Not sure I should post this since I'm aware of the potential backlash but below is the email I just sent to Jeff Bourne with a courtesy copy to Charlie King who Mr. Bourne included on an email response to me when I asked why we didn't pursue one of Brian O'Connor's assistants when we had our opening at the helm of our baseball program in the Summer of 2015.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. Bourne -

My wife, who's a Class of 1990 graduate and who was fortunate enough to witness the Lefty years while I'm a Class of 1987 graduate who witnessed the Lou Campanelli and John Thurston years are coming up this weekend to see the last Men's home game at the Convo which has a lot of memories for the two of us. I can't unfortunately say the same thing for my JMU Class of 2021 Senior stepson who will be attending his first Men's game with us Saturday afternoon. If it's not a fun and entertaining product to watch, millennials aren't going to attend because it won't hold their attention as I'm sure attendance figures confirm.

I have to say much like I did when I along with others reached out to you in November of 2013 about a needed change at the helm of our football program, it's time for a change in the Men's program again. After attending the CAA Tournament in Baltimore and watching how pathetic Matt Brady's last team played against William & Mary I thought some new energy at the helm of the Men's Basketball team was necessary but it's much worse than it was in 2016.

Please do us alums a favor and make what many of us see as the most important Men's Basketball hire I believe in your tenure and the most important one for the program possibly since Dr. Carrier and Dean Ehlers hired Lou Campanelli as we move into the Atlantic Union Bank Arena in the Fall/Winter of 2020.

It's not time to go on the cheap or go with another fellow JMU alum. Those experiments haven't worked as the team's W-L record shows. We need a proven winner to take over and lead this program.

Thanks for allowing me the time reach out to you with my concerns.

Signed Xxx Xxxxxx

Lol. Your email is one or two years too late.

JMU will head into the $103 million new arena with the most negative momentum possible. Donations have suffered, ticket sales for next year have suffered, the Tiny remaining fan base has suffered.
Allowing it to get to this point is a case study in complete and utter mismanagement.
Not just complete mismanagement.
Not just utter mismanagement.
But complete AND utter mismanagement.

(02-20-2020 09:29 PM)JMU1987UVA1998 Wrote:  Not sure I should post this since I'm aware of the potential backlash but below is the email I just sent to Jeff Bourne with a courtesy copy to Charlie King who Mr. Bourne included on an email response to me when I asked why we didn't pursue one of Brian O'Connor's assistants when we had our opening at the helm of our baseball program in the Summer of 2015.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. Bourne -

My wife, who's a Class of 1990 graduate and who was fortunate enough to witness the Lefty years while I'm a Class of 1987 graduate who witnessed the Lou Campanelli and John Thurston years are coming up this weekend to see the last Men's home game at the Convo which has a lot of memories for the two of us. I can't unfortunately say the same thing for my JMU Class of 2021 Senior stepson who will be attending his first Men's game with us Saturday afternoon. If it's not a fun and entertaining product to watch, millennials aren't going to attend because it won't hold their attention as I'm sure attendance figures confirm.

I have to say much like I did when I along with others reached out to you in November of 2013 about a needed change at the helm of our football program, it's time for a change in the Men's program again. After attending the CAA Tournament in Baltimore and watching how pathetic Matt Brady's last team played against William & Mary I thought some new energy at the helm of the Men's Basketball team was necessary but it's much worse than it was in 2016.

Please do us alums a favor and make what many of us see as the most important Men's Basketball hire I believe in your tenure and the most important one for the program possibly since Dr. Carrier and Dean Ehlers hired Lou Campanelli as we move into the Atlantic Union Bank Arena in the Fall/Winter of 2020.

It's not time to go on the cheap or go with another fellow JMU alum. Those experiments haven't worked as the team's W-L record shows. We need a proven winner to take over and lead this program.

Thanks for allowing me the time reach out to you with my concerns.

Signed Xxx Xxxxxx

Yeah, that is probably the most important message. End the misery now! Absolutely no more f***ing around! Pay up!

I might have included "it's about time you remove your head from your ass" but otherwise sounds good.

You were too kind and wordy.

Nice job.

I think for my emails l will focus on the need to be swift and bold with the new hire. The need to bring in a proven winner as a head coach. The need to make a statement. I will ask them if they have a list the way that Bourne has publicly stated he keeps a list of potential football coaches. I will plead with them not to hire a search firm and waste valuable time and money in the process. I'm going to copy Alger on my note. He has responded before to emails about JMU conference movement. We need to blitz these guys with emails and social media posts- blow up their in boxes and put their feet to the fire. Force them to make a bold move.

