bad look and a question they rather not have to answer if BYU became a member. Other factors still stand in their way and i'm not saying this was the one issue keeping them out but I think it was still one of the factors those Presidents did not like about BYU.

Yes, I agree. It might not be the only issue for BYU, but it’s definitely a dealbreaker issue by itself for nearly all university presidents in today’s world. That might not have been the case 10 years ago, but it’s the case now.

Regardless, I think BYU and the LDS are trying to make changes to adjust to very different and rapidly changing attitudes toward homosexuality (particularly among young people where this isn’t even controversial issue) as opposed to Power Five membership. Certainly, BYU would welcome P5 membership, but this is a much bigger issue than a sports league.


Except... are they really changing anything?

f1do quoted the LDS about the change:

(02-22-2020 11:25 PM)f1do Wrote:  The updates to BYU's Honor Code and the other church-owned schools was "to be in line with the doctrines and policies of the church".

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2020/2/19/...vior-lgbtq

"Students sign the honor code agreeing to abstain from all sexual relationship outside a marriage between a man and a woman."


Homosexual activity is still forbidden by BYU students. So a student can "be" gay, but can't take any gay actions in the bedroom.

This is the same thing the Catholic Church has said for decades, if not centuries - in fact the celibate priesthood had long been seen as a socially acceptable vocation for gay men back when society expected "real" men to marry and have kids.

Most LGBT folks seem deeply unsatisfied by the Catholic version of LGBT tolerance, so I doubt they'll be persuaded by BYU's change.
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2020 11:47 AM by Captain Bearcat.)
02-25-2020 11:46 AM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #44
RE: BYU drops language from it's Honor Code banning homosexuality
It is somewhat similar to the Military going from the outright ban (and making recruits sign a non-homosexuality document) to don't ask don't tell.



And never underestimate the power of public opinion on Church Doctrine. I am not that old, but can remember when people of African descent were excluded from the priesthood and most temple activities, because the church believed the black skin was the Curse of Cain/Ham. But when the US Government threatened to pull tax exemption from the LDS church, the LDS president suddenly had a "Revelation from God" and reversed course.
02-25-2020 12:20 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #45
RE: BYU drops language from it's Honor Code banning homosexuality
(02-25-2020 12:20 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  It is somewhat similar to the Military going from the outright ban (and making recruits sign a non-homosexuality document) to don't ask don't tell.

And never underestimate the power of public opinion on Church Doctrine. I am not that old, but can remember when people of African descent were excluded from the priesthood and most temple activities, because the church believed the black skin was the Curse of Cain/Ham. But when the US Government threatened to pull tax exemption from the LDS church, the LDS president suddenly had a "Revelation from God" and reversed course.

I don't mean to hijack the OP and turn this into a religious discussion, but I am grateful that there is a prophet on the earth that receives revelation from God.

It is true that from the mid-1800s until 1978, the Church did not ordain to the priesthood men of black African descent or allow black men and women to participate in certain temple ordinances. But the post above mis-characterizes the role of public opinion on revelation. Here's a link to a more thorough discussion of the history and the revelation that led to the change in policy.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stud...d?lang=eng

"Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, or that it reflects unrighteous actions in a premortal life; that mixed-race marriages are a sin; or that blacks or people of any other race or ethnicity are inferior in any way to anyone else. Church leaders today unequivocally condemn all racism, past and present, in any form."
02-25-2020 02:04 PM
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Post: #46
RE: BYU drops language from it's Honor Code banning homosexuality
(02-22-2020 11:58 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  When I grew up, anyone who was perceived gay was socially ostracized, bullied, and had false rumors generated to humiliate them. And this was in a liberal area not that long ago. The progress made has been rapid and BYU jumping on board helps their chances.

That was the problem! 04-cheers
02-25-2020 02:14 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #47
RE: BYU drops language from it's Honor Code banning homosexuality
(02-25-2020 02:04 PM)YNot Wrote:  
(02-25-2020 12:20 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  It is somewhat similar to the Military going from the outright ban (and making recruits sign a non-homosexuality document) to don't ask don't tell.

And never underestimate the power of public opinion on Church Doctrine. I am not that old, but can remember when people of African descent were excluded from the priesthood and most temple activities, because the church believed the black skin was the Curse of Cain/Ham. But when the US Government threatened to pull tax exemption from the LDS church, the LDS president suddenly had a "Revelation from God" and reversed course.

I don't mean to hijack the OP and turn this into a religious discussion, but I am grateful that there is a prophet on the earth that receives revelation from God.

It is true that from the mid-1800s until 1978, the Church did not ordain to the priesthood men of black African descent or allow black men and women to participate in certain temple ordinances. But the post above mis-characterizes the role of public opinion on revelation. Here's a link to a more thorough discussion of the history and the revelation that led to the change in policy.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stud...d?lang=eng

"Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, or that it reflects unrighteous actions in a premortal life; that mixed-race marriages are a sin; or that blacks or people of any other race or ethnicity are inferior in any way to anyone else. Church leaders today unequivocally condemn all racism, past and present, in any form."

