EigenEagle
Hall of Famer
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RE: Liberty
(12-16-2019 04:21 PM)ButlerGSU Wrote: (12-16-2019 03:19 PM)HighlandsApp Wrote: Billions of dollars from taxpayer backed student loans fund it all from poor folks who never earn a degree.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/magaz...nline.html
Quote:By 2016, Liberty’s net assets had crossed the $1.6 billion mark, up more than tenfold from a decade earlier. Thanks to its low spending on instruction, its net income was an astonishing $215 million on nearly $1 billion in revenue, according to its tax filing — making it one of the most lucrative nonprofits in the country, based simply on the difference between its operating revenue and expenses, in a league with some of the largest nonprofit hospital systems.
Quote:in her years of teaching and taking courses, she said, she had never seen anything as flimsy as what L.U.O. passed off in its supposedly graduate-level courses. She had little interaction with the instructor, and the questions for the midterm and final exams were so arbitrary that it seemed to Hart as if they had been randomly generated by a computer program. She spent the open-book exams wildly flipping back and forth through the textbook and course materials trying to find the relevant passages. It was, she wrote to L.U.O. officials later, like “looking for Waldo.”
That's pretty much non-profit in name only.
I don't have much of a problem with it's religious affiliation. I have a problem with online learning in general. I'm certain I could make a nice living taking people's online exams for them if it weren't for some practical and ethical hang-ups.
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12-16-2019 04:40 PM |
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army56mike
Moderator
Posts: 11,994
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 380
I Root For: Liberty & UofL
Location: Shepherdsville, KY
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RE: Liberty
Liberty actually is a fantastic school. I graduated from their online program and am very thankful to have had the opportunity. It is such a military friendly school. I have a junior there now and will have a freshman in the school of music next fall (future rock star), and maybe another in the school of business if he doesn’t decide to enlist in the Army this summer.
I’d encourage you to wait and pass judgement until you have experienced the campus and seen what we really offer firsthand. I know we have a number of games vs. SB competition over the coming years. You’d be welcomed on campus.
As far as our future. I’m not counting my chickens before they’re hatched. We are still a young university, with a just budding athletic department. I am thrilled to make a bowl game this year and face off against a tradition rich and strong program like Ga. Southern. I’ll enjoy the ride with our basketball team as long as it lasts. We’ll lose a lot of talent next year.
The school has poured tons of money into infrastructure and developing its academic programs. I am thankful for that. We have a beautiful campus with great student life and much to offer. But, many schools can claim that, and in that sense we are no different than many institutions.
Anywho... the Sunbelt has shown over recent years that it’s a conference to contend with, getting stronger annually. Keep it up!
All Flames! All Day!!
Be Early! Be Loud!! Wear Red!!!
Light’em Up!
Training Champions for Christ!!!
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12-16-2019 04:50 PM |
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Oldyeller
All American
Posts: 3,210
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation: 165
I Root For: Ga Southern
Location:
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RE: Liberty
On line learning is great but athletics are more in line with a traditional universities and the interaction of universities, students and professors face to face. Learning from a diverse group benefiting from experience is key. For example I'd rather be taught by a former CEO or play the likes of Alabama to earn my stripes. Traditions are created by individuals. It could be argued that GS will be under-served with this matchup. But with the state of academia in America I'm delighted to participate in anything that flies in the face of the current situation. Looking forward to the match up!
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12-16-2019 05:35 PM |
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panama
Legend
Posts: 31,351
Joined: May 2009
Reputation: 633
I Root For: Georgia STATE
Location: East Atlanta Village
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RE: Liberty
(12-16-2019 01:44 PM)ericsaid Wrote: Online diploma mill with very low standards. I have no problem with attending a school online but Liberty is on par with the University of Phoenix.
...
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
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12-16-2019 05:51 PM |
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panama
Legend
Posts: 31,351
Joined: May 2009
Reputation: 633
I Root For: Georgia STATE
Location: East Atlanta Village
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RE: Liberty
(12-16-2019 02:16 PM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote: (12-16-2019 01:44 PM)ericsaid Wrote: Online diploma mill with very low standards. I have no problem with attending a school online but Liberty is on par with the University of Phoenix.
