(11-21-2019 01:34 PM)Michigan Rocket Wrote:  I do not condone the firing of Coach Candle. It would kill the budget of UT Athletics. I do wish we could get some Top Notch Defensive Coaches. Thank God we still have a young team and our cupboards aren't bare.

Not too many people think the talent is the problem.

Talent is not the problem. Problem is a coaching staff not addressing issues that have been repeating since the beginning of the season. Clock management, play calling, undisciplined penalties etc. When you hire an inexperienced person, everyone will accept mistakes as part of the growing process. Continuing to make the same mistakes over and over is the issue. In no other profession or job would that be tolerated. That behavior by an employee displays immense arrogance or incompetence.

Right. Talent is not the problem. All I'm saying is we have the talent, now get the coordinators. A good leader surrounds himself with those who can. We have those who cannot.

Of note...Mike O'Brien has never fired a football coach as an athletic director.

(11-21-2019 12:45 PM)therockets046 Wrote:  I tell ya, whenever Rocket Athletics gets on the Socials and post their obligatory “final score: we lost, boo-hiss, tune in again next week”, and the followers there make replies which echo the sentiments reflected in this topic here—especially the original post. And those posts are constantly being “liked” by people who are obviously parents or relatives of actual players on the team…those are some really bad optics for the program. Could be a sign of the times but I’ve never seen anything like that. Course I can’t recall a bigger disappointment of a team in the almost 30 years I’ve been following Rocket Football, so I’ll insist it’s mainly that.

Toledo Football and Rocket Athletics on Twitter must be hiding those posts (option now available to users on Twitter) or have deleted post game posts as I can not see any such thread of replies by fans currently showing on their Twitter feeds.

(11-21-2019 01:34 PM)Michigan Rocket Wrote:  I do not condone the firing of Coach Candle. It would kill the budget of UT Athletics. I do wish we could get some Top Notch Defensive Coaches. Thank God we still have a young team and our cupboards aren't bare.

"It would kill the budget of UT Athletics"

In reality UT Athletics doesn't even have a budget, such a cost would not even come from them or "impact" their operations, as their budget is supported by student fees and transfer from the UT operating budget-which is where such funds would have to come from.

coaching is clearly the problem, but any post season assessment also needs to take a close look at recruiting and current talent (and depth) on this team, I am not totally convinced that this team is as talented as we may think, and I don't care what the HS recruitment class and players rankings were as that's far from a perfect system, especially in evaluating 2 and 3 star players.

(11-21-2019 04:19 PM)PaulJ Wrote:  coaching is clearly the problem, but any post season assessment also needs to take a close look at recruiting and current talent (and depth) on this team, I am not totally convinced that this team is as talented as we may think, and I don't care what the HS recruitment class and players rankings were as that's far from a perfect system, especially in evaluating 2 and 3 star players.

The problem with evaluating our talent is that half of the coaching staff's job is to further develop a player when he comes into the program. That's why it is hard to evaluate recruiting classes and there are always debates about it.

My point is that we do have some good talent on this team and they would be even better if the coaching staff was developing them to their full potential.

Oh I totally agree about the issues associated with coaches recruiting and developing players to their full potential, was just pointing out that a full post-season assessment should also take close look at talent level with players returning. And there are always debates around any HS recruitment class that starts day rankings are posted, its not the perfect system of science some would make it out to (for any school, conference, year etc...). Its also very possible that the talent (especially depth) is not what we think it is-and I am not letting the coaches off the hook - just pointing out problems may be deeper, hard to develop a player who lacks basic skills and talent to start with, that's just a question I think should also be examined.

I want some of what most of you all are smoking. The disconnect is startling.

We have not made a voluntary coaching change since we fired Stutz. Let that sink in.

(11-21-2019 08:15 PM)Carolina Rocket Wrote:  We have not made a voluntary coaching change since we fired Stutz. Let that sink in.

Had there been even a suggestion of a need? Beckman's issues never hit while he was here, I don't think.

The issue I think is more an AD giving a contract that makes it near impossible to change coaches or apparently to encourage a coach to make tough decisions about staff. This is in whose ballpark? Dr. Gaber?

From Coach Candle's perspective as I IMAGINE it, he's still a marketble commodity. He has TWO incomes from the university coming into his household. A firing is a win-win that will put him somewhere higher profile on a near equal salary as an Assistant, after his agent retains as much UT money as possible under that condition. But I prefer to doubt he's not intentionally trying to get fired.

