He denounces socialism but would foster it on his country’s citizens, why? Because he values his party ahead of his country.

Sanders is a European socialists idea men like Norway, Sweden and the likes. They are first in health care with healthy citizens and have something similar to Medicare For All. If we want to be first? We should look to those countries.

(02-09-2020 05:14 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Sanders is a European socialists idea men like Norway, Sweden and the likes. They are first in health care with healthy citizens and have something similar to Medicare For All. If we want to be first? We should look to those countries.

Why not just move to those Utopias? Pretty sure we have more people on Medicare here than those two countries combined. And exactly what does "First in healthcare" mean?

(02-09-2020 05:14 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Sanders is a European socialists idea men like Norway, Sweden and the likes. They are first in health care with healthy citizens and have something similar to Medicare For All. If we want to be first? We should look to those countries.

This is a Leftist fallacy. Norway and Sweden actually have substandard medical care.

Politicians in the U.S. like Bernie Sanders praise Denmark for its relative income equality, its free universities, parental leave, subsidized childcare, and national health system. That all sounds pretty good, right?

“It is fantastic in theory, except that, in Denmark, the quality of the free education and health care is substandard: They are way down on the PISA [Programme for International Student Assessment] educational rankings, have the lowest life expectancy in the region, and the highest rates of death from cancer. And there is broad consensus that the economic model of a public sector and welfare state on this scale is unsustainable. The Danes’ dirty secret is that its public sector has been propped up by — now dwindling — oil revenues. In Norway’s case, of course, it’s no secret.”

Why Denmark isn’t a utopian

At least according to this....

(02-09-2020 05:14 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Sanders is a European socialists idea men like Norway, Sweden and the likes.

Not at all. Norway and Sweden are capitalist societies with a safety net. They do not have the massive redistribution of income and wealth that Bernie and Fauxcohontas, among others, propose. Bernie's redistribution schemes clearly put him on the socialist/communist side of the divide. Fauxcohontas's are more fascist.

Quote:They are first in health care with healthy citizens and have something similar to Medicare For All. If we want to be first? We should look to those countries.

No, they aren't. Not close. No serious study has ever ranked them first. The countries that have ranked first in major studies are France and Holland. They are both Bismarck universal private care/insurance countries. The Bismarcks as a group consistently rank higher than the single-provider countries (Sweden, Norway, UK), which in turn consistently rank higher than the single-payer countries (Canada, Russia, China).

Remember the 2000 WHO study where the USA where the USA ranked 37th? Let's drill down deeper into that. First, there were a number of tiny countries (Andorra, San Marino, Monaco, others) at the top. Why? Because the study gave far more weight (about 3x as much) to equality than to quality, and obviously the smaller you are, the fewer variables to affect equality. Second, among the true single-payer countries, China ranked best at 30th (wow, 7 whole places ahead of the US) and all the others were way, way behind us. Third, the best performing group by far were the Bismarcks, including France at #1. Fourth, again reflecting the methodological bias against size, among countries with 130 million population or more the US ranked #1, far ahead of single-payer China and Russia. Among countries with 80 million or more it was #2, and among countries with 60 million or more it was #4, and the 3 countries ahead of it at that point (Japan, Germany, France) are all Bismarcks.

(02-09-2020 06:49 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-09-2020 05:14 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Sanders is a European socialists idea men like Norway, Sweden and the likes.

Not at all. Norway and Sweden are capitalist societies with a safety net. They do not have the massive redistribution of income and wealth that Bernie and Fauxcohontas, among others, propose. Bernie's redistribution schemses clearly put him on the socialist/communist side of the divide. Fauxcohontas's are more fascist.

Quote:They are first in health care with healthy citizens and have something similar to Medicare For All. If we want to be first? We should look to those countries.

No, they aren't. Not close. No serious study has ever ranked them first. The countries that have ranked first in major studies are France and Holland. They are both Bismarck universal private care/insurance countries. The Bismarcks as a group consistently rank higher than the single-provider countries (Sweden, Norway, UK), which in turn consistently rank higher than the single-payer countries (Canada, Russia, China).

Remember the 2000 WHO study where the USA where the USA ranked 37th? Let's dive a little deeper into that. First, there were a number of tiny countries (Andorra, San Marino, Monaco, others) at the top. Why? Because the study gave far more weight (about 3x as much) to equality than to quality, and obviously the smaller you are, the fewer variables to affect equality. Second, among the true single-payer countries, China ranked best at 30th (wow, 7 whole places ahead of the US) and all the others were worse. Third, the best performing group by far were the Bismarcks, including France at #1. Fourth, again reflecting the methodological bias against size, among countries with 130 million population or more the US ranked #1, far ahead of single-payer China and Russia. Among countries with 80 million or more it was #2, and among countries with 60 million or more it was #4, and the 3 countries ahead of it at that point (Japan, Germany, France) are all Bismarcks.

Excellent info. +3

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

It always amazes me that folks seem to think it's logical to compare small, homogenous, countries to the USA.

(02-09-2020 05:41 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(02-09-2020 05:14 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Sanders is a European socialists idea men like Norway, Sweden and the likes. They are first in health care with healthy citizens and have something similar to Medicare For All. If we want to be first? We should look to those countries.

