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The "other" semifinal game: Montana State at NDSU (2pm, ESPN-2)
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Duke Dawg Offline
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Post: #81
RE: The "other" semifinal game: Montana State at NDSU (2pm, ESPN-2)
(12-23-2019 12:24 PM)Chalupa Batman Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 04:26 PM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 02:35 PM)Chalupa Batman Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 02:12 PM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 01:08 PM)Chalupa Batman Wrote:  Yes your rushing defense the first 2 playoffs games (and all season really) is impressive no doubt. Neither of those rushing attacks are anywhere close to what ISU has though.

Monmouth was good statistically but as a Big South team they were completely outmatched physically. UNI’s rushing offense ranks 101st nationally. But still, holding any team to zero yards rushing is certainly impressive.

The original comment I made was in reference to another poster here saying we got pushed around up front on both sides of the ball that game. On offense I can’t disagree but I’m not seeing how our defense got pushed around. ISU is a very run heavy team (40 runs to 8 passes), it’s almost like playing an option attack in that they are going to keep running it no matter what because it’s their only real chance to move the ball.

At the end of the day we gave up less than 200 yards total offense, 9 first down, and 3 points. If that’s getting pushed around, every defensive coordinator in the country would take getting pushed around like that in a heartbeat.

Teams can push opposing lines around and still lose the game. To your point, at least an option attack mixes in some variety in ways they run the ball which causes problems for a defense. Everyone knew ISUr was going to turn around and hand the ball the Robinson and you still gave up 4 yards a carry and 160 yards. That is getting pushed around especially when you know exactly whats coming. That was also a week after giving up 171 to a Nichols team that had 4.2 yards a carry yet for some reason decided to throw the ball around. Credit to you guys from causing two picks but the defensive line especially the interior linemen were pushed around in that game as well.


Yep our defense really sucks balls. Keep harping on our rushing defense while ignoring total defense (2nd, 5 yards per game behind you guys) and the most important stat of all, scoring defense (1st, 3 points per game ahead of you guys).


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Where did I say your defense sucks balls? Never a good sign when you cant respond to facts without creating imaginary statements in your head. I simply said that your defense was pushed around and many bison fans would agree with me for your first two playoff games and SIU. (206 yards...yikes).

By the way, whats the first thing almost every single defensive coach at any level of football says they want to do in their game plan? Stop the run. If you have trouble stopping the run it makes it tough to do anything else so yes I will keep harping on your rush defense because it's arguably the most important part of a defensive scheme. Teams get away from the run when your offense is moving up and down the field on them but when you're in a back and forth game that could present problems

No, you didn’t say that, but you keep insisting we got pushed around against ISUr and cherry picking stats from that game and other games to try and prove that point. You’ll forgive me if that’s my takeaway. I’m not ignoring the facts you present either. Would I like us to be better against the run? Yes. But there’s more to defense than simply doing well against the run, I’m giving additional facts to show that (which you are conveniently ignoring). 2nd in total defense (right behind you) and 1st in scoring defense tell a more complete story.

In the 3 games you cherry picked in SIU, Nicholls, and ISU: We’ve allowed a total of 23 points, and 245 total yards per game (over 130 yards below those teams’ season averages). Maybe, and I know this is crazy, our defensive coaches have a pretty good idea of what they’re doing.

One last food for thought: 8 of our 15 opponents rank in the top 33 in FCS in rushing offense, while 4 of JMU’s opponents ranked even in the top 50. I don’t mention that to try and say our run D is as good as yours, because I think yours is the best. Just saying it’s possible that our run defense isn’t quite as bad as many would like to believe.

This is a chicken and an egg argument.

Jmus opponents rush defenses look bad because they played us.

Uri has -6 yards rushing. Uni had zero. Wvu had 34. Those numbers will drag your rush offense down.

Conversely, your opponents rank higher because they played against you. 177 rushing ypg in the last 8 contests.
(This post was last modified: 12-24-2019 08:26 AM by Duke Dawg.)
12-24-2019 08:25 AM
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Potomac Offline
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Post: #82
The "other" semifinal game: Montana State at NDSU (2pm, ESPN-2)
(12-22-2019 01:08 PM)Chalupa Batman Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 12:39 PM)94computerguy Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 09:01 AM)Chalupa Batman Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 08:24 AM)94computerguy Wrote:  
(12-20-2019 11:07 PM)Chalupa Batman Wrote:  Giving up 160 yards on 40 carries isn’t exactly getting pushed around.

