(11-22-2019 10:11 AM)Zorch Wrote:  

(11-22-2019 09:29 AM)nj alum Wrote:  ....Attractiveness of home schedule is an issue. ......

The 2020 home schedule is not attractive. ........

I agree with NJ Alum and Zablenoise on many of their points -- but the two lines above can NOT be rectified as long as we are in the CAA. Four of the five home games consist of CAA brethren and if it just so happens that some/many of those teams are from the north and without historical rivalries with the Tribe then that is the situation that we have to live with.

I actually like playing New Hampshire. Stony Brook has been a good team the last few years (better than us) and Albany look like they are on the upswing. Nova and Delaware (and JMU and Richmond) should be "automatics". Which leaves Rhode Island, Maine, Elon, and Towson as the teams that I could take or leave (but, even so, I wouldn't necessarily kick them out of the league; who would we replace them with? Furman and Wofford are the only ones to spring to mind immediately).

Anyway, conference affiliation is a topic for another thread. As long as we are in the CAA then these are the teams that will be coming to Zable.

Let’s be clear ... as a football fan ... I have no problems with these schools. The games are competitive.

This is about the casual fan.

The Patriot schools are not “a draw”. The northern CAA schools are not “a draw”.

From W&M’s perspective only, we need to be playing JMU, Delaware, Richmond, and Nova on an annual basis. I get that there’s lots of factors involved here, but that is the reality. Those four schools, and W&M, are the heart of the league.

The CAA needs to go back to two divisions of six. The four schools mentioned above, plus W&M and Elon, need to be in one division, and the other six need to be in the other division (Maine, UNH, URI, Albany, SB, Towson).

In its heyday, that’s how the CAA was basically set up, and it needs to return to that.

How many "casual fans" attend W&M football games? Not many from what I've seen. Weather factors into attendance more than opponents. Time factors into it more, too.

Win games, play only in nice weather, and play at the optimal time and that'll put butts in seats.

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(11-22-2019 10:39 AM)Tribal Wrote:  How many "casual fans" attend W&M football games? Not many from what I've seen. Weather factors into attendance more than opponents. Time factors into it more, too.

Win games, play only in nice weather, and play at the optimal time and that'll put butts in seats.

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You’ve made my point. Weather, time, and ID of the opponent affects the casual fan. W&M had thousands of casual fans this year who did not show up to see two Patriot schools, URI, and Towson ... ironically Tribe won three of those games .... so winning is not the cure-all ... it also depends on who you beat.

Game experience attracts the casual fan. We don’t have that (yet).


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(11-22-2019 11:00 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Game experience attracts the casual fan. We don’t have that (yet).

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I'm probably showing my age, but I'll show up to watch a good football game regardless of whether they have video this or amplified that or $10 beers or performing seals or whatever.

(11-22-2019 04:45 PM)Blow Gym rat Wrote:  

(11-22-2019 11:00 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Game experience attracts the casual fan. We don’t have that (yet).

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I'm probably showing my age, but I'll show up to watch a good football game regardless of whether they have video this or amplified that or $10 beers or performing seals or whatever.

I was with you right up until the performing seals. I'll pay extra for that.

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(11-22-2019 10:33 AM)nj alum Wrote:  

(11-22-2019 10:11 AM)Zorch Wrote:  

(11-22-2019 09:29 AM)nj alum Wrote:  ....Attractiveness of home schedule is an issue. ......

The 2020 home schedule is not attractive. ........

I agree with NJ Alum and Zablenoise on many of their points -- but the two lines above can NOT be rectified as long as we are in the CAA. Four of the five home games consist of CAA brethren and if it just so happens that some/many of those teams are from the north and without historical rivalries with the Tribe then that is the situation that we have to live with.

I actually like playing New Hampshire. Stony Brook has been a good team the last few years (better than us) and Albany look like they are on the upswing. Nova and Delaware (and JMU and Richmond) should be "automatics". Which leaves Rhode Island, Maine, Elon, and Towson as the teams that I could take or leave (but, even so, I wouldn't necessarily kick them out of the league; who would we replace them with? Furman and Wofford are the only ones to spring to mind immediately).

