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Why Two Divisions in MAC Basketball?
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #81
RE: Why Two Divisions in MAC Basketball?
(05-12-2020 06:59 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  
(05-12-2020 06:05 PM)cleveland Wrote:  What if WMU finishes tied for 8th after turning its season around down the stretch, winning 8-of-10, including a road win over the league winner, then loses a tiebreaker to a team that goes 4-6 down the stretch including 3 home losses and two losses overall to the MAC winner?

Would you feel good about that? ... That's the MAC, brother.

Being 100% honest, I wouldn't be upset at the system.

Your scenario means we likely started the MAC slate 0-10, and that's what I'd point to as the culprit.

You actually kinda described our football season last year. We were finding our rhythm, and beat the MAC West and MAC East champions along the way. Then took a dump at a reeling NIU. No MACC game. No one to blame but the players/coaches.

With all due respect .... there's a big difference between FB and BB skeds. Also, you're talking about a one-off with FB Champ, not a 'playoff' of sorts with MAC BB.

As for 0-10, I'd bet more like 2-8 or 3-7 start. (9-seed was 7-11 this year, 8-seed 8-10 tie).

Also, rarely does MAC FB have more than 4 teams worth playing for the FB title, usually just three. Not to mention all those .500 FB teams that go play useless/meaningless December infomercials for ESPN.

Why didn't these ADs/Pres/Commish say only winning MAC FB teams go to Bowl Games? Why didn't they move the MAC FB title game back to a campus site?

Why does BB and all these other sports have to pay a price but FB gets the free pass? Again, those first-round games combined can't cost more than $50,000. It gives the illusion of doing something, while still spending big FB $$$ to go to Boise or the Bahamas not to mention renting out an NFL FB stadium for two days for 10-15,000 people.

IT's a joke.
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2020 07:34 PM by cleveland.)
05-12-2020 07:33 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #82
RE: Why Two Divisions in MAC Basketball?
(05-12-2020 06:49 PM)DICK Wrote:  Coaches are going to hate the 8 team MAC tournament. This is going to put the 4 coaches who don't get their team to Cleveland on the hot seat. It will lead to more coaching changes.

Depends on the team, but hard to see how it differs from being seeded in the bottom four and not making it to Cleveland, so basically the difference are taking the once chance to upset the favored team at home.

Well then, do that upset earlier, get in the top eight, and get off the hot seat.

Also it only REALLY guarantees being in the hot seat for a coach that has been in that position multiple times, or for a coach that is in that position at a school that prioritizes basketball.

So, would I regret the coach at Kent State being on the hot seat if they finish in the bottom four of a cross-conference ladder? If they were taking over the program after it being on the skids, I don't think they would be, and otherwise, if they are, they should be.
05-12-2020 09:16 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #83
RE: Why Two Divisions in MAC Basketball?
There hasn’t been an at-large bid since 1999. The conference shouldn’t make decisions on what amounts to Halley’s Comet. Playing each other more is a good thing and makes the league more interesting.

The Big East is moving to 20 games. The A10 is moving to 20 games. The ACC, PAC, and Big Ten are at 20 games. The Mountain West is holding discussions for 20 games. The MAC isn’t missing out on anything.
05-12-2020 11:02 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #84
RE: Why Two Divisions in MAC Basketball?
(05-12-2020 06:05 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(05-12-2020 05:08 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  If Mississippi Valley State or High Point is replaced by another MAC team, I’m okay with that.

An 8 team post-season makes the regular season even more meaningful and important. If WMU finishes 9th (or worse) out of 12 teams, we don’t deserve a shot at the conference crown.

What if WMU finishes tied for 8th after turning its season around down the stretch, winning 8-of-10, including a road win over the league winner, then loses a tiebreaker to a team that goes 4-6 down the stretch including 3 home losses and two losses overall to the MAC winner?

Show us one MAC team that finished 8-2 and didn’t get a top-8 seed.

I’ll up the ante. Show us one team from any conference in the history of college basketball to finish 8-2 and not obtain a top-8 seed.

If you find one, you win the internet.
05-12-2020 11:07 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #85
RE: Why Two Divisions in MAC Basketball?
(05-12-2020 03:44 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  20 MAC games coming and divisions dropped.

Also 8 teams only in post season MAC tournament.

I agree with all this.

https://www.wtol.com/mobile/article/spor...a5a6d8fe3c

04-cheers
05-12-2020 11:38 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #86
RE: Why Two Divisions in MAC Basketball?
(05-12-2020 03:44 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  20 MAC games coming and divisions dropped.

Also 8 teams only in post season MAC tournament.

I agree with all this.

https://www.wtol.com/mobile/article/spor...a5a6d8fe3c

Same. I think anyone with a basic understanding of D1 athletic departments is receptive to this.
05-12-2020 11:40 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #87
RE: Why Two Divisions in MAC Basketball?
(05-12-2020 04:18 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(05-12-2020 03:44 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  20 MAC games coming and divisions dropped.

Also 8 teams only in post season MAC tournament.

I agree with all this.

https://www.wtol.com/mobile/article/spor...a5a6d8fe3c

I agree w/none of it!

