Yeah I didn't catch much of the game so didn't see how it was called earlier but did hear the commentators saying that. Regardless though, if he's just looking for the ball I think it's much more likely to be seen by the refs as a defender with position trying to break up the pass while the receiver tries to climb over him rather than a defender just flailing his arms and running in to the receiver keeping him from getting back to the ball while the receiver is the only one trying to get to the ball.
That game set football back twenty years. It was a very clear mess up on the lateral. Those officials should be punished, it was that blatantly bad. In the moment you can’t know how big of an impact a single missed call will have, but that one was bad.
I’ve always said that replay isn’t the answer for making officials better. They need to pay them better (money attracts talent) but also punish those that perform poorly.
(12-15-2019 09:59 AM)JMU_Newbill Wrote: That game set football back twenty years. It was a very clear mess up on the lateral. Those officials should be punished, it was that blatantly bad. In the moment you can’t know how big of an impact a single missed call will have, but that one was bad.
I’ve always said that replay isn’t the answer for making officials better. They need to pay them better (money attracts talent) but also punish those that perform poorly.
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Seems to me any refereeing crew who has replay available and part of that game should know that whenever a QB throws a pass that is anywhere close to being on a line straight across or certainly any chance that it could be a lateral then they should avoid blowing the whistle. I get your point that replay isn't making officials better.
In this case, I think replay is perfect for that scenario but the refs need to hold off blowing the whistle and let the play go. They can always go back and check replay to rule if it was a legal forward pass (which in this case obviously it wasn't). When they go ahead and blow the play dead on such a borderline angle of throw across the field, a good tool called replay is pretty much nullified because they already blew it dead. I still don't know why replay wasn't still used to at least award ISU the ball at the recovery point.
NDSU caught a major break on a play that could've turned the game significantly in ISU's favor.
NDSU did what the do throughout the season every year. Survive and get home field in their dome for the playoffs. They may have the best talent in all of FCS but take them out of those MVC domes and they don't have a #1 team. This is the third time I've watched them play this year and they haven't seemed to improve all that much the past two months.
IF I were a bison fan, I would be quite concerned about next week. They aren't going to beat MSU with the playbook they used on Saturday.
IF we make it past next week and head to Frisco. I would like to play NDSU just to shut up the buffalo fans but would rather compete against the best competition which I think is MSU.
NDSU needs to stop getting drunk fans to volunteer to paint lines on their field. Oh wait, that's a $3M carpet and those lines are permanent! And they want to judge others that need to use a tent locker room during a stadium renovation.
(This post was last modified: 12-15-2019 01:35 PM by RamDawg.)
(12-15-2019 12:24 AM)BDKJMU Wrote: It wouldn’t have been 3 feet over the WR’s fingers if the DB hadn’t grabbed the top of his jersey for a second holding him down. The commentators thought it was pass interference..If that had been a JMU WR everyone on here would have been going apeshit over the non call.
Sorry. I'm not buying that argument when the pass wasn't even remotely close. He's not some super human who can leap that high. The pass was just a bad pass. The no call was correct.
ILSU 40 rushing attempts, only 8 passing. With their backup QB was 3 for 8, 34 yds, 0 TD/1 INT. If they had ANY semblance of a passing game they would have won..
Couple horrendous calls already talked about.
-2nd qtr 3rd & goal for NDSU the blatant pass interference not called, NDSU settles fir 3, cost NDSU 4 points.
-3rd qtr NDSU throws obvious lateral ILSU player scoops and is running to endzone for TD but referees blew it dead says was forward pass. Review clearly showed lateral. Cost ILSU 7.
Should have been a 13-10 final.
There was one other non-call I think they may have missed.
There was a play where Bizon had 3 or 4 guys tackling the QB I believe, and he took a shot to the head that popped his helmet clean off. On replay to it looked like a hit straight to the players head by a defender as he is going down.
Was surprised at the time that wasn't called targeting, or even reviewed, especially given it was a CAA crew. JMU would have been flagged for targeting on that, guaranteed.
ILSU 40 rushing attempts, only 8 passing. With their backup QB was 3 for 8, 34 yds, 0 TD/1 INT. If they had ANY semblance of a passing game they would have won..
Couple horrendous calls already talked about.
-2nd qtr 3rd & goal for NDSU the blatant pass interference not called, NDSU settles fir 3, cost NDSU 4 points.
