So our friends at gohens wonder.
http://gohens.net/boards/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=26384

Fire Bourne and King!

That gap is about to get a whole lot bigger in the next year or two. Its not just a lead over UD either. It does feed the argument we should be FBS, but so should the bizon I guess.

Most other teams will be roadbumps we occasionally stumble over if we stay FCS. Basically JMU is now what App St was in their FCS prime.

(12-09-2019 09:54 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  So our friends at gohens wonder.
http://gohens.net/boards/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=26384

“because of 2 stud Defensive Ends that are after the QB on every play

because of a Senior Transfer QB that is having a great year, a formula that has worked well for Delaware in the past

because of a Home run threat at WR..... Not a singles hitter, something lacking at Delaware for a long time

because of a Special teams return man in Amos who can take one back at any moment..... why game plan when a return man can change a game in a moment

because they always have a few Will Knight types at RB

and a Good Coach, smart coaching and superior talent is a dangerous combination“

Pretty good answer honestly.

(12-09-2019 10:38 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  That gap is about to get a whole lot bigger in the next year or two. Its not just a lead over UD either. It does feed the argument we should be FBS, but so should the bizon I guess.

Most other teams will be roadbumps we occasionally stumble over if we stay FCS. Basically JMU is now what App St was in their FCS prime.

Minus the consecutive championships and dynasty.

(12-10-2019 06:03 AM)Potomac Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 10:38 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  That gap is about to get a whole lot bigger in the next year or two. Its not just a lead over UD either. It does feed the argument we should be FBS, but so should the bizon I guess.

Most other teams will be roadbumps we occasionally stumble over if we stay FCS. Basically JMU is now what App St was in their FCS prime.

Minus the consecutive championships and dynasty.

Much closer than you think.

App St had 3 appearances and 3 victories in the title game. Dukes have 3 appearances, 2 victories and missed one victory by the thinnest of margins.

We also “skipped a year” last year, whereas App St went 3 years in a row. But win it this year and we are arguably as good or better than App St was in FCS. All the JMU resume is missing is a Michigan type FBS upset, and our VT win was in that ballpark. Maybe we should start scheduling Bama. “Anyone anytime anywhere” is the rally cry that built both the App St and ECU programs. That, and a willingness to change conferences. ECU was CUSA until recently, Indy and SoCon before that. Trace any big program like VT, and you will see a similar path up the ladder.

I’m sorry but championships talk. I’m not downplaying our program but you won’t hear me compared us to actual dynasties without the trophies to show for it.

(12-10-2019 06:56 AM)Potomac Wrote:  I’m sorry but championships talk. I’m not downplaying our program but you won’t hear me compared us to actual dynasties without the trophies to show for it.

You act like we have none. We do, and are very close to matching or exceeding App on that criteria.

If we win Friday, that will be 5 semi-final appearances in 16 years.

If we make the final, that’s four.

I’d bet only ndsu has a better record in that time frame.

Some of you all talk like a deep playoff run is a rarity. You are letting a couple losses to Colgate cloud your memory.

Even duke lost to Mercer and Lehigh the first weekend of the dance. It happens.

(12-10-2019 07:28 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  If we win Friday, that will be 5 semi-final appearances in 16 years.

If we make the final, that’s four.

I’d bet only ndsu has a better record in that time frame.

Some of you all talk like a deep playoff run is a rarity. You are letting a couple losses to Colgate cloud your memory.

Even duke lost to Mercer and Lehigh the first weekend of the dance. It happens.

Right? We could be UNH...14 straight playoff appearances with only two semifinal appearances and no semifinal wins.

(12-10-2019 07:28 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  If we win Friday, that will be 5 semi-final appearances in 16 years.

If we make the final, that’s four.

I’d bet only ndsu has a better record in that time frame.

Some of you all talk like a deep playoff run is a rarity. You are letting a couple losses to Colgate cloud your memory.

Even duke lost to Mercer and Lehigh the first weekend of the dance. It happens.

The way I look at it is if we win Friday it's 3 of 5 semi's

Or if we win the next 2 its 3 of 5 nc games.

Their thread reminds me of our basketball situation. We use to be so good at basketball, and there just does not seem to be justifiable reason we have sunk for so long. It's been longer for us in basketball, and they have at least tried in their football hires. If a coach can win at RU, it hard to explain why he is worse at UD. I really thought he would take them to a top 10-15 program immediately. They played us well his first year.