Playing 20 MAC games is suicide for a mid-major conference like the MAC. If this was the WCC, where three teams (Gonzaga, St. Mary's, BYU) dominate the league, that's one thing. But MAC history is loaded with MAC BB teams that rise up down the stretch then win the MAC Tournament, but overall sit in the back of the pack.

There is no dominant MAC BB program. Buffalo, Akron, Kent, Eastern Michigan, Miami, Ball State have all had strong runs. But nothing dominant. That's just not MAC basketball.

Buffalo was not dominant? They were 32-4 in 2018-19 and regularly in the Top 25 earning a 6th seed in the tournament.

It was no overachievement either. That team had AAC level basketball talent on it. Some of it of course was due to transfers but the sky is now possible for MAC basketball teams in a way it wasn't before since it doesn't require sitting out a year.
05-12-2020 11:46 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #88
RE: Why Two Divisions in MAC Basketball?
(05-12-2020 11:02 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  There hasn’t been an at-large bid since 1999. The conference shouldn’t make decisions on what amounts to Halley’s Comet. Playing each other more is a good thing and makes the league more interesting.

It's not without trade-offs ... which is some of those conferences play 20, not 22 or 24 to complete the round robin.

Indeed, conferences where a MAC school would be looking for a buy game or conferences where a MAC school would be looking for a H/H contract being at 20 help decide what the supply of those games will be ... going to 20 lines the MAC OOC games with the average supply available from other conferences.
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2020 11:57 PM by BruceMcF.)
05-12-2020 11:52 PM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #89
RE: Why Two Divisions in MAC Basketball?
(05-12-2020 11:46 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-12-2020 04:18 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(05-12-2020 03:44 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  20 MAC games coming and divisions dropped.

Also 8 teams only in post season MAC tournament.

I agree with all this.

https://www.wtol.com/mobile/article/spor...a5a6d8fe3c

I agree w/none of it!

Playing 20 MAC games is suicide for a mid-major conference like the MAC. If this was the WCC, where three teams (Gonzaga, St. Mary's, BYU) dominate the league, that's one thing. But MAC history is loaded with MAC BB teams that rise up down the stretch then win the MAC Tournament, but overall sit in the back of the pack.

There is no dominant MAC BB program. Buffalo, Akron, Kent, Eastern Michigan, Miami, Ball State have all had strong runs. But nothing dominant. That's just not MAC basketball.

Buffalo was not dominant? They were 32-4 in 2018-19 and regularly in the Top 25 earning a 6th seed in the tournament.

It was no overachievement either. That team had AAC level basketball talent on it. Some of it of course was due to transfers but the sky is now possible for MAC basketball teams in a way it wasn't before since it doesn't require sitting out a year.

PERHAPS I SHOULD DEFINE DOMINANT - In my mind that's 8-10-plus years of winning the regular season and/or conference tournament and advancing to the NCAA TOURNAMENT on a consistent basis.

Gonzaga is dominant. VCU, Dayton, Wichita State (Mo-Valley edition) are in the conversation. Several MAC programs have put together very strong teams with 2-3-4-year runs, but no MAC program has had anything beyond that in the history of the league. The MAC's strength is its weakness, too balanced.
05-13-2020 07:22 AM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #90
RE: Why Two Divisions in MAC Basketball?
Akron and Kent had decade long runs IMO.

Buffalo's run was impressive because it was with high level talent. Its a glimpse of what the future could be.
05-13-2020 07:25 AM
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Motown Bronco Offline
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Post: #91
RE: Why Two Divisions in MAC Basketball?
Speaking personally, I'll find February basketball more fun with the number of conference post-season seeds scaled back. Kind of like NHL, NBA, etc., there will be a lot of scenarios and jockeying around to see who gets in as that 8th seed. There will be a few exciting "win or get bounced off the bubble" games during those last couple weeks.
05-13-2020 08:38 AM
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kreed5120 Offline
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Post: #92
RE: Why Two Divisions in MAC Basketball?
I'm actually glad to see the conference schedule expanded to 20. I'd gladly sacrifice 2 home games against MEAC/SWAC/NAIA competition for a 1 home game against Toledo or Ball State
(This post was last modified: 05-13-2020 09:20 AM by kreed5120.)
05-13-2020 09:19 AM
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BullBoy Offline
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Post: #93
RE: Why Two Divisions in MAC Basketball?
I wonder for scheduling would it be cost effective to try and go with a travel partner system and play Thursday/Saturday or Friday/Sunday. For example would there be a big difference in savings if Buffalo played Bowling Green on the road on Thursday night and Toledo on the road on Saturday night instead of two separate trips for say a Tuesday road game and a Saturday road game.
05-13-2020 09:24 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #94
RE: Why Two Divisions in MAC Basketball?
I don't think there are enough "natural travel partners" for the MAC to do travel partner scheduling across the board, but I think after the H/or/A and H/A set-up is determined, a school that wants to request specific pairs of away games be consecutive dates for a travel pair ought to be accommodated. Toledo/BG and Akron/Kent are obvious candidates ... providing a school is going to be scheduled to travel to both pairs.

If Buffalo gets passports, EMU is not an unreasonable bus trip, but they still might like to travel pair WMU/CMU, even though it would be a bus ride from one hotel to another in an off day in between rather than a classic travel pair going to both games from the same hotel.
05-13-2020 08:51 PM
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