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MWC if Boise left
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Post: #61
RE: MWC if Boise left
(01-26-2020 01:49 PM)B easy Wrote:  2013 UCF should also count because they were in the American and they were the highest ranked champion in what would become the 'G5' the following year. Additionally, they obviously would have had the access spot even if they didn't have that auto-bid. So since its inception, the American has been represented in a major bowl 5 times. That's AAC 5-2 over all of the 'G4' combined.

My thinking. For example BCS teams:
2006 Louisville 11-1 BE champ, Boise 12-0 WAC champ
2007 WVU 10-2 BE champ, Hawaii 12-0 WAC champ
2008 Cincinnati 11-2 BE champ, Utah 12-0 MWC champ
2009 Cincinnati 12-0 BE champ, TCU 12-0 MWC champ, Boise 13-0 WAC champ
2010 UConn 8-4 BE champ, TCU 12-0 MWC champ
2011 WVU 9-3 BE champ
2012 Louisville 10-2 BE champ, NIU 12-1 MAC champ
01-26-2020 04:15 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: MWC if Boise left
(01-26-2020 04:08 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-26-2020 02:27 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 09:56 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 04:54 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Lamar will replace Texas State in the SBC. Texas State is really an outlier in the SBC.
No one would replace them, at least not right away. 9 teams with an 8 game conference schedule and CCG. No need to replace anyone. Especially with a cellar dweller in FCS.

I am not sure why any conference would want Texas State athletics at this point? We have been an albatross around the Sun Belt's neck since we joined the SBC. We have unlimited potential, but we have underperformed badly.

There are dozens of candidates for an open SBC slot that would come in ahead of Lamar University. The Golden Triangle area, where Lamar is located, has a population of about 400,000. In football, they are coming off a 4-8 season where they averaged 7,173 attendance per game. The football stadium seats 16,000. They started selling beer at football games this season, as well as basketball and baseball, to help attendance.

The Golden Triangle area is not a place you go to spend a vacation. It is hot, humid and there is not a lot to do. The mosquitoes are large and all over the place. The air pollution, because of the oil refineries and chemical plants, is among the worst in the country. There is no reason to consider Lamar.

They have city ordinances in the Golden Triangle that children under 6 can't go out after dark. They are concerned they might be carried off by mosquitos.

Its where I learned to swim underwater (mosquitos don't go underwater).

LOL! The problem with being underwater was the water moccasins...
01-26-2020 04:36 PM
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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Post: #63
RE: MWC if Boise left
(01-26-2020 02:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-26-2020 02:14 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(01-26-2020 12:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-26-2020 03:39 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 10:42 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Would Boise and Hawaii be able to pull off independence like BYU is doing? Hawaii’s got the Hawaii rule and their own bowl going for them. If Boise contracted with ESPN to fill week night and late night time games then I’m sure they’d make sure they got a decent ESPN owned bowl game when eligible, which should be most years.

Hawaii would struggle ... with the expansion to 12 games, the Hawaii rule is not as appealing as it once was.

You can see it in their schedule. They used to have consistently more attractive ooc games.

Our program would probably be unsustainable without the scheduling benefits of MWC membership. Independent isn’t a viable option for UH.

I dont know. You guys do have your own TV deal and you have a special rule for a 13th game and the ability to schedule zero week games. Granted, geography is mofo for Hawaii---but the Rainbow Warriors actually have more tools to work with than many other schools that might consider indy.

I do know. Those tools don’t come close to mitigating the impact of geography because they can’t change biology.

The trip out to Hawaii isn’t too bad — the body recovers pretty quickly from traveling west — but as everyone who lives in the Islands knows, the long 5-10 hour, 3-6 time zone journey back eastward is a killer. A few lucky souls can handle it with no problem, but for most people it takes a couple of days to fully recover from the resulting jet leg. Consequently no coach with a choice in the matter is going to subject his team to that trip in the midst of conference play, unless the team has a bye the following week and can spare an extra day or two off.

That’s a scheduling obstacle no other program in college football has to overcome, and would make independence much tougher for UH than for BYU, Army, NMSU et al. Basically the Warriors would have no home games after October 1st except against other independents (and Notre Dame ain’t coming). UH fans would hate that and support for the program would likely plummet. It’s a scenario I believe our administrators will do almost anything to avoid.
01-26-2020 04:59 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #64
RE: MWC if Boise left
(01-26-2020 04:59 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(01-26-2020 02:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-26-2020 02:14 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(01-26-2020 12:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-26-2020 03:39 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Hawaii would struggle ... with the expansion to 12 games, the Hawaii rule is not as appealing as it once was.

You can see it in their schedule. They used to have consistently more attractive ooc games.

Our program would probably be unsustainable without the scheduling benefits of MWC membership. Independent isn’t a viable option for UH.

I dont know. You guys do have your own TV deal and you have a special rule for a 13th game and the ability to schedule zero week games. Granted, geography is mofo for Hawaii---but the Rainbow Warriors actually have more tools to work with than many other schools that might consider indy.

