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cleveland Offline
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Post: #1
Why no respect ...
Here's why. MAC basketball is great against the SWAC and the MEAC, and pretty good against the dregs of the Horizon League ...

But when it comes to having some backbone against comparable mid-majors MAC teams spit the bit.

L - Quinnipiac
L - Cal-Irvine
L - Liberty
L - Wright State
L - Norfolk State (OMG!!!)
L- Army
L - Green Bay
L - UMKC

We could go on,

But you get the picture. Which leads to the question of the day, roughly 10 days before MAC play begins: What MAC team do you trust?

I have no clue, considering right now I'd give a team I thought was going to struggle all season, Ohio U. just as much chance to win 10 MAC games as just about any other team in the league.

Can you say 14-seed.
(This post was last modified: 12-21-2019 06:50 PM by cleveland.)
12-21-2019 06:44 PM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Why no respect ...
(12-21-2019 06:44 PM)cleveland Wrote:  Here's why. MAC basketball is great against the SWAC and the MEAC, and pretty good against the dregs of the Horizon League ...

But when it comes to having some backbone against comparable mid-majors MAC teams spit the bit.

L - Quinnipiac
L - Cal-Irvine
L - Liberty
L - Wright State
L - Norfolk State (OMG!!!)
L- Army
L - Green Bay
L - UMKC

We could go on,

But you get the picture. Which leads to the question of the day, roughly 10 days before MAC play begins: What MAC team do you trust?

I have no clue, considering right now I'd give a team I thought was going to struggle all season, Ohio U. just as much chance to win 10 MAC games as just about any other team in the league.

Can you say 14-seed.

Probably no surprise. This is as rebuilding year for the MAC.
12-21-2019 09:42 PM
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Eagle66 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Why no respect ...
Akron has been pretty consistent. Their only losses are to West Virginia, Louisville, and Liberty (14-0, with a win at Vandy).

The problems is there are no really good wins to offset the bad losses. What’s the best win for a MAC team this year? Harvard? Georgia Tech? Cincinnati?

I think the league will come down to who gets / stays healthy. BG is obviously much better with Turner. Kent was missing their PG when they lost to UCI. I’m sure there’s probably a few other examples I’m missing as well.
12-21-2019 10:23 PM
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Siborg Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Why no respect ...
DePaul was another good win but I agree, too many bad losses. BG was surviving w/o Turner but the bottom fell out this weekend.
12-21-2019 11:05 PM
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Gower1156 Offline
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RE: Why no respect ...
I think these games are cherry picked a little. I follow UB and you mention their loss to Army but not their wins against DePaul and Harvard. I don’t follow the other teams that closely but I am sure you left some other quality wins out.
12-21-2019 11:13 PM
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axeme Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Why no respect ...
Wright St. did beat Miami twice, once in Oxford and again at a neutral site and beat Toledo today at UT, but KSU beat them at the Nutter Center, unless the point was simply to list mid-major losses and not wins. Also, Towson is a decent mid and is better than some of the teams on that list of losses and both UB and KSU beat them.
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2019 12:25 AM by axeme.)
12-22-2019 12:24 AM
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cleveland Offline
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RE: Why no respect ...
(12-22-2019 12:24 AM)axeme Wrote:  Wright St. did beat Miami twice, once in Oxford and again at a neutral site and beat Toledo today at UT, but KSU beat them at the Nutter Center, unless the point was simply to list mid-major losses and not wins. Also, Towson is a decent mid and is better than some of the teams on that list of losses and both UB and KSU beat them.

The point is ... to separate from the mid-major pack, as a conference, you just can't have this many loses to other mids, particularly those hovering w/ .500 records. A loss to Liberty in and of itself is not bad. But a loss to an Atlantic Sun conference team, where Liberty is the only team in the league above .500 is bad ... if that makes sense.

The A-10, the Mtn. West and WCC are all conferences the top half of the MAC can stand toe-to-toe with. But come March those leagues will have 2-3 teams in the MAC Tournament seeded 8-13 or better where a good matchup can lead to an upset. Why, because they lose very few games vs. other mids. Not because they have more power 5 upsets.

