(11-17-2019 01:17 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(11-17-2019 12:33 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Honestly, I think there are more DI programs that the state can really support.

It's not just the G5 level. There aren't any powerhouse FCS team there. SHSU has been good once in a while but they're not a team that's a safe bet to make the playoffs every year.

Exactly. Texas has 24 Division I 1 (or reclassifying to Division I) schools and 21 of those have football. Regardless of where their football is, my mind groups them in 3 separate groups based generally on history and competitiveness (I think a Division I split is necessary):

1) Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, SMU, Houston, Rice
2) North Texas, UTSA, UTEP, Texas St, Sam Houston St, Stephen F. Austin St, Lamar, Texas - Arlington
3) Abilene Christian, Incarnate Word, Houston Baptist, Tarleton St, Texas Southern, Prairie View A&M, Texas A&M Corpus Christi, Texas - Rio Grande Valley

Side note: I’ve never lived outside of Texas. Born on the coast near Galveston, lived in and around Houston most of my growing up, college in East Texas, back to Houston for graduate school, lived in a Austin for a time, and have called DFW home for a while now. I know people who have been to all 24 of these schools and I enjoy and support each of the 24 schools when they compete on TV. I have spent time on 18 of these campuses.

What's your connection to Boise State and Gonzaga?

(11-17-2019 01:51 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  

(11-17-2019 01:17 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(11-17-2019 12:33 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Honestly, I think there are more DI programs that the state can really support.

It's not just the G5 level. There aren't any powerhouse FCS team there. SHSU has been good once in a while but they're not a team that's a safe bet to make the playoffs every year.

Exactly. Texas has 24 Division I 1 (or reclassifying to Division I) schools and 21 of those have football. Regardless of where their football is, my mind groups them in 3 separate groups based generally on history and competitiveness (I think a Division I split is necessary):

1) Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, SMU, Houston, Rice
2) North Texas, UTSA, UTEP, Texas St, Sam Houston St, Stephen F. Austin St, Lamar, Texas - Arlington
3) Abilene Christian, Incarnate Word, Houston Baptist, Tarleton St, Texas Southern, Prairie View A&M, Texas A&M Corpus Christi, Texas - Rio Grande Valley

Side note: I’ve never lived outside of Texas. Born on the coast near Galveston, lived in and around Houston most of my growing up, college in East Texas, back to Houston for graduate school, lived in a Austin for a time, and have called DFW home for a while now. I know people who have been to all 24 of these schools and I enjoy and support each of the 24 schools when they compete on TV. I have spent time on 18 of these campuses.

What's your connection to Boise State and Gonzaga?

Good question! Much too long of a story to share - more so to do with family ties which becomes a convoluted mess of a story. The only Texas team, college or professional, that I’m 100% behind as “my team” is the Dallas Stars. I’m a first generation Texan.

(11-17-2019 08:39 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Rice has been tremendous in the top 2 women's sports lately. Their volleyball program has been in the top 25 most of the year, and is just one of two teams (along with Stanford) to have beaten #1 Texas this year. Their basketball program was in the top 25 last year and has a chance to be there again this year, although they look to be a bit down for some reason based on an upset loss at SMU this past week (they play #6 A&M at home today so a win would help their NCAA resume quite a bit). And their men's basketball team is off to a 4-1 start (after a blowout loss at Arkansas to begin the season, they have put together a few nice wins over decent mid-major teams). Football is their only major sport still struggling. They're not going D3 - they just can't seem to find the right coach.

I do think there is a cultural change occurring in youth sports that has hurt certain sports (perhaps football, and on the women's side, definitely basketball). I think the top youth athletes are deciding early which sports to concentrate on, and because of all of football's health issues, some top young athletes are either concentrating on basketball or baseball instead. Texas football programs are just meh compared to where they once were, but at the same time, you have Texas Tech making the Final Four. That's had a reciprocal effect that is hurting the overall talent level of college football recruiting.

It's even more obvious on the women's side - the top athletes there for sure are playing volleyball over basketball now. There are still some elite prep basketball players (mostly going to the same schools hence Baylor's national title), but the overall talent level drops super quick. I'd be curious to see an article on why that is happening - maybe just kids thinking playing club volleyball is more 'cool' than playing club basketball.

This is happening in California also but while many disagree it's an impact of culture change. When we grew up masculinity was cool and playing football was the most popular thing someone could do. Also back then it was common to find African Americans living in places like Oakland, San Francisco, LA,

There is a reason South schools have been so dominant lol.

(11-16-2019 05:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Is it just me, or does it feel like since the last round of realignment the G5 schools in Texas, outside of tweener league AAC, have really struggled.

Any thoughts to why UNT, UTEP, Rice, UTSA, and Texas St have all been lack luster? Are other schools doing a better job mining the state for local talent?

North Texas is having a down season, but in no way are we struggling like the other C-USA Texas teams. In fact North Texas has not lost to another C-USA Texas program since 2016. Since joining C-USA in 2013, the Mean Green have had a fair number of winning seasons, and played in as many bowl games (4) as the other 3 Texas C-USA teams combined. Remember, before this year North Texas finished with back to back 9 win seasons.