Literal white-washing of the issue...

https://www.politicususa.com/2012/06/10/...d-irs.html

A direct message from God to the President of the Church of Latter Day Saints? Or – and far more likely – a direct message from the Internal Revenue Service by way of then U.S. President Jimmy Carter threatening to revoke their non-profit status if they continued to discriminate against blacks?
02-25-2020 02:56 PM
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colohank Offline
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Post: #48
RE: BYU drops language from it's Honor Code banning homosexuality
"Under the Banner of Heaven," by Jon Krakauer. Interesting book.
02-25-2020 04:54 PM
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Post: #49
RE: BYU drops language from it's Honor Code banning homosexuality
(02-25-2020 04:54 PM)colohank Wrote:  "Under the Banner of Heaven," by Jon Krakauer. Interesting book.

Different topic for him.

I read "Into Thin Air" about the disastrous year on Everest, of which he was a part. Great book. It was really interesting reading "The Climb" by Boukreev about the same events with a different perspective. Both were part of the same expedition.
02-25-2020 08:43 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #50
RE: BYU drops language from it's Honor Code banning homosexuality
(02-22-2020 11:23 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  Rather, what are your thoughts as to how this decision may open the door for BYU joining a power conference?

I think this helps if the P12 needs to full a spot and BYU is in the frame. I don't think it helps getting into the Pac-12 as it currently exists. Going from 300% "No" to 250% "No" is still a hard "No".
02-27-2020 01:50 AM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #51
RE: BYU drops language from it's Honor Code banning homosexuality
Not so fast...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/05/us/byu-ho...index.html

Mormon Church delivers stinging rebuke to BYU students with letter stating homosexual behavior is 'not compatible' with its principles

Just two weeks ago, LGBTQ students at Brigham Young University were cheering after the school deleted a section in its honor code that banned "homosexual behavior." But on Wednesday, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints poured cold water on their celebrations after it clarified that same-sex romantic behavior is still "not compatible" with BYU's principles.

The announcement came in a letter penned by Elder Paul V. Johnson, the commissioner of the church's educational system. It was sent to all the students and employees at Mormon-owned schools, according to BYU, which tweeted out the letter.
"The moral standards of the Church did not change with the recent release of the General Handbook or the updated Honor Code," Johnson wrote. "Same-sex behavior cannot lead to eternal marriage and is therefore not compatible with the principles included in the Honor Code."
03-05-2020 01:07 PM
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Post: #52
RE: BYU drops language from it's Honor Code banning homosexuality
(03-05-2020 01:07 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Not so fast...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/05/us/byu-ho...index.html

Mormon Church delivers stinging rebuke to BYU students with letter stating homosexual behavior is 'not compatible' with its principles

Just two weeks ago, LGBTQ students at Brigham Young University were cheering after the school deleted a section in its honor code that banned "homosexual behavior." But on Wednesday, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints poured cold water on their celebrations after it clarified that same-sex romantic behavior is still "not compatible" with BYU's principles.

The announcement came in a letter penned by Elder Paul V. Johnson, the commissioner of the church's educational system. It was sent to all the students and employees at Mormon-owned schools, according to BYU, which tweeted out the letter.
"The moral standards of the Church did not change with the recent release of the General Handbook or the updated Honor Code," Johnson wrote. "Same-sex behavior cannot lead to eternal marriage and is therefore not compatible with the principles included in the Honor Code."

Are divorces prohibited?
03-05-2020 06:21 PM
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Post: #53
RE: BYU drops language from it's Honor Code banning homosexuality
(03-05-2020 06:21 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(03-05-2020 01:07 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Not so fast...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/05/us/byu-ho...index.html

Mormon Church delivers stinging rebuke to BYU students with letter stating homosexual behavior is 'not compatible' with its principles

Just two weeks ago, LGBTQ students at Brigham Young University were cheering after the school deleted a section in its honor code that banned "homosexual behavior." But on Wednesday, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints poured cold water on their celebrations after it clarified that same-sex romantic behavior is still "not compatible" with BYU's principles.

The announcement came in a letter penned by Elder Paul V. Johnson, the commissioner of the church's educational system. It was sent to all the students and employees at Mormon-owned schools, according to BYU, which tweeted out the letter.
"The moral standards of the Church did not change with the recent release of the General Handbook or the updated Honor Code," Johnson wrote. "Same-sex behavior cannot lead to eternal marriage and is therefore not compatible with the principles included in the Honor Code."

Are divorces prohibited?

No, divorces are allowed.
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2020 07:03 PM by f1do.)
03-05-2020 07:02 PM
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