How do you figure?
Presumably because he can read and do math...
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
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12-16-2019 05:51 PM |
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The Mandalorian
Water Engineer
Posts: 5
Joined: Dec 2019
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I Root For: TROY
Location:
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RE: Liberty
(12-16-2019 05:51 PM)panama Wrote: (12-16-2019 02:16 PM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote: (12-16-2019 01:44 PM)ericsaid Wrote: Online diploma mill with very low standards. I have no problem with attending a school online but Liberty is on par with the University of Phoenix.
How do you figure?
Presumably because he can read and do math...
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Agreed. I have spoken
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12-16-2019 07:40 PM |
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JoeJag
Sun Belt Nationalist
Posts: 6,060
Joined: Jul 2009
Reputation: 180
I Root For: South Alabama
Location: Up the hill from USA
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RE: Liberty
(12-16-2019 07:40 PM)The Mandalorian Wrote: (12-16-2019 05:51 PM)panama Wrote: (12-16-2019 02:16 PM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote: (12-16-2019 01:44 PM)ericsaid Wrote: Online diploma mill with very low standards. I have no problem with attending a school online but Liberty is on par with the University of Phoenix.
How do you figure?
Presumably because he can read and do math...
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Agreed. I have spoken
And what was that you said?
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12-16-2019 07:43 PM |
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OsageJ
Sun Belt Nationalist
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I Root For: stAte
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RE: Liberty
(12-16-2019 03:19 PM)HighlandsApp Wrote: Billions of dollars from taxpayer backed student loans fund it all from poor folks who never earn a degree.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/magaz...nline.html
I doubt there is any school in this conference that hasn't made money in the same way. I don't it it's as much but I bet it's a bunch.
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12-16-2019 07:59 PM |
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AppfanInCAAland
1st String
Posts: 1,539
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 112
I Root For: App State
Location: Midlothian, VA
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RE: Liberty
(12-16-2019 07:59 PM)OsageJ Wrote: (12-16-2019 03:19 PM)HighlandsApp Wrote: Billions of dollars from taxpayer backed student loans fund it all from poor folks who never earn a degree.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/magaz...nline.html
I doubt there is any school in this conference that hasn't made money in the same way. I don't it it's as much but I bet it's a bunch.
You could say this about just about every college in America. Look at Boone, it has grown fat and happy on easy access to student loan money. Most college towns and bigger cities' college neighborhoods are the same. There are many thing to criticize LU about, and many things to respect as well, but criticizing their acceptance of student loan money without also criticizing every other school for doing the same is disingenuous.
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12-16-2019 09:38 PM |
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CardinalBlackTrojan
Moderator
Posts: 8,386
Joined: Dec 2008
Reputation: 527
I Root For: TROY
Location: Clearwater Beach, FL
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RE: Liberty
(12-16-2019 07:40 PM)The Mandalorian Wrote: (12-16-2019 05:51 PM)panama Wrote: (12-16-2019 02:16 PM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote: (12-16-2019 01:44 PM)ericsaid Wrote: Online diploma mill with very low standards. I have no problem with attending a school online but Liberty is on par with the University of Phoenix.
How do you figure?
Presumably because he can read and do math...
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Agreed. I have spoken
I think it's probably safe to say that these comments have less to do with their academic prowess and more to do with their religious background. Just call a spade a spade.
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12-16-2019 10:11 PM |
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airtroop
Sun Belt Nationalist
Posts: 2,256
Joined: Feb 2009
Reputation: 48
I Root For: South Alabama
Location: Mobile, AL
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RE: Liberty
(12-16-2019 04:32 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote: (12-16-2019 04:00 PM)troutbummike Wrote: Clearly, the Lord is blessing them in the important ways He does.
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12-16-2019 10:22 PM |
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arkstfan
Sorry folks
Posts: 25,818
Joined: Feb 2004
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I Root For: Fresh Starts
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RE: Liberty
(12-16-2019 09:38 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote: (12-16-2019 07:59 PM)OsageJ Wrote: (12-16-2019 03:19 PM)HighlandsApp Wrote: Billions of dollars from taxpayer backed student loans fund it all from poor folks who never earn a degree.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/magaz...nline.html
I doubt there is any school in this conference that hasn't made money in the same way. I don't it it's as much but I bet it's a bunch.
