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MBB Game #27 - Drexel
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TribeFan1983 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: MBB Game #27 - Drexel
(02-13-2020 11:53 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  It's good that we got the much needed win, but I'm not feeling great about our play. I love Nate, but he had more missed 3-pointers (3) than touches in the post (2). For this team to reach its potential, about half of Nate's touches should be coming in the post. If he continues to start his possessions on the perimeter and attempting to drive then he will continue to pick up offensive fouls. Tonight he had a charge and an over-the-back trying to follow a missed shot on a perimeter drive. We can't afford Nate on the bench with foul trouble because he's playing on the perimeter and picking up offensive fouls for charges and ticky-tack illegal screens. It makes no sense to me! Nate is a candidate for the best center in the country and we basically have him playing like he's the 2 guard!! So frustrating. The offense should be built around getting Nate the ball as close to the basket as possible.

While I'm venting, I know Andy's personality is not going to change and he's more a finesse player, but he's got to go stronger on his post ups and not always settle for the fade and generally be stronger with the ball.

Final rant, Quinn should not be shooting 3-pointers. We have six or seven players that shoot a respectable percentage from 3 (>30%). Quinn is sub 25% on the season with over 40 attempts. Time to take away his green light. Quinn makes valuable contributions and is a tough, heady player, but his 3-pt shooting is a net negative.

There are lots of positives to the season, but as we head into the home stretch the team needs to hone strengths and eliminate/limit weaknesses. We are not improving and are even backsliding in some areas.

I too have been disappointed with Andy. In the low post, I'd like to see him, just once, fake left and go up with his right hand. Nate has developed his right handed shot so well. It's a shame Andy hasn't.
02-14-2020 07:34 AM
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LION KING Offline
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Post: #62
RE: MBB Game #27 - Drexel
(02-14-2020 07:34 AM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  
(02-13-2020 11:53 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  It's good that we got the much needed win, but I'm not feeling great about our play. I love Nate, but he had more missed 3-pointers (3) than touches in the post (2). For this team to reach its potential, about half of Nate's touches should be coming in the post. If he continues to start his possessions on the perimeter and attempting to drive then he will continue to pick up offensive fouls. Tonight he had a charge and an over-the-back trying to follow a missed shot on a perimeter drive. We can't afford Nate on the bench with foul trouble because he's playing on the perimeter and picking up offensive fouls for charges and ticky-tack illegal screens. It makes no sense to me! Nate is a candidate for the best center in the country and we basically have him playing like he's the 2 guard!! So frustrating. The offense should be built around getting Nate the ball as close to the basket as possible.

While I'm venting, I know Andy's personality is not going to change and he's more a finesse player, but he's got to go stronger on his post ups and not always settle for the fade and generally be stronger with the ball.

Final rant, Quinn should not be shooting 3-pointers. We have six or seven players that shoot a respectable percentage from 3 (>30%). Quinn is sub 25% on the season with over 40 attempts. Time to take away his green light. Quinn makes valuable contributions and is a tough, heady player, but his 3-pt shooting is a net negative.

There are lots of positives to the season, but as we head into the home stretch the team needs to hone strengths and eliminate/limit weaknesses. We are not improving and are even backsliding in some areas.

I too have been disappointed with Andy. In the low post, I'd like to see him, just once, fake left and go up with his right hand. Nate has developed his right handed shot so well. It's a shame Andy hasn't.

Why all the negativity ? The team is 9-5 with a real shot at the # 2 seed in the tournament, what's wrong with that ? It doesn't matter that we are a team like the movie Groundhogs Day, we just keep repeating are same mistakes game after game.
02-14-2020 07:48 AM
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dan10 Offline
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RE: MBB Game #27 - Drexel
Congrats guys. We had no answer to Knight and you had just enough shots fall from 3 from your supporting cast (Barnes). You guys struggled mightily when Knight was on the bench. If I were coaching against you guys I would absolutely encourage Knight to drive and purposely try to draw charges and get him out. When Knight was not in, your guys seemed completely lost on offense. With that said, every time we got close your guys focused and went on a run.

I think everyone knew Nate was getting that ball but with Butler already fouled out, we didnt have anyone that would be able to stop Nate. Obvious play call with no real obvious way to defend it. Though we should have doubled him at all costs and made him give the ball to anyone else. But I cannot be too upset as you guys were clearly the better team throughout.
02-14-2020 08:03 AM
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ColonelEbirt Offline
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MBB Game #27 - Drexel
(02-14-2020 06:34 AM)Rocco Wrote:  W&M made 48% of their threes against JMU six games ago. Since then they're 32-128 (25%) from deep. They picked a bad time to forget how to shoot.

I hate to say it’s only about one thing, but there’s a lot of truth to acknowledging just how different things would be (and feel) if we were shooting even mid-30% from 3 over the last few weeks. We’d have 1-2 more wins. The paint would be more open for Nate to get downlow touches. And even victories like last night would have felt more like comfortable wins instead of nail-biters. Let’s hope we bring our hot shooting hands to DC.


