If people really think the big dogs are going to allow a "loophole" to be exploited, especially multiple times, they are dreaming. The P5 will not be happy. I also don't believe this ASUN dream is going to amount to anything. I stand by my theory that this is a defensive move. It isn't proactive as one poster claimed. The ASUN is in survival mode. The Big South is thriving and cherry picking great new members. This is a reactive move by the ASUN, and a possible sign of collapse. Someone is dictating that they do this, or teams are on the verge of leaving if things don't improve. Thats my opinion/theory. I would rate the current state of the ASUN as adequate, but delicate. When you have teams playing football across 3 levels (FBS, FCS, and FCS Non Scholarship) you have a problem. Especially when you don't sponsor any of those 3 football levels. They can add one, but that still leaves a problem for the other 2 groups. The claims that Big South football will dissolve seems very silly (they are as stable as they've been in a very long time). The claim that FBS powers will abandon an established name brand conference to join this new conference? Silly. I'll believe it when I see it. I think this 'loophole' attempt will cause a lot of rules to be examined and rewritten. If the P5 really wanted to flex their muscle, they could just refuse to schedule anyone in these loophole conferences across all sports.

(02-29-2020 01:47 PM)MercerFan Wrote:  If people really think the big dogs are going to allow a "loophole" to be exploited, especially multiple times, they are dreaming. The P5 will not be happy. I also don't believe this ASUN dream is going to amount to anything. I stand by my theory that this is a defensive move. It isn't proactive as one poster claimed. The ASUN is in survival mode. The Big South is thriving and cherry picking great new members. This is a reactive move by the ASUN, and a possible sign of collapse. Someone is dictating that they do this, or teams are on the verge of leaving if things don't improve. Thats my opinion/theory. I would rate the current state of the ASUN as adequate, but delicate. When you have teams playing football across 3 levels (FBS, FCS, and FCS Non Scholarship) you have a problem. Especially when you don't sponsor any of those 3 football levels. They can add one, but that still leaves a problem for the other 2 groups. The claims that Big South football with dissolve seems very silly (they are as stable as they've been in a very long time). The claim that FBS powers will abandon an established name brand conference to join this new conference? Silly. I'll believe it when I see it. I think this 'loophole' attempt will cause a lot of rules to be examined and rewritten. If the P5 really wanted to flex their muscle, they could just refuse to schedule anyone in these loophole conferences across all sports.

P5 schools will not like these small colleges like Presbyterian to make the move to D1. They may allow like the whole conference of large public schools like the California schools to move up for the purpose of ease of travel costs for the non-football sports. I could see the P5 dictates who could move up for that purposes as a gateway. A-Sun is a mismatched of large and small schools.

(02-29-2020 01:47 PM)MercerFan Wrote:  If people really think the big dogs are going to allow a "loophole" to be exploited, especially multiple times, they are dreaming.

Especially since there is not actually any loophole in the rules, so it would require a waiver of the rules in order to work. "Not waiving the rules" is a real straightforward thing to accomplish when the P5 are dead set against something happening.

There is no loophole.

They just want to make a single sport conference a regular multisport conference and have AQ status, so the NCAA would have to approve it.

So there is no waiver either, just an approval....

And the P5 schools will not give a crap about them doing this because it does not take away their AQ spot. It will probably take away a possible at large spot from another mid major conference... but they will not take anything away from a P5 school.

Also, the ASUN is not going away, it's fine the way it is, balanced with 5 public and 5 private schools....

(03-01-2020 09:31 AM)lion1983 Wrote:  Also, the ASUN is not going away, it's fine the way it is, balanced with 5 public and 5 private schools....

I don't want the ASUN to go away, I like the ASUN. It's just so strange that at a time where the ASUN seems relatively stable (much more so than in recent history), they would pull a stunt like this. It doesn't seem like something you would propose when you have the imagine of stability. That's why my opinion is that behind the scenes there is instability. I believe there's one school or several schools pulling the ASUN staff in different directions. They're trying to please everyone and in turn may please no one. I'm very interested to see how it unfolds and I hope for the best for the ASUN. I'm a fan and want to see them do well.

Let me ask you one question as a fan of UNA... do you see your school as a Kennesaw State or a Northern Kentucky? Kennesaw State has shown amazing loyalty to the ASUN and I think that's awesome. Northern Kentucky used the ASUN as a stepping stone and bailed immediately after their probation period ended. That's what I would worry about if the ASUN brings up more DII's. You're gonna have some Northern Kentucky's in there looking to jump ship at first opportunity. UNA has a great reputation (and football!), so I could see some offers in the not too distant future.