Has somebody posted the email addresses of JB, CK and JA?

As NJ said, swiftness is the first tell tale sign of intent and preparation. I hope we are well past the "this is how JMU does things" apology.

(02-21-2020 07:06 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  Has somebody posted the email addresses of JB, CK and JA?

As NJ said, swiftness is the first tell tale sign of intent and preparation. I hope we are well past the "this is how JMU does things" apology.

https://www.jmusports.com/staff-directory - Bourne and the rest of the athletic staff including WOATHCLR if you want to go there

https://www.jmu.edu/adminfinance/people/...rles.shtml - Head Bean Counter

https://www.jmu.edu/president/offices-an...dent.shtml - Boss of the Head Bean Counter

(02-20-2020 09:29 PM)JMU1987UVA1998 Wrote:  Not sure I should post this since I'm aware of the potential backlash but below is the email I just sent to Jeff Bourne with a courtesy copy to Charlie King who Mr. Bourne included on an email response to me when I asked why we didn't pursue one of Brian O'Connor's assistants when we had our opening at the helm of our baseball program in the Summer of 2015.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. Bourne -

My wife, who's a Class of 1990 graduate and who was fortunate enough to witness the Lefty years while I'm a Class of 1987 graduate who witnessed the Lou Campanelli and John Thurston years are coming up this weekend to see the last Men's home game at the Convo which has a lot of memories for the two of us. I can't unfortunately say the same thing for my JMU Class of 2021 Senior stepson who will be attending his first Men's game with us Saturday afternoon. If it's not a fun and entertaining product to watch, millennials aren't going to attend because it won't hold their attention as I'm sure attendance figures confirm.

I have to say much like I did when I along with others reached out to you in November of 2013 about a needed change at the helm of our football program, it's time for a change in the Men's program again. After attending the CAA Tournament in Baltimore and watching how pathetic Matt Brady's last team played against William & Mary I thought some new energy at the helm of the Men's Basketball team was necessary but it's much worse than it was in 2016.

Please do us alums a favor and make what many of us see as the most important Men's Basketball hire I believe in your tenure and the most important one for the program possibly since Dr. Carrier and Dean Ehlers hired Lou Campanelli as we move into the Atlantic Union Bank Arena in the Fall/Winter of 2020.

It's not time to go on the cheap or go with another fellow JMU alum. Those experiments haven't worked as the team's W-L record shows. We need a proven winner to take over and lead this program.

Thanks for allowing me the time reach out to you with my concerns.

Signed Xxx Xxxxxx

Good email and appropriate without going on a personal rant.....good job.

Not to be devil's advocate but if I were AD of a school, you can even take JMU out of it, and I saw my MBB attendance dropping like crazy and I saw MBB attendance across the country dropping pretty quickly I would be nervous. If I looked at a school like Wofford who got a 7 seed in the NCAA tournament last year and had one of their best seasons ever and had an avg of 2,300 fans in a 3,600 seat arena...I would be nervous. If I looked at Texas who just spent a ton of money to get a hot young up and coming coach to lead our program only to see the team struggle and attendance plummet...I would be nervous. If I looked at a school like Kentucky, a true blue blood who had a great team last year but once again saw attendance drop despite paying a ton of money for a coach and having a great team and having great match-ups...I would be nervous. If I read a recent article about the UNC-Duke game, arguably the hottest ticket in College BB every year, having historically low turnout from the students tenting out to get tickets...I would be nervous.

I am not saying that we don't need to get a great coach. I am not saying that paying a coach who is a proven winner is a bad idea. I am not saying a fancy new arena won't help. I am not saying winning games will not bring fans in. However....

I am saying that I think we are over simplifying a bigger problem. Someone posted on another thread that the math was simple. We spend a lot of money to get a great coach and then attendance doubles and we can easily pay for the new coach and some. The struggle I would have is I were an AD and budgets were a real thing and getting people to show up was a real issue, the part I would have a hard time with is looking at the attendance dropping everywhere, the attendance dropping at the blue bloods, the attendance being low for the mid-major who is making a historical run, the attendance dropping at the hottest game when you are having 1 down year, the attendance being dismal at a school that invested a ton of money into a winning coach who is not replicating things. We like to think it's as simple as "get a good coach, pay them a lot, the building will be packed and you will rake in the cash" none of it is that easy and I think that scenario is the most unlikely. Looking at the current picture of men's basketball and the odds it is much more likely you get a good coach and pay them a lot of money and they don't win. Or they win but the fans don't show up.

