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Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double their tv $?
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Post: #61
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(01-15-2020 03:18 AM)deb025 Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 10:23 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 09:30 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 07:27 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 06:00 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  This may sound harsh toward the MAC but this has to be a factor for Marshall staying in C-USA.

If a league is not P5, it needs as many of the following elements to be in place for as many of its members as possible:

* nationally relevant football programs (or at least some with history)

* nationally relevant men's basketball programs (or at least some with history)

* elite academic institutions

* locations in big cities or cool college towns

To a lesser extent:

* nationally relevant programs in baseball (or at least some with history)

* nationally relevant programs in women's hoops (or at least some with history)

C-USA has some of the elements. Rice is elite academically and has great baseball. UAB, UTEP, Charlotte and Western Kentucky have had strong runs in men's hoops. LaTech has been a women's hoops power. The two Florida schools are emerging as academic players. USM has strong baseball. Marshall has enjoyed some great runs in football. Norfolk, Charlotte, Miami, El Paso, Houston, San Antonio and Birmingham are, collectively, well known U.S. cities.

Now compare this to the MAC. Buffalo is strong academically and in decent sized city. Toledo has enjoyed some strong football. Maybe there is a baseball power or another strong academic school. But I'm not sure the MAC offers what C-USA does overally. Now what the MAC DOES offer is history/tradition, stability and a relatively tight geographic footprint. Much to be said for all that.

Still, it simply seems to me (admittedly, I'm biased as an MTSU grad) that C-USA brings so much more to the table than the MAC. As such, Marshall will stay put.

Yes. You're biased.

Miami is one of the original "public ivies." Its arguably a better undergraduate institution than Ohio St. Ohio and Miami were both founded in the early 1800s and are among the 10 oldest public universities in the country. In business programs, NIU, CMU, WMU, Miami and Ohio all do pretty well. I think USA Today may have changed their classifications this year, but MAC did have 7 ranked "national schools" vs. 4 in CUSA and only 1 "regional school" vs. 2 in CUSA.

NIU is just outside Chicago and EMU just outside Detroit. Kent is in the Cleveland suburbs and Akron is just outside. Miami is in the Cincinnati MSA and about midway between Cincinnati and Dayton. Ball St. is just outside the Indianapolis MSA. Those are pretty well known cities. Athens and Oxford are both nice college towns.

MAC hasn't had the basketball runs the CUSA schools have had, but the CUSA hasn't either in the last 30 years. CUSA is much better in baseball. But MAC is better in hockey.

Half the CUSA hasn't been FBS for 15 years continuously. Only Rice, UTEP and USM have been FBS for more than 30 years. Only Buffalo from the MAC has been FBS for less than 30 years. 7 different MAC teams have been ranked in the final AP poll (not counting Marshall), Toledo and Miami on multiple occasions. Miami has two top 10 finishes. Toledo has the 2nd longest win streak since WWI. Only 4 CUSA schools have been ranked-Marshall (2 of 3 times in MAC), WKU once, USM 3 times and Rice (but not since 50s).


I definitely showed some of my bias and ignorance. Great catch with Miami (Ohio). An excellent school.

And this is a strong point you make: 7 different MAC football teams have been ranked in the final AP poll.

As to the locations of the MAC universities, if you're going to include suburbs or towns located near cities for MAC schools, you've got to add Nashville (MTSU) and Dallas (Denton) to the list I gave for C-USA.

I still contend C-USA has a more interesting mix of all the elements I listed earlier. But it's not as wide a gap as I had thought and your points have convinced me.

Both conferences have schools near a lot of major cities.

Louisiana Tech has been FBS/I-A longer than 30 years and has played football since 1901.

I guess 1989-2019 is actually 31 seasons, not the 30 I calculated. We can change it to >31 years if you like. Point remains.

I actually know someone who was part of the student government drive to move Louisiana Tech into I-A.
01-15-2020 12:25 PM
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Post: #62
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double their tv $?
Go big with realignment. Not one team here or there. Make it a Best of the Rest between CUSA, MAC, Sun Belt, Indy. Cut the dead weight from each league, make a league out of what's left and you might have a league that's competitively close to the MWC and AAC with a decent media package.