His not improving, will hit his marketability. If someone is not willing to change, the best way to "get rid" of someone is to find them a desirable or less troublesome place to go before they lose that marketability. In his situation, that means finding a place for two people to go.

Let's rather hope he chooses to make the tough decisions on his own.

you guys are all idiots this is about what I expected this year once Mitch went down. They are not going to fire a guy who won the mac title 2 years ago. He is only going if some one pays him more to leave and I don't see that happening. As far as his assistants especially those on d I would have my resumes out there except for Poteat

(11-21-2019 11:02 PM)rocketpaul Wrote:  you guys are all idiots this is about what I expected this year once Mitch went down. They are not going to fire a guy who won the mac title 2 years ago. He is only going if some one pays him more to leave and I don't see that happening. As far as his assistants especially those on d I would have my resumes out there except for Poteat

Yeah he has a title. That saves your job. As it should.

(11-21-2019 11:02 PM)rocketpaul Wrote:  you guys are all idiots

Well most of them are UToledo grads so..... if you say so.

At least Candle won a MACC. I'm sort of okay with the contract extension because of that but I would prefer a big bonus for championships rather than contract extensions. let's face it, if the coach is successful, Big Dollar U is going to steal him/her away and no contract extension is going to prevent that. So many fans have said that Graber is pro-athletics. It is nice not having athletes showing up on police blotters but is this her idea of excellence? UT athletics just seems stale to me right now. I wish there was something to be excited about.

(11-21-2019 08:31 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(11-21-2019 08:15 PM)Carolina Rocket Wrote:  We have not made a voluntary coaching change since we fired Stutz. Let that sink in.

Had there been even a suggestion of a need? Beckman's issues never hit while he was here, I don't think.

The issue I think is more an AD giving a contract that makes it near impossible to change coaches or apparently to encourage a coach to make tough decisions about staff. This is in whose ballpark? Dr. Gaber?

From Coach Candle's perspective as I IMAGINE it, he's still a marketble commodity. He has TWO incomes from the university coming into his household. A firing is a win-win that will put him somewhere higher profile on a near equal salary as an Assistant, after his agent retains as much UT money as possible under that condition. But I prefer to doubt he's not intentionally trying to get fired.

His not improving, will hit his marketability. If someone is not willing to change, the best way to "get rid" of someone is to find them a desirable or less troublesome place to go before they lose that marketability. In his situation, that means finding a place for two people to go.

Let's rather hope he chooses to make the tough decisions on his own.

There was the Kyle Cameron lawsuit.

(11-21-2019 08:31 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(11-21-2019 08:15 PM)Carolina Rocket Wrote:  We have not made a voluntary coaching change since we fired Stutz. Let that sink in.

Had there been even a suggestion of a need? Beckman's issues never hit while he was here, I don't think.

My point was kind of in the other direction perhaps. We've had good coaching. We've had some challenging seasons, but this is the first time I feel like I'm watching StutzBall again. I think Beckman and Campbell did a good job with what they had. A great chef in a kitchen full of microwaves and electric burners can only do so much. Candle started off great too. So did Stutz. The similarities in arcs is concerning. Maybe it's time to cut bait before we hit another 3-9...

(11-22-2019 07:14 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(11-21-2019 08:31 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(11-21-2019 08:15 PM)Carolina Rocket Wrote:  We have not made a voluntary coaching change since we fired Stutz. Let that sink in.

Had there been even a suggestion of a need? Beckman's issues never hit while he was here, I don't think.

There was the Kyle Cameron lawsuit.

I was thinking Beckman had already moved on before that was brought. Something ever come of it?

I don' think it is the W-L record that is so concerning about Candle right now - it is the fact that we are so bad on defense. That is a continuing theme for at least the last 3 years. We won in 2017 with an offense that was nearly impossible to stop by the rest of the MAC. It had to be because we proved we could not stop anyone either. Candle has not addressed that shortcoming - which most believe is just a bad scheme we run with this "bend, don't break" defense. I guess that is fine if your definition of not breaking is keeping the other team under 60 points. Clock management, which first showed up in the bowl game in Hunt's senior season, is just another indication of chaos on the sidelines at critical times. Also, it seems we are communicating from the "press box" via carrier pigeon to get plays called. I can at least attribute that to the 3rd string QB not getting enough reps in practice, but how long does it take to scream "spike the ball?"