The MAC will be a 14-seed, sent west of the Mississippi, against a team it has little chance to upset, because the MAC can't beat Qunnipiac or Army or UMKC.
12-22-2019 05:31 AM
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RocketJeff Offline
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RE: Why no respect ...
(12-22-2019 05:31 AM)cleveland Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 12:24 AM)axeme Wrote:  Wright St. did beat Miami twice, once in Oxford and again at a neutral site and beat Toledo today at UT, but KSU beat them at the Nutter Center, unless the point was simply to list mid-major losses and not wins. Also, Towson is a decent mid and is better than some of the teams on that list of losses and both UB and KSU beat them.

The point is ... to separate from the mid-major pack, as a conference, you just can't have this many loses to other mids, particularly those hovering w/ .500 records. A loss to Liberty in and of itself is not bad. But a loss to an Atlantic Sun conference team, where Liberty is the only team in the league above .500 is bad ... if that makes sense.

The A-10, the Mtn. West and WCC are all conferences the top half of the MAC can stand toe-to-toe with. But come March those leagues will have 2-3 teams in the MAC Tournament seeded 8-13 or better where a good matchup can lead to an upset. Why, because they lose very few games vs. other mids. Not because they have more power 5 upsets.

The MAC will be a 14-seed, sent west of the Mississippi, against a team it has little chance to upset, because the MAC can't beat Qunnipiac or Army or UMKC.
It seems every year we have dire predictions of getting a 14 or 15 seed because we suck so bad but that never happens. I think the last time a MAC team was a 14th seed we had two teams in the tourney.
12-22-2019 02:58 PM
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wmubroncopilot Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Why no respect ...
(12-22-2019 02:58 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 05:31 AM)cleveland Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 12:24 AM)axeme Wrote:  Wright St. did beat Miami twice, once in Oxford and again at a neutral site and beat Toledo today at UT, but KSU beat them at the Nutter Center, unless the point was simply to list mid-major losses and not wins. Also, Towson is a decent mid and is better than some of the teams on that list of losses and both UB and KSU beat them.

The point is ... to separate from the mid-major pack, as a conference, you just can't have this many loses to other mids, particularly those hovering w/ .500 records. A loss to Liberty in and of itself is not bad. But a loss to an Atlantic Sun conference team, where Liberty is the only team in the league above .500 is bad ... if that makes sense.

The A-10, the Mtn. West and WCC are all conferences the top half of the MAC can stand toe-to-toe with. But come March those leagues will have 2-3 teams in the MAC Tournament seeded 8-13 or better where a good matchup can lead to an upset. Why, because they lose very few games vs. other mids. Not because they have more power 5 upsets.

The MAC will be a 14-seed, sent west of the Mississippi, against a team it has little chance to upset, because the MAC can't beat Qunnipiac or Army or UMKC.
It seems every year we have dire predictions of getting a 14 or 15 seed because we suck so bad but that never happens. I think the last time a MAC team was a 14th seed we had two teams in the tourney.

No. 2011 was a 15 seed (Akron), 2014 (WMU), '16 (Buffalo) and '17 (KSU) were all 14s. All one bid years.
12-22-2019 03:10 PM
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bg816 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Why no respect ...
(12-22-2019 05:31 AM)cleveland Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 12:24 AM)axeme Wrote:  Wright St. did beat Miami twice, once in Oxford and again at a neutral site and beat Toledo today at UT, but KSU beat them at the Nutter Center, unless the point was simply to list mid-major losses and not wins. Also, Towson is a decent mid and is better than some of the teams on that list of losses and both UB and KSU beat them.

The point is ... to separate from the mid-major pack, as a conference, you just can't have this many loses to other mids, particularly those hovering w/ .500 records. A loss to Liberty in and of itself is not bad. But a loss to an Atlantic Sun conference team, where Liberty is the only team in the league above .500 is bad ... if that makes sense.

The A-10, the Mtn. West and WCC are all conferences the top half of the MAC can stand toe-to-toe with. But come March those leagues will have 2-3 teams in the MAC Tournament seeded 8-13 or better where a good matchup can lead to an upset. Why, because they lose very few games vs. other mids. Not because they have more power 5 upsets.

The MAC will be a 14-seed, sent west of the Mississippi, against a team it has little chance to upset, because the MAC can't beat Qunnipiac or Army or UMKC.