Anyway, conference affiliation is a topic for another thread. As long as we are in the CAA then these are the teams that will be coming to Zable.

Let’s be clear ... as a football fan ... I have no problems with these schools. The games are competitive.

This is about the casual fan.

The Patriot schools are not “a draw”. The northern CAA schools are not “a draw”.

From W&M’s perspective only, we need to be playing JMU, Delaware, Richmond, and Nova on an annual basis. I get that there’s lots of factors involved here, but that is the reality. Those four schools, and W&M, are the heart of the league.

The CAA needs to go back to two divisions of six. The four schools mentioned above, plus W&M and Elon, need to be in one division, and the other six need to be in the other division (Maine, UNH, URI, Albany, SB, Towson).

In its heyday, that’s how the CAA was basically set up, and it needs to return to that.

I still don't think your point is covering anything new. We have JMU, UR, either Delaware/Villanova and Elon (which I think will only grow in interest and visiting fans as time goes on) every year. There are no other "draws" - frankly it's tough to call Villanova a draw. They don't bring any more fans than Maine or UNH.

Other than these teams, there are no draws at FCS that I know of. Maybe Harvard, VMI or Yale. So not sure what your beef is or what you expect to be done.

The point on Patriot is also irrelavant. We had 10,177 for the opener with Lafayette. I agree it wasn't about Lafayette, it was just the opening game. Still, that crowd count was about 1,000 more than other recent openers against Hampton or Norfolk State.

So, we have been playing in this conference near 25 years. Every year we have at least two northern CAA teams on the schedule. If they are Homecoming or Parents Weekend, no problem. It really doesn't make any difference. If we win, we draw. We know people will show up for three games a year, regardless of opponent. It's always been that way.

The schedule looks very normal to me.

Let’s look at the home schedule in the years where we play Richmond at home:

2020- Colgate, Elon, Albany, SB
2018- Colgate, Albany, Maine
2016- Norfolk, Elon, Delaware, Maine
2014- Norfolk, Lafayette, Nova, Delaware, Elon
2012- Lafayette, Delaware, Ga. St., Maine
2010- VMI, Nova, URI, Delaware
2008- VMI, Norfolk, Nova, URI, Northeastern
2006- Maine, VMI, Hofstra, Nova
2004- VMI, Northeastern, URI, Nova
2002- VMI, Delaware, Northeastern, URI
2000- VMI, URI, Delaware, Northeastern
1997- Hampton, BU, JMU, Nova
1995- JMU, URI, Penn, Nova
1993- UNH, Harvard, Nova, JMU,
1991- Delaware, JMU, Citadel, Samford

Our home schedule is slowly bleeding away in terms of attractiveness.

(11-22-2019 04:45 PM)Blow Gym rat Wrote:  

(11-22-2019 11:00 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Game experience attracts the casual fan. We don’t have that (yet).

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I'm probably showing my age, but I'll show up to watch a good football game regardless of whether they have video this or amplified that or $10 beers or performing seals or whatever.

I wouldn't consider you a casual fan then. I'm talking about a family that says: "Hey, it's a nice day, let's go to the football game." They probably don't know any of the players, but the kids will have fun, etc. This is how low minor league baseball works. They actually have to put a product out there that people will have fun seeing.

We have a decent stadium now that we've redone the home side. I know that nobody goes there, but the Tribe Tavern is a decent idea. Better food would be a start. Interactive stuff with the Griffen and the children could help. Give aways. Face painting. Someone should have better ideas than me, but maybe they don't work in the Athletic Department.

(11-22-2019 10:30 AM)Tribe1693 Wrote:  I'd like it to go back to two-6 team divisions where you play the other 5 in your division every year and 3 of the other 6 on a rotational basis. Slight challenge with Elon being in the conference bumps Villanova to the "other division" but really no other way around it that I see. I'm sure they'd (understandably) fight against it. Doubt it ever happens but would like it.

It can still work. The ACC has ‘permanent’ cross-division opponents. UNC always plays NC State. Duke always plays Wake Forest.

They have the jumping tent for kids the past two years for kids and there was face paining at a couple of games.