Since 2004...
2004 - Championship win
2006 - First round loss - Stupid 4pt loss to YSU
2007 - First round loss - Most heartbreaking loss ever to eventual NC champ Appy
2008 - Semifinal loss to Montana after RL got hurt and 4 TOs
2011 - Second round loss @NDSU (closest game they played all postseason)
2014 - First round loss to Liberty
2015 - Second round loss to Colgate (after 1st round bye)
2016 - Championship win (after winning @NDSU in semifinal)
2017 - Championship loss (way too many mistakes and still had a chance to win)
2018 - Second round loss to Colgate (the MH-leaving debacle)
2019 - Deep run and some projects give us the best chance to win it all

11 appearances in 16 years
5 quarterfinal appearances
4-5 semifinal appearances
3-4 championship appearances
2-3 championships

Over a 16 year period that's super impressive. Not going to take the time to compare against other top teams I can think of, but I'd think we're only behind NDSU and arguably Appy. EWU is close behind us.

(12-10-2019 06:56 AM)Potomac Wrote:  I’m sorry but championships talk. I’m not downplaying our program but you won’t hear me compared us to actual dynasties without the trophies to show for it.

Same here. We've done very well, but we haven't had a dynasty.

(12-10-2019 10:10 AM)jmufan2008 Wrote:  Since 2004...
2004 - Championship win
2006 - First round loss - Stupid 4pt loss to YSU
2007 - First round loss - Most heartbreaking loss ever to eventual NC champ Appy
2008 - Semifinal loss to Montana after RL got hurt and 4 TOs
2011 - Second round loss @NDSU (closest game they played all postseason)
2014 - First round loss to Liberty
2015 - Second round loss to Colgate (after 1st round bye)
2016 - Championship win (after winning @NDSU in semifinal)
2017 - Championship loss (way too many mistakes and still had a chance to win)
2018 - Second round loss to Colgate (the MH-leaving debacle)
2019 - Deep run and some projects give us the best chance to win it all

11 appearances in 16 years
5 quarterfinal appearances
4-5 semifinal appearances
3-4 championship appearances
2-3 championships

Over a 16 year period that's super impressive. Not going to take the time to compare against other top teams I can think of, but I'd think we're only behind NDSU and arguably Appy. EWU is close behind us.

Since 2004 this is correct. Of active FCS teams, Montana also has 2 titles and 7 appearances, but they lost in 2004, 2008, 2009. YSU has 4 titles (90’s) and 7 appearances. What they did in the 90’s was impressive.

If we win a 3rd title this year, we would be one of only 5 teams to ever do so. The other 4 are Georgia Southern, NDSU, YSU and App St.

(12-10-2019 10:44 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(12-10-2019 10:10 AM)jmufan2008 Wrote:  Since 2004...
2004 - Championship win
2006 - First round loss - Stupid 4pt loss to YSU
2007 - First round loss - Most heartbreaking loss ever to eventual NC champ Appy
2008 - Semifinal loss to Montana after RL got hurt and 4 TOs
2011 - Second round loss @NDSU (closest game they played all postseason)
2014 - First round loss to Liberty
2015 - Second round loss to Colgate (after 1st round bye)
2016 - Championship win (after winning @NDSU in semifinal)
2017 - Championship loss (way too many mistakes and still had a chance to win)
2018 - Second round loss to Colgate (the MH-leaving debacle)
2019 - Deep run and some projects give us the best chance to win it all

11 appearances in 16 years
5 quarterfinal appearances
4-5 semifinal appearances
3-4 championship appearances
2-3 championships

Over a 16 year period that's super impressive. Not going to take the time to compare against other top teams I can think of, but I'd think we're only behind NDSU and arguably Appy. EWU is close behind us.

Since 2004 this is correct. Of active FCS teams, Montana also has 2 titles and 7 appearances, but they lost in 2004, 2008, 2009. YSU has 4 titles (90’s) and 7 appearances. What they did in the 90’s was impressive.

If we win a 3rd title this year, we would be one of only 5 teams to ever do so. The other 4 are Georgia Southern, NDSU, YSU and App St.

