I didn't see anything on the interwebnet, so apparently Rowe is still employed after another weekend L.

When is the weekly press conference? Tuesday?

The admin must be nursing a Texas sized hangover from the FCS loss and are in hiding until softball season.

(01-20-2020 09:15 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(01-19-2020 04:45 PM)JMU85 Wrote:  Serious question. Why are so many concerned if several players transfer with a coaching change? Do the 4 Juniors transfer and sit out a year to play 1 year? If so, who really cares? The Freshman class may be athletic but not one of them blows me away with their basketball ability. Blow everything up and start new. It has been 20+ years of futility so what is another few years "if" a good hire is made?

I agree.....so what if a few of them leave for perceived greener pastures. The basketball program cannot be held hostage b/c a player or 2 may leave. I mean look at the record, what would we really be losing and who knows how they will be replaced, could be with better players.

I agree and don't care if they all leave. A new coach will have his own vision and style. And its tiring ti hear about this team's "talent." The fact is, if this was a video game and you could visibly see grades and numbers, many of these guys such as Lewis would be a D or possibly an F when it comes to potential. There's no improvement in basketball IQ or situational awareness from when he was a freshman. Coaching plays a significant role in that but let's be clear that none of these guys should consider themselves irreplaceable.

Lewis would be a nice complimentary player on most teams. A good #2 option.

His career shooting percentage has to be bad. He has had good games which gives the illusion that he is a better player than he really is. His lack of consistency and inability to get good looks in the flow of the offense are his undoing. No doubt he is a starter that should be on the court. He is just not the top level player that a Riller is. We need a Riller so that Lewis isn’t asked to be one.

I think some are going overboard being hard on the players. The coach is accountable. It hasn’t worked but that doesn’t mean that they don’t have talent potential and with a change can’t be part of a winning team. The eye test tells me that at times they show limitations but that they have talent and other coaches will feel the same. There are players to work with for the next years. With some fine tuning this group could be good but clearly as a team at this point it isn’t working and it’s likely run its course and things need to change. Good coaches and a change can put these guys in the right spot to succeed. A change can get these guys to dig deeper and get to another level. There is all conference personnel on this roster and in this program.

(01-20-2020 10:43 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  I think some are going overboard being hard on the players. The coach is accountable. It hasn’t worked but that doesn’t mean that they don’t have talent potential and with a change can’t be part of a winning team. The eye test tells me that at times they show limitations but that they have talent and other coaches will feel the same. There are players to work with for the next years. With some fine tuning this group could be good but clearly as a team at this point it isn’t working and it’s likely run its course and things need to change. Good coaches and a change can put these guys in the right spot to succeed. A change can get these guys to dig deeper and get to another level. There is all conference personnel on this roster and in this program.

I agree with your assessment. Of course coaching is part of the problem too. I am just saying that the talent level is not as high as we all previously believed. These guys freeze up in pressure situations. They play loose when down 20 points and often get the final score back to respectability.

Banks, Wilson and Lewis do some nice things. That doesn’t make them great players. I am not being harsh. I have watched them play a lot of games over their three years with us. None of them are go to guys. If Lou had one go to player, these three would be very good in a supporting role.

(01-19-2020 04:45 PM)JMU85 Wrote:  Serious question. Why are so many concerned if several players transfer with a coaching change? Do the 4 Juniors transfer and sit out a year to play 1 year? If so, who really cares? The Freshman class may be athletic but not one of them blows me away with their basketball ability. Blow everything up and start new. It has been 20+ years of futility so what is another few years "if" a good hire is made?

Kids want to play on a team that wins, plays the game well, develops a kid for an opportunity to play pro somewhere. Kids make decisions based on playing for a particular coach but a big factor for the caliber of players we get is JMU is a place that kids can see themselves spending 4 or 5 years of their lives, off the court.

I don't see much difference with transfers between having a losing culture vs. getting a new coach that could offer some light at the end of the tunnel.

The admin needs to start thinking about damage control. I see more than one player leaving if Rowe stays. It should be mandatory that Bourne attends every MBB for the rest of the season, first seat at the scores table next to Coach.