-3rd qtr NDSU throws obvious lateral ILSU player scoops and is running to endzone for TD but referees blew it dead says was forward pass. Review clearly showed lateral. Cost ILSU 7.
Should have been a 13-10 final.
There was one other non-call I think they may have missed.
There was a play where Bizon had 3 or 4 guys tackling the QB I believe, and he took a shot to the head that popped his helmet clean off. On replay to it looked like a hit straight to the players head by a defender as he is going down.
Was surprised at the time that wasn't called targeting, or even reviewed, especially given it was a CAA crew. JMU would have been flagged for targeting on that, guaranteed.
Just going by memory I recall the hand of one of the multiple NDSU players in on the sack raking across/maybe latching onto, the back of the ILSU’s QB’s helmet and pulling it off as the QB was falling down/being sacked.
I don’t recall any obvious helmet to helmet (not saying there wasn’t any). Don’t recall any of the commentators saying anything about targeting..Would have to see a replay.
ILSU 40 rushing attempts, only 8 passing. With their backup QB was 3 for 8, 34 yds, 0 TD/1 INT. If they had ANY semblance of a passing game they would have won..
Couple horrendous calls already talked about.
-2nd qtr 3rd & goal for NDSU the blatant pass interference not called, NDSU settles fir 3, cost NDSU 4 points.
-3rd qtr NDSU throws obvious lateral ILSU player scoops and is running to endzone for TD but referees blew it dead says was forward pass. Review clearly showed lateral. Cost ILSU 7.
Should have been a 13-10 final.
There was one other non-call I think they may have missed.
There was a play where Bizon had 3 or 4 guys tackling the QB I believe, and he took a shot to the head that popped his helmet clean off. On replay to it looked like a hit straight to the players head by a defender as he is going down.
Was surprised at the time that wasn't called targeting, or even reviewed, especially given it was a CAA crew. JMU would have been flagged for targeting on that, guaranteed.
Just going by memory I recall the hand of one of the multiple NDSU players in on the sack raking across/maybe latching onto, the back of the ILSU’s QB’s helmet and pulling it off as the QB was falling down/being sacked.
I don’t recall any obvious helmet to helmet (not saying there wasn’t any). Don’t recall any of the commentators saying anything about targeting..Would have to see a replay.
Wouldn’t pulling the helmet off of an opponent be a penalty?
ILSU 40 rushing attempts, only 8 passing. With their backup QB was 3 for 8, 34 yds, 0 TD/1 INT. If they had ANY semblance of a passing game they would have won..
Couple horrendous calls already talked about.
-2nd qtr 3rd & goal for NDSU the blatant pass interference not called, NDSU settles fir 3, cost NDSU 4 points.
-3rd qtr NDSU throws obvious lateral ILSU player scoops and is running to endzone for TD but referees blew it dead says was forward pass. Review clearly showed lateral. Cost ILSU 7.
Should have been a 13-10 final.
There was one other non-call I think they may have missed.
There was a play where Bizon had 3 or 4 guys tackling the QB I believe, and he took a shot to the head that popped his helmet clean off. On replay to it looked like a hit straight to the players head by a defender as he is going down.
Was surprised at the time that wasn't called targeting, or even reviewed, especially given it was a CAA crew. JMU would have been flagged for targeting on that, guaranteed.
Just going by memory I recall the hand of one of the multiple NDSU players in on the sack raking across/maybe latching onto, the back of the ILSU’s QB’s helmet and pulling it off as the QB was falling down/being sacked.
I don’t recall any obvious helmet to helmet (not saying there wasn’t any). Don’t recall any of the commentators saying anything about targeting..Would have to see a replay.
Wouldn’t pulling the helmet off of an opponent be a penalty?
From the back of the helmet I guess, but would have to see the replay if the defensive players hand actually grabbed it.
Have you ever seem a facemask called for grabbing the BACK of the helmet? Would that be an unnecessary roughness?
ILSU 40 rushing attempts, only 8 passing. With their backup QB was 3 for 8, 34 yds, 0 TD/1 INT. If they had ANY semblance of a passing game they would have won..
Couple horrendous calls already talked about.
-2nd qtr 3rd & goal for NDSU the blatant pass interference not called, NDSU settles fir 3, cost NDSU 4 points.
-3rd qtr NDSU throws obvious lateral ILSU player scoops and is running to endzone for TD but referees blew it dead says was forward pass. Review clearly showed lateral. Cost ILSU 7.
Should have been a 13-10 final.
There was one other non-call I think they may have missed.