I'm not saying I know the answer but I think we think it is way easier than it is. The days of the blue bloods selling out every game and raking in cash our diminishing let alone the guys lower on the pole. I think w need to do something to reverse things but we also need to have realistic expectations that we probably aren't going to have sold out games and a rabid fanbase at every game because that is getting more and more rare in all of sports now.

(02-21-2020 09:12 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  Not to be devil's advocate but if I were AD of a school, you can even take JMU out of it, and I saw my MBB attendance dropping like crazy and I saw MBB attendance across the country dropping pretty quickly I would be nervous. If I looked at a school like Wofford who got a 7 seed in the NCAA tournament last year and had one of their best seasons ever and had an avg of 2,300 fans in a 3,600 seat arena...I would be nervous. If I looked at Texas who just spent a ton of money to get a hot young up and coming coach to lead our program only to see the team struggle and attendance plummet...I would be nervous. If I looked at a school like Kentucky, a true blue blood who had a great team last year but once again saw attendance drop despite paying a ton of money for a coach and having a great team and having great match-ups...I would be nervous. If I read a recent article about the UNC-Duke game, arguably the hottest ticket in College BB every year, having historically low turnout from the students tenting out to get tickets...I would be nervous.

I am not saying that we don't need to get a great coach. I am not saying that paying a coach who is a proven winner is a bad idea. I am not saying a fancy new arena won't help. I am not saying winning games will not bring fans in. However....

I am saying that I think we are over simplifying a bigger problem. Someone posted on another thread that the math was simple. We spend a lot of money to get a great coach and then attendance doubles and we can easily pay for the new coach and some. The struggle I would have is I were an AD and budgets were a real thing and getting people to show up was a real issue, the part I would have a hard time with is looking at the attendance dropping everywhere, the attendance dropping at the blue bloods, the attendance being low for the mid-major who is making a historical run, the attendance dropping at the hottest game when you are having 1 down year, the attendance being dismal at a school that invested a ton of money into a winning coach who is not replicating things. We like to think it's as simple as "get a good coach, pay them a lot, the building will be packed and you will rake in the cash" none of it is that easy and I think that scenario is the most unlikely. Looking at the current picture of men's basketball and the odds it is much more likely you get a good coach and pay them a lot of money and they don't win. Or they win but the fans don't show up.

I'm not saying I know the answer but I think we think it is way easier than it is. The days of the blue bloods selling out every game and raking in cash our diminishing let alone the guys lower on the pole. I think w need to do something to reverse things but we also need to have realistic expectations that we probably aren't going to have sold out games and a rabid fanbase at every game because that is getting more and more rare in all of sports now.

+1 very logical take on all of this

There are headwinds and challenges for sure but all things connect- sustained winning makes it easier to schedule better more interesting opponents, sustained winning generates excitement with students and community. NEw facilities help.

Jmu hasn’t had sustained winning so they are really behind the eight ball. This is an opportunity to make a bet take a chance coupled with the respectable schedule for next season and the new arena- the last and biggest piece is a statement hire- someone with a track record someone who casual fans and students know and Jmu can really promote. It needs to be a splash even if you overpay for it/ too much invested in the immediate success of the basketball program and at this time at Jmu and Jmu athletics so much hinges on this thing getting cranked up and cranked up quickly.

(02-21-2020 09:12 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  Not to be devil's advocate but if I were AD of a school, you can even take JMU out of it, and I saw my MBB attendance dropping like crazy and I saw MBB attendance across the country dropping pretty quickly I would be nervous. If I looked at a school like Wofford who got a 7 seed in the NCAA tournament last year and had one of their best seasons ever and had an avg of 2,300 fans in a 3,600 seat arena...I would be nervous. If I looked at Texas who just spent a ton of money to get a hot young up and coming coach to lead our program only to see the team struggle and attendance plummet...I would be nervous. If I looked at a school like Kentucky, a true blue blood who had a great team last year but once again saw attendance drop despite paying a ton of money for a coach and having a great team and having great match-ups...I would be nervous. If I read a recent article about the UNC-Duke game, arguably the hottest ticket in College BB every year, having historically low turnout from the students tenting out to get tickets...I would be nervous.