(11-22-2019 08:42 PM)nj alum Wrote:  Let’s look at the home schedule in the years where we play Richmond at home:

2020- Colgate, Elon, Albany, SB
2018- Colgate, Albany, Maine
2016- Norfolk, Elon, Delaware, Maine
2014- Norfolk, Lafayette, Nova, Delaware, Elon
2012- Lafayette, Delaware, Ga. St., Maine
2010- VMI, Nova, URI, Delaware
2008- VMI, Norfolk, Nova, URI, Northeastern
2006- Maine, VMI, Hofstra, Nova
2004- VMI, Northeastern, URI, Nova
2002- VMI, Delaware, Northeastern, URI
2000- VMI, URI, Delaware, Northeastern
1997- Hampton, BU, JMU, Nova
1995- JMU, URI, Penn, Nova
1993- UNH, Harvard, Nova, JMU,
1991- Delaware, JMU, Citadel, Samford

Our home schedule is slowly bleeding away in terms of attractiveness.

Sorry, I'm just not seeing some sudden change in pattern here. Looks very consistent. The only difference is we now have JMU and Delaware at home on same year (which will be 2021).

(11-23-2019 08:05 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(11-22-2019 08:42 PM)nj alum Wrote:  Let’s look at the home schedule in the years where we play Richmond at home:

2020- Colgate, Elon, Albany, SB
2018- Colgate, Albany, Maine
2016- Norfolk, Elon, Delaware, Maine
2014- Norfolk, Lafayette, Nova, Delaware, Elon
2012- Lafayette, Delaware, Ga. St., Maine
2010- VMI, Nova, URI, Delaware
2008- VMI, Norfolk, Nova, URI, Northeastern
2006- Maine, VMI, Hofstra, Nova
2004- VMI, Northeastern, URI, Nova
2002- VMI, Delaware, Northeastern, URI
2000- VMI, URI, Delaware, Northeastern
1997- Hampton, BU, JMU, Nova
1995- JMU, URI, Penn, Nova
1993- UNH, Harvard, Nova, JMU,
1991- Delaware, JMU, Citadel, Samford

Our home schedule is slowly bleeding away in terms of attractiveness.

Sorry, I'm just not seeing some sudden change in pattern here. Looks very consistent. The only difference is we now have JMU and Delaware at home on same year (which will be 2021).

No Ivys, no VMI, no Hofstra and Northeastern that would have been all sports rivalries.

The CAA having football-only schools is the problem. If we always played Albany and StonyBrook etc in both Bball and Football, fans would be more familiar and have more interest. When we only see a school once every other year (or worse) in a single sport, of course they seem blah. P5 split and major conference realignment cant happen soon enough. I hope we are positioned to get into a decent grouping.

Winning helps put butts in the seat but the weather is top dog. Agree having more games with our natural rivals is important but as the older fan base ages it is more important to cultivate the under age 30-35 fan.

(11-23-2019 09:34 AM)nogretheogre Wrote:  The CAA having football-only schools is the problem. If we always played Albany and StonyBrook etc in both Bball and Football, fans would be more familiar and have more interest. When we only see a school once every other year (or worse) in a single sport, of course they seem blah. P5 split and major conference realignment cant happen soon enough. I hope we are positioned to get into a decent grouping.

Excellent point about the football only schools.

(11-22-2019 08:42 PM)nj alum Wrote:  Let’s look at the home schedule in the years where we play Richmond at home:

2020- Colgate, Elon, Albany, SB
2018- Colgate, Albany, Maine
2016- Norfolk, Elon, Delaware, Maine
2014- Norfolk, Lafayette, Nova, Delaware, Elon
2012- Lafayette, Delaware, Ga. St., Maine
2010- VMI, Nova, URI, Delaware
2008- VMI, Norfolk, Nova, URI, Northeastern
2006- Maine, VMI, Hofstra, Nova
2004- VMI, Northeastern, URI, Nova
2002- VMI, Delaware, Northeastern, URI
2000- VMI, URI, Delaware, Northeastern
1997- Hampton, BU, JMU, Nova
1995- JMU, URI, Penn, Nova
1993- UNH, Harvard, Nova, JMU,
1991- Delaware, JMU, Citadel, Samford

Our home schedule is slowly bleeding away in terms of attractiveness.