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02-14-2020 09:30 AM
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ScottyB757 Offline
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RE: MBB Game #27 - Drexel
(02-14-2020 08:03 AM)dan10 Wrote:  Congrats guys. We had no answer to Knight and you had just enough shots fall from 3 from your supporting cast (Barnes). You guys struggled mightily when Knight was on the bench.

In the first half, Nate went to the bench with two fouls at the 8:20 mark and the score 26-19. Nate sat the remainder of the half, and WM outscored Drexel 17-15. In the second half, scoring was even when Nate was on the bench.

If that's struggling mightily, I'll take it.

While I'm here...with Bryce assuming primary ball-handling duties last night, WM tied a season-low with 7 turnovers. My stress levels are much lower with BB running the floor, making good passes, and taking high percentage shots - if a 5'6" guard driving the lane multiple times for layups can be called "high percentage". I hope we continue to see that Bryce on the floor going forward.
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2020 09:36 AM by ScottyB757.)
02-14-2020 09:33 AM
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Tribe32 Offline
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Post: #66
RE: MBB Game #27 - Drexel
Barnes is 5'10" of 11" not 5'6". I've stood right next to him several times. He does look little out there though.
02-14-2020 10:07 AM
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Tribe32 Offline
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RE: MBB Game #27 - Drexel
(02-14-2020 09:30 AM)ColonelEbirt Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 06:34 AM)Rocco Wrote:  W&M made 48% of their threes against JMU six games ago. Since then they're 32-128 (25%) from deep. They picked a bad time to forget how to shoot.

I hate to say it’s only about one thing, but there’s a lot of truth to acknowledging just how different things would be (and feel) if we were shooting even mid-30% from 3 over the last few weeks. We’d have 1-2 more wins. The paint would be more open for Nate to get downlow touches. And even victories like last night would have felt more like comfortable wins instead of nail-biters. Let’s hope we bring our hot shooting hands to DC.


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The counter to this is "what if we were on a crazy hot streak early in the season that made us believe that we could shoot well from 3?" Maybe a couple more losses.

Go look at our 3 point percentages overall and then look at them for the conference only games. 32%. That's not good when almost 40% of our attempts are three pointers. This tells me that we're probably more like the way we've been lately and not what we saw early on. I think the defensive intensity by our opponents in conference play is amped up too.
02-14-2020 10:12 AM
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ScottyB757 Offline
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RE: MBB Game #27 - Drexel
(02-14-2020 10:07 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Barnes is 5'10" of 11" not 5'6". I've stood right next to him several times. He does look little out there though.

Should have checked...didn't mean to sell anyone......short.

04-cheers
02-14-2020 10:19 AM
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Zorch Offline
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RE: MBB Game #27 - Drexel
(02-14-2020 08:03 AM)dan10 Wrote:  ...Though we should have doubled him at all costs and made him give the ball to anyone else.

Miguel Ayesa was wide open just past the 3-point line at the top of the key on that play. He was begging for the ball and was already in his shooting crouch waiting for the pass. However, since Knight also scored 3 on that play, no one can quibble with the decision. As good as Ayesa has been, I want Knight taking that shot in that situation. Then, later this year, maybe Ayesa will get the ball with a chance to win it -- a la Marcus Thornton to Daniel Dixon to win the CAAT semifinal game against Hofstra.
02-14-2020 10:45 AM
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Tribe4SF Online
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RE: MBB Game #27 - Drexel
Impressed with Van Vliet's focus and strong play on the boards. Physical like we haven't seen in a while.
02-14-2020 10:51 AM
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dan10 Offline
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RE: MBB Game #27 - Drexel
(02-14-2020 10:45 AM)Zorch Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 08:03 AM)dan10 Wrote:  ...Though we should have doubled him at all costs and made him give the ball to anyone else.

Miguel Ayesa was wide open just past the 3-point line at the top of the key on that play. He was begging for the ball and was already in his shooting crouch waiting for the pass. However, since Knight also scored 3 on that play, no one can quibble with the decision. As good as Ayesa has been, I want Knight taking that shot in that situation. Then, later this year, maybe Ayesa will get the ball with a chance to win it -- a la Marcus Thornton to Daniel Dixon to win the CAAT semifinal game against Hofstra.

Again, Knight was absolutely killing us. Make him give it up. If the other guy makes the shot, you can live with that. But make somebody else make the clutch shot. That was all I am saying.