That's 160 rushing yards more than the JMU defense gave up in one play short of 2 games combined.

It may not be getting pushed around, but JMU's defense is pretty decent.


I’m not understanding the point of this. Where did I say JMU’s defense isn’t good?

You saying you would give up zero yards to ISU?


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IIRC, your comment was "giving up 160 rushing yards isn't that bad".

If that's not bad, then I'd like to point out that JMU gave up ZERO yards of rushing against UNI. And a single 97-yard run the game before that, and otherwise ZERO yards rushing in that game.

So if 160 in 1 game isn't bad, 97 in 2 games is better. I just wanted to point that out.

Yes your rushing defense the first 2 playoffs games (and all season really) is impressive no doubt. Neither of those rushing attacks are anywhere close to what ISU has though.

Monmouth was good statistically but as a Big South team they were completely outmatched physically. UNI’s rushing offense ranks 101st nationally. But still, holding any team to zero yards rushing is certainly impressive.

The original comment I made was in reference to another poster here saying we got pushed around up front on both sides of the ball that game. On offense I can’t disagree but I’m not seeing how our defense got pushed around. ISU is a very run heavy team (40 runs to 8 passes), it’s almost like playing an option attack in that they are going to keep running it no matter what because it’s their only real chance to move the ball.

At the end of the day we gave up less than 200 yards total offense, 9 first down, and 3 points. If that’s getting pushed around, every defensive coordinator in the country would take getting pushed around like that in a heartbeat.

When you know you can stack 9 men in the box to defend and do nothing else, yeah, giving up 160 yards rushing is a lot.

If ISU could complete a pass, we’d probably be talking to bobcat fans right now about Frisco plans.
12-24-2019 07:45 PM
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Potomac Offline
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Post: #83
The "other" semifinal game: Montana State at NDSU (2pm, ESPN-2)
(12-22-2019 03:14 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 02:35 PM)Chalupa Batman Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 02:12 PM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 01:08 PM)Chalupa Batman Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 12:39 PM)94computerguy Wrote:  IIRC, your comment was "giving up 160 rushing yards isn't that bad".

If that's not bad, then I'd like to point out that JMU gave up ZERO yards of rushing against UNI. And a single 97-yard run the game before that, and otherwise ZERO yards rushing in that game.

So if 160 in 1 game isn't bad, 97 in 2 games is better. I just wanted to point that out.

Yes your rushing defense the first 2 playoffs games (and all season really) is impressive no doubt. Neither of those rushing attacks are anywhere close to what ISU has though.

Monmouth was good statistically but as a Big South team they were completely outmatched physically. UNI’s rushing offense ranks 101st nationally. But still, holding any team to zero yards rushing is certainly impressive.

The original comment I made was in reference to another poster here saying we got pushed around up front on both sides of the ball that game. On offense I can’t disagree but I’m not seeing how our defense got pushed around. ISU is a very run heavy team (40 runs to 8 passes), it’s almost like playing an option attack in that they are going to keep running it no matter what because it’s their only real chance to move the ball.

At the end of the day we gave up less than 200 yards total offense, 9 first down, and 3 points. If that’s getting pushed around, every defensive coordinator in the country would take getting pushed around like that in a heartbeat.

Teams can push opposing lines around and still lose the game. To your point, at least an option attack mixes in some variety in ways they run the ball which causes problems for a defense. Everyone knew ISUr was going to turn around and hand the ball the Robinson and you still gave up 4 yards a carry and 160 yards. That is getting pushed around especially when you know exactly whats coming. That was also a week after giving up 171 to a Nichols team that had 4.2 yards a carry yet for some reason decided to throw the ball around. Credit to you guys from causing two picks but the defensive line especially the interior linemen were pushed around in that game as well.