What was the schedule the years we didn't play Richmond? Looks like we had years with JMU, Delaware, and Richmond all at home - that'd be great for that year, but would the off years be Hofstra, Boston, URI, Nova, VMI? That's not as strong

I’m not analyzing schedules in the years where we are at Richmond.

This whole thing started when I voiced the opinion that next year’s home schedule (excepting the Richmond home game) is not attractive, and voiced a secondary opinion that same appears to be trending in that direction.

We need to play four schools every year, and split the home games evenly every year. That’s in our best interests. If the CAA can’t do that ...

(11-23-2019 12:10 PM)nj alum Wrote:  I’m not analyzing schedules in the years where we are at Richmond.

This whole thing started when I voiced the opinion that next year’s home schedule (excepting the Richmond home game) is not attractive, and voiced a secondary opinion that same appears to be trending in that direction.

We need to play four schools every year, and split the home games evenly every year. That’s in our best interests. If the CAA can’t do that ...

I guess my point was that Richmond/JMU are our most attractive home games. We had the advantage of getting them both in the same year back in the 90s, so obviously those schedules will look great, but I don't think that's something we should want now. I don't really think there's any other matchup, save maybe Delaware, that is that attractive. I'm not even sure how much your average fan cares about playing an Ivy league school, is Brown really more of a draw than Lehigh?

(11-22-2019 08:42 PM)nj alum Wrote:  Let’s look at the home schedule in the years where we play Richmond at home:

2020- Colgate, Elon, Albany, SB
2018- Colgate, Albany, Maine
2016- Norfolk, Elon, Delaware, Maine
2014- Norfolk, Lafayette, Nova, Delaware, Elon
2012- Lafayette, Delaware, Ga. St., Maine
2010- VMI, Nova, URI, Delaware
2008- VMI, Norfolk, Nova, URI, Northeastern
2006- Maine, VMI, Hofstra, Nova
2004- VMI, Northeastern, URI, Nova
2002- VMI, Delaware, Northeastern, URI
2000- VMI, URI, Delaware, Northeastern
1997- Hampton, BU, JMU, Nova
1995- JMU, URI, Penn, Nova
1993- UNH, Harvard, Nova, JMU,
1991- Delaware, JMU, Citadel, Samford

Our home schedule is slowly bleeding away in terms of attractiveness.

Share the opinion regarding decline in attractiveness of schedule but am also witting that attractiveness is subjective. What is attractive to someone who graduated in 1970’s and fondly remembers games from the previous century may easily be different than what is attractive to someone graduating in 2020 and who views esports as more entertaining than real world spectator sports. That said, would wager that Colgate, Elon, Albany, and Stoney Brook weren’t on anyone’s wish list.

Don’t have a clue as to what an attractive matchup would be for today’s grads, and wonder whether College leadership does either. Maybe there is a data driven scheduling process. Maybe the program has few options beyond fishing for what’s left in the pond. Hope the latter isn’t the case. Some ideas that occur to one fan:

Competing in a conference with 17 members playing football and/or basketball complicates formation of lasting rivalries. As long as this status quo is the preferred option for the bulk of W&M scheduling and W&M’s tenure provides no conference scheduling benefits, the OOC has to be the place where additional attractiveness is sought.

Unless the College has data indicating otherwise, it might be that institutional name recognition is as important as football prowess. Would note that posters on other threads often contend that the CAA is the SEC of FCS. Interestingly, SEC members primarily schedule down with their OOC. In a down CAA year, W&M still played three ranked teams in addition to UVA and ECU.

Suspect that if the Ivys could be scheduled they would be. Would continue to try. Ditto for VMI and maybe Georgetown. The College shouldn’t waste a home date on another Patriot League team unless it’s Parents’ Day. The College should consider scheduling Hampton every year, even if it meant going to a seven game conference schedule.

Touchdown Green and Gold noted on another thread that the only fans attending away games are the players’ families. It may be time to contemplate destination attractiveness and distance in scheduling. The Citadel and Charleston could fall in this category. There should be others.