Academically West Virginia would be a huge outlier in the ACC. There are three academic microscopes so to speak - ARWU type rankings that recognize the role of graduate research and rank accordingly. Ranking systems for all universities keyed toward undergraduate admissions statistics are another type. Then there are rankings that leave out private universities because they are difficult to compare. Here's one - https://www.niche.com/about/methodology/...versities/

ACC public schools range from a high of UVa at 3 and a low of FSU at 28. Then a huge leap to Louisville at 101.
For comparison the Big 10 public schools range from Michigan at number 1 to Indiana at 39, then a huge leap to Nebraska at 59.

The bottom 6 of the P-5 schools are Tennessee at 87, Oregon State at 89, Kentucky at 90, West Virginia at 94, LSU at 95, and Louisville at 101.

The Appalachian nexus of Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia, and Louisville is not by chance. Admissions into West Va are almost non-competitive for in state students and WVa was not set up to be exclusive.

Opposition to West Va is built on three main issues:

1. The academic mission difference between WVa and UVa, Duke, WF, GT, etc., is huge.
2. The location's weather and fan behavior - Morgantown gets real winter weather and that's not something 8 schools south of Virginia really like. Their fans have done some really ugly things over the years and personally I put them in the general orbit of MD and Philadelphia fans.
3. West Va suffers from the duplication of a market coverage niche that is already taken care of by VT, UVa, Pitt, and Louisville.

West Va is just not going to be the ACC's 16th or 17th school as longs as UVa, Duke, GT, and WF have a vote. However, I can see West Va getting into the ACC as an 18th, but only as part of a deal that addresses landing spots for Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas

(01-10-2020 07:53 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Academically West Virginia would be a huge outlier in the ACC. There are three academic microscopes so to speak - ARWU type rankings that recognize the role of graduate research and rank accordingly. Ranking systems for all universities keyed toward undergraduate admissions statistics are another type. Then there are rankings that leave out private universities because they are difficult to compare. Here's one - https://www.niche.com/about/methodology/...versities/

ACC public schools range from a high of UVa at 3 and a low of FSU at 28. Then a huge leap to Louisville at 101.
For comparison the Big 10 public schools range from Michigan at number 1 to Indiana at 39, then a huge leap to Nebraska at 59.

The bottom 6 of the P-5 schools are Tennessee at 87, Oregon State at 89, Kentucky at 90, West Virginia at 94, LSU at 95, and Louisville at 101.

The Appalachian nexus of Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia, and Louisville is not by chance. Admissions into West Va are almost non-competitive for in state students and WVa was not set up to be exclusive.

Opposition to West Va is built on three main issues:

1. The academic mission difference between WVa and UVa, Duke, WF, GT, etc., is huge.
2. The location's weather and fan behavior - Morgantown gets real winter weather and that's not something 8 schools south of Virginia really like. Their fans have done some really ugly things over the years and personally I put them in the general orbit of MD and Philadelphia fans.
3. West Va suffers from the duplication of a market coverage niche that is already taken care of by VT, UVa, Pitt, and Louisville.

West Va is just not going to be the ACC's 16th or 17th school as longs as UVa, Duke, GT, and WF have a vote. However, I can see West Va getting into the ACC as an 18th, but only as part of a deal that addresses landing spots for Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas

FSU can't be the 'low' at 28 if Louisville is 101 :)

(01-10-2020 04:07 PM)XLance Wrote:  If I were in charge of the B1G, I would pry Boston College away from the ACC and take West Virginia too!
They would completely own the northeast.
Boston would give the B1G the entire northeast corridor from Boston to DC, and West Virginia would be the "bad guy" school everybody could hate.
That is a population of about 60,000,000 to work with.

IMHO, if I was the B1G, I would push for a southern expansion to feed recruiting for football AND expand TV territory.

They have the money, what the lack is the best territory for football success. For them to compete with the SEC long term, they need that.