(03-01-2020 09:31 AM)lion1983 Wrote:  There is no loophole.

They just want to make a single sport conference a regular multisport conference and have AQ status, so the NCAA would have to approve it.

So there is no waiver either, just an approval....

And the P5 schools will not give a crap about them doing this because it does not take away their AQ spot. It will probably take away a possible at large spot from another mid major conference... but they will not take anything away from a P5 school.

Also, the ASUN is not going away, it's fine the way it is, balanced with 5 public and 5 private schools....

A new AQ reduces at large bids. The whole point of the first 4 was because TV and the P5 wanted more at large bids.

The P5 do not want anymore auto bids

(03-01-2020 09:31 AM)lion1983 Wrote:  There is no loophole.

They just want to make a single sport conference a regular multisport conference and have AQ status, so the NCAA would have to approve it.

The autobid status would require a waiver of the continuity rule, that a conference must run a Basketball competition for eight years before it gets the autobid.

Quote: So there is no waiver either, just an approval....

For multi-sport conference that is eligible for an autobid, there certainly is a waiver required.

Quote: And the P5 schools will not give a crap about them doing this because it does not take away their AQ spot. It will probably take away a possible at large spot from another mid major conference... but they will not take anything away from a P5 school.

Most at large spots go to P5 schools, so opening the door to a wave of an expansion of lower tier D1 conferences reorganizing themselves to increase their total number of autobids would indeed be taking spots away from P5 schools.

(03-01-2020 09:31 AM)lion1983 Wrote:  There is no loophole.

They just want to make a single sport conference a regular multisport conference and have AQ status, so the NCAA would have to approve it.

So there is no waiver either, just an approval....

And the P5 schools will not give a crap about them doing this because it does not take away their AQ spot. It will probably take away a possible at large spot from another mid major conference... but they will not take anything away from a P5 school.

You have this SO twisted. The P5 (and Big East and AAC) don't really care about their AQ spots--they're nice to have, but not the point.

They care about the at-large spots. Every new autobid conference takes away an at-large spot. Since 90% of those at-large spots go to the P5 plus Big East plus AAC, they don't like that.

You *could* expand the tournament, but that meets resistance.

The only way this works out even for the big dogs is if the UAC's creation means that some other conference disappears.

How you get a conference higher on the totem pole than the A-Suck to disappear so that the A-Suck can calve off a new conference so that there's someone lower than the A-Suck on the totem pole, I don't know how you expect that to happen.

(03-01-2020 11:51 AM)MercerFan Wrote:  

(03-01-2020 09:31 AM)lion1983 Wrote:  Also, the ASUN is not going away, it's fine the way it is, balanced with 5 public and 5 private schools....

I don't want the ASUN to go away, I like the ASUN. It's just so strange that at a time where the ASUN seems relatively stable (much more so than in recent history), they would pull a stunt like this. It doesn't seem like something you would propose when you have the imagine of stability. That's why my opinion is that behind the scenes there is instability. I believe there's one school or several schools pulling the ASUN staff in different directions. They're trying to please everyone and in turn may please no one. I'm very interested to see how it unfolds and I hope for the best for the ASUN. I'm a fan and want to see them do well.

Let me ask you one question as a fan of UNA... do you see your school as a Kennesaw State or a Northern Kentucky? Kennesaw State has shown amazing loyalty to the ASUN and I think that's awesome. Northern Kentucky used the ASUN as a stepping stone and bailed immediately after their probation period ended. That's what I would worry about if the ASUN brings up more DII's. You're gonna have some Northern Kentucky's in there looking to jump ship at first opportunity. UNA has a great reputation (and football!), so I could see some offers in the not too distant future.

I guess you may remember, in 2011, UNA and NKU (at least what was being told to UNA) was both getting invited to the OVC, both would fit the OVC well. But, at least on UNA side, after all the talk from OVC officials, after they all but officially said UNA and NKU was in, it didnt happen. Oh well. After that, both NKU and UNA was approached by the ASUN, NKU joined, UNA didn't because there was no solution for football. UNA didnt want to leave football as an FCS independent. Then the ASUN and Big South partnership in football happened and it mated UNAs stance easier. UNA joined the ASUN .

I think UNA will stay in the ASUN as long as feasible possible. The main reason is because of issues with the OVC, the only FCS conference that UNA fits. UNA dont trust the OVC leadership.

