(01-04-2020 02:07 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  OK, let's say you hire the best coach. How are you going to keep him when Ole Miss can pay them double? Bama can pay them quadruple?

One day in the not too distant future some SEC nobody like Missouri or Vanderbilt or Ole Miss is going to spend double what Duke or UNC spends on their entire coaching staff. They're just going to write that check because the money bags are being air dropped by Disney on a monthly basis. They'll send in however many bag men are needed to compete with free adderrall and free Jordans. And when the Iron Dukes and the Rams Club look up and wonder why it is their proud blue blooded programs are being outhired and outrecruited by nobodys in a conference that doesn't even care about basketball .... then we'll achieve some progress. Assuming the ACC still exists as constituted presently then.

Regarding not belonging in a P5 conference....



For those that are colorblind, those stands are about 70% Alabama red. Not content having their home field turned into a road game playing Bama ... Duke signed up to get shelled by 5+ touchdowns again in the Benz in front of even more Alabama fans. Maybe Duke thinks it can catch up on being down in revenue by being Alabama's FCS game every year. So far the market demand for Alabama fans watching Duke lose by 50 is pretty strong.

How can you keep a coach when someone else can pay double? You give him a good system for winning. Ole Miss and Arkansas don't have that. All that money and all they've done lately is sniff the SEC title game, much less win it. If you were Dabo or anyone else in the ACC making $3 million a year would you go to Ole Miss for $6 million a year when you might last 3 or 4 years at best, or stay at Clemson where you can coach the rest of your life?

I know some coaches would take the payday now, hard to argue but I wouldn't go to Ole Miss.

At least Duke removed the track around the field. I think them and Kansas were the last to do so in the P5.

In college football, having the best coach doesn’t always matter because there are so many moving parts. This whole doomsday discussion has been had since the 80’s. So long as the players aren’t making millions, it doesn’t matter.

Meh.

Team up with the Big 12 and Pac. Or maybe the Big 12 and AAC, I dunno, whatever. I'm drunk.

Find a league (think NFL), company or investment group that is interested in running a pro collegiate football league. Lease your names, logos and facilities to those peeps.

Now, pulling numbers straight out of lmy drunken ass, 89.6% of the top prep footballers are now attending YOUR schools and joining THAT league, not the SEC, not the B1G. What's more 86% of casual college football fans are now ignoring the SEC1G altogether because they have an inferior product. Eventually, 63.8% of t-shirt fans jump ship and sing your praises as well.

So, though you've divested yourself of football, you've kept your football fans on board, and you've added new fans. And you've quelled the SECB1GG's footyball revenue potential. Now what?

Permanent b'ball domination, that's what! Withdraw from the NCAA and pay you basketball players. Ain't no one watching the NCAA tournament when literally ALL of the best players are in your association and your association includes the likes of Duke, Carolina, UCLA and Kansas. You're golden

I'd watch

(01-04-2020 06:17 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-04-2020 04:31 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  Not terribly worried. We pay our head basketball coach something like $10 million a year. If need be we could pay a football coach more since Duke has a large athletic endowment. Duke already supports more sports than most schools in the SEC.

From my vantage point it looks like Ga.Tech’s problems have been poor coaching hires, the fact that a science and engineering heavy curriculum is unattractive to many prospective student athletes, the fact that Tech alums haven’t been that generous in their donations to the athletic department and the acute SEC envy of some Tech alums. If it turns out that Tech made a good football hire and if Tech can make a good hire to replace Pastner, most, but not all, of these problems will be solved. Alumni money will come rolling in and you’ll quit worrying so much about the SEC. People obsess about TV money when they should be worrying more about contribution money.

Georgia Tech's recent problems, in order of their destructiveness:
1) Mike Bobinski, Former AD
2) Dave Braine(-less), Former AD
3) Wayne Clough, Former President
4) Bud Peterson, Former President
5) The growing TV dollar disparity
6) Extra unnecessary hurdles from The Hill, in part due to the above people
7) Dan Radakovich's "put it all on a credit card" spending spree before leaving (and his mishandling of the NCAA investigation which by himself caused the penalties to get much worse)
8) Being part of the USG which is now wholesale controlled by UGA

GT has the right AD now. And signs point to them having the right President now too ( https://news.gatech.edu/2019/11/04/athle...ts-cabinet ). Josh Pastner currently stands out like a sore thumb as the last remaining hold out from the former dunces. I have very high confidence GT will compete in a high level in football very soon and everywhere else they've made a change has shown immediate and dramatic improval.