(01-10-2020 10:31 PM)nole Wrote:  

(01-10-2020 07:53 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Academically West Virginia would be a huge outlier in the ACC. There are three academic microscopes so to speak - ARWU type rankings that recognize the role of graduate research and rank accordingly. Ranking systems for all universities keyed toward undergraduate admissions statistics are another type. Then there are rankings that leave out private universities because they are difficult to compare. Here's one - https://www.niche.com/about/methodology/...versities/

ACC public schools range from a high of UVa at 3 and a low of FSU at 28. Then a huge leap to Louisville at 101.
For comparison the Big 10 public schools range from Michigan at number 1 to Indiana at 39, then a huge leap to Nebraska at 59.

The bottom 6 of the P-5 schools are Tennessee at 87, Oregon State at 89, Kentucky at 90, West Virginia at 94, LSU at 95, and Louisville at 101.

The Appalachian nexus of Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia, and Louisville is not by chance. Admissions into West Va are almost non-competitive for in state students and WVa was not set up to be exclusive.

Opposition to West Va is built on three main issues:

1. The academic mission difference between WVa and UVa, Duke, WF, GT, etc., is huge.
2. The location's weather and fan behavior - Morgantown gets real winter weather and that's not something 8 schools south of Virginia really like. Their fans have done some really ugly things over the years and personally I put them in the general orbit of MD and Philadelphia fans.
3. West Va suffers from the duplication of a market coverage niche that is already taken care of by VT, UVa, Pitt, and Louisville.

West Va is just not going to be the ACC's 16th or 17th school as longs as UVa, Duke, GT, and WF have a vote. However, I can see West Va getting into the ACC as an 18th, but only as part of a deal that addresses landing spots for Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas

FSU can't be the 'low' at 28 if Louisville is 101 :)

I didn't crunch the numbers. Many of the metrics are based on "inputs" such as matriculation GPA and SAT/ACT scores. Several factors are at work including demographic erosion in low growth, no growth states, and the relative cheapness of a degree from the South as compared to the Northeast.

I asked a class at VT once for everyone from NJ and Pa to raise their hands and out of 40 kids, 11 raised their hands. 1. The all said it was cheaper even as an out of state student, and 5 of the girls said their parents "liked Blacksburg".

(01-10-2020 05:22 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-10-2020 03:22 PM)TuckerGnat Wrote:  Lots of people talk about how ND is contractually required to join the ACC should they join any football conference. But we need to be reminded of the flip-side of that coin: The ACC is contractually obligated to keep a place open for ND no matter what. This means we add no one unless ND changes its mind about football independence. This is because we're not going to lurch forward with 15 football teams. And expanding to 16 goes beyond a discussion of "who's a money-maker?" since the only experiment in a conference that big in recent history—the old WAC—resulted in that conference's downfall.

So #15 must always be Notre Dame. #16 would probably be "whoever Notre Dame wants." If they want Ball State, then I'm fine with Ball State. If they say Texas and Texas will join, then I'm fine with a 2-time-zone conference with 1 major outlier. If they say WVU, then WVU it is. Navy? fine.

No need to jump in to say that Notre Dame's not interested. This post isn't predicated on ND's interest or lack thereof. It's simply stating the reality that any future expansion of ACC football depends 100% on what ND decides to do. It's basically what the ACC agreed to back in 2013.

No it's not.

No, it is not.

But, there are no other candidates out there (except perhaps Texas) that would make any financial sense for the ACC to add.

The ACC is free to expand with anyone it can without ND.

The money says it can't/won't.

(01-10-2020 10:41 PM)nole Wrote:  

(01-10-2020 04:07 PM)XLance Wrote:  If I were in charge of the B1G, I would pry Boston College away from the ACC and take West Virginia too!
They would completely own the northeast.
Boston would give the B1G the entire northeast corridor from Boston to DC, and West Virginia would be the "bad guy" school everybody could hate.
That is a population of about 60,000,000 to work with.