(01-20-2020 10:55 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 10:43 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  I think some are going overboard being hard on the players. The coach is accountable. It hasn’t worked but that doesn’t mean that they don’t have talent potential and with a change can’t be part of a winning team. The eye test tells me that at times they show limitations but that they have talent and other coaches will feel the same. There are players to work with for the next years. With some fine tuning this group could be good but clearly as a team at this point it isn’t working and it’s likely run its course and things need to change. Good coaches and a change can put these guys in the right spot to succeed. A change can get these guys to dig deeper and get to another level. There is all conference personnel on this roster and in this program.

I agree with your assessment. Of course coaching is part of the problem too. I am just saying that the talent level is not as high as we all previously believed. These guys freeze up in pressure situations. They play loose when down 20 points and often get the final score back to respectability.

Banks, Wilson and Lewis do some nice things. That doesn’t make them great players. I am not being harsh. I have watched them play a lot of games over their three years with us. None of them are go to guys. If Lou had one go to player, these three would be very good in a supporting role.

I'm not sure I agree with you Nation. We can see that talent, it may only be 5 or 10 minutes a game but it's certainly there. The problem is that most of our roster plays like Freshmen, the upperclassmen haven't developed from previous seasons. The jump from HS/AAU to college is huge, coaches earn their money by transitioning the athletes to the "speed" of the D1 game. Christmas is a perfect example, to me I see very little change in his game compared to November. He's a go to kind of player but it's not automatic, coaches need to develop him into an impact player.

(01-20-2020 11:26 AM)RamDawg Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 10:55 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 10:43 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  I think some are going overboard being hard on the players. The coach is accountable. It hasn’t worked but that doesn’t mean that they don’t have talent potential and with a change can’t be part of a winning team. The eye test tells me that at times they show limitations but that they have talent and other coaches will feel the same. There are players to work with for the next years. With some fine tuning this group could be good but clearly as a team at this point it isn’t working and it’s likely run its course and things need to change. Good coaches and a change can put these guys in the right spot to succeed. A change can get these guys to dig deeper and get to another level. There is all conference personnel on this roster and in this program.

I agree with your assessment. Of course coaching is part of the problem too. I am just saying that the talent level is not as high as we all previously believed. These guys freeze up in pressure situations. They play loose when down 20 points and often get the final score back to respectability.

Banks, Wilson and Lewis do some nice things. That doesn’t make them great players. I am not being harsh. I have watched them play a lot of games over their three years with us. None of them are go to guys. If Lou had one go to player, these three would be very good in a supporting role.

I'm not sure I agree with you Nation. We can see that talent, it may only be 5 or 10 minutes a game but it's certainly there. The problem is that most of our roster plays like Freshmen, the upperclassmen haven't developed from previous seasons. The jump from HS/AAU to college is huge, coaches earn their money by transitioning the athletes to the "speed" of the D1 game. Christmas is a perfect example, to me I see very little change in his game compared to November. He's a go to kind of player but it's not automatic, coaches need to develop him into an impact player.

I really want to blame the players, but I think it comes down to coaching/teaching these players. There is talent, but the talent has not been groomed by this staff.
There's a big reason I blame the staff... they are ALL inconsistent. It's not like there's just one guy.
Also this staff hasn't done what is needed to make leaders out of these guys. Rowe has admitted that this team has nobody stepping up to take a leadership role. Rowe is ultimately responsible for that. If he doesn't have a leader on this team, then he needs to bring somebody in who is a leader. The problem is he is so stubborn to do things the way he feels is the "right way", it will ultimately cost him his job.
But there's more to it than that. I don't think the upperclassmen have improved that much from year to year. While the players are responsible, a lot of that comes from the coaches. There's also the accountability of which there isn't any. What happens when someone makes a mistake or a lot of them? Nothing. How do you expect a guy to stop screwing up when there are no consequences?

Did our pre-Houston team not have talent. Not an apples to apples comparison but good coaching matters and given the right coach, it could happen fast.

Sent from my FRD-L14 using CSNbbs mobile app

(01-20-2020 12:57 PM)dukes5 Wrote:  Did our pre-Houston team not have talent. Not an apples to apples comparison but good coaching matters and given the right coach, it could happen fast.

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I agree with that statement. I think it definitely shows how coaching can make good players look bad.
Its incredibly possible that a new coach could come in and make these players much better.

Football has been the example of how to hire a coach. You bring in a guy with success as a head coach. We need more than just a good assistant. We can't afford to take a chance on an assistant coach.
This program needs a guy that knows how to be a coach from Day 1 and knows what it takes to be successful... because he's done it before.

