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W&M Men's Basketball vs JMU Men's Basketball
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Dukester Offline
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Post: #1
W&M Men's Basketball vs JMU Men's Basketball
I know there is frequent talk by some it frequently can take about 7 years for a new Men's basketball coach to gain traction. Additionally it was even mentioned during the summer how could people talk about changing our basketball coach after the train wreck it caused to the W&M program with all the players leaving.

Well.....

Shaver's gone, because expectations were higher
Some players left.....

They are 3-1 without playing their first home game. Their one loss was at 3-0 Oklahoma, but had the lead for all but about 2 minutes of the second half last night. Watching the game, they ran a well coached offense.

Our JMU game thread versus UVA had 182 posts.

Their thread last night versus Oklahoma had 201 posts. (201 post on a game thread at W&M 04-jawdrop )

They are certainly excited about their team.

Not sure if it will last, but their new coach's first 4 games are probably better than any four game period we have had in the last 4 years.

I know, patience Dukester..........

Certainly it has to be easier for a coach to win at JMU.

We need to stop making excuses.

And please Dukeman don't post on this thread. 03-shhhh
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2019 02:23 PM by Dukester.)
11-19-2019 02:22 PM
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Dukes84 Offline
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RE: W&M Men's Basketball vs JMU Men's Basketball
Dukester --

If Rowe is retained, which team -- JMU or W&M -- will have a better record next season (2020-21)?
11-19-2019 02:54 PM
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Deez Nuts Online
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RE: W&M Men's Basketball vs JMU Men's Basketball
(11-19-2019 02:54 PM)Dukes84 Wrote:  Dukester --

If Rowe is retained, which team -- JMU or W&M -- will have a better record next season (2020-21)?

If Rowe is retained it's because he's the GOAT - so obv JMU would be the better team.
11-19-2019 03:20 PM
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Dukester Offline
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RE: W&M Men's Basketball vs JMU Men's Basketball
(11-19-2019 02:54 PM)Dukes84 Wrote:  Dukester --

If Rowe is retained, which team -- JMU or W&M -- will have a better record next season (2020-21)?


W&M will lose some key seniors, and we won't. We bring back all our key players. We will walk into a new Arena. They will retain an updated Kaplin arena. It should be a no brainer, but I'm not that confident JMU would be the better team.

'84 - Did you watch the W&M game last night? Did they appeared to be well coached? Do you walk away from JMU games feeling we are well coached?
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2019 03:22 PM by Dukester.)
11-19-2019 03:22 PM
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Post: #5
RE: W&M Men's Basketball vs JMU Men's Basketball
(11-19-2019 02:54 PM)Dukes84 Wrote:  Dukester --

If Rowe is retained, which team -- JMU or W&M -- will have a better record next season (2020-21)?

Is W&M now the standard by which we judge the men's BB program? That new arena has a good chance of ending up as a meat locker for the local poultry industry.
11-19-2019 04:26 PM
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Dukester Offline
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RE: W&M Men's Basketball vs JMU Men's Basketball
(11-19-2019 04:26 PM)2Buck Wrote:  
(11-19-2019 02:54 PM)Dukes84 Wrote:  Dukester --

If Rowe is retained, which team -- JMU or W&M -- will have a better record next season (2020-21)?

Is W&M now the standard by which we judge the men's BB program? That new arena has a good chance of ending up as a meat locker for the local poultry industry.

Standard?

I'd say the next step up.
11-19-2019 04:32 PM
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Dukes84 Offline
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RE: W&M Men's Basketball vs JMU Men's Basketball
(11-19-2019 03:22 PM)Dukester Wrote:  
(11-19-2019 02:54 PM)Dukes84 Wrote:  Dukester --

If Rowe is retained, which team -- JMU or W&M -- will have a better record next season (2020-21)?


W&M will lose some key seniors, and we won't. We bring back all our key players. We will walk into a new Arena. They will retain an updated Kaplin arena. It should be a no brainer, but I'm not that confident JMU would be the better team.

'84 - Did you watch the W&M game last night? Did they appeared to be well coached? Do you walk away from JMU games feeling we are well coached?

Dukester --

I did not watch the W&M game, but I followed the moves that W&M made closely after firing Shaver. And I read up on his replacement and thought he would be good in time. I also know that for this season, they have Nathan Knight (saw him in at least one top 50 ranking of players), who is a legit NBA prospect; a 7 foot fifth year Big Ten transfer that just won CAA player of the week; and I believe two other grad transfers in their starting line-up. All of those four players will be gone after this season. I said before the season that I thought that W&M, Towson and DE were all undervalued. So far, I've been correct on that and DE has yet to add the Villanova transfer (Painter, brother of JMU TE) until next month. Next season, therefore, and perhaps the one after, W&M will be taking their lumps, while JMU could be loaded next year.