IMHO, if I was the B1G, I would push for a southern expansion to feed recruiting for football AND expand TV territory.

They have the money, what the lack is the best territory for football success. For them to compete with the SEC long term, they need that.

That's the sales pitch the SEC would actually be alarmed about .... a B1G-ACC merger. It solves the B1G's demography problems and secures in state recruiting access to FL, GA, SC, NC, and VA. The flagship diploma factories pre-existing fan bases make up for the football low ceiling at Wake and Duke and so on.

The trouble is a counter offer from the SEC could be made -- and likely for more money in the overall picture -- for FSU, Miami, CU, GT, VT, NCST, UNC, and UVA. That's enough to effectively lock out the B1G from growing demographies and over the long haul the B1G will suffer a slow bleed out. And I think the counter offer probably is the more attractive one for all listed. No longer having mixed conference rivalry games OOC means you can now cleanly add another conference game to the inventory and eliminate yet another payday FCS game. The overall better balance means you get your football top brands propped up by Wake and Ole Miss and Duke and Miss State instead of Bethune-Cookman. The shoe will be firmly on the other foot in hoops though. Think of the salivation in ticket sales departments and for TV for the following games added to inventory on an annual basis:
Miami-Florida
FSU-Auburn
Auburn-GT
GT-TN
GT-SC
UGA-Clemson
Clemson-TN
VT-TN
UNC-UK
Florida-Clemson

(01-11-2020 02:27 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-10-2020 10:41 PM)nole Wrote:  

(01-10-2020 04:07 PM)XLance Wrote:  If I were in charge of the B1G, I would pry Boston College away from the ACC and take West Virginia too!
They would completely own the northeast.
Boston would give the B1G the entire northeast corridor from Boston to DC, and West Virginia would be the "bad guy" school everybody could hate.
That is a population of about 60,000,000 to work with.

IMHO, if I was the B1G, I would push for a southern expansion to feed recruiting for football AND expand TV territory.

They have the money, what the lack is the best territory for football success. For them to compete with the SEC long term, they need that.

That's the sales pitch the SEC would actually be alarmed about .... a B1G-ACC merger. It solves the B1G's demography problems and secures in state recruiting access to FL, GA, SC, NC, and VA. The flagship diploma factories pre-existing fan bases make up for the football low ceiling at Wake and Duke and so on.

The trouble is a counter offer from the SEC could be made -- and likely for more money in the overall picture -- for FSU, Miami, CU, GT, VT, NCST, UNC, and UVA. That's enough to effectively lock out the B1G from growing demographies and over the long haul the B1G will suffer a slow bleed out. And I think the counter offer probably is the more attractive one for all listed. No longer having mixed conference rivalry games OOC means you can now cleanly add another conference game to the inventory and eliminate yet another payday FCS game. The overall better balance means you get your football top brands propped up by Wake and Ole Miss and Duke and Miss State instead of Bethune-Cookman. The shoe will be firmly on the other foot in hoops though. Think of the salivation in ticket sales departments and for TV for the following games added to inventory on an annual basis:
Miami-Florida
FSU-Auburn
Auburn-GT
GT-TN
GT-SC
UGA-Clemson
Clemson-TN
VT-TN
UNC-UK
Florida-Clemson

In this scenario I think NC, GT & Virginia would go to the B1G along with Duke. Perhaps through ND & BC as well. The SEC would get Clemson, FSU, VT & NC St. Would the SEC take 6 to match the B1G & if so who? Would the SEC want 3 Florida schools? I think that they wouldn’t. Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville & Miami would be off to the B12.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would be ok with WVU. Louisville had a nice rivalry with them in Big East days.

But I would want Cincy first. A perfect travel partner with Louisville since they are so close to us. And their recruiting profile would increase with an ACC conference affiliation.