This confirms a lot of the suspicions I had.

The additions of UTSA and Texas St to the FBS world is spreading recruits thinner than before.

Rice’s struggles are a product of being an elite private school in a pro market where your average football fan has a much stronger connection to the Texans or loyalties to Texas/TAMU/Houston.

UTEP can’t decide whether they are a western school or a Texas school. They joined C-USA to play SMU and Houston and to their fan base UNT and UTSA just aren’t the same. Recruits they used to be able to pull from the eastern side of the state now have more local options with the newcomers.

(11-17-2019 08:39 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I do think there is a cultural change occurring in youth sports that has hurt certain sports (perhaps football, and on the women's side, definitely basketball). I think the top youth athletes are deciding early which sports to concentrate on

Kids who get into travel sports programs are pushed by coaches to concentrate on one sport year-round and drop the others. A basketball player plays travel hoops outside of the HS basketball season, instead of playing high school football or volleyball, or vice versa. Travel sports coaches tell kids they might lose their place on the travel team if they play a second sport, and also hold out the carrot of college scholarships and college coaches who scout travel teams more often than they scout high school teams.

(11-17-2019 08:39 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  It's even more obvious on the women's side - the top athletes there for sure are playing volleyball over basketball now.

I don't see this in California, what I do see is athletes who might have played both sports in high school playing one or the other exclusively.

(11-17-2019 05:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-17-2019 08:39 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I do think there is a cultural change occurring in youth sports that has hurt certain sports (perhaps football, and on the women's side, definitely basketball). I think the top youth athletes are deciding early which sports to concentrate on

Kids who get into travel sports programs are pushed by coaches to concentrate on one sport year-round and drop the others. A basketball player plays travel hoops outside of the HS basketball season, instead of playing high school football or volleyball, or vice versa. Travel sports coaches tell kids they might lose their place on the travel team if they play a second sport, and also hold out the carrot of college scholarships and college coaches who scout travel teams more often than they scout high school teams.

(11-17-2019 08:39 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  It's even more obvious on the women's side - the top athletes there for sure are playing volleyball over basketball now.

I don't see this in California, what I do see is athletes who might have played both sports in high school playing one or the other exclusively.

A lot of high school coaches have direct pipelines between travel teams and high school teams, too. If you're not playing for their travel team they're partnered with, you can try out but there's no way you're making varsity. The only way you can go multi-sport is if you're at a smaller school.

American soccer's feeling it worst since most soccer talent here's too poor to spring for travel team costs, but baseball has it pretty bad, too. Football hasn't felt it that bad since there are so many roster slots to fill.

My two cents.

Rice there are kids who could help their team that they won't touch in recruiting.
UTEP has to fight the losing perception recruits have and hiring a good coach is going to be a struggle because guys who think they have options are going to pass. I mean look at the last hires. Dimel was 8-26 at Houston almost two decades ago. Kugler was never a head coach or coordinator at any level. His real selling point was he had some high profile assistant gigs while having experience at UTEP in the past. Mike Price was damaged goods but I think the move from WAC to CUSA hurt him because his recruiting contacts were all to the west and suddenly UTEP wasn't making regular tours of the states where he had contacts. Look at how his record declined over time. Nord was a bust promoted off Bailey's staff and Bailey was a bust. TLDR UTEP has made some bad hires.
UTSA the new and shiny wore off and huge stadiums without huge crowds are a bummer on recruiting visits.
UNT. Has made some really bad hires along the way and the administration pissed away a period of sustained success. Stuck in a dump stadium the school made no effort to replace it while winning four league titles and making four straight bowl trips. Instead they had to rely on getting students to pass a fee while the football team was down in order to get anything done. If they had addressed the facility situation earlier might have saved fans some heartbreak.
Houston fired coach who won division. Football gods are going to demand some pain for the Cougars in return.
SMU went from a decent coach to a good coach and looks pretty good.

(11-17-2019 05:11 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  This confirms a lot of the suspicions I had.

The additions of UTSA and Texas St to the FBS world is spreading recruits thinner than before.

Rice’s struggles are a product of being an elite private school in a pro market where your average football fan has a much stronger connection to the Texans or loyalties to Texas/TAMU/Houston.

UTEP can’t decide whether they are a western school or a Texas school. They joined C-USA to play SMU and Houston and to their fan base UNT and UTSA just aren’t the same. Recruits they used to be able to pull from the eastern side of the state now have more local options with the newcomers.

That is a incorrect conclusion. The talent is there. You have to find it and develop it. In the 2018 NFL Draft, defensive end Marcus Davenport of UTSA was selected in the first round by New Orleans. Davenport was a two star player out of San Antonio, rated #405 in the state of Texas in the 2014 recruiting class by 247sports.

Courtland Sutton, rated #153 in that class, was a 2nd round pick in the 2018 draft from SMU. Sutton played his high school ball in Brenham. He was a safety converted to wide receiver at SMU. Both Texas State and Rice had offers to him. He is starting at WR for the Broncos.