I do know. Those tools don’t come close to mitigating the impact of geography because they can’t change biology.

The trip out to Hawaii isn’t too bad — the body recovers pretty quickly from traveling west — but as everyone who lives in the Islands knows, the long 5-10 hour, 3-6 time zone journey back eastward is a killer. A few lucky souls can handle it with no problem, but for most people it takes a couple of days to fully recover from the resulting jet leg. Consequently no coach with a choice in the matter is going to subject his team to that trip in the midst of conference play, unless the team has a bye the following week and can spare an extra day or two off.

That’s a scheduling obstacle no other program in college football has to overcome, and would make independence much tougher for UH than for BYU, Army, NMSU et al. Basically the Warriors would have no home games after October 1st except against other independents (and Notre Dame ain’t coming). UH fans would hate that and support for the program would likely plummet. It’s a scenario I believe our administrators will do almost anything to avoid.

lol...Excellent points I must say.
01-26-2020 05:12 PM
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sierrajip Offline
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Post: #65
RE: MWC if Boise left
(01-24-2020 03:08 PM)HawkeyeCoug Wrote:  I think the best strategic move for the AAC would be to take 3 teams: Boise, SDSU, and Air Force. Navy being able to play both San Diego and Air Force as a conference game would be a big win for them. Eliminating competition while locking up good teams with good fanbases would be big for the AAC. Taking BSU would also give AFA and SDSU lots of motivation to move. Similarly, if they could pull away Air Force the other two would also be more likely to move.


It seems to me that the best strategy for G5 conferences are to get the best football teams they can get from anywhere, then have olympic sports in local conferences to lower costs. Getting the 3 MWC teams as football only would be a huge move for the AAC, and set them apart from the rest for years.

ESPiN would have to pay up for that. Breaking up the MWC. If Aresco does not make the money part happen, fire him.
01-26-2020 10:40 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #66
RE: MWC if Boise left
(01-26-2020 10:40 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  
(01-24-2020 03:08 PM)HawkeyeCoug Wrote:  I think the best strategic move for the AAC would be to take 3 teams: Boise, SDSU, and Air Force. ...

ESPiN would have to pay up for that. Breaking up the MWC. If Aresco does not make the money part happen, fire him.

ESPN would have to pay a quite hefty premium over the AAC's media value to "pay up for that", since on anything like the AAC's current contract, there's no reason for SDSU to participate in that move.

Firing Aresco because he didn't get ESPN to do something that makes absolutely no commercial sense from ESPN's perspective would seem to be a bit harsh.
01-27-2020 12:05 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #67
RE: MWC if Boise left
(01-27-2020 12:05 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(01-26-2020 10:40 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  
(01-24-2020 03:08 PM)HawkeyeCoug Wrote:  I think the best strategic move for the AAC would be to take 3 teams: Boise, SDSU, and Air Force. ...

ESPiN would have to pay up for that. Breaking up the MWC. If Aresco does not make the money part happen, fire him.

ESPN would have to pay a quite hefty premium over the AAC's media value to "pay up for that", since on anything like the AAC's current contract, there's no reason for SDSU to participate in that move.

Firing Aresco because he didn't get ESPN to do something that makes absolutely no commercial sense from ESPN's perspective would seem to be a bit harsh.

For a 3 team move (say Boise, Air Force, and SDSU) the increase premium over the current AAC deal would be significant---but not huge. The additional cost would be 14 million a year (one team is already included in the 83 million base price of the AAC deal). Given that ESPN's only west coast late night inventory is less than half of the Pac-12 inventory+ BYU---adding 18 western games for 14 million might be a fairly cheap method for ESPN to grab the best of whats left out west. I dont know if ESPN would go for that--but it would not be all that shocking if they did. The reason Im somewhat skeptical is 15 million is all that FOX paid for the old ESPN package of games that included the Boise games. That said, that may have been a MW choice. Remember, every ESPN rights package purchased since ESPN+ was intorduced has had a ESPN+ component. The MW has been adamant that they do NOT want to be on ESPN+ and bear any production costs. Thus, its possible that the reason FOX won the bid for the Boise package was not price---but was a desire to avoid ESPN+.
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2020 12:01 PM by Attackcoog.)
01-27-2020 11:52 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #68
RE: MWC if Boise left
(01-27-2020 11:52 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  For a 3 team move (say Boise, Air Force, and SDSU) the increase premium over the current AAC deal would be significant---but not huge. The additional cost would be 14 million a year (one team is already included in the 83 million base price of the AAC deal).

I am not talking about paying an additional amount equal to what the current schools are making, I am talking about paying an amount that would generate a per school payment that would be high enough to tempt SDSU to move. The current AAC payment doesn't seem like it would cut it.
01-27-2020 12:21 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: MWC if Boise left
(01-27-2020 12:21 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(01-27-2020 11:52 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  For a 3 team move (say Boise, Air Force, and SDSU) the increase premium over the current AAC deal would be significant---but not huge. The additional cost would be 14 million a year (one team is already included in the 83 million base price of the AAC deal).