It all comes down to coaching and creating a culture of winning. Matthews started that culture. While we only had one title during his tenure, he had some pretty great seasons ('08 still is one of my favorite teams we've had).
I do feel like we dodged a bullet with Withers. While he kept us competitive I think if he had stayed any longer it could have been disastrous to the program.
Houston was a great next step. Winning a title in year one was something very few of us saw coming.
And now Cignetti. He feels like the perfect coach at the perfect time. Calm, cool and calculated.
We hired the right way. Houston and Cignetti should be the mold for any future coach to JMU- a guy with head coaching experience that led his team to successful seasons consistently.
Do the same thing next time and the success should continue. No reason to break the mold on this and get cute.
Last thing. If we win this year, we will have three championships with three different coaches.

(12-10-2019 11:04 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  

(12-10-2019 10:44 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(12-10-2019 10:10 AM)jmufan2008 Wrote:  Since 2004...
2004 - Championship win
2006 - First round loss - Stupid 4pt loss to YSU
2007 - First round loss - Most heartbreaking loss ever to eventual NC champ Appy
2008 - Semifinal loss to Montana after RL got hurt and 4 TOs
2011 - Second round loss @NDSU (closest game they played all postseason)
2014 - First round loss to Liberty
2015 - Second round loss to Colgate (after 1st round bye)
2016 - Championship win (after winning @NDSU in semifinal)
2017 - Championship loss (way too many mistakes and still had a chance to win)
2018 - Second round loss to Colgate (the MH-leaving debacle)
2019 - Deep run and some projects give us the best chance to win it all

11 appearances in 16 years
5 quarterfinal appearances
4-5 semifinal appearances
3-4 championship appearances
2-3 championships

Over a 16 year period that's super impressive. Not going to take the time to compare against other top teams I can think of, but I'd think we're only behind NDSU and arguably Appy. EWU is close behind us.

Since 2004 this is correct. Of active FCS teams, Montana also has 2 titles and 7 appearances, but they lost in 2004, 2008, 2009. YSU has 4 titles (90’s) and 7 appearances. What they did in the 90’s was impressive.

If we win a 3rd title this year, we would be one of only 5 teams to ever do so. The other 4 are Georgia Southern, NDSU, YSU and App St.

It all comes down to coaching and creating a culture of winning. Matthews started that culture. While we only had one title during his tenure, he had some pretty great seasons ('08 still is one of my favorite teams we've had).
I do feel like we dodged a bullet with Withers. While he kept us competitive I think if he had stayed any longer it could have been disastrous to the program.
Houston was a great next step. Winning a title in year one was something very few of us saw coming.
And now Cignetti. He feels like the perfect coach at the perfect time. Calm, cool and calculated.
We hired the right way. Houston and Cignetti should be the mold for any future coach to JMU- a guy with head coaching experience that led his team to successful seasons consistently.
Do the same thing next time and the success should continue. No reason to break the mold on this and get cute.
Last thing. If we win this year, we will have three championships with three different coaches.

Your last point is the most important as it shows we have built a program and are not just a coach or a player. App State was great those 3 years, but that was the Armanti show.

(12-10-2019 10:01 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(12-10-2019 07:28 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  If we win Friday, that will be 5 semi-final appearances in 16 years.

If we make the final, that’s four.

I’d bet only ndsu has a better record in that time frame.

Some of you all talk like a deep playoff run is a rarity. You are letting a couple losses to Colgate cloud your memory.

Even duke lost to Mercer and Lehigh the first weekend of the dance. It happens.

The way I look at it is if we win Friday it's 3 of 5 semi's

Or if we win the next 2 its 3 of 5 nc games.

Their thread reminds me of our basketball situation. We use to be so good at basketball, and there just does not seem to be justifiable reason we have sunk for so long. It's been longer for us in basketball, and they have at least tried in their football hires. If a coach can win at RU, it hard to explain why he is worse at UD. I really thought he would take them to a top 10-15 program immediately. They played us well his first year.

Three of four. But yeah I don't think Rocco is that great but I am surprised he isn't doing at least a little better at UD.

A post from the UD board: "recruiting recruiting recruiting...It ain't rocket science....We need better more athletic players...That simple....

Yes, it really is that simple. Success breeds Success.

Success allows us to not only recruit FBS talent but it allows us to recruit specific talent. We need a TE, we go out and recruit a TE. We don't need to go out and find a big, athletic HS QB to play TE. We don't need to try to drive a square peg in a round hole.

Successful "lower level" programs like us are very attractive to transfers that may be 2nd or third string FBS. They work hard here and they have a reasonable opportunity to play a lot.