Duke's athletic endowment is large in the context of athletic endowments. Athletic endowments however are quite modest in the grand scope of things. UNC's athletic endowment is less than 1/10 their academic endowment. I cannot readily find information on the size of Duke's athletic endowment, but it is widely believed the largely athletic endowment is Stanford. As of 2003, Stanford's athletic endowment was $270m and second place was Notre Dame at $130m. Assuming Stanford's athletic endowment has a generous return of 7% annually that is $18,900,000 added to the till in Palo Alto. Disney just paid each SEC team more than that per year for JUST ONE FOOTBALL GAME a week! So the athletic endowment argument just doesn't get it at this level. TV money makes endowments look vanishingly small over the long haul. You pay possibly the best basketball coach on Earth $10m. Texas A&M paid three times that to change their most recent football staff. Football is 80% of the revenue going forward. And Duke like most of the ACC isn't adjusting well to that reality.

I'm much more receptive to the argument that the ACC is leaving huge sums of money on the table because the NCAA pays for everything with basketball money. If that's the case alright fine: Then let's hear the ACC sharpening their NCAA axe and talking about which conferences have no business in Division 1 and are only there to collect their NCAA checks like welfare queens (Southland, Atlantic Sun, American East ... etc). If you really really really believe in basketball that much and want to change the revenue equations here ... axe the NCAA.

That is one bitter man.

The Rams Club endowment trust is about $250 million. We are in the midst of a campaign to raise the endowment to $500 million.
The endowment is charged with paying the expense of attendance for every Tar Heel scholarship athlete. Unfortunately those expenses have doubled within the last 10 years.

(01-04-2020 02:02 PM)nole Wrote:  When the SEC adds the new TV contract and grows the revenue gap another $20 million per team per year.....gonna get REAL interesting.

Yep.

I hope every single SEC member pours all of that $20 million of additional revenue into basketball. Then the ostriches in this thread will pull their heads out of the sand.

(01-05-2020 11:34 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  I hope every single SEC member pours all of that $20 million of additional revenue into basketball. Then the ostriches in this thread will pull their heads out of the sand.

I’m sure there’s a Walmart in neck of the woods, run in there and git ya a Gamecocks shirt. You’ll be loving Cocks and chanting SEC SEC in no time.

Do that and you won’t stay awake worrying about the big bad SEC’s bank account. I would say if you can’t beat’em join’em, but s hit you’re beat’em and you’re still not happy. WTF...

If you b itch and moan this much while your team is winning I bet you’re a joy to be around when your Tigers lose....

Good luck in the CFP Championship. I’ll be rooting for the Tigers

(01-05-2020 10:38 AM)XLance Wrote:  The Rams Club endowment trust is about $250 million. We are in the midst of a campaign to raise the endowment to $500 million.
The endowment is charged with paying the expense of attendance for every Tar Heel scholarship athlete. Unfortunately those expenses have doubled within the last 10 years.

$500m * 7% optimistic annual return = $35m annually. It's nice to have, but it's no equalizer. It would take your entire endowment just to redo Kenan. What's your time table on getting to $500m?

(01-05-2020 01:29 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-05-2020 10:38 AM)XLance Wrote:  The Rams Club endowment trust is about $250 million. We are in the midst of a campaign to raise the endowment to $500 million.
The endowment is charged with paying the expense of attendance for every Tar Heel scholarship athlete. Unfortunately those expenses have doubled within the last 10 years.

$500m * 7% optimistic annual return = $35m annually. It's nice to have, but it's no equalizer. It would take your entire endowment just to redo Kenan. What's your time table on getting to $500m?

Campaign runs another 2 years.
Endowment money is only used to fund athlete's cost of attendance.
Facilities upgrades are paid for by annual contributions to the Rams Club . 2017-18 contributions were $62.6 million. $30.7 to the endowment, $16.35 for the annual fund and $12.6 million for capital projects.

BTW the Rams Club endowment campaign is being run parallel to a $4Billion endowment campaign for the University.