I am not saying that we don't need to get a great coach. I am not saying that paying a coach who is a proven winner is a bad idea. I am not saying a fancy new arena won't help. I am not saying winning games will not bring fans in. However....

I am saying that I think we are over simplifying a bigger problem. Someone posted on another thread that the math was simple. We spend a lot of money to get a great coach and then attendance doubles and we can easily pay for the new coach and some. The struggle I would have is I were an AD and budgets were a real thing and getting people to show up was a real issue, the part I would have a hard time with is looking at the attendance dropping everywhere, the attendance dropping at the blue bloods, the attendance being low for the mid-major who is making a historical run, the attendance dropping at the hottest game when you are having 1 down year, the attendance being dismal at a school that invested a ton of money into a winning coach who is not replicating things. We like to think it's as simple as "get a good coach, pay them a lot, the building will be packed and you will rake in the cash" none of it is that easy and I think that scenario is the most unlikely. Looking at the current picture of men's basketball and the odds it is much more likely you get a good coach and pay them a lot of money and they don't win. Or they win but the fans don't show up.

I'm not saying I know the answer but I think we think it is way easier than it is. The days of the blue bloods selling out every game and raking in cash our diminishing let alone the guys lower on the pole. I think w need to do something to reverse things but we also need to have realistic expectations that we probably aren't going to have sold out games and a rabid fanbase at every game because that is getting more and more rare in all of sports now.

I think you make some good points. I agree that there's more to it than just throwing a lot of money at a coach. Throwing a lot of money at a guy doesn't mean that guy is going to be good, bring the program success and ultimately bring back fans. At the same time, paying someone a minimum salary doesn't fix it either.
But here's the thing: a coach is what we need to fix it. Not just any coach. Not just a guy with a name that people recognize. It has to be the RIGHT coach.
The ultimate question then is: who is the right coach? The right coach is the kind of coach that JMU needs right now. Look really close at the state of our program.
Ultimately we need a guy that can win. That's a no brainer. We need a guy that has not only shown he can win, but can win consistently. A random 20 win year here and there isn't going to cut it.
Most importantly, we need a guy that has proven he can turn around a program. Some guys can win but do not have the capabilities to turn a losing program into a winning one. We need a guy that knows what it takes to turn a losing culture into a winning one. It doesn't matter if the guy is Div III, II or I in my opinion. If he's proven he can do it, hire that person.
We cannot afford to take a chance on an assistant coach of any program. Doesn't matter how good the program is. We cannot afford right now to bring in a guy with zero head coaching experience.
But you bring in the right guy and let him do what he was hired to do and I do think the rest will take care of itself. Wins will come, fans will return, revenue will increase. Even if the guy is here just a few years, we need someone to leave this program in better shape than it was. That would be something that hasn't happened in decades.

While I appreciate the letter and effort, if this administration looks up in the stands at the Convo for the past 5-10 years and doesn't "get it" then we are hopeless. In other words, we can expect another crap hire on the heels of the last 5 or so crap hires.

JMU has literally lost an entire generation (and perhaps a second one) of students who don't give a monkey's testicle about MBB. I'd be willing to wager less than 1 in 100 JMU students over the past decade identify with MBB. By "identify" I don't even mean buying tickets and going to games. I simply mean watch from home, know when the team is playing, check the scores, etc.

I mean, as others who have been regularly going to games over the past 5+ years will attest, there's a lot and I mean A LOT of gray haired people in the dwindling numbers of attendees to MBB games. My much better half and I are two of them. Point being, students don't care. Young alumni don't care. Lost opportunities from poor decision making.

It can be saved. I've been through it. I was a student at Ga Tech when Bobby Cremins came along. GT students wore bags over their heads to games before his arrival (in a city that was around 2 million people at the time). MBB was an absolute joke. The arena was so dark (sound familiar?) when GT entered the ACC the old Jefferson Pilot ACC TV syndication production folks told GT they would have to renovate the lighting or no home games would be televised. I kid you not. In just 4 years after Cremins arrival, GT won its first ACC title. Not meant to be a walk down history road for GT, but instead intended to advise it can be done. Fans can and will get excited. Especially JMU folks. I have faith in that. Even some from the lost generations of students and young alums.