Unlike basketball where recruits make decisions based on who the HC is, recruits make decisions based more on position coaches and support staff such as trainers, condition coaches and less on the HC.

Modern day recruits look hard at facilities, fan support, success of other sports.

We're not a school where a recruit is expected to only play football. They are expected to get an education. These type of recruits look at the university as a place to not only play sports but to also get a education, live and play for 4 or 5 years. Mom & Dad need to feel comfortable sending their babies off on their own.

NDSU offers similar opportunities, but they also have a lot less choices for the local quality recruits to choose from. That area of the country isn't exactly a basketball "hotbed" so those good basketball players tend to travels out of state to play but if NDSU continues to build their BB program, we could see them making some noise in the future.

(12-10-2019 01:24 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  A post from the UD board: "recruiting recruiting recruiting...It ain't rocket science....We need better more athletic players...That simple....

Yes, it really is that simple. Success breeds Success.

Success allows us to not only recruit FBS talent but it allows us to recruit specific talent. We need a TE, we go out and recruit a TE. We don't need to go out and find a big, athletic HS QB to play TE. We don't need to try to drive a square peg in a round hole.

Successful "lower level" programs like us are very attractive to transfers that may be 2nd or third string FBS. They work hard here and they have a reasonable opportunity to play a lot.

Unlike basketball where recruits make decisions based on who the HC is, recruits make decisions based more on position coaches and support staff such as trainers, condition coaches and less on the HC.

Modern day recruits look hard at facilities, fan support, success of other sports.

We're not a school where a recruit is expected to only play football. They are expected to get an education. These type of recruits look at the university as a place to not only play sports but to also get a education, live and play for 4 or 5 years. Mom & Dad need to feel comfortable sending their babies off on their own.

NDSU offers similar opportunities, but they also have a lot less choices for the local quality recruits to choose from. That area of the country isn't exactly a basketball "hotbed" so those good basketball players tend to travels out of state to play but if NDSU continues to build their BB program, we could see them making some noise in the future.

Recruiting certainly is a big part of the equation, but I give more value to coaching than others.

For example - Look at what Houston did with roughly the same players as Withers. I think JMU was 3 touchdowns better under Houston than Withers. Look at the difference what Mathews got from Woods players. I think if Larranga coached our present Men's basket ball team they would easily be a to 100 team.

(12-10-2019 01:57 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(12-10-2019 01:24 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  A post from the UD board: "recruiting recruiting recruiting...It ain't rocket science....We need better more athletic players...That simple....

Yes, it really is that simple. Success breeds Success.

Success allows us to not only recruit FBS talent but it allows us to recruit specific talent. We need a TE, we go out and recruit a TE. We don't need to go out and find a big, athletic HS QB to play TE. We don't need to try to drive a square peg in a round hole.

Successful "lower level" programs like us are very attractive to transfers that may be 2nd or third string FBS. They work hard here and they have a reasonable opportunity to play a lot.

Unlike basketball where recruits make decisions based on who the HC is, recruits make decisions based more on position coaches and support staff such as trainers, condition coaches and less on the HC.

Modern day recruits look hard at facilities, fan support, success of other sports.

We're not a school where a recruit is expected to only play football. They are expected to get an education. These type of recruits look at the university as a place to not only play sports but to also get a education, live and play for 4 or 5 years. Mom & Dad need to feel comfortable sending their babies off on their own.

NDSU offers similar opportunities, but they also have a lot less choices for the local quality recruits to choose from. That area of the country isn't exactly a basketball "hotbed" so those good basketball players tend to travels out of state to play but if NDSU continues to build their BB program, we could see them making some noise in the future.

Recruiting certainly is a big part of the equation, but I give more value to coaching than others.

For example - Look at what Houston did with roughly the same players as Withers. I think JMU was 3 touchdowns better under Houston than Withers. Look at the difference what Mathews got from Woods players. I think if Larranga coached our present Men's basket ball team they would easily be a to 100 team.

It's like the chicken and the egg thing (pun intended) Does a good football coach make bad players good or do good football players make bad coaches appear better than the are?

With football I think it's 70% talent and 30% coaching. Basketball it's like 80% players and 20% coaching. We could hire Coach K this week to take over for Coach Rowe and we still aren't winning a NCAAT game. Changing culture doesn't happen over night.