Another 2nd round pick in the 2018 NFL draft was DT PJ Hall from Sam Houston State. Hall was selected by the Oakland Raiders in the second round of the 2018 draft. Hall played high school ball at Seguin, which is about 30-40 minutes from both UTSA and Texas State. He didn't get an offer from either and ended up being a four year star in Huntsville. Hall was not rated in the 2013 class. Hall has started seven games for the Raiders at DT this season.

That was three guys from Texas that were not in the top 150 in the state and were drafted in the first two rounds of the 2018 NFL draft. It doesn't just have to be guys that were drafted. Larry Rose was a two star running back out of Fairfield that people missed on. Texas State wanted to convert him to a defensive back. He wanted to be a running back so he went to New Mexico State University. in 2015 at NMSU, he was the leading rusher in the Sun Belt Conference, the SBC Offensive Player of the Year and 3rd team All-American. He was the Arizona Bowl MVP when NMSU won their first bowl game in 55 years. Rose went undrafted in 2018 and has bounced around some NFL practice squads. He will be a player in the XFL.

There is plenty of talent in Texas. These schools just need to find it and develop it. It is not easy but it can be done.

(11-17-2019 05:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  I don't see this in California, what I do see is athletes who might have played both sports in high school playing one or the other exclusively.

It's definitely happening in Texas. The final four in 6A volleyball next weekend will feature two Dallas teams who each have a UCLA volleyball recruit (one is a senior, and one is a commit as a junior). I'll give you another example of a daughter of a Rice basketball player from the past. 6-5 Taylor Bannister is LSU's top volleyball player (she's a junior). Her mom was a really good basketball player at Rice (she's 6-2?), and her dad (not a Rice grad) was a basketball player in college and the pros. But as far as I know, their daughter never really played basketball growing up - just volleyball.

Another example I know of is the Fields family, which is a local family where I live. They had two 6-2 or 6-3 daughters. Sidney Fields started off at North Carolina in volleyball, but ended up transferring to Texas A&M. Skylar, the younger sister, is a freshman volleyball hitter at Texas and was considered the #1 high school recruit in the country last year. Their 6-2 mom played basketball in college (for either an SEC or ACC team), and their dad played football for Clemson and a bit in the NFL.

Maybe it's different out in California. The volleyball talent in Texas is unbelievable.

(11-17-2019 09:49 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  My two cents.

Rice there are kids who could help their team that they won't touch in recruiting.
UTEP has to fight the losing perception recruits have and hiring a good coach is going to be a struggle because guys who think they have options are going to pass. I mean look at the last hires. Dimel was 8-26 at Houston almost two decades ago. Kugler was never a head coach or coordinator at any level. His real selling point was he had some high profile assistant gigs while having experience at UTEP in the past. Mike Price was damaged goods but I think the move from WAC to CUSA hurt him because his recruiting contacts were all to the west and suddenly UTEP wasn't making regular tours of the states where he had contacts. Look at how his record declined over time. Nord was a bust promoted off Bailey's staff and Bailey was a bust. TLDR UTEP has made some bad hires.
UTSA the new and shiny wore off and huge stadiums without huge crowds are a bummer on recruiting visits.
UNT. Has made some really bad hires along the way and the administration pissed away a period of sustained success. Stuck in a dump stadium the school made no effort to replace it while winning four league titles and making four straight bowl trips. Instead they had to rely on getting students to pass a fee while the football team was down in order to get anything done. If they had addressed the facility situation earlier might have saved fans some heartbreak.
Houston fired coach who won division. Football gods are going to demand some pain for the Cougars in return.
SMU went from a decent coach to a good coach and looks pretty good.

To be fair---We fired a coach that came in second on the head to head tiebreaker and got beat 70-14 in his bowl game. More than half the UH schedule this year was ranked at some point in the year. Given Major went 1-4 over the last 5 games of 2018 when the meat of the schedule hit---I doubt Major would have done any better this year. In fact, many lay the current depleted roster, partly due from under utilization of the red shirt in prior years, at Applewhite's feet. This year was ugly, but with the red shirting, the incoming transfers who had to sit this year, and higher quality of HS recruits Dana has been able to attract---the talent base is on the way to recovery. Im wating until 2020 to make any judgments on dumping Major for Dana move (which I supported).

(11-17-2019 09:49 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  My two cents.

Rice there are kids who could help their team that they won't touch in recruiting.
UTEP has to fight the losing perception recruits have and hiring a good coach is going to be a struggle because guys who think they have options are going to pass. I mean look at the last hires. Dimel was 8-26 at Houston almost two decades ago. Kugler was never a head coach or coordinator at any level. His real selling point was he had some high profile assistant gigs while having experience at UTEP in the past. Mike Price was damaged goods but I think the move from WAC to CUSA hurt him because his recruiting contacts were all to the west and suddenly UTEP wasn't making regular tours of the states where he had contacts. Look at how his record declined over time. Nord was a bust promoted off Bailey's staff and Bailey was a bust. TLDR UTEP has made some bad hires.
UTSA the new and shiny wore off and huge stadiums without huge crowds are a bummer on recruiting visits.
UNT. Has