There was a play where Bizon had 3 or 4 guys tackling the QB I believe, and he took a shot to the head that popped his helmet clean off. On replay to it looked like a hit straight to the players head by a defender as he is going down.
Was surprised at the time that wasn't called targeting, or even reviewed, especially given it was a CAA crew. JMU would have been flagged for targeting on that, guaranteed.
Just going by memory I recall the hand of one of the multiple NDSU players in on the sack raking across/maybe latching onto, the back of the ILSU’s QB’s helmet and pulling it off as the QB was falling down/being sacked.
I don’t recall any obvious helmet to helmet (not saying there wasn’t any). Don’t recall any of the commentators saying anything about targeting..Would have to see a replay.
Wouldn’t pulling the helmet off of an opponent be a penalty?
From the back of the helmet I guess, but would have to see the replay if the defensive players hand actually grabbed it.
Have you ever seem a facemask called for grabbing the BACK of the helmet? Would that be an unnecessary roughness?
Targeting does not require helmet to helmet contact. Hands/arms and other body part blows to the head/neck area count also. There was fairly strong contact for the helmet to come flying off the way it did. Didn't at least one of our targeting calls this year involve non-helmet to helmet where the opposing player was going down in a similar fashion, and the defender couldn't easily avoid a collision?
Here's the relevant part (Rule 9-1-4)
"No player shall target and make forcible contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent with the helmet, forearm, hand, fist, elbow, or shoulder. The foul requires that there be at least one indicator of targeting. When in question, it is a foul."
(This post was last modified: 12-16-2019 02:20 AM by JMURocks.)
(12-15-2019 04:35 PM)JMURocks Wrote: There was one other non-call I think they may have missed.
There was a play where Bizon had 3 or 4 guys tackling the QB I believe, and he took a shot to the head that popped his helmet clean off. On replay to it looked like a hit straight to the players head by a defender as he is going down.
Was surprised at the time that wasn't called targeting, or even reviewed, especially given it was a CAA crew. JMU would have been flagged for targeting on that, guaranteed.
Just going by memory I recall the hand of one of the multiple NDSU players in on the sack raking across/maybe latching onto, the back of the ILSU’s QB’s helmet and pulling it off as the QB was falling down/being sacked.
I don’t recall any obvious helmet to helmet (not saying there wasn’t any). Don’t recall any of the commentators saying anything about targeting..Would have to see a replay.
Wouldn’t pulling the helmet off of an opponent be a penalty?
From the back of the helmet I guess, but would have to see the replay if the defensive players hand actually grabbed it.
Have you ever seem a facemask called for grabbing the BACK of the helmet? Would that be an unnecessary roughness?
Targeting does not require helmet to helmet contact. Hands/arms and other body part blows to the head/neck area count also. There was fairly strong contact for the helmet to come flying off the way it did. Didn't at least one of our targeting calls this year involve non-helmet to helmet where the opposing player was going down in a similar fashion, and the defender couldn't easily avoid a collision?
Here's the relevant part (Rule 9-1-4)
"No player shall target and make forcible contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent with the helmet, forearm, hand, fist, elbow, or shoulder. The foul requires that there be at least one indicator of targeting. When in question, it is a foul."
7:45 mark- very ‘bang bang’ type play (trying to watch frame by frame on a smart phone).
-1st defender comes in, head to the side, and wraps QB with his arms and begins to spin the ILSU QB around. No targeting there.
-2nd defender comes in high and the QB is now crouching, side ways to the 2nd defender as contact is made. 2nd defender’s chest appears to makes initial contact with the QB’s left shoulder. Then the QB’s helmet appears to come into contact with the 2nd defender’s chest as the defender is going over the now falling QB. Chest, not the ‘helmet, forearm, hand, fist, elbow, or shoulder.’ Plus that doesn’t look ‘forcible’ to me. The left side/shoulder took the brunt of the blow.
Can’t see exactly (least not on a smart phone) how the helmet comes off..
Again if it was obviously ripped off then that could be a facemask or unnecessary roughness, but not targeting.
The thought of targeting never even crossed my mind. Commentators said nothing about targeting live, or after the replay. Officials no flag, nor did the replay booth call for a review. If you think that’s targeting, you might as well put a red jersey on the QB and make it 2 hand touch. Even JMU with CAA officials wouldn’t have gotten called for targeting on that.
(This post was last modified: 12-16-2019 06:04 PM by BDKJMU.)