As far as the struggling part when Knight was out. In the end you ended up about even. I was talking more look at when he went out. We immediately went on a run that led to W&M timeout. We got very close then you always seemed to hit a dagger 3 and then went on runs yourself. So yes that eventually balanced out and you end up just over, but if you thought you team looked and felt the same without him, we can agree to disagree. Any time the best player in the conference is not there, you will obviously take a step back, that is not my point here, my point is there were clear stretches when he wasnt in that we made quick runs and you guys looked completely lost on offense out there. It seemed and felt more dramatic than it should for a single player. Thats all I am trying to say.
02-14-2020 11:54 AM
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WMTribe90 Offline
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RE: MBB Game #27 - Drexel
(02-14-2020 10:51 AM)Tribe4SF Wrote:  Impressed with Van Vliet's focus and strong play on the boards. Physical like we haven't seen in a while.

My critique of Andy was of his offensive game. Andy is very strong on the defensive boards and is overall pretty solid defensively.

On offense he is good for 2-3 TOs a game where is stripped of the ball or he tries to force a pass into a tight spot. And, for a 7-footer, too many of his attempts are fading IMO. I can't think of time when Andy attacked the rim to dunk on a smaller player or finished through contact for an "and 1".

Not trying to be overly critical of a very good player, but these are things I think good coaching improves in a player over the course of a season. These are the type of incremental improvements that can get us over the Tournament hump.
02-14-2020 12:06 PM
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dan10 Offline
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RE: MBB Game #27 - Drexel
(02-14-2020 12:06 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  My critique of Andy was of his offensive game. Andy is very strong on the defensive boards and is overall pretty solid defensively.

That should not be too surprising with him coming from Wisconsin. They are usually pretty stout on defense, have to imagine that plays some part.
02-14-2020 03:38 PM
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Tribe32 Offline
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RE: MBB Game #27 - Drexel
I know this is hard, and probably not everyone's favorite topic, but you have to envision Van Vliet in Tony's offense. I think he would be pretty good with the high post, back cuts, screens, etc. Plus he would be able to drop a three from there if nobody guarded him close. Maybe the perfect 5 in Shaver's system
02-14-2020 03:54 PM
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TribeFan1983 Offline
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RE: MBB Game #27 - Drexel
(02-14-2020 03:38 PM)dan10 Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 12:06 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  My critique of Andy was of his offensive game. Andy is very strong on the defensive boards and is overall pretty solid defensively.

That should not be too surprising with him coming from Wisconsin. They are usually pretty stout on defense, have to imagine that plays some part.

Andy was a 7'0, 230 lb. guy who insisted on playing a finesse game. Must have driven the Wisconsin coaches crazy.
02-14-2020 03:55 PM
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ScottyB757 Offline
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RE: MBB Game #27 - Drexel
(02-14-2020 03:55 PM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 03:38 PM)dan10 Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 12:06 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  My critique of Andy was of his offensive game. Andy is very strong on the defensive boards and is overall pretty solid defensively.

That should not be too surprising with him coming from Wisconsin. They are usually pretty stout on defense, have to imagine that plays some part.

Andy was a 7'0, 230 lb. guy who insisted on playing a finesse game. Must have driven the Wisconsin coaches crazy.

This is the more likely scenario. Andy's skill set is not that of your everyday seven-footer.
02-14-2020 04:53 PM
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dan10 Offline
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RE: MBB Game #27 - Drexel
(02-14-2020 04:53 PM)ScottyB757 Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 03:55 PM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 03:38 PM)dan10 Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 12:06 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  My critique of Andy was of his offensive game. Andy is very strong on the defensive boards and is overall pretty solid defensively.

That should not be too surprising with him coming from Wisconsin. They are usually pretty stout on defense, have to imagine that plays some part.

Andy was a 7'0, 230 lb. guy who insisted on playing a finesse game. Must have driven the Wisconsin coaches crazy.

This is the more likely scenario. Andy's skill set is not that of your everyday seven-footer.

I also agree. He isnt physical enough for them. But that doesnt mean he didnt learn defense there even as a poor fit.
02-15-2020 07:42 AM
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TribeFan1983 Offline
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RE: MBB Game #27 - Drexel
(02-15-2020 07:42 AM)dan10 Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 04:53 PM)ScottyB757 Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 03:55 PM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 03:38 PM)dan10 Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 12:06 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  My critique of Andy was of his offensive game. Andy is very strong on the defensive boards and is overall pretty solid defensively.

That should not be too surprising with him coming from Wisconsin. They are usually pretty stout on defense, have to imagine that plays some part.

Andy was a 7'0, 230 lb. guy who insisted on playing a finesse game. Must have driven the Wisconsin coaches crazy.

This is the more likely scenario. Andy's skill set is not that of your everyday seven-footer.

I also agree. He isnt physical enough for them. But that doesnt mean he didnt learn defense there even as a poor fit.

After this season, Andy will have a fine career as a rotational player in the EuroLeague.
02-15-2020 08:30 AM
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Tribe32 Offline
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RE: MBB Game #27 - Drexel
I think Andy might do better than that.
02-15-2020 09:27 AM
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