(01-03-2020 11:30 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Appreciate your POV, but are you suggesting that the JMU who you say is unwilling to eat even one year of a coach’s contract (based on Brady’s retention during a Presidential turnover) should have eaten TWO years of a coach’s contract? You’re kinda all over the place.

What they should do and what they will or likely to do are not the same thing. I am not all over the place. Quite honestly when it comes to coaching decisions for basketball, I feel like JMU and Drexel are quite similar in that both wait too long to make the clear decisions. And what they actually do vs what they should do generally don't align.

Also JMU seems to tread very carefully on how it handles coaches who are alums as not to severe the relationship. So I think that plays into this as well. I would not be surprised to see JMU move on and eat the final year, I just dont think it makes sense unless you plan to make a name/splash hire for the purpose of your new building. It is kind of a catch 22. Coach needs to go but you want a smooth transition into your new place unless you can make a splash/name hire. I agree with you guys that he does nothing for your program and you guys know much more about your situation than I do. I was merely giving you my opinion from the outside.

Based on the posted contract, that amount shouldn't deter any move nor effect what gets paid to the next guy.

Correct, one year is no problem for a revenue sport. Can you provide your view on these two questions?

1: Do you think JMU WILL fire Rowe in March if the poor performance continues?
2: If you were JMU’s AD, what would you do going forward in 2020 (not what would you have done last March)?

(01-03-2020 01:46 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Correct, one year is no problem for a revenue sport. Can you provide your view on these two questions?

1: Do you think JMU WILL fire Rowe in March if the poor performance continues?
2: If you were JMU’s AD, what would you do going forward in 2020 (not what would you have done last March)?

1. Yes
2. Be willing to spend @$500K for a men's bball coach. I think JMU should be willing to spend and have very similar contracts for the football and men's bball coaches.

(01-03-2020 01:46 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Correct, one year is no problem for a revenue sport. Can you provide your view on these two questions?

1: Do you think JMU WILL fire Rowe in March if the poor performance continues?
2: If you were JMU’s AD, what would you do going forward in 2020 (not what would you have done last March)?

1. No. It's sickening to even type it, but I truly believe they are all in on Rowe... even if it sinks the program (and it will).
2. Fire Rowe. Hire a coach with head coaching experience with continued years of success as a head coach. I don't care what Division, but I care about head coaching experience with a pedigree for winning. Cannot afford to get it wrong. Offer incredible incentives for success. Even if it breaks the bank, JMU MBB must be a success. The new arena will bring fans there to check it out but if there is no change in the results people won't come back. 2020 is incredibly important to the future of MBB. Get it wrong and fans will be even harder to bring back than before.

(01-03-2020 01:46 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Correct, one year is no problem for a revenue sport. Can you provide your view on these two questions?

1: Do you think JMU WILL fire Rowe in March if the poor performance continues?
2: If you were JMU’s AD, what would you do going forward in 2020 (not what would you have done last March)?

1. Yes
2. Make a statement that shows that you care about MBB by spending 500K or slightly more on an experienced head coach. You had the chance to do it after last season but declined- maybe because 2 years left on the contract.

If the poor performance continues and no change is made, that further solidifies to me the lack of importance of the MBB program to this admin. That would be a strong statement.

Most games have 1,000-1,500 (or less) in the seats, and to think that will significantly improve in the new stadium without some effort and success is foolish.

(01-03-2020 02:05 PM)JMad03 Wrote:  Hire a coach with head coaching experience with continued years of success as a head coach. I don't care what Division, but I care about head coaching experience with a pedigree for winning. Cannot afford to get it wrong. Offer incredible incentives for success. Even if it breaks the bank, JMU MBB must be a success. The new arena will bring fans there to check it out but if there is no change in the results people won't come back. 2020 is incredibly important to the future of MBB. Get it wrong and fans will be even harder to bring back than before.