You could say this about just about every college in America. Look at Boone, it has grown fat and happy on easy access to student loan money. Most college towns and bigger cities' college neighborhoods are the same. There are many thing to criticize LU about, and many things to respect as well, but criticizing their acceptance of student loan money without also criticizing every other school for doing the same is disingenuous.
Before Arkansas State will take your loan money you need a high school GPA of 2.75 and ACT score of 21. The LOWEST standard to get into a four year state supported school in Arkansas is 2.00 high school GPA and a 16 ACT and that's just conditional admission where you have to take some non-credit courses on how to study and non-credit classes to catch you up on what you scored low in. ACT 19 and GPA 2.0 is the minimum to get in without remediation.
Liberty's online program with it's enrollment of 75,000 to 90,000 depending on who you believe requires nothing more than a high school diploma or a GED and you don't even have to provide proof. You just fill out this form and say you did. https://www.liberty.edu/media/1270/High_...ric_v1.pdf
Limiting admission to students with some probability of successfully completing college vs taking anyone are different things.
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12-16-2019 10:25 PM |
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HighlandsApp
Special Teams
Posts: 600
Joined: Jan 2017
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I Root For: AppState
Location:
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RE: Liberty
(12-16-2019 09:38 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote: (12-16-2019 07:59 PM)OsageJ Wrote: (12-16-2019 03:19 PM)HighlandsApp Wrote: Billions of dollars from taxpayer backed student loans fund it all from poor folks who never earn a degree.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/magaz...nline.html
I doubt there is any school in this conference that hasn't made money in the same way. I don't it it's as much but I bet it's a bunch.
You could say this about just about every college in America. Look at Boone, it has grown fat and happy on easy access to student loan money. Most college towns and bigger cities' college neighborhoods are the same. There are many thing to criticize LU about, and many things to respect as well, but criticizing their acceptance of student loan money without also criticizing every other school for doing the same is disingenuous.
There are very few public or private schools that are "fat and happy". AppState is the lowest funded school per student in the 16 campus UNC system.
As far as online schools - the online classes by most universities who has a mission to educate the classes actually have instructor interaction with the students. I know this to be the case with AppState and Troy.
Troy has a very large and successful online degree program. A semi retired Troy professor goes to my church. He now has MS but can teach.a class or two per semester and enjoys it. He says that he spends far more time per class this way than in person because of the communication individually with each student either by email or video conference.
AppState and other UNC system schools are looking to increase distance learning. Most of AppState distance learning classes involve some instruction time in either Boone, Hickory or Winston Salem.
The Liberty model is like the other for profit sign up take computer module classes. The only hands on part is help if needed to navigate the financial aid process so the business gets the income from the federal student loans program. Obviously as court cases have and continue to prove, this can be wrought with fraud.
By the way, you mentioned that there are many things to respect about Liberty. Such as????? Exactly what is their mission? Seems that it is making president rich and a political policy influencer.
(This post was last modified: 12-16-2019 10:36 PM by HighlandsApp.)
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12-16-2019 10:33 PM |
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07pantheralum
Special Teams
Posts: 614
Joined: Jan 2014
Reputation: 37
I Root For: GSU/GT
Location: Atlanta
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RE: Liberty
All I have to say is Go effing Eagles. Humiliate them.
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12-16-2019 10:59 PM |
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panama
Legend
Posts: 31,351
Joined: May 2009
Reputation: 633
I Root For: Georgia STATE
Location: East Atlanta Village
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RE: Liberty
(12-16-2019 10:11 PM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote: (12-16-2019 07:40 PM)The Mandalorian Wrote: (12-16-2019 05:51 PM)panama Wrote: (12-16-2019 02:16 PM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote: (12-16-2019 01:44 PM)ericsaid Wrote: Online diploma mill with very low standards. I have no problem with attending a school online but Liberty is on par with the University of Phoenix.