You'll have some regulars on here that will say it can take 7 or 8 years for a coach to turn things around.

I will say they can do it in a year if there is talent, and a couple years with missing talent.

Lefty had JMU humming in two years. Matt made a huge change his first year.

As has been noted on here, there is a lot of talent on this team.

The key is to be decisive and find a coach quickly that can retain the talent much like Cig did.

Also - I'm sure many of this year's current players are excited about the new arena, so that would benefit the new coach retention wise.......

I agree with Shady/Jackson + Dukester... IF we made a splash or even decent hire, I can't see many of the current roster looking to jump ship... player excitement regarding the new arena is at an all-time high - couple that with the promise of a new, PROVEN, coach looking to turn things around... why would they leave when they've sat through basement-dwelling hell the past couple of years?

In my mind, this is the only year we WOULDN'T experience player attrition with a coaching change, in new digs alone.

(01-20-2020 01:22 PM)Dukester Wrote:  You'll have some regulars on here that will say it can take 7 or 8 years for a coach to turn things around.

I will say they can do it in a year if there is talent, and a couple years with missing talent.

Lefty had JMU humming in two years. Matt made a huge change his first year.

As has been noted on here, there is a lot of talent on this team.

The key is to be decisive and find a coach quickly that can retain the talent much like Cig did.

Also - I'm sure many of this year's current players are excited about the new arena, so that would benefit the new coach retention wise.......

Agreed- announce the new hire seconds after our ousting in the Keener Round on Mar. 7th. I jest, because we seem to be the only state school in the Commonwealth that follows the job posting "rule" for a major sport coaching hire. But I really do hope our decision makers will be far into their search by seasons end.

(01-20-2020 01:56 PM)olddawg Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 01:22 PM)Dukester Wrote:  You'll have some regulars on here that will say it can take 7 or 8 years for a coach to turn things around.

I will say they can do it in a year if there is talent, and a couple years with missing talent.

Lefty had JMU humming in two years. Matt made a huge change his first year.

As has been noted on here, there is a lot of talent on this team.

The key is to be decisive and find a coach quickly that can retain the talent much like Cig did.

Also - I'm sure many of this year's current players are excited about the new arena, so that would benefit the new coach retention wise.......

Agreed- announce the new hire seconds after our ousting in the Keener Round on Mar. 7th. I jest, because we seem to be the only state school in the Commonwealth that follows the job posting "rule" for a major sport coaching hire. But I really do hope our decision makers will be far into their search by seasons end.

I am 100% in agreement with your assessment that JMU seems to be the only VA State School that either is required too or chooses to follow job posting rules for state job. As such and in the midst of the current streak of lack-luster play......I would fully support firing Rowe now (a change in my stance based on continued play and need get ahead of the coach search game)....to facilitate an open and publicized vacancy. Beat the bushes JMU needs a new coach.

(01-20-2020 01:33 PM)JMUrcc06 Wrote:  I agree with Shady/Jackson + Dukester... IF we made a splash or even decent hire, I can't see many of the current roster looking to jump ship... player excitement regarding the new arena is at an all-time high - couple that with the promise of a new, PROVEN, coach looking to turn things around... why would they leave when they've sat through basement-dwelling hell the past couple of years?

In my mind, this is the only year we WOULDN'T experience player attrition with a coaching change, in new digs alone.

I definitely agree with this. If this were to happen in year 2 I think there would be more players jumping ship than if the move were to be made this year.
Say what you want about Rowe, but I have a feeling if he were to get fired I think he would do what he could to convince the players there to stay even if he wasn't their coach. If Rowe loves JMU as much as he says he certainly wouldn't want to do anything to make things tougher on the program even if he was fired.

(01-19-2020 02:34 PM)Dukes84 Wrote:  Here are my thoughts for what it's worth:



5. I think the other factor that's not mentioned enough is that other teams play harder than JMU. They want it more. We're too laid back and passive. It's during those lull periods that games are won and lost. And finally, the team gave up 47 points in the second half, part of a season long pattern of collapse on the defensive end in the second half.

i think this is a huge issue right here.

teams take their cue from the coach. Rowe is a great guy and bleeds purple. But he is "too laid back and passive".

and that's exactly how this team is. Talented, atheltic, wants to win. But plays too laid back and passive and gets eaten alive because of it.