I am not talking about paying an additional amount equal to what the current schools are making, I am talking about paying an amount that would generate a per school payment that would be high enough to tempt SDSU to move. The current AAC payment doesn't seem like it would cut it.

San Diego State is not leaving the MWC for the AAC. They are not leaving the MWC for another G5 league. They would leave for a power conference, not another G5. SDSU is currently the top athletic program in the MWC, in the market that Boise State needs to recruit their talent.

Boise State is competing with SDSU for athletic talent in the Southern California market and then they are asking SDSU to pay them for the privilege of continuing that competition. The conference is better with both BSU and SDSU football, but SDSU athletics will be just fine without them.
01-27-2020 12:53 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #70
RE: MWC if Boise left
(01-27-2020 12:53 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(01-27-2020 12:21 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(01-27-2020 11:52 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  For a 3 team move (say Boise, Air Force, and SDSU) the increase premium over the current AAC deal would be significant---but not huge. The additional cost would be 14 million a year (one team is already included in the 83 million base price of the AAC deal).

I am not talking about paying an additional amount equal to what the current schools are making, I am talking about paying an amount that would generate a per school payment that would be high enough to tempt SDSU to move. The current AAC payment doesn't seem like it would cut it.

San Diego State is not leaving the MWC for the AAC. They are not leaving the MWC for another G5 league. They would leave for a power conference, not another G5. SDSU is currently the top athletic program in the MWC, in the market that Boise State needs to recruit their talent.

Boise State is competing with SDSU for athletic talent in the Southern California market and then they are asking SDSU to pay them for the privilege of continuing that competition. The conference is better with both BSU and SDSU football, but SDSU athletics will be just fine without them.

Outside of Boise’s run these 15+ years in football, San Diego St is the better option. Further, Boise football may hit a snag and not recover - then what?
01-27-2020 01:38 PM
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Post: #71
RE: MWC if Boise left
(01-25-2020 04:54 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Lamar will replace Texas State in the SBC. Texas State is really an outlier in the SBC.

03-lmfao
01-27-2020 10:52 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #72
RE: MWC if Boise left
(01-27-2020 10:52 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 04:54 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Lamar will replace Texas State in the SBC. Texas State is really an outlier in the SBC.

03-lmfao
Just now seeing this. That is indescribably awesome. Thanks to both of you.
01-27-2020 11:39 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #73
RE: MWC if Boise left
(01-27-2020 12:53 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(01-27-2020 12:21 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(01-27-2020 11:52 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  For a 3 team move (say Boise, Air Force, and SDSU) the increase premium over the current AAC deal would be significant---but not huge. The additional cost would be 14 million a year (one team is already included in the 83 million base price of the AAC deal).

I am not talking about paying an additional amount equal to what the current schools are making, I am talking about paying an amount that would generate a per school payment that would be high enough to tempt SDSU to move. The current AAC payment doesn't seem like it would cut it.

San Diego State is not leaving the MWC for the AAC.

That's my point ... they are not leaving the MWC for Go5 money .. not even the AAC version of "Go5 money". Talking about ESPN "paying for" SDSU to move is talking about the AAC getting something like "real tweener" money -- that is, maybe half of what a P5 gets, or better.

It's not realistic.
01-28-2020 04:48 AM
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sierrajip Offline
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Post: #74
RE: MWC if Boise left
(01-27-2020 11:52 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-27-2020 12:05 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(01-26-2020 10:40 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  
(01-24-2020 03:08 PM)HawkeyeCoug Wrote:  I think the best strategic move for the AAC would be to take 3 teams: Boise, SDSU, and Air Force. ...

ESPiN would have to pay up for that. Breaking up the MWC. If Aresco does not make the money part happen, fire him.

ESPN would have to pay a quite hefty premium over the AAC's media value to "pay up for that", since on anything like the AAC's current contract, there's no reason for SDSU to participate in that move.

Firing Aresco because he didn't get ESPN to do something that makes absolutely no commercial sense from ESPN's perspective would seem to be a bit harsh.

For a 3 team move (say Boise, Air Force, and SDSU) the increase premium over the current AAC deal would be significant---but not huge. The additional cost would be 14 million a year (one team is already included in the 83 million base price of the AAC deal). Given that ESPN's only west coast late night inventory is less than half of the Pac-12 inventory+ BYU---adding 18 western games for 14 million might be a fairly cheap method for ESPN to grab the best of whats left out west. I dont know if ESPN would go for that--but it would not be all that shocking if they did. The reason Im somewhat skeptical is 15 million is all that FOX paid for the old ESPN package of games that included the Boise games. That said, that may have been a MW choice. Remember, every ESPN rights package purchased since ESPN+ was intorduced has had a ESPN+ component. The MW has been adamant that they do NOT want to be on ESPN+ and bear any production costs. Thus, its possible that the reason FOX won the bid for the Boise package was not price---but was a desire to avoid ESPN+.

Nice well thought out post. I agree. +2
01-28-2020 06:15 AM
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