How do you figure?
Presumably because he can read and do math...
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Agreed. I have spoken
I think it's probably safe to say that these comments have less to do with their academic prowess and more to do with their religious background. Just call a spade a spade.
Not sure what that has to do with using online tuition as an ATM...
*pours coffee*
....but go on caller, I'm listening...
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
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12-16-2019 11:25 PM |
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CajunFan3406
1st String
Posts: 1,670
Joined: Nov 2012
Reputation: 61
I Root For: UL
Location: Lafayette
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Liberty
(12-16-2019 04:32 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote: (12-16-2019 04:00 PM)troutbummike Wrote: Clearly, the Lord is blessing them in the important ways He does.
The Force is strong in this one
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12-17-2019 12:50 AM |
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eaglewraith
Heisman
Posts: 5,512
Joined: Dec 2012
Reputation: 236
I Root For: GA Southern
Location:
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RE: Liberty
(12-17-2019 12:50 AM)CajunFan3406 Wrote: (12-16-2019 04:32 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote: (12-16-2019 04:00 PM)troutbummike Wrote: Clearly, the Lord is blessing them in the important ways He does.
The Force is strong in this one
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
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12-17-2019 08:41 AM |
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AppfanInCAAland
1st String
Posts: 1,539
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 112
I Root For: App State
Location: Midlothian, VA
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RE: Liberty
(12-16-2019 10:33 PM)HighlandsApp Wrote: (12-16-2019 09:38 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote: (12-16-2019 07:59 PM)OsageJ Wrote: (12-16-2019 03:19 PM)HighlandsApp Wrote: Billions of dollars from taxpayer backed student loans fund it all from poor folks who never earn a degree.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/magaz...nline.html
I doubt there is any school in this conference that hasn't made money in the same way. I don't it it's as much but I bet it's a bunch.
You could say this about just about every college in America. Look at Boone, it has grown fat and happy on easy access to student loan money. Most college towns and bigger cities' college neighborhoods are the same. There are many thing to criticize LU about, and many things to respect as well, but criticizing their acceptance of student loan money without also criticizing every other school for doing the same is disingenuous.
There are very few public or private schools that are "fat and happy". AppState is the lowest funded school per student in the 16 campus UNC system.
As far as online schools - the online classes by most universities who has a mission to educate the classes actually have instructor interaction with the students. I know this to be the case with AppState and Troy.
Troy has a very large and successful online degree program. A semi retired Troy professor goes to my church. He now has MS but can teach.a class or two per semester and enjoys it. He says that he spends far more time per class this way than in person because of the communication individually with each student either by email or video conference.
AppState and other UNC system schools are looking to increase distance learning. Most of AppState distance learning classes involve some instruction time in either Boone, Hickory or Winston Salem.
The Liberty model is like the other for profit sign up take computer module classes. The only hands on part is help if needed to navigate the financial aid process so the business gets the income from the federal student loans program. Obviously as court cases have and continue to prove, this can be wrought with fraud.
By the way, you mentioned that there are many things to respect about Liberty. Such as????? Exactly what is their mission? Seems that it is making president rich and a political policy influencer.
Technically, I said Boone was "fat and happy", not App State. There is a difference. I was primarily referring to two things. One was how students can accept more than tuition as part of their student loans and that more goes to things like apartments, bars, restaurants, stores, etc (every college town is hoppin' place), and the second was just the general trend that easy loan money means more students than should probably be there, regardless of standards.
Financial aid and student loans is corrupt and broken process regardless of the institution involved. Students go into debt for either worthless degrees or never graduate at every institution in the country. All I was really getting at was Liberty U is just symptom of a much wider problem.
As for what to respect about Liberty U, not a whole lot honestly, I was mostly just being nice. But I do respect a few things - how they didn't let setbacks halt their goal of going FBS, and how their affiliated high school did they same with the VHSL. Also, having spent a good bit of time in Lynchburg for work, I have some appreciation for how they have transformed that dying mill town into a vibrant place - much of that relates to my early student loan comments but they also have put alot of effort into the bringing in a variety of cultural experiences and community outreach/improvement initiatives.