(01-05-2020 12:05 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(01-05-2020 11:34 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  I hope every single SEC member pours all of that $20 million of additional revenue into basketball. Then the ostriches in this thread will pull their heads out of the sand.

I’m sure there’s a Walmart in neck of the woods, run in there and git ya a Gamecocks shirt. You’ll be loving Cocks and chanting SEC SEC in no time.

Do that and you won’t stay awake worrying about the big bad SEC’s bank account. I would say if you can’t beat’em join’em, but s hit you’re beat’em and you’re still not happy. WTF...

If you b itch and moan this much while your team is winning I bet you’re a joy to be around when your Tigers lose....

Good luck in the CFP Championship. I’ll be rooting for the Tigers

Strange...I thought Louisville was the Cardinals and not the ostriches.

And piss off with your Gamecocks ****. m Just because your second rate school is better off than what it was and you are happy sucking hind tit in the P5 rather than being with your actual athletic and academic peers in the AACk doesn't mean that we should be happy about it.

(01-05-2020 11:34 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-04-2020 02:02 PM)nole Wrote:  When the SEC adds the new TV contract and grows the revenue gap another $20 million per team per year.....gonna get REAL interesting.

Yep.

I hope every single SEC member pours all of that $20 million of additional revenue into basketball. Then the ostriches in this thread will pull their heads out of the sand.

It wouldn’t do them any good. Money matters but culture matters far more. Culture is why Villanova has had far more success in basketball than Texas. You can’t buy fan enthusiasm. No matter how much some SEC school pays its basketball coach it can’t match the atmosphere of Cameron or the Carrier Dome and that matters enormously in recruiting. Ultimately recruiting is the name of the game.

(01-05-2020 01:45 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(01-05-2020 01:29 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-05-2020 10:38 AM)XLance Wrote:  The Rams Club endowment trust is about $250 million. We are in the midst of a campaign to raise the endowment to $500 million.
The endowment is charged with paying the expense of attendance for every Tar Heel scholarship athlete. Unfortunately those expenses have doubled within the last 10 years.

$500m * 7% optimistic annual return = $35m annually. It's nice to have, but it's no equalizer. It would take your entire endowment just to redo Kenan. What's your time table on getting to $500m?

Campaign runs another 2 years.
Endowment money is only used to fund athlete's cost of attendance.
Facilities upgrades are paid for by annual contributions to the Rams Club . 2017-18 contributions were $62.6 million. $30.7 to the endowment, $16.35 for the annual fund and $12.6 million for capital projects.

BTW the Rams Club endowment campaign is being run parallel to a $4Billion endowment campaign for the University.

$60m+/yr is about what is coming in to the GTAA during AI2020. Which looks like it should be completed nearly a year ahead of schedule in the coming days.

The place where UNC has much more flexibility when balance sheets get nasty is that they compete for the Capital One Cup. And that means funding a lot of never-make-a-profit sports to go after points. UNC could simply cut half a dozen programs and instantly put 8 figures on the balance sheet without making even a tiny change in revenue. When faced with making a choice to cut those programs or never again be competitive in football ... Maryland chose instead to go to the Big Ten. Ironically this serves as its own football death sentence for them.

Money never matters to ACC schools until you taking about unequal revenue sharing.

THEN $$$$ is VERY important.....lol (just don't bring up Notre Dame....then they get confused).

(01-05-2020 07:41 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-05-2020 01:45 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(01-05-2020 01:29 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-05-2020 10:38 AM)XLance Wrote:  The Rams Club endowment trust is about $250 million. We are in the midst of a campaign to raise the endowment to $500 million.
The endowment is charged with paying the expense of attendance for every Tar Heel scholarship athlete. Unfortunately those expenses have doubled within the last 10 years.

$500m * 7% optimistic annual return = $35m annually. It's nice to have, but it's no equalizer. It would take your entire endowment just to redo Kenan. What's your time table on getting to $500m?

Campaign runs another 2 years.
Endowment money is only used to fund athlete's cost of attendance.
Facilities upgrades are paid for by annual contributions to the Rams Club . 2017-18 contributions were $62.6 million. $30.7 to the endowment, $16.35 for the annual fund and $12.6 million for capital projects.