Call it the Butts in Seats/Name Identity League

Marshall
UAB
Troy
Southern Miss
Toledo
Army
Appalachian State
Ohio
Buffalo
Charlotte
Arkansas State
Tie Breaker Between: Louisiana and Louisiana Tech. Similar attendance and both have state names. LT might have the edge so we can avoid the "We're not Louisiana Lafayette"
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2020 12:56 PM by MUsince96.)
01-15-2020 12:41 PM
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Post: #63
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
The MAC wouldn't even be a FBS conference had it not been for former MAC coaches that had moved on to the Big Ten partitioning the NCAA in 1982 on their behalf for a waiver so they could play them as a 1-A team.
01-15-2020 01:06 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(01-15-2020 01:06 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  The MAC wouldn't even be a FBS conference had it not been for former MAC coaches that had moved on to the Big Ten partitioning the NCAA in 1982 on their behalf for a waiver so they could play them as a 1-A team.

And in that case the Sun Belt would probably never have been created as a 1-A conference either.
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2020 02:51 PM by NIU007.)
01-15-2020 02:51 PM
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Post: #65
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(01-14-2020 06:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 04:41 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 04:38 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 10:44 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  Does Marshall want to play on Tuesday nights? I would guess not.

That's a reason that Sun Belt schools might wish to join CUSA. No T/W.
There's only seven midweek games (2 Wed / 5 Thur) a year for the belt. Nothing like the MAC's schedule.

I think its a mistake for the MAC to allow more than 1 weekday home game per team.

Yep. 03-hissyfit
01-15-2020 04:04 PM
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Post: #66
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(01-11-2020 09:28 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(01-11-2020 09:02 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(01-11-2020 07:54 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  The thing about the MAC is that it is extremely stable, but it's also kind of stagnant. Like ah59396 said, many MAC schools are declining in enrollment, and there are no dominant teams in the league.

I just do not get the resistance to even the idea of NDSU as a football-only plus a take-your-pick of South Dakota State and JMU. All of those schools would strengthen the league. NDSU in particular could provide a top 25 team some years, much the way Marshall did for the MAC 20+ years ago and recent FCS call-up App State has for the Sun Belt.

Pretty sure the resistance comes mostly from NDSU. I don't think they or their fans want to go to the MAC. The MAC division winners went to the New Mexico Bowl and the Lending Tree Bowl, I think NDSU would rather play for FCS titles than that.
Next year the #2 MAC will play in the AZ bowl against a #2/3 MW team.

The MAC upgraded with the Arizona Bowl and the Quick Lane Bowl for this next cycle which makes it a non-starter for any MAC team to leave to go to an inferior bowl situation.

What has helped the MAC the most is the development of the access bowl. The MAC has always pumped out teams worthy of a bigger bowl going back to the 70's but now they get a stage. Miami's 2003 team regulated to the Dollar General Bowl was a travesty. At least they did play Louisville who at that time was a CUSA squad.
01-20-2020 09:56 AM
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Post: #67
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double their tv $?
If the MAC is ever going to expand. they need to keep their foot print small. Going to the Dakotas is too far..

Marshall, WKU, Illinois St, Northern Iowa, Missouri St the best options.
02-04-2020 08:56 AM
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Post: #68
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
If you are going to include FCS teams, JMU is by far the best option.
02-04-2020 10:42 AM
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Post: #69
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-04-2020 10:42 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  If you are going to include FCS teams, JMU is by far the best option.

They need to avoid current FCS teams. And they need good basketball schools.
02-04-2020 10:56 AM
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Post: #70
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-04-2020 10:56 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 10:42 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  If you are going to include FCS teams, JMU is by far the best option.

They need to avoid current FCS teams. And they need good basketball schools.

Why avoid current FCS teams? Options out there like Illinois St and Northern Iowa in the Midwest that are better long term conference members than some current MAC schools.

James Madison obviously a quality program, but not sure if a fit in a midwestern conference.
02-04-2020 12:58 PM
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Post: #71
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double their tv $?
UNI has the right mix of GB/BB that would benefit the MAC if they added. UNI/UMass would be a good combo for the MAC
02-04-2020 01:19 PM
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Post: #72
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double their tv $?
Missouri St’s closest MAC school is 7:20 away. Northern Iowa is within 6 hours of 1 MAC school. You’d save more money admitting NDSU as FB-only than either all-sports. Moreover, there’s no MAC appetite from UNI/MSU.
02-04-2020 01:55 PM
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Post: #73
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-04-2020 01:55 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Missouri St’s closest MAC school is 7:20 away. Northern Iowa is within 6 hours of 1 MAC school. You’d save more money admitting NDSU as FB-only than either all-sports. Moreover, there’s no MAC appetite from UNI/MSU.