(01-11-2020 04:23 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(01-11-2020 02:27 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-10-2020 10:41 PM)nole Wrote:  

(01-10-2020 04:07 PM)XLance Wrote:  If I were in charge of the B1G, I would pry Boston College away from the ACC and take West Virginia too!
They would completely own the northeast.
Boston would give the B1G the entire northeast corridor from Boston to DC, and West Virginia would be the "bad guy" school everybody could hate.
That is a population of about 60,000,000 to work with.

IMHO, if I was the B1G, I would push for a southern expansion to feed recruiting for football AND expand TV territory.

They have the money, what the lack is the best territory for football success. For them to compete with the SEC long term, they need that.

That's the sales pitch the SEC would actually be alarmed about .... a B1G-ACC merger. It solves the B1G's demography problems and secures in state recruiting access to FL, GA, SC, NC, and VA. The flagship diploma factories pre-existing fan bases make up for the football low ceiling at Wake and Duke and so on.

The trouble is a counter offer from the SEC could be made -- and likely for more money in the overall picture -- for FSU, Miami, CU, GT, VT, NCST, UNC, and UVA. That's enough to effectively lock out the B1G from growing demographies and over the long haul the B1G will suffer a slow bleed out. And I think the counter offer probably is the more attractive one for all listed. No longer having mixed conference rivalry games OOC means you can now cleanly add another conference game to the inventory and eliminate yet another payday FCS game. The overall better balance means you get your football top brands propped up by Wake and Ole Miss and Duke and Miss State instead of Bethune-Cookman. The shoe will be firmly on the other foot in hoops though. Think of the salivation in ticket sales departments and for TV for the following games added to inventory on an annual basis:
Miami-Florida
FSU-Auburn
Auburn-GT
GT-TN
GT-SC
UGA-Clemson
Clemson-TN
VT-TN
UNC-UK
Florida-Clemson

In this scenario I think NC, GT & Virginia would go to the B1G along with Duke. Perhaps through ND & BC as well. The SEC would get Clemson, FSU, VT & NC St. Would the SEC take 6 to match the B1G & if so who? Would the SEC want 3 Florida schools? I think that they wouldn’t. Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville & Miami would be off to the B12.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The B1G has to be willing to take more to make it work. FSU, CU, VT, and GT aren't going to send their football programs into situations where they are lone or near lone outliers in geography. If the B1G is willing to take 8 (FSU, CU, GT, VT, UofL, UNC, UVA, NCST) it works.

(01-11-2020 10:58 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-11-2020 04:23 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(01-11-2020 02:27 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-10-2020 10:41 PM)nole Wrote:  

(01-10-2020 04:07 PM)XLance Wrote:  If I were in charge of the B1G, I would pry Boston College away from the ACC and take West Virginia too!
They would completely own the northeast.
Boston would give the B1G the entire northeast corridor from Boston to DC, and West Virginia would be the "bad guy" school everybody could hate.
That is a population of about 60,000,000 to work with.

IMHO, if I was the B1G, I would push for a southern expansion to feed recruiting for football AND expand TV territory.

They have the money, what the lack is the best territory for football success. For them to compete with the SEC long term, they need that.

That's the sales pitch the SEC would actually be alarmed about .... a B1G-ACC merger. It solves the B1G's demography problems and secures in state recruiting access to FL, GA, SC, NC, and VA. The flagship diploma factories pre-existing fan bases make up for the football low ceiling at Wake and Duke and so on.

The trouble is a counter offer from the SEC could be made -- and likely for more money in the overall picture -- for FSU, Miami, CU, GT, VT, NCST, UNC, and UVA. That's enough to effectively lock out the B1G from growing demographies and over the long haul the B1G will suffer a slow bleed out. And I think the counter offer probably is the more attractive one for all listed. No longer having mixed conference rivalry games OOC means you can now cleanly add another conference game to the inventory and eliminate yet another payday FCS game. The overall better balance means you get your football top brands propped up by Wake and Ole Miss and Duke and Miss State instead of Bethune-Cookman. The shoe will be firmly on the other foot in hoops though. Think of the salivation in ticket sales departments and for TV for the following games added to inventory on an annual basis:
Miami-Florida
FSU-Auburn
Auburn-GT
GT-TN
GT-SC
UGA-Clemson
Clemson-TN
VT-TN
UNC-UK
Florida-Clemson