Here's a potentially useful webpage to bookmark for future reference. It is a collection of mid-major head coaches listed with their annual salaries...

https://www.midmajormadness.com/2019/11/...or-2019-20

I look it over and a guy like John Becker, 51 years old, currently in his 9th season as HC at Vermont, who is also currently 10-3 this season and #73 in the RPI checks off a lot of the boxes we'd be interested in I believe. (just a sample of one for illustrative purposes) The linked database lists him as making $318K and his contract goes thru 2021. His teams have won the America East Conference the last 3 years and the AEC tournament 2 of the last 3 years making it to March Madness. Every Vermont team while head coach has won at least 20 games. See link below for his bio.

Could an offer of $500-600K, the shiny new arena, returning an entire roster pretty much along with a bunch of seniors (read: chance of immediate success exists) legitimize the chances to swipe a guy like him?

Will Bourne and company see the financial revenue streams from a winning program in a modern facility the same way they do in football? I mean, aren't these guys tired of 3 decades of losing to finally get it right?

Guys like Becker are out there.

edit note: here's Becker's wiki bio FWIW... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Becker_(basketball)

9-22, 6-12 vs. 10-23, 7-11
14-18, 7-9 vs. 10-22, 6-12
11-22, 6-12 vs. 14-19, 6-12
15-19, 10-8 (controversial 2yr. extension) vs. TBD Currently 8-6, 1-2
25-10, 14-4 (RS Co-Champs, NIT 1st Round L)
27-8, 15-3 (NCAAT 1st round 4 pt. loss to F4-bound Gonzaga)
29-7, 15-3 (NIT 2nd rd. loss as #1 seed)
TBD, currently 12-3, 2-0

Yeah, I'm out of patience too, but the right side is HCLR's first four years. The left is UNCG's Wes Miller's first seven years. First-time head coach that an AD took a chance on because of deep local roots and doubled down on because the 'cruiting pipeline was showing real signs of development. Only real differences are a) SoCon is a better league at this point and b) Miller took over as interim mid-season the year before the above records and had a nice run of success that probably gave him a little longer runway. But the recruiting seems to be building and all I wonder now is how we would feel about 15-19, 10-8????? All the "bring in an established coach" stuff is great until we realize they have to start over on their own in recruiting (unless you're Brady of course and get your new school sued ha!).

Make your freakin' foul shots.

(01-02-2020 04:29 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  GOAT HCLR gonna have to live up to his moniker - tonight would be a good night to begin.

GOAT HCLR has won 3 of the last 4 games. We're going STREAKING

Not to speculate irresponsibly because I hope it miraculously clicks for this team this year but here’s a name. Bryce Drew. Coaches son/family (check), star player who played pro (check), part of a successful mid major program as player and coach who saw the promise land so to speak in terms of legendary March moments (check), young/relatable (check), by all accounts a good reputation and well thought of (check), has done the big conference thing before and looking to get back into coaching (check).

I’ve never been to Valpo but I imagine that there may be some similarities to Harrisonburg that translate. Drew had a really tough final season at Vanderbilt after his star recruit went down with an injury but by all accounts he got a raw deal and was only given 3 years due to a change in AD. I believe he may still be under contract for big money at Vandy for the next couple. He made high 300s at Valpo.

Would he have interest and would he move the needle? Maybe you get lucky and he stays longer than anticipated even with success much like his Father Homer Drew did at Valpo. At a minimum he generates some buzz and momentum in the new arena.

(01-03-2020 09:30 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  

(01-03-2020 08:29 AM)JMU_Newbill Wrote:  Rowe is back regardless of what he does this year and its unfortunate.

There has never been a more inaccurate statement ever made.

I am a LR fan...

This bit of info came from a reliable source, the B.O.V. was ready to make a coaching change after last season. King stopped a change.

Short of great results, caa play just started, the only real question is how far King is willing to go and how many more chits King has to defend HCLR.

This bit of info came from a reliable source, the B.O.V. was ready to make a coaching change after last season. King stopped a change.
[/quote]

Why would the chief accountant at JMU make personnel decisions for athletic coaches?

(01-03-2020 05:23 PM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  This bit of info came from a reliable source, the B.O.V. was ready to make a coaching change after last season. King stopped a change.

Why would the chief accountant at JMU make personnel decisions for athletic coaches?
[/quote]

Because the decisions have financial impact.