Yep our defense really sucks balls. Keep harping on our rushing defense while ignoring total defense (2nd, 5 yards per game behind you guys) and the most important stat of all, scoring defense (1st, 3 points per game ahead of you guys).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This years edition of NDSU won’t be able to run on JMU, and the Bison won’t be able to stop the JMU rushing attack. Add in two Stapleton's (you thought one was trouble, wait until NDSU fans start seeing double), a speedy Polk and an elusive, accurate QB for good measure, and JMU wins the NC in a cake-walk.

Haha confident and cocky longhorn is the best longhorn.
12-24-2019 07:54 PM
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Chalupa Batman Offline
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Post: #84
RE: The "other" semifinal game: Montana State at NDSU (2pm, ESPN-2)
(12-24-2019 07:57 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  
(12-23-2019 12:24 PM)Chalupa Batman Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 04:26 PM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 02:35 PM)Chalupa Batman Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 02:12 PM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  Teams can push opposing lines around and still lose the game. To your point, at least an option attack mixes in some variety in ways they run the ball which causes problems for a defense. Everyone knew ISUr was going to turn around and hand the ball the Robinson and you still gave up 4 yards a carry and 160 yards. That is getting pushed around especially when you know exactly whats coming. That was also a week after giving up 171 to a Nichols team that had 4.2 yards a carry yet for some reason decided to throw the ball around. Credit to you guys from causing two picks but the defensive line especially the interior linemen were pushed around in that game as well.


Yep our defense really sucks balls. Keep harping on our rushing defense while ignoring total defense (2nd, 5 yards per game behind you guys) and the most important stat of all, scoring defense (1st, 3 points per game ahead of you guys).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Where did I say your defense sucks balls? Never a good sign when you cant respond to facts without creating imaginary statements in your head. I simply said that your defense was pushed around and many bison fans would agree with me for your first two playoff games and SIU. (206 yards...yikes).

By the way, whats the first thing almost every single defensive coach at any level of football says they want to do in their game plan? Stop the run. If you have trouble stopping the run it makes it tough to do anything else so yes I will keep harping on your rush defense because it's arguably the most important part of a defensive scheme. Teams get away from the run when your offense is moving up and down the field on them but when you're in a back and forth game that could present problems

No, you didn’t say that, but you keep insisting we got pushed around against ISUr and cherry picking stats from that game and other games to try and prove that point. You’ll forgive me if that’s my takeaway. I’m not ignoring the facts you present either. Would I like us to be better against the run? Yes. But there’s more to defense than simply doing well against the run, I’m giving additional facts to show that (which you are conveniently ignoring). 2nd in total defense (right behind you) and 1st in scoring defense tell a more complete story.

In the 3 games you cherry picked in SIU, Nicholls, and ISU: We’ve allowed a total of 23 points, and 245 total yards per game (over 130 yards below those teams’ season averages). Maybe, and I know this is crazy, our defensive coaches have a pretty good idea of what they’re doing.

One last food for thought: 8 of our 15 opponents rank in the top 33 in FCS in rushing offense, while 4 of JMU’s opponents ranked even in the top 50. I don’t mention that to try and say our run D is as good as yours, because I think yours is the best. Just saying it’s possible that our run defense isn’t quite as bad as many would like to believe.

Yet again, please point out where i said your defense sucks or that you havent been dominant. I havent ignored anything you've stated nor made any claims that will run all over your team or anything outlandish but you seem to think that pointing out a perceived weakness is somehow insulting your manhood.

Taking three game (that happened in a row mind you) is not cherry picking stats, some may even call that a trend. If you think it is then i like how you also cherry picked stats to prove your point. Funny how that works. I wonder how many of those top 33 rush offenses got away from the run since you were likely up by a ton of points. That may also explain your top pass defensive stats. Although the more I look into it, you've played maybe 2 decent to good QBs all year. Gibbs gave you the most trouble and he only played a quarter.

Like i said in my first post, you can still get pushed around on the lines and win games even in dominant fashion. However, feel free to continue to be butthurt about it

“Please point out where I said your defense sucks……” I had said in my previous post you didn’t actually say that but that was my (incorrect) takeaway. Apparently I need to apologize for that. Profusely.