In this scenario I think NC, GT & Virginia would go to the B1G along with Duke. Perhaps through ND & BC as well. The SEC would get Clemson, FSU, VT & NC St. Would the SEC take 6 to match the B1G & if so who? Would the SEC want 3 Florida schools? I think that they wouldn’t. Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville & Miami would be off to the B12.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The B1G has to be willing to take more to make it work. FSU, CU, VT, and GT aren't going to send their football programs into situations where they are lone or near lone outliers in geography. If the B1G is willing to take 8 (FSU, CU, GT, VT, UofL, UNC, UVA, NCST) it works.

The B1G would be more preferable for Carolina than the SEC.

WV has its negatives but, overall, I think they would help existing teams draw more fans. Would you rather see your team play WV or Georgia State? I think the same applies to TV. However, using the same logic, there are a few teams that would rank above WV.

For the B1G has a problem. They want new teams to buy-in. And it is not cheap. Look at the schools they have recently expanded with. Nebraska - desperate to get out of the Texas conference. Maryland - desperate to get out from under massive debt. Rutgers - desperate. Unless something catastrophic happens to the ACC, those teams are not seriously going to consider the B1G.

(01-11-2020 02:27 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-10-2020 10:41 PM)nole Wrote:  

(01-10-2020 04:07 PM)XLance Wrote:  If I were in charge of the B1G, I would pry Boston College away from the ACC and take West Virginia too!
They would completely own the northeast.
Boston would give the B1G the entire northeast corridor from Boston to DC, and West Virginia would be the "bad guy" school everybody could hate.
That is a population of about 60,000,000 to work with.

IMHO, if I was the B1G, I would push for a southern expansion to feed recruiting for football AND expand TV territory.

They have the money, what the lack is the best territory for football success. For them to compete with the SEC long term, they need that.

That's the sales pitch the SEC would actually be alarmed about .... a B1G-ACC merger. It solves the B1G's demography problems and secures in state recruiting access to FL, GA, SC, NC, and VA. The flagship diploma factories pre-existing fan bases make up for the football low ceiling at Wake and Duke and so on.

The trouble is a counter offer from the SEC could be made -- and likely for more money in the overall picture -- for FSU, Miami, CU, GT, VT, NCST, UNC, and UVA. That's enough to effectively lock out the B1G from growing demographies and over the long haul the B1G will suffer a slow bleed out. And I think the counter offer probably is the more attractive one for all listed. No longer having mixed conference rivalry games OOC means you can now cleanly add another conference game to the inventory and eliminate yet another payday FCS game. The overall better balance means you get your football top brands propped up by Wake and Ole Miss and Duke and Miss State instead of Bethune-Cookman. The shoe will be firmly on the other foot in hoops though. Think of the salivation in ticket sales departments and for TV for the following games added to inventory on an annual basis:
Miami-Florida
FSU-Auburn
Auburn-GT
GT-TN
GT-SC
UGA-Clemson
Clemson-TN
VT-TN
UNC-UK
Florida-Clemson

Yup. Of course, not supper likely, but the ACC needs to find a way to think outside the box and find something like that that puts the ACC in an ACTUAL safe position. not the fake GOR which is just a slow dealth.

If the B1G could be talked into something that gave them southern access and the ACC got competitive $$$....win win.

Or does the ACC sit and wait 5-15 years behind everyone else and just hope things turn out well?

(01-12-2020 05:19 PM)nole Wrote:  Or does the ACC sit and wait 5-15 years behind everyone else and just hope things turn out well?

It doesn’t matter as long as Tarhole Johnny is getting paid, and his son has a job.