If the winds change and this admin makes a good hire I could care less about which players stay and go. This program needs to be razed to the ground and rebuilt by someone who knows what he's doing. I'd be totally fine with such a coach starting with the towel boy and Duke Dog on the roster. Not like our record would be much different.

But until these goobers write a big check and stay out of the process, we'll continue to under-perform no matter who's on the roster.

(01-20-2020 11:26 AM)RamDawg Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 10:55 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 10:43 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  I think some are going overboard being hard on the players. The coach is accountable. It hasn’t worked but that doesn’t mean that they don’t have talent potential and with a change can’t be part of a winning team. The eye test tells me that at times they show limitations but that they have talent and other coaches will feel the same. There are players to work with for the next years. With some fine tuning this group could be good but clearly as a team at this point it isn’t working and it’s likely run its course and things need to change. Good coaches and a change can put these guys in the right spot to succeed. A change can get these guys to dig deeper and get to another level. There is all conference personnel on this roster and in this program.

I agree with your assessment. Of course coaching is part of the problem too. I am just saying that the talent level is not as high as we all previously believed. These guys freeze up in pressure situations. They play loose when down 20 points and often get the final score back to respectability.

Banks, Wilson and Lewis do some nice things. That doesn’t make them great players. I am not being harsh. I have watched them play a lot of games over their three years with us. None of them are go to guys. If Lou had one go to player, these three would be very good in a supporting role.

I'm not sure I agree with you Nation. We can see that talent, it may only be 5 or 10 minutes a game but it's certainly there. The problem is that most of our roster plays like Freshmen, the upperclassmen haven't developed from previous seasons. The jump from HS/AAU to college is huge, coaches earn their money by transitioning the athletes to the "speed" of the D1 game. Christmas is a perfect example, to me I see very little change in his game compared to November. He's a go to kind of player but it's not automatic, coaches need to develop him into an impact player.

I agree. The players not only don't get better some of them seem to regress. There's a lot to coach thing in that because Rowe isn't tough on them and hold players accountable. But there is also a responsibility of a player to try to get better and then there is actual potential, meaning they try and don't get better because they actually aren't capable. A quality head coach would bench guys and try alternative lineups if he actually had a system and players didn't or couldn't get it. Not meaning to just pick on Lewis but he is an example of a guy who still plays like a freshman. The situational awareness and the maturity just don't seem to be there. The coaches deserve blame for letting guys that don't listen play. But are they actually teaching then anything? It looks like street ball to me. Poor defense, little passing, bad shots, and certainly very little adjustments.

(01-20-2020 01:56 PM)olddawg Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 01:22 PM)Dukester Wrote:  You'll have some regulars on here that will say it can take 7 or 8 years for a coach to turn things around.

I will say they can do it in a year if there is talent, and a couple years with missing talent.

Lefty had JMU humming in two years. Matt made a huge change his first year.

As has been noted on here, there is a lot of talent on this team.

The key is to be decisive and find a coach quickly that can retain the talent much like Cig did.

Also - I'm sure many of this year's current players are excited about the new arena, so that would benefit the new coach retention wise.......

Agreed- announce the new hire seconds after our ousting in the Keener Round on Mar. 7th. I jest, because we seem to be the only state school in the Commonwealth that follows the job posting "rule" for a major sport coaching hire. But I really do hope our decision makers will be far into their search by seasons end.

Agreed, just consider changing the name to the Bourne Round since he hired and presided over the 2 worst coaches (indicated by record) in JMU basketball history.

You guys talk about this next hiring as if they admin has already fired Rowe. We don't even know if they will even come to that decision.
I'm just saying it isn't impossible to suggest all of this new coach optimism is for nothing. Rowe could easily be coaching this team next season. I still believe there are members of the admin that aren't ready to pull the plug on the Rowe experiment.
Aside from Rowe being awful, there isn't anything coming out from the admin to suggest that they are even considering firing Rowe. I think it's pretty laughable to think that the admin is proactive enough to actually start looking for a replacement. Even a candidate list seems pretty far fetched.
I think Rowe could literally lose every single game left on the schedule and the admin would want to take the time to assess his job. He is not getting fired before the season is over.
However, if that were to happen, I think that would be a HUGE sign that perhaps they are ready to take MBB more seriously. Until then, be prepared to be disappointed.