The committee takes into consideration a lot of factors when seeding teams. As an example, should BG win the MAC, the committee will consider that they have played much of their OOC schedule without the best player in the league-a legit NBA prospect. Still doesn’t excuse the Norfolk State loss (not sure what happened there), but they will see good wins against WKU and UC. A season isn’t judged losses alone... And Kentucky lost to Evansville. Do you think they lost the respect of the rest of the SEC?
12-22-2019 03:54 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Why no respect ...
2019: 6-seed Buffalo
2018: 13-seed Buffalo (26-8) [Definitely 12-seed worthy]
2017: 14-seed Kent State (22-13)
2016: 14-seed Buffalo (20-14)
2015: 12-seed Buffalo (23-9)
2014: 14-seed WMU (23-9)
2013: 12-seed Akron (26-6)
2012: 13-seed Ohio (27-7) [Should have been a 12-seed]
2011: 15-seed Akron (23-12)
2010: 14-seed Ohio (21-14)
2009: 13-seed Akron (23-12)
2008: 9-seed Kent St. (28-6)
2007: 14-seed Miami (OH) (18-14)
12-22-2019 08:39 PM
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kreed5120 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Why no respect ...
For starters one of those losses isn't like the others. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Liberty has a 30+ win season and ends up with a 7-8 seed.

What seed the MAC gets in the tournament really just depends on how conference play and the MAC tournament play out. If Miami or NIU goes 7-11 in conference play then wins the tournament then sure the MAC will have a 15 seed. If a team like Akron or Kent go 14-4 and win the tournament then the MAC is probably looking at a 12 seed.
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2019 08:57 PM by kreed5120.)
12-22-2019 08:56 PM
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cleveland Offline
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RE: Why no respect ...
(12-22-2019 08:56 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  For starters one of those losses isn't like the others. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Liberty has a 30+ win season and ends up with a 7-8 seed.

What seed the MAC gets in the tournament really just depends on how conference play and the MAC tournament play out. If Miami or NIU goes 7-11 in conference play then wins the tournament then sure the MAC will have a 15 seed. If a team like Akron or Kent go 14-4 and win the tournament then the MAC is probably looking at a 12 seed.

Liberty better have 28 or so wins because they are the only team in the conference right now with a winning record. A-Sun has an RPI well above 20. Six teams in the league have three (3) DI wins OR LESS.
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2019 10:18 PM by cleveland.)
12-22-2019 10:16 PM
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kreed5120 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Why no respect ...
(12-22-2019 10:16 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 08:56 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  For starters one of those losses isn't like the others. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Liberty has a 30+ win season and ends up with a 7-8 seed.

What seed the MAC gets in the tournament really just depends on how conference play and the MAC tournament play out. If Miami or NIU goes 7-11 in conference play then wins the tournament then sure the MAC will have a 15 seed. If a team like Akron or Kent go 14-4 and win the tournament then the MAC is probably looking at a 12 seed.

Liberty better have 28 or so wins because they are the only team in the conference right now with a winning record. A-Sun has an RPI well above 20. Six teams in the league have three (3) DI wins OR LESS.

Seeds and at large bids are given to teams, not conferences. Liberty returned 4 starters from last years 29 win, round of 32 team. What conference they play in is irrelevant. They clearly have a talented basketball squad, which plays great team basketball. If Akron does win the MAC's auto bid that will be viewed as a Q1 loss. The same category loss as Akron's loss to WVU or Louisville. It's not a Q4 loss like those other games were.

Edit: I believe the Wright State & UC Irvine would be Q3 losses.
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2019 11:15 PM by kreed5120.)
12-22-2019 11:11 PM
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MaddDawgz02 Offline
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RE: Why no respect ...
Just a catastrophic 10 days for the MAC
12-23-2019 12:40 AM
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DICK Offline
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RE: Why no respect ...
Wright State is a very good team, finished first in the Horizon last year and is picked to finish first again.
12-23-2019 12:59 AM
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axeme Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Why no respect ...
(12-22-2019 11:11 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 10:16 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 08:56 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  For starters one of those losses isn't like the others. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Liberty has a 30+ win season and ends up with a 7-8 seed.

What seed the MAC gets in the tournament really just depends on how conference play and the MAC tournament play out. If Miami or NIU goes 7-11 in conference play then wins the tournament then sure the MAC will have a 15 seed. If a team like Akron or Kent go 14-4 and win the tournament then the MAC is probably looking at a 12 seed.

Liberty better have 28 or so wins because they are the only team in the conference right now with a winning record. A-Sun has an RPI well above 20. Six teams in the league have three (3) DI wins OR LESS.