(01-11-2020 02:13 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-10-2020 05:22 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-10-2020 03:22 PM)TuckerGnat Wrote:  Lots of people talk about how ND is contractually required to join the ACC should they join any football conference. But we need to be reminded of the flip-side of that coin: The ACC is contractually obligated to keep a place open for ND no matter what. This means we add no one unless ND changes its mind about football independence. This is because we're not going to lurch forward with 15 football teams. And expanding to 16 goes beyond a discussion of "who's a money-maker?" since the only experiment in a conference that big in recent history—the old WAC—resulted in that conference's downfall.

So #15 must always be Notre Dame. #16 would probably be "whoever Notre Dame wants." If they want Ball State, then I'm fine with Ball State. If they say Texas and Texas will join, then I'm fine with a 2-time-zone conference with 1 major outlier. If they say WVU, then WVU it is. Navy? fine.

No need to jump in to say that Notre Dame's not interested. This post isn't predicated on ND's interest or lack thereof. It's simply stating the reality that any future expansion of ACC football depends 100% on what ND decides to do. It's basically what the ACC agreed to back in 2013.

No it's not.

No, it is not.

But, there are no other candidates out there (except perhaps Texas) that would make any financial sense for the ACC to add.

The ACC is free to expand with anyone it can without ND.

The money says it can't/won't.

Says who? This is such an old and worn out talking point.

(01-12-2020 07:58 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  

(01-11-2020 02:13 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-10-2020 05:22 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-10-2020 03:22 PM)TuckerGnat Wrote:  Lots of people talk about how ND is contractually required to join the ACC should they join any football conference. But we need to be reminded of the flip-side of that coin: The ACC is contractually obligated to keep a place open for ND no matter what. This means we add no one unless ND changes its mind about football independence. This is because we're not going to lurch forward with 15 football teams. And expanding to 16 goes beyond a discussion of "who's a money-maker?" since the only experiment in a conference that big in recent history—the old WAC—resulted in that conference's downfall.

So #15 must always be Notre Dame. #16 would probably be "whoever Notre Dame wants." If they want Ball State, then I'm fine with Ball State. If they say Texas and Texas will join, then I'm fine with a 2-time-zone conference with 1 major outlier. If they say WVU, then WVU it is. Navy? fine.

No need to jump in to say that Notre Dame's not interested. This post isn't predicated on ND's interest or lack thereof. It's simply stating the reality that any future expansion of ACC football depends 100% on what ND decides to do. It's basically what the ACC agreed to back in 2013.

No it's not.

No, it is not.

But, there are no other candidates out there (except perhaps Texas) that would make any financial sense for the ACC to add.

The ACC is free to expand with anyone it can without ND.

The money says it can't/won't.

Says who? This is such an old and worn out talking point.

Says math.

(01-12-2020 08:03 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  For the B1G has a problem. They want new teams to buy-in. And it is not cheap. Look at the schools they have recently expanded with. Nebraska - desperate to get out of the Texas conference. Maryland - desperate to get out from under massive debt. Rutgers - desperate. Unless something catastrophic happens to the ACC, those teams are not seriously going to consider the B1G.

The B1G's buy-in is an ownership stake in the B1G Network. Unlike the ACC and SEC, the B1G Network is owned 51% by the conference. Each member owns an actual stake in the network like stock shares. When a new member joins, they are buying shares in the network from the existing members.

They simply reduce your payout until the debt is settled. It is still a formidable expense, but you are receiving something tangible in return. As long as the network has value, you have value.

(01-12-2020 08:05 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 07:58 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  

(01-11-2020 02:13 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-10-2020 05:22 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-10-2020 03:22 PM)TuckerGnat Wrote:  Lots of people talk about how ND is contractually required to join the ACC should they join any football conference. But we need to be reminded of the flip-side of that coin: The ACC is contractually obligated to keep a place open for ND no matter what. This means we add no one unless ND changes its mind about football independence. This is because we're not going to lurch forward with 15 football teams. And expanding to 16 goes beyond a discussion of "who's a money-maker?" since the only experiment in a conference that big in recent history—the old WAC—resulted in that conference's downfall.