Rowe's greatest strength is his ability to recognize talent, recruit talent and then build relationships with his players. I've advocated that he hire better assistants to help him with the X's and O's. He's seemingly done that, perhaps at the prompting of the JMU Admin. In fact, he's added three new coaches to his staff. On top of that, 7 of the 13 players on the roster are technically freshman, plus there's one sophomore. Are they where they need to be at this point? No, but I understand that the changes will take time and will require adjustment. On top of that, they've got a couple of post players that are injured.

To be perfectly honest, I don't think their offensive philosophy is sustainable. And on defense, they're getting eaten up inside. Having said that, I believe they will adjust and I've seen growth and improvement, especially on Saturday night. I'm hoping that they will continue to make rapid improvement and that they will be a very competitive team later in the season.

Playing UVA, Mason and ODU on the road is not an easy task. All three of those teams are coached by excellent coaches. Mason's faithful wanted Paulsen fired a year ago after he got out to an 0-3 start. Instead the administration stood by him and he was extended, I believe, and they turned their season around after that. In any event, you can see how well coached his team is, especially on the defensive side of the ball. And I do think he's improved his talent level, with this year's team having the most talent under his tenure. Is JMU's talent better? I don't know. JMU is perhaps more athletic, but Mason's players are very skilled. Paulsen has also been a head coach for many years and at different levels. That gave him a chance to develop. Rowe is a novice, by comparison.

I would suggest letting the season play out and then assessing at the end. Too early to make too many judgments at this point. I do like the freshman class, though. 01-ncaabbs
11-19-2019 04:48 PM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #8
RE: W&M Men's Basketball vs JMU Men's Basketball
Why can’t W&M be good in hoops and take the next level? Sure they have different academic requirements than most but in a way that’s a differentiator. I can see them being a very good transfer destination due to their academics and they have been in the past. They also have recruited well and had a lot of talent come through Williamsburg - pro level athletes.

It’s kind of irrelevant to JMU- JMU could and should be good at basketball but there is no shame with W&M being a long time conference rival and peer. If anything the success that W&M Delaware and Towson have as CAA all sports members in men’s hoops will raise JMUs level and force those schools to be more competitive with the top of the league non football schools.

It should be a challenging Conference this year- I hope the depth and wins continue in the OpC because it will only help JMU in terms of Opponent RPI and measuring stick when we get to the conference season.

Kudos to the W&M coach on such a nice start- the Mason coach is looking better and better as things progress. W&M’s guy is from his coaching tree.
11-19-2019 05:09 PM
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Dukester Offline
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RE: W&M Men's Basketball vs JMU Men's Basketball
(11-19-2019 04:48 PM)Dukes84 Wrote:  
(11-19-2019 03:22 PM)Dukester Wrote:  
(11-19-2019 02:54 PM)Dukes84 Wrote:  Dukester --

If Rowe is retained, which team -- JMU or W&M -- will have a better record next season (2020-21)?


W&M will lose some key seniors, and we won't. We bring back all our key players. We will walk into a new Arena. They will retain an updated Kaplin arena. It should be a no brainer, but I'm not that confident JMU would be the better team.

'84 - Did you watch the W&M game last night? Did they appeared to be well coached? Do you walk away from JMU games feeling we are well coached?

Dukester --

I did not watch the W&M game, but I followed the moves that W&M made closely after firing Shaver. And I read up on his replacement and thought he would be good in time. I also know that for this season, they have Nathan Knight (saw him in at least one top 50 ranking of players), who is a legit NBA prospect; a 7 foot fifth year Big Ten transfer that just won CAA player of the week; and I believe two other grad transfers in their starting line-up. All of those four players will be gone after this season. I said before the season that I thought that W&M, Towson and DE were all undervalued. So far, I've been correct on that and DE has yet to add the Villanova transfer (Painter, brother of JMU TE) until next month. Next season, therefore, and perhaps the one after, W&M will be taking their lumps, while JMU could be loaded next year.