It’s pretty clear to me that Rowe needs to show big signs this season to retain his job. Bourne has to come out and give him an endorsement last off season due to speculation - you don’t have to do that unless there is a reason to. One year off his contract and going into a new arena he has to perform at a high level this year or he’s gone.

(01-03-2020 05:34 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(01-03-2020 05:23 PM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  This bit of info came from a reliable source, the B.O.V. was ready to make a coaching change after last season. King stopped a change.

Why would the chief accountant at JMU make personnel decisions for athletic coaches?

Because the decisions have financial impact.

It’s pretty clear to me that Rowe needs to show big signs this season to retain his job. Bourne has to come out and give him an endorsement last off season due to speculation - you don’t have to do that unless there is a reason to. One year off his contract and going into a new arena he has to perform at a high level this year or he’s gone.
[/quote]

Agreed.

One reason that endorsement came out is because W&M had let go of Shaver earlier in the day, and there was all of this speculation on the boards and local sports radio that Rowe may be gone. Of course W&M has been better than us the last several years.

The endorsement to the JMU nation reached for straws and included a quote from the Hofstra coach of all people for some reason, who was simply talking coach-speak.

Is the pecking order for these decisions

Alger -> King -> Bourne (is he even included?) -> BOV

BOV makes a sound case to get rid of him but is overridden by King and maybe Bourne?

As bad as last season was, is this season any different? Same crappy results.
King is sabotaging MBB.
He is still backing LR and I don't think that changes after this season.
What bothers me is the guy in charge of finances can't see what kind of impact this is having on the attendance at JMU. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that attendance has been going down since Rowe got here, not up.
That isn't going to change next season. This team is still making terrible decisions and he hasn't been able to fix them.
When you try to save money by spending cheap on a coach, you are going to get what you pay for.

(01-03-2020 05:23 PM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  This bit of info came from a reliable source, the B.O.V. was ready to make a coaching change after last season. King stopped a change.

Why would the chief accountant at JMU make personnel decisions for athletic coaches?
[/quote]

Because the chief accountant at JMU makes all the decisions at JMU.

Conservatively:

2,000 fans x $10 x 15 home games = $300,000

Even from a cost accounting perspective you can look at that several ways:

- The opportunity cost has continually been greater than hiring a more experienced/successful coach.

- 20 years of under-performing has cost JMU $6mm in revenue.

- More of the financial burden is placed on students vs fans.

* This doesn't even factor in donations, NCAAT payouts, sponsorships, merchandising, national exposure, etc.

For some reason they're loss averse when it comes to spending thousands on salaries but not millions on facilities- when the success of the facilities is directly dependent on the level of salaries? We have the wrong kind of accountants.

question- is there an equivalent of the alpha dogs for JMU men's basketball? Don't take this the wrong way- I'm not a big swinging guy but I'm just curious. I'd be interested in getting connected with them and seeing what can be done to get us to the next level. Maybe if folks can't contribute monetarily there are other areas where we can add value to further the cause.

(01-03-2020 05:51 PM)jmudukes001 Wrote:  

(01-03-2020 05:34 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(01-03-2020 05:23 PM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  This bit of info came from a reliable source, the B.O.V. was ready to make a coaching change after last season. King stopped a change.

Why would the chief accountant at JMU make personnel decisions for athletic coaches?

Because the decisions have financial impact.

It’s pretty clear to me that Rowe needs to show big signs this season to retain his job. Bourne has to come out and give him an endorsement last off season due to speculation - you don’t have to do that unless there is a reason to. One year off his contract and going into a new arena he has to perform at a high level this year or he’s gone.

Agreed.

One reason that endorsement came out is because W&M had let go of Shaver earlier in the day, and there was all of this speculation on the boards and local sports radio that Rowe may be gone. Of course W&M has been better than us the last several years.

The endorsement to the JMU nation reached for straws and included a quote from the Hofstra coach of all people for some reason, who was simply talking coach-speak.
[/quote]

It scares the crap out of me that people here believe there is still a chance he could turn it around and make a case for keeping his job which would mean a contract extension unless we want to play the lame-duck game again. It puts me in an uncomfortable situation of rooting for the guys to lose, there needs to be no doubt.