BTW the Rams Club endowment campaign is being run parallel to a $4Billion endowment campaign for the University.

$60m+/yr is about what is coming in to the GTAA during AI2020. Which looks like it should be completed nearly a year ahead of schedule in the coming days.

The place where UNC has much more flexibility when balance sheets get nasty is thaftlet they compete for the Capital One Cup. And that means funding a lot of never-make-a-profit sports to go after points. UNC could simply cut half a dozen programs and instantly put 8 figures on the balance sheet without making even a tiny change in revenue. When faced with making a choice to cut those programs or never again be competitive in football ... Maryland chose instead to go to the Big Ten. Ironically this serves as its own football death sentence for them.

Carolina sponsors 28 sports.
An internal athletic department report found that in order to be competitive in the SEC for football, we would have to eliminate at least 7 sports and dedicate all of those funds to football.
When Butch left, his director of player personnel interviewed with Saban for a similar position at Alabama where the job paid 3X what it did in Chapel Hill. Shifting monies away from students and into football office salaries was not a choice the University was willing to make.
Clemson found themselves in a situation several years ago where they were going to have to spend millions of dollars to replace their swimming and diving facility. They chose instead to eventually eliminate all of their swimming and diving programs. To Clemson's credit, they did honor their scholarship commitments for those athletes.
Clemson has started playing Women's softball (title IX replacement) which should actually generate some revenue.
Every school has their own priorities.

(12-28-2019 05:46 PM)Indytarheel Wrote:  

(12-28-2019 10:33 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  So, what are these other schools doing with all that money? Building great teams in other sports? Supporting academic programs? Paying humongous salaries to administrators? Whatever they’re doing seems to have no visible effect. Their athletic programs aren’t more successful. Are we sure those numbers were compiled in the same way? How do we tell how much TV revenue Clemson football received from the ACC? I’ve never seen any breakdown of football versus basketball conference revenue

Why ask the questions? It is the same thing over and over again; yet, it is very interesting they never seem to be able to explain why the shortfall doesn't effect the outcome on the field. They have yet to demonstrate a correlation between success on the field versus TV revenue dollars etc. Hell, prior to Bowden retirement, if I am not mistaken, FSU nor Miami never brought in the cash compared to UF. Yet, FSU and Miami have more success on the football field than UF. Maybe it is something I am missing.

Profit = football revenues minus football expenses. Clemson has lower revenues, but actually spends more on football than any of the other three schools in the playoff. From the article.

Quote:Clemson also reported the highest football expenses in 2018, according to the filings. Tigers coach Dabo Swinney is the highest paid coach in the country, with a 10-year contract worth more than $93 million.

The real question is why the other schools don't match Clemson in spending when they clearly have the money to do so. One reason, I suppose, is that paying another coach more than Dabo would not make that coach a better coach than Dabo.

(01-06-2020 05:46 AM)XLance Wrote:  An internal athletic department report found that in order to be competitive in the SEC for football, we would have to eliminate at least 7 sports and dedicate all of those funds to football.

I would want to see and hear all the details from that report.

(01-05-2020 03:37 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-05-2020 12:05 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(01-05-2020 11:34 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  I hope every single SEC member pours all of that $20 million of additional revenue into basketball. Then the ostriches in this thread will pull their heads out of the sand.

I’m sure there’s a Walmart in neck of the woods, run in there and git ya a Gamecocks shirt. You’ll be loving Cocks and chanting SEC SEC in no time.

Do that and you won’t stay awake worrying about the big bad SEC’s bank account. I would say if you can’t beat’em join’em, but s hit you’re beat’em and you’re still not happy. WTF...

If you b itch and moan this much while your team is winning I bet you’re a joy to be around when your Tigers lose....

Good luck in the CFP Championship. I’ll be rooting for the Tigers

Strange...I thought Louisville was the Cardinals and not the ostriches.

And piss off with your Gamecocks ****. m Just because your second rate school is better off than what it was and you are happy sucking hind tit in the P5 rather than being with your actual athletic and academic peers in the AACk doesn't mean that we should be happy about it.

My second rate school already makes more money than yours and you’ve won how many championships...