Rowe's greatest strength is his ability to recognize talent, recruit talent and then build relationships with his players. I've advocated that he hire better assistants to help him with the X's and O's. He's seemingly done that, perhaps at the prompting of the JMU Admin. In fact, he's added three new coaches to his staff. On top of that, 7 of the 13 players on the roster are technically freshman, plus there's one sophomore. Are they where they need to be at this point? No, but I understand that the changes will take time and will require adjustment. On top of that, they've got a couple of post players that are injured.

To be perfectly honest, I don't think their offensive philosophy is sustainable. And on defense, they're getting eaten up inside. Having said that, I believe they will adjust and I've seen growth and improvement, especially on Saturday night. I'm hoping that they will continue to make rapid improvement and that they will be a very competitive team later in the season.

Playing UVA, Mason and ODU on the road is not an easy task. All three of those teams are coached by excellent coaches. Mason's faithful wanted Paulsen fired a year ago after he got out to an 0-3 start. Instead the administration stood by him and he was extended, I believe, and they turned their season around after that. In any event, you can see how well coached his team is, especially on the defensive side of the ball. And I do think he's improved his talent level, with this year's team having the most talent under his tenure. Is JMU's talent better? I don't know. JMU is perhaps more athletic, but Mason's players are very skilled. Paulsen has also been a head coach for many years and at different levels. That gave him a chance to develop. Rowe is a novice, by comparison.

I would suggest letting the season play out and then assessing at the end. Too early to make too many judgments at this point. I do like the freshman class, though. 01-ncaabbs

I like the freshman class, and talent as well. Share your belief that Lou is top assistant and recruiter. Don't know another coach that is more loyal to the purple and gold. Lou = Class

I have noticed Lou allowing others to draw up the plays during timeouts. I like Lou a lot, but think he was put in a position to fail.

I see so many things from general coaching standpoint that are concerning.
11-19-2019 05:31 PM
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RE: W&M Men's Basketball vs JMU Men's Basketball
(11-19-2019 05:09 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Why can’t W&M be good in hoops and take the next level? Sure they have different academic requirements than most but in a way that’s a differentiator. I can see them being a very good transfer destination due to their academics and they have been in the past. They also have recruited well and had a lot of talent come through Williamsburg - pro level athletes.

It’s kind of irrelevant to JMU- JMU could and should be good at basketball but there is no shame with W&M being a long time conference rival and peer. If anything the success that W&M Delaware and Towson have as CAA all sports members in men’s hoops will raise JMUs level and force those schools to be more competitive with the top of the league non football schools.

It should be a challenging Conference this year- I hope the depth and wins continue in the OpC because it will only help JMU in terms of Opponent RPI and measuring stick when we get to the conference season.

Kudos to the W&M coach on such a nice start- the Mason coach is looking better and better as things progress. W&M’s guy is from his coaching tree.

Please give me a break on the academic requirements angle......that just does not hold water really anywhere. You are only talking about 13 scholarships......no school takes 13 unqualified kids, but every school is will to take a risk on a few that otherwise would not get into that school on their academic record and test scores alone. W&M is no different than any other school on this front and that applies to both football and bball. I know kids that have gotten football offers that don't fit their academic profile.
11-20-2019 10:32 AM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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RE: W&M Men's Basketball vs JMU Men's Basketball
(11-20-2019 10:32 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  
(11-19-2019 05:09 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Why can’t W&M be good in hoops and take the next level? Sure they have different academic requirements than most but in a way that’s a differentiator. I can see them being a very good transfer destination due to their academics and they have been in the past. They also have recruited well and had a lot of talent come through Williamsburg - pro level athletes.

It’s kind of irrelevant to JMU- JMU could and should be good at basketball but there is no shame with W&M being a long time conference rival and peer. If anything the success that W&M Delaware and Towson have as CAA all sports members in men’s hoops will raise JMUs level and force those schools to be more competitive with the top of the league non football schools.

It should be a challenging Conference this year- I hope the depth and wins continue in the OpC because it will only help JMU in terms of Opponent RPI and measuring stick when we get to the conference season.

Kudos to the W&M coach on such a nice start- the Mason coach is looking better and better as things progress. W&M’s guy is from his coaching tree.

Please give me a break on the academic requirements angle......that just does not hold water really anywhere. You are only talking about 13 scholarships......no school takes 13 unqualified kids, but every school is will to take a risk on a few that otherwise would not get into that school on their academic record and test scores alone. W&M is no different than any other school on this front and that applies to both football and bball. I know kids that have gotten football offers that don't fit their academic profile.