(03-01-2020 01:12 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  The only way this works out even for the big dogs is if the UAC's creation means that some other conference disappears.

"Shockingly" this is exactly what the new (that is, 2011 to present) continuity rules allow, since you can have ZERO teams who have EVER played each other before, but so long as the conference which they are member of is a conference which has run a D1 basketball competition for eight or more years, that counts as "continuity".

It can be a total shell game, so long as the number of peas in the shell game are not increased.

Because the P5 doesn't care what the lower tier conferences do with their autobids if it just involves shuffling lower tier schools around in pursuit of the same number of autobids. That's how the new continuity rules passed in the first place, when it was necessary to prevent the WAC from going belly-up.

If I was the A-Sun I would have reached out to FAMU, B-C, and the largest D2 in Florida with the offer of a standing invitation. Make the sunshine state your hub and build some stability as the ideal home for FL schools and other southern schools who want/need FL exposure.

(03-01-2020 03:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If I was the A-Sun I would have reached out to FAMU, B-C, and the largest D2 in Florida with the offer of a standing invitation. Make the sunshine state your hub and build some stability as the ideal home for FL schools and other southern schools who want/need FL exposure.

It makes so much sense to do that. Look at the history too. They've called up FGCU and North Florida from the DII ranks. Both are still in the ASUN. Kennesaw is still there too, in the neighboring Georgia. SC Upstate bailed. Northern Kentucky bailed. Belmont bailed. It would make FGCU happy too, as they're on a bit of an island down there.

The ASun should become to Florida what the Big West is to California

(03-01-2020 05:07 PM)solohawks Wrote:  The ASun should become to Florida what the Big West is to California

Stetson
Jacksonville
North Florida
West Florida
Florida Gulf Coast
Florida A&M
Bethune-Cookman

Maybe they can convince University of Tampa to spend the money on a move up. They win D2 national titles in baseball constantly. They don't have football. Perfect ASUN fit if they had the money/desire. They know how to win.

(03-01-2020 05:16 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(03-01-2020 05:07 PM)solohawks Wrote:  The ASun should become to Florida what the Big West is to California

Stetson
Jacksonville
North Florida
West Florida
Florida Gulf Coast
Florida A&M
Bethune-Cookman

Stetson
Jacksonville
North Florida
FGCU
Florida A&M
Bethune-Cookman
West Florida
Florida Tech

Kennesaw State
Valdosta State
West Georgia
Clark Atlanta

North Alabama
Alabama State
Alabama A&M
Tuskegee

Lipscomb
Union
Lincoln Memorial
Bellarmine
Liberty

That would be 21. Split football and non-football.

Bethune-Cookman
Florida A&M
Florida Tech
West Florida
Kennesaw State
Clark Atlanta
West Georgia
Valdosta State
North Alabama
Alabama State
Alabama A&M
Tuskegee

Non-football:
SOUTH:
Stetson
Jacksonville
Tampa
Nova Southwestern
North Florida
FGCU

North:
Lipscomb
Union
Liberty
Lincoln Memorial
Bellarmine
Francis Marion

I could see South Carolina State join the football schools.

Poor ole NJIT goes homeless in your scenarios

FGCU
UNF
UWF
Stetson
Jacksonville
Bethune-Cookman
FAMU
Nova-Southeastern
Kenn St
UNA

I wouldn't mind

NJIT
Liberty**
Bellarmine
Lipscomb
UNA*
KSU*
West Florida*
Valdosta State*
UNF***
JU
Stetson***
FGCU***

**(FBS indy)
*(Big South football)
***(wish would play scholarship fcs ball, would be enough for ASUN to sponsor football)

Had stated a couple years ago the ASUN would take on numerous Colonial schools that wanted FBS and have the NCAA rules work in their favor to split the conference. Was berated as the biggest doofus ever but the now the ASUn is more than doubling. The split is coming in 2023 and lo and behold that is the critical years for FBS approval to get CFB guarantees.

The CAA will lose JMU, Delaware, SBU, Albany, and maybe Towson, UNH and Maine. Youngstown St and EKU will also join. From the south Jacksonville St and Chatannoga. Kennesaw St, UNA. UNF. and FGCU will have the right to join and be FBS at any time. But this board has said my proposals are the stupidest things ever, but it is possible this board doesn't know what it is talking about.
The CFB payment would be a major driver for a split, which is much more than the dance payments, but was wildly criticized and ridiculed for that too

CUSA adds NNSU and UMass and splits east-west.