Seeds and at large bids are given to teams, not conferences. Liberty returned 4 starters from last years 29 win, round of 32 team. What conference they play in is irrelevant. They clearly have a talented basketball squad, which plays great team basketball. If Akron does win the MAC's auto bid that will be viewed as a Q1 loss. The same category loss as Akron's loss to WVU or Louisville. It's not a Q4 loss like those other games were.

Edit: I believe the Wright State & UC Irvine would be Q3 losses.

Wright St. is currently a Q2 win for KSU because it was a road win, but a
Q3 home loss for Toledo and Q3 home and neutral court losses for Miami. Oddly, had the KSU-Wright St game been at Kent it would have been a Q3 win for KSU and a Q2 loss for WSU. As it occurred, it was a Q3 loss for the Raiders.
12-23-2019 06:27 AM
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OUVan Offline
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RE: Why no respect ...
(12-21-2019 06:44 PM)cleveland Wrote:  I have no clue, considering right now I'd give a team I thought was going to struggle all season, Ohio U. just as much chance to win 10 MAC games as just about any other team in the league.

Can you say 14-seed.

Ohio doesn't have a single bad loss (Villanova, Baylor, Utah and Purdue) but they haven't been competitive in any of their four losses to upper level teams. Ohio's biggest problem is that they have no versatility because injuries have left them with no bench. The Bobcats were hoping for contributions from five freshmen but four have missed significant time with injuries. Lunden McDay is the only frosh that has been healthy the whole time and is one of four players averaging over 30 minutes a game. Jason Preston has been a revelation but I'm worried he can stay effective playing 40 minutes a night. But the freshmen have missed out on some valuable development time because of so much missed practice. If Jeff Boals can get them to .500 in conference he should be getting some COTY votes.
12-23-2019 09:12 AM
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Eagle66 Offline
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RE: Why no respect ...
While I was compiling this weeks games for the other thread, I looked up the top 10 wins for the conference as a whole, and each teams best win / worst loss. I used the NET Ratings thru the games of 12/22. I know NET isn't the end all be all, but it was the easiest thing for me this morning.

Top wins for Conference regardless of team
35 Buffalo @ DePaul
86 Cincinnati vs. Bowling Green*
95 Western Kentucky vs. Bowling Green*
110 North Texas vs. Eastern Michigan
111 Wright State vs. Kent State
121 Harvard @ Buffalo
130 Bradley @ Miami
134 Towson @ Buffalo
134 Towson vs. Kent State
137 Valparaiso @ Eastern Michigan
142 Tulane vs. Akron*


Best Wins by Team
Buffalo Bulls - @ 35 DePaul (11-1)
Bowling Green Falcons - 86 Cincinnati* (7-5)
Eastern Michigan Eagles - @ 110 North Texas (4-7)
Kent State Golden Flashes - @ 111 Wright State (8-3)
Miami (OH) RedHawks - 130 Bradley (7-4)
Akron Zips - 142 Tulane* (8-4)
Ball State Cardinals - @ 156 Georgia Tech (5-5)
Ohio Bobcats - @ 180 St. Bonaventure (7-4)
Central Michigan Chippewas - 200 Sam Houston State (4-4)
Northern Illinois Huskies - 211 Coppin St. (4-9)
Western Michigan Broncos - 226 Milwaukee (3-7)
Toledo Rockets - 240 Marshall (4-7)

Worst Losses By Team
Bowling Green Falcons - 337 Norfolk State (1-9)
Buffalo Bulls - 304 Army (4-6)
Central Michigan Chippewas - 302 @ Robert Morris (3-9)
Ball State Cardinals - 300 Western Illinois (1-7)
Western Michigan Broncos - 279 Seattle* (4-7)
Northern Illinois Huskies - 234 Green Bay (3-8)
Toledo Rockets - @ 231 Kansas City (5-7)
Miami (OH) RedHawks - 196 South Alabama* (4-6)
Eastern Michigan Eagles - @ 131 UC-Irvine (5-7)
Kent State Golden Flashes - 131 UC-Irvine* (5-7)
Ohio Bobcats - 65 Utah (9-3)
Akron Zips - 17 Liberty* (14-0)

* Denotes Neutral Site Game

Edit: Fixed, thanks Axeme
(This post was last modified: 12-23-2019 11:29 AM by Eagle66.)
12-23-2019 09:49 AM
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axeme Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Why no respect ...
KSU's win vs. Wright St. was on the road, not in Kent.
12-23-2019 10:10 AM
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