Why not just move to those Utopias? Pretty sure we have more people on Medicare here than those two countries combined. And exactly what does "First in healthcare" mean?

He can't. Each and every country that he puts forth as an example of how we run would prohibit his immigration because he cannot financially sustain himself.

this is worth a read, but it's long. Follows onto Owls' points

https://stream.org/5-myths-nordic-social...ican-left/

(02-09-2020 04:46 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

Yes.

(02-09-2020 05:14 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Sanders is a European socialists idea men like Norway, Sweden and the likes. They are first in health care with healthy citizens and have something similar to Medicare For All. If we want to be first? We should look to those countries.

You do realize those countries aren't socialist, right?

(02-10-2020 09:53 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(02-09-2020 05:14 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Sanders is a European socialists idea men like Norway, Sweden and the likes. They are first in health care with healthy citizens and have something similar to Medicare For All. If we want to be first? We should look to those countries.

You do realize those countries aren't socialist, right?

And they aren't first in health care.

But David does appear to have spelled their names correctly.

(02-09-2020 05:14 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Sanders is a European socialists idea men like Norway, Sweden and the likes. They are first in health care with healthy citizens and have something similar to Medicare For All. If we want to be first? We should look to those countries.

Why is the left so hell bent on insurance being the answer? They pay lip service to "cost of goods and services" but that's about it. If they were serious about "healthcare" then they would quit bitching so much on putting everyone on insurance and figure out why the stuff is so damn expensive in the first place.

(02-10-2020 10:01 AM)uofmcamaro Wrote:  

(02-09-2020 05:14 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Sanders is a European socialists idea men like Norway, Sweden and the likes. They are first in health care with healthy citizens and have something similar to Medicare For All. If we want to be first? We should look to those countries.

Why is the left so hell bent on insurance being the answer? They pay lip service to "cost of goods and services" but that's about it. If they were serious about "healthcare" then they would quit bitching so much on putting everyone on insurance and figure out why the stuff is so damn expensive in the first place.

Yep.......and while we know that the laws of supply and demand are a big factor in the cost - and that increasing the supply of health care people/etc. would have the effect of lowering the costs. Those in government are largely bought and paid for by big pharma and the medical establishment.......so the supply side never gets brought up...

Instead, they just want those working to pay for those that don't AND to go down the path of government run (more power) healthcare. It would be worse than we have today, but those getting to pull the levers in government would make a windfall............

.......and here we sit - doing nothing that would lower costs .

(02-10-2020 10:15 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(02-10-2020 10:01 AM)uofmcamaro Wrote:  

(02-09-2020 05:14 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Sanders is a European socialists idea men like Norway, Sweden and the likes. They are first in health care with healthy citizens and have something similar to Medicare For All. If we want to be first? We should look to those countries.

Why is the left so hell bent on insurance being the answer? They pay lip service to "cost of goods and services" but that's about it. If they were serious about "healthcare" then they would quit bitching so much on putting everyone on insurance and figure out why the stuff is so damn expensive in the first place.

Yep.......and while we know that the laws of supply and demand are a big factor in the cost - and that increasing the supply of health care people/etc. would have the effect of lowering the costs. Those in government are largely bought and paid for by big pharma and the medical establishment.......so the supply side never gets brought up...

Instead, they just want those working to pay for those that don't AND to go down the path of government run (more power) healthcare. It would be worse than we have today, but those getting to pull the levers in government would make a windfall............

.......and here we sit - doing nothing that would lower costs .

Right! They have to be on payroll!

Take insulin for example. The cost of Humalog in 2001 was $35. In 2015 it is $234. Consumer costs double every 10 years...but in this case??? And it can't be driven by R&D. Insulin hasn't changed a ton in the past 60 years...

We've already seen socialized healthcare.. It was called the Affordable Care Act, AKA Obamacare. And they couldn't get it right.. So therefore no to government ran healthcare.

(02-10-2020 09:57 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-10-2020 09:53 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(02-09-2020 05:14 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Sanders is a European socialists idea men like Norway, Sweden and the likes. They are first in health care with healthy citizens and have something similar to Medicare For All. If we want to be first? We should look to those countries.

You do realize those countries aren't socialist, right?

And they aren't first in health care.

But David does appear to have spelled their names correctly.

He's clearly parroting a MSM talking point. Why he keeps doing it after the truth has been repeatedly explained to him is baffling.

(02-10-2020 10:39 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(02-10-2020 09:57 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-10-2020 09:53 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(02-09-2020 05:14 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Sanders is a European socialists idea men like Norway, Sweden and the likes. They are first in health care with healthy citizens and have something similar to Medicare For All. If we want to be first? We should look to those countries.

You do realize those countries aren't socialist, right?

And they aren't first in health care.

But David does appear to have spelled their names correctly.

He's clearly parroting a MSM talking point. Why he keeps doing it after the truth has been repeatedly explained to him is baffling.

Biden's campaign is tanking fast.

You can't have a showing like that at the Iowa Caucus, and then go to New Hampshire and tell a female asking a question at your rally that she has a "dog face".