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12-17-2019 08:47 AM |
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CardinalBlackTrojan
Moderator
Posts: 8,386
Joined: Dec 2008
Reputation: 527
I Root For: TROY
Location: Clearwater Beach, FL
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RE: Liberty
(12-16-2019 11:25 PM)panama Wrote: (12-16-2019 10:11 PM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote: (12-16-2019 07:40 PM)The Mandalorian Wrote: (12-16-2019 05:51 PM)panama Wrote: (12-16-2019 02:16 PM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote: How do you figure?
Presumably because he can read and do math...
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Agreed. I have spoken
I think it's probably safe to say that these comments have less to do with their academic prowess and more to do with their religious background. Just call a spade a spade.
Not sure what that has to do with using online tuition as an ATM...
*pours coffee*
....but go on caller, I'm listening...
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
I mean... you pretty much never like anything about Liberty, aside from their online doings. It's just another available shot to take at them to somehow affirm that they're a bad school.
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12-17-2019 10:05 AM |
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HighlandsApp
Special Teams
Posts: 600
Joined: Jan 2017
Reputation: 36
I Root For: AppState
Location:
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RE: Liberty
(12-17-2019 08:47 AM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote: (12-16-2019 10:33 PM)HighlandsApp Wrote: (12-16-2019 09:38 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote: (12-16-2019 07:59 PM)OsageJ Wrote: (12-16-2019 03:19 PM)HighlandsApp Wrote: Billions of dollars from taxpayer backed student loans fund it all from poor folks who never earn a degree.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/magaz...nline.html
I doubt there is any school in this conference that hasn't made money in the same way. I don't it it's as much but I bet it's a bunch.
You could say this about just about every college in America. Look at Boone, it has grown fat and happy on easy access to student loan money. Most college towns and bigger cities' college neighborhoods are the same. There are many thing to criticize LU about, and many things to respect as well, but criticizing their acceptance of student loan money without also criticizing every other school for doing the same is disingenuous.
There are very few public or private schools that are "fat and happy". AppState is the lowest funded school per student in the 16 campus UNC system.
As far as online schools - the online classes by most universities who has a mission to educate the classes actually have instructor interaction with the students. I know this to be the case with AppState and Troy.
Troy has a very large and successful online degree program. A semi retired Troy professor goes to my church. He now has MS but can teach.a class or two per semester and enjoys it. He says that he spends far more time per class this way than in person because of the communication individually with each student either by email or video conference.
AppState and other UNC system schools are looking to increase distance learning. Most of AppState distance learning classes involve some instruction time in either Boone, Hickory or Winston Salem.
The Liberty model is like the other for profit sign up take computer module classes. The only hands on part is help if needed to navigate the financial aid process so the business gets the income from the federal student loans program. Obviously as court cases have and continue to prove, this can be wrought with fraud.
By the way, you mentioned that there are many things to respect about Liberty. Such as????? Exactly what is their mission? Seems that it is making president rich and a political policy influencer.
Technically, I said Boone was "fat and happy", not App State. There is a difference. I was primarily referring to two things. One was how students can accept more than tuition as part of their student loans and that more goes to things like apartments, bars, restaurants, stores, etc (every college town is hoppin' place), and the second was just the general trend that easy loan money means more students than should probably be there, regardless of standards.
Financial aid and student loans is corrupt and broken process regardless of the institution involved. Students go into debt for either worthless degrees or never graduate at every institution in the country. All I was really getting at was Liberty U is just symptom of a much wider problem.
As for what to respect about Liberty U, not a whole lot honestly, I was mostly just being nice. But I do respect a few things - how they didn't let setbacks halt their goal of going FBS, and how their affiliated high school did they same with the VHSL. Also, having spent a good bit of time in Lynchburg for work, I have some appreciation for how they have transformed that dying mill town into a vibrant place - much of that relates to my early student loan comments but they also have put alot of effort into the bringing in a variety of cultural experiences and community outreach/improvement initiatives.
Sorry, I took your post the wrong way.
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12-17-2019 12:01 PM |
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