“…….or that you haven’t been dominant.” Please point out where you DID say that. You hadn’t said that up until this point. Or even good. Or decent. Or not bad. Maybe that’s what you meant when you credited us for causing two picks against Nicholls. (Believe it or not that’s not even my goal here to get anyone to say that, but I can see how the discussion feels that way.)

And no you didn’t say that you think you are going to run all over us, but I didn’t say you did, so I’m not sure why you seem defensive about that. Maybe we’re both making things up.

To me the main objectives for any defense are:
1. Prevent the other team from moving the ball (as best as possible)
2. Prevent the other team from converting 3rd downs (as best as possible)
3. Prevent the other team from scoring (as best as possible)
Handle #1 & #2, then #3 should take care of itself. Sure, choosing those stats is “cherry picking,” but I’m not sure what’s a better indication of success than those. For the aforementioned 3 game “trend” we gave up 245 yards per game, held teams to 11 for 34 on third down, and gave up 23 total points.

I liked your question about in how many of those games against top 33 rushing offenses did teams get away from the run because they were behind, so I went and looked. They didn’t.

4 of those games were over by halftime and the only ones I looked at. Run percentages for those teams against us, with reg. season % in (): 61% (71%), 66% (63%), 70% (54%), and 64% (64%).

I would guess those numbers are a combination of 3 things: 1. Having some success against us, 2. Sticking to what they do best to begin with (even after falling behind) 3. Respecting our pass defense, possibly even too much.

And I’m not butthurt at all. I’m enjoying this discussion, and looking forward to some fun times in Frisco with JMU fans, just like I had fun last time.

I’ll add this most important thing last: Merry Christmas to all on this board and your families. Also wish safe travels to all those going to Frisco!
12-24-2019 10:55 PM
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Chalupa Batman Offline
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Post: #85
RE: The "other" semifinal game: Montana State at NDSU (2pm, ESPN-2)
(12-24-2019 07:45 PM)Potomac Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 01:08 PM)Chalupa Batman Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 12:39 PM)94computerguy Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 09:01 AM)Chalupa Batman Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 08:24 AM)94computerguy Wrote:  That's 160 rushing yards more than the JMU defense gave up in one play short of 2 games combined.

It may not be getting pushed around, but JMU's defense is pretty decent.


I’m not understanding the point of this. Where did I say JMU’s defense isn’t good?

You saying you would give up zero yards to ISU?


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IIRC, your comment was "giving up 160 rushing yards isn't that bad".

If that's not bad, then I'd like to point out that JMU gave up ZERO yards of rushing against UNI. And a single 97-yard run the game before that, and otherwise ZERO yards rushing in that game.

So if 160 in 1 game isn't bad, 97 in 2 games is better. I just wanted to point that out.

Yes your rushing defense the first 2 playoffs games (and all season really) is impressive no doubt. Neither of those rushing attacks are anywhere close to what ISU has though.

Monmouth was good statistically but as a Big South team they were completely outmatched physically. UNI’s rushing offense ranks 101st nationally. But still, holding any team to zero yards rushing is certainly impressive.

The original comment I made was in reference to another poster here saying we got pushed around up front on both sides of the ball that game. On offense I can’t disagree but I’m not seeing how our defense got pushed around. ISU is a very run heavy team (40 runs to 8 passes), it’s almost like playing an option attack in that they are going to keep running it no matter what because it’s their only real chance to move the ball.

At the end of the day we gave up less than 200 yards total offense, 9 first down, and 3 points. If that’s getting pushed around, every defensive coordinator in the country would take getting pushed around like that in a heartbeat.

When you know you can stack 9 men in the box to defend and do nothing else, yeah, giving up 160 yards rushing is a lot.

If ISU could complete a pass, we’d probably be talking to bobcat fans right now about Frisco plans.

If we had stacked the box with 9 men (we didn’t) and gave up 160 yards, yes that would be a lot and would agree we got pushed around. We have refused to come out of our base Tampa 2 defense all year, and that game was no different.


I also just noticed you guys have a rockin' hook 'em horns emoji for us Bison fans. 04-rock Much appreciated!!
12-24-2019 11:04 PM
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