A lot of GT folks (at least the few who cared) at the time of Cremins' hire were much like the folks at Duke (who do/did care) when Ratface was hired. That is, they said "who the heck is this guy?" I encourage JMU folks to get behind whoever the new head coach is from Day 1 and give him a chance. Yes, the admin may screw it up yet again. In fact, history suggests that will be the case. But, you never know. Let's hope they get it right for a change.

It is going to take sustained winning at a very good clip to erase the damage from the last 2.5 decades for the fans to REALLY come back. Even when Matt Brady was winning it always felt hit or miss. We never had more than two consecutive winning seasons and couldn't put back to back 20W seasons during his tenure.

It also doesn't help that the in state and local rivals, GMU, VCU, ODU, ECU, American and UR are no longer there as must watch home matchups that meant a little extra for the fanbase.

(02-21-2020 07:49 AM)JMU_Newbill Wrote:  

(02-21-2020 07:06 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  Has somebody posted the email addresses of JB, CK and JA?

As NJ said, swiftness is the first tell tale sign of intent and preparation. I hope we are well past the "this is how JMU does things" apology.

https://www.jmusports.com/staff-directory - Bourne and the rest of the athletic staff including WOATHCLR if you want to go there

Hey now, he's not even close to the WOAT. Dean Keener has that market cornered, perhaps forever. Single digit wins 3 straight years is hard to beat.

If we ask fair questions and don't get clear answers then what we need to do is clear, stop giving jmu athletics our hard earned cash.

Most of the time we are asking fair questions.

A lot of people are talking about "name" or "splash" hires. Outside of something crazy like a Shaka Smart or a Rick Pitino, casual fans aren't going to care about the name. Even a Steve Forbes, who is most likely not a possibility, and a slam dunk based on his resume, isn't going to excite casual fans. The minute any coach we have starts losing, interest will go go back down immediately. Creating a new culture that can absorb losses, will take consecutive years of success with a strong marketing campaign and our growth in interest will be gradual not instant.

Another thing is regarding attendance and how much it actually matters. The best seat of nearly any sporting event in the world is right on your couch. This isn't the 80s and 90s, technology, priorities, they are all different now, so is attendance. Even if you see attendance increase, it's mostly students that we already cashed in on with their student fees, so no profit there. You're going to still see mostly the same season ticket holders at games going forward no matter what happens. Growing season ticket holders is a long and difficult process. There is very little monetary gains by hiring any coach year 1. It's an investment that will hopefully grow over time, but has risk like any other investment.

Nobody on here doubts winning will increase revenue, but right now ADs are doing the math on actually how much the revenue will increase and IF they can afford this new coach and that's IF he can win here. There are a hundred moving parts with no easy or guaranteed fixes. You have to factor in the optimistic purples shaded scenarios with the jaded reality we are living in.

(02-21-2020 10:55 AM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(02-21-2020 07:49 AM)JMU_Newbill Wrote:  

(02-21-2020 07:06 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  Has somebody posted the email addresses of JB, CK and JA?

As NJ said, swiftness is the first tell tale sign of intent and preparation. I hope we are well past the "this is how JMU does things" apology.

https://www.jmusports.com/staff-directory - Bourne and the rest of the athletic staff including WOATHCLR if you want to go there

Hey now, he's not even close to the WOAT. Dean Keener has that market cornered, perhaps forever. Single digit wins 3 straight years is hard to beat.

At least Keener was improving at the end of his tenure after starting with nothing. LR took a decent team, cut their wins in half, and has gotten progressively worse during his tenure. Not defending Keener at all. He was terrible for all 4 years of my time at JMU. However, 07-08 was certainly better than his first 3, which is the opposite of LR. I don't think I'm arguing that LR is WORSE, but he's certainly in the conversation. Keener was consistently worse, but was on the way up (which made Brady's job at least slightly easier). This year's team may be the worst ranked team in the history of the program if we can't pull off another win...which...is likely...and will tie for the worst conference performance in program history.

Year before Keener started: 7-21 (3-16) #273
Keener's last year: 13-17 (5-13) #237
----
Year before Rowe started: 21-11 (11-8) #107
Rowe's (hopefully) last year: 9-17 (2-13) #295 (so far...projections after CAAT would be 9-21 (2-17) and like #310-320)

Yeah, that's one stat and not in context, but...let's not act like LR is head and shoulders above Keener.