You’re a basketball conference’s football b itches and you can’t do anything about it but whine on a message board. Now get out there are get our money. We’ll be rooting for the Tigers...either way we win...lol

(01-05-2020 08:15 PM)nole Wrote:  Money never matters to ACC schools until you taking about unequal revenue sharing.

THEN $$$$ is VERY important.....lol (just don't bring up Notre Dame....then they get confused).

(01-06-2020 05:46 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(01-05-2020 07:41 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-05-2020 01:45 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(01-05-2020 01:29 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-05-2020 10:38 AM)XLance Wrote:  The Rams Club endowment trust is about $250 million. We are in the midst of a campaign to raise the endowment to $500 million.
The endowment is charged with paying the expense of attendance for every Tar Heel scholarship athlete. Unfortunately those expenses have doubled within the last 10 years.

$500m * 7% optimistic annual return = $35m annually. It's nice to have, but it's no equalizer. It would take your entire endowment just to redo Kenan. What's your time table on getting to $500m?

Campaign runs another 2 years.
Endowment money is only used to fund athlete's cost of attendance.
Facilities upgrades are paid for by annual contributions to the Rams Club . 2017-18 contributions were $62.6 million. $30.7 to the endowment, $16.35 for the annual fund and $12.6 million for capital projects.

BTW the Rams Club endowment campaign is being run parallel to a $4Billion endowment campaign for the University.

$60m+/yr is about what is coming in to the GTAA during AI2020. Which looks like it should be completed nearly a year ahead of schedule in the coming days.

The place where UNC has much more flexibility when balance sheets get nasty is thaftlet they compete for the Capital One Cup. And that means funding a lot of never-make-a-profit sports to go after points. UNC could simply cut half a dozen programs and instantly put 8 figures on the balance sheet without making even a tiny change in revenue. When faced with making a choice to cut those programs or never again be competitive in football ... Maryland chose instead to go to the Big Ten. Ironically this serves as its own football death sentence for them.

Carolina sponsors 28 sports.
An internal athletic department report found that in order to be competitive in the SEC for football, we would have to eliminate at least 7 sports and dedicate all of those funds to football.
When Butch left, his director of player personnel interviewed with Saban for a similar position at Alabama where the job paid 3X what it did in Chapel Hill. Shifting monies away from students and into football office salaries was not a choice the University was willing to make.
Clemson found themselves in a situation several years ago where they were going to have to spend millions of dollars to replace their swimming and diving facility. They chose instead to eventually eliminate all of their swimming and diving programs. To Clemson's credit, they did honor their scholarship commitments for those athletes.
Clemson has started playing Women's softball (title IX replacement) which should actually generate some revenue.
Every school has their own priorities.

This is the problem.

Clemson invests in the revenue sport.

Other schools have different 'priorities'.

Should we all be receiving the revenue Clemson prioritizes? Kind of BS for schools to say "I don't care about making revenue, but I demand we all receive it equally".


Clemson should be rewarded. Not forced into the same revenue as schools not invested in football.

(01-06-2020 02:49 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(01-05-2020 08:15 PM)nole Wrote:  Money never matters to ACC schools until you taking about unequal revenue sharing.

THEN $$$$ is VERY important.....lol (just don't bring up Notre Dame....then they get confused).

What is so odd about the Big East refugees is.....they want to escape to the ACC and then make the same mistakes they made in the Big East.

Bizarre. The ACC will die also. Big East part 2 will come. Like living in a state and voting for high taxes, then moving because you can't pay the taxes, and then voting for more high taxes in the place you moved to.

Good luck with that.

(01-06-2020 03:43 PM)nole Wrote:  Clemson invests in the revenue sport.

Other schools have different 'priorities'.

Should we all be receiving the revenue Clemson prioritizes? Kind of BS for schools to say "I don't care about making revenue, but I demand we all receive it equally".

Clemson should be rewarded. Not forced into the same revenue as schools not invested in football.

Nole, you inspired me just now... why not tie your share of each sport's revenue to your share of spending in that sport. In other words, if you spend 1/14th of the total spend by all ACC schools in football then you get exactly 1/14th of the football revenue, but if you spend 1/10th of the total while some other school spends only 1/5th then you should get 1/10th and they should get 1/5th... each school would get the same return on investment. That would be true for basketball, too - so Duke and UNC would get a bigger share of NCAA Tournament money, for example.

It could work...