I think they may need to be more selective but I was saying that their academic profile gives them a potential advantage. We’ve seen both W&M and Northeastern recruit nationally I think in large part due to their academic programs. Not complaining or making this an excuse for JMU but their recruiting is going to be more regional and they don’t have the academic programs to attract a kid to attend from far away.
11-20-2019 11:16 AM
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Dukes84 Offline
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RE: W&M Men's Basketball vs JMU Men's Basketball
Dukester --

I've got another question for you: How many times has W&M beaten ODU in Norfolk?
11-21-2019 07:06 AM
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tribe_pride Online
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RE: W&M Men's Basketball vs JMU Men's Basketball
Nice win yesterday. Always nice to beat ODU.

We’ve beaten them 2 of last 4 in Norfolk and 4 straight in Williamsburg (hopefully 5 straight after this year)
11-21-2019 07:27 AM
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RE: W&M Men's Basketball vs JMU Men's Basketball
(11-20-2019 10:32 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  
(11-19-2019 05:09 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Why can’t W&M be good in hoops and take the next level? Sure they have different academic requirements than most but in a way that’s a differentiator. I can see them being a very good transfer destination due to their academics and they have been in the past. They also have recruited well and had a lot of talent come through Williamsburg - pro level athletes.

It’s kind of irrelevant to JMU- JMU could and should be good at basketball but there is no shame with W&M being a long time conference rival and peer. If anything the success that W&M Delaware and Towson have as CAA all sports members in men’s hoops will raise JMUs level and force those schools to be more competitive with the top of the league non football schools.

It should be a challenging Conference this year- I hope the depth and wins continue in the OpC because it will only help JMU in terms of Opponent RPI and measuring stick when we get to the conference season.

Kudos to the W&M coach on such a nice start- the Mason coach is looking better and better as things progress. W&M’s guy is from his coaching tree.

Please give me a break on the academic requirements angle......that just does not hold water really anywhere. You are only talking about 13 scholarships......no school takes 13 unqualified kids, but every school is will to take a risk on a few that otherwise would not get into that school on their academic record and test scores alone. W&M is no different than any other school on this front and that applies to both football and bball. I know kids that have gotten football offers that don't fit their academic profile.

I agree but I would like to add that it's one thing for an athlete to get accepted at a W&M or even Richmond. It's another thing for a student athlete at W&M or Richmond to maintain their academics. My son was somewhat familiar with an athlete that was on scholarship at Richmond, a great athlete but didn't care about school, grades and not even sure how he graduated from HS. In some remarkable way, he was still offered and accepted at U of R. He lasted a year, maybe two and ended up being dismissed or quite, simply because he wasn't capable or interested in academics.

I'm not saying the academics are easier at a school like JMU, VCU, GMU but I believe the resources we provide in helping the athletes in the classroom is much greater.

I have a lot of "respect" for W&M and even Richmond (still hate their fan base) where they seem to do well on the court/field considering they do more with less. JMU has a recruiting advantage over most of the schools I mentioned above. Athletics aside; JMU is a place where a young man or women would enjoy the college experience, socially and academically.
11-21-2019 12:00 PM
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Dukester Offline
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RE: W&M Men's Basketball vs JMU Men's Basketball
(11-21-2019 07:06 AM)Dukes84 Wrote:  Dukester --

I've got another question for you: How many times has W&M beaten ODU in Norfolk?

I have no idea, but I'm guessing based on your question not too frequently or maybe the opposite. 03-lmfao
11-21-2019 02:25 PM
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Dukes84 Offline
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RE: W&M Men's Basketball vs JMU Men's Basketball
(11-21-2019 02:25 PM)Dukester Wrote:  
(11-21-2019 07:06 AM)Dukes84 Wrote:  Dukester --

I've got another question for you: How many times has W&M beaten ODU in Norfolk?

I have no idea, but I'm guessing based on your question not too frequently or maybe the opposite. 03-lmfao

I don't know the answer Dukester, but assumed not many. I ran a search and ODU leads the all time series 67-22 or so. They've played each other since the dawn of time!
11-21-2019 03:58 PM
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Dukes84 Offline
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RE: W&M Men's Basketball vs JMU Men's Basketball
W&M loses big to Stanford.
11-22-2019 04:48 AM
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Dukester Offline
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RE: W&M Men's Basketball vs JMU Men's Basketball
(11-22-2019 04:48 AM)Dukes84 Wrote:  W&M loses big to Stanford.

So are you trying to say they have a more challenging schedule than us? 04-jawdrop
11-22-2019 02:29 PM
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