It has always seemed like Illinois St is the best option for the MAC because of their geography, but they are pretty tied into the MVC schools because of travel.
02-04-2020 02:08 PM
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Post: #74
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-04-2020 02:08 PM)Illini60940 Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 01:55 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Missouri St’s closest MAC school is 7:20 away. Northern Iowa is within 6 hours of 1 MAC school. You’d save more money admitting NDSU as FB-only than either all-sports. Moreover, there’s no MAC appetite from UNI/MSU.

It has always seemed like Illinois St is the best option for the MAC because of their geography, but they are pretty tied into the MVC schools because of travel.

That would be an interesting one. If ISU wants to be a football school, you go to the MAC and grab FBS exposure. If ISU wants to be a basketball school, you stay in the MVC where all 9 schools (+ Murray) are within 5 hours, the conference tournament is within 2.5 hours, and the War on 74 is one of the best mid-major rivalries. Either one, ISU is in a good situation.
02-04-2020 03:21 PM
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Post: #75
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
Because,,,,, they are from WV.03-nutkick
02-04-2020 04:57 PM
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Post: #76
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-04-2020 12:58 PM)Illini60940 Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 10:56 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 10:42 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  If you are going to include FCS teams, JMU is by far the best option.

They need to avoid current FCS teams. And they need good basketball schools.

Why avoid current FCS teams? Options out there like Illinois St and Northern Iowa in the Midwest that are better long term conference members than some current MAC schools.

James Madison obviously a quality program, but not sure if a fit in a midwestern conference.

They need to raise the conference, not add a team in the bottom third.
02-04-2020 05:02 PM
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Post: #77
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-04-2020 12:58 PM)Illini60940 Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 10:56 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 10:42 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  If you are going to include FCS teams, JMU is by far the best option.

They need to avoid current FCS teams. And they need good basketball schools.

Why avoid current FCS teams? Options out there like Illinois St and Northern Iowa in the Midwest that are better long term conference members than some current MAC schools.

James Madison obviously a quality program, but not sure if a fit in a midwestern conference.

WTF?!
02-04-2020 05:13 PM
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Post: #78
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(01-11-2020 05:49 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  Because Marshall refuses to play home games on Tues/Weds. I'm honestly fine with playing away games during that time but not home games.

At this point it doesn't matter til we get a new coach. He has just sucked the entire life out of our program. Looks like we are stuck with him for one more year though.

Go Herd and #FireDoc

78 wins in 10 years... 7 bowls...winning 6 in a row... Doc Holliday has done a good job... I don't think u can say he has sucked the life out of the program.
02-04-2020 05:36 PM
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Post: #79
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
It may just be me but I think a conference with a footprint like this is a large enough one for a D1 conference.

Buffalo
Cleveland
Detroit
Cincinnati
Indianapolis
Chicago

Why does the MAC have to expand out of the Great Lakes?

What the MAC needs is to step up to an MWC type TV deal and get out of the Midweek games.
02-04-2020 08:43 PM
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Post: #80
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-04-2020 01:19 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  UNI has the right mix of GB/BB that would benefit the MAC if they added. UNI/UMass would be a good combo for the MAC

Northern Iowa doesn't bring a city or any recruiting base.

The last time the MAC made a conscious attempt at expanding out of the footprint was in 2005 with Temple. Temple was a former BCS conference member and brought a large Philadelphia TV market for the MAC's TV package. The MAC had just lost Marshall and was desperate to get something going with TV.

Temple didn't become a full FB member until 2007. The MAC hired a new commissioner in 2009 who identified UMass as a 14th. Then Temple leaves to amazingly rejoin the BE. UMass was given a chance to stay if they committed to all sports but they didn't.

Time has proven that it was a bad decision by UMass to lose out on the TV money as an independent.
02-04-2020 09:25 PM
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