So #15 must always be Notre Dame. #16 would probably be "whoever Notre Dame wants." If they want Ball State, then I'm fine with Ball State. If they say Texas and Texas will join, then I'm fine with a 2-time-zone conference with 1 major outlier. If they say WVU, then WVU it is. Navy? fine.

No need to jump in to say that Notre Dame's not interested. This post isn't predicated on ND's interest or lack thereof. It's simply stating the reality that any future expansion of ACC football depends 100% on what ND decides to do. It's basically what the ACC agreed to back in 2013.

No it's not.

No, it is not.

But, there are no other candidates out there (except perhaps Texas) that would make any financial sense for the ACC to add.

The ACC is free to expand with anyone it can without ND.

The money says it can't/won't.

Says who? This is such an old and worn out talking point.

Says math.

The math? Who's math? Yours? Al Gore's fuzzy math?

If it's all about the math, then kick out Wake Forest and add some more "math".

Somebody please show me where the college athletics "math" is tabulated and where the "needle" that shows who moves it is kept. I'd like to take the family there on our next Griswold vacation.

(01-13-2020 03:32 AM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 08:03 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  For the B1G has a problem. They want new teams to buy-in. And it is not cheap. Look at the schools they have recently expanded with. Nebraska - desperate to get out of the Texas conference. Maryland - desperate to get out from under massive debt. Rutgers - desperate. Unless something catastrophic happens to the ACC, those teams are not seriously going to consider the B1G.

The B1G's buy-in is an ownership stake in the B1G Network. Unlike the ACC and SEC, the B1G Network is owned 51% by the conference. Each member owns an actual stake in the network like stock shares. When a new member joins, they are buying shares in the network from the existing members.

They simply reduce your payout until the debt is settled. It is still a formidable expense, but you are receiving something tangible in return. As long as the network has value, you have value.

FOX owns 51% if the B1G network.

(01-13-2020 07:42 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 08:05 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 07:58 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  

(01-11-2020 02:13 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-10-2020 05:22 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  No it's not.

No, it is not.

But, there are no other candidates out there (except perhaps Texas) that would make any financial sense for the ACC to add.

The ACC is free to expand with anyone it can without ND.

The money says it can't/won't.

Says who? This is such an old and worn out talking point.

Says math.

The math? Who's math? Yours? Al Gore's fuzzy math?

If it's all about the math, then kick out Wake Forest and add some more "math".

Somebody please show me where the college athletics "math" is tabulated and where the "needle" that shows who moves it is kept. I'd like to take the family there on our next Griswold vacation.

The 14 full members of the ACC make what, about $30 million a year each from TV payouts ??

(It wants to add schools that will significantly increase that amount)

A candidate for admission, whether ND, Texas or Cincy, would have to:

1) Generate enough in extra TV payments to pay for its own ACC TV share, and

2) Generate enough in extra TV payments to provide each of the other 14 schools with a very significant increase in annual TV payments.


Otherwise, it makes no sense to add that school and dilute the TV payments to the other 14 members.

Math. Just math. Not the snark at the end of your post, just math.

P.S. Wake Forest is not going to be kicked out of the ACC. It just won't add another school without the payola.

I understand adding schools that bring VALUE, but if the BigTen could succeed in taking the 3 schools of Virginia, UNC and Georgia Tech then WHO is out there that brings value???? There are NO teams that do that, but most likely contractual purposes the conference just like the Big12 will have to add to keep the contracts. Yes the Big12 was lucky that their TV contract said they could spread school 11 & 12 amongst their ten schools, and that’s why their payouts look so great per school. I think if the ACC lost a group of schools they would have to go with obvious choices of schools if other schools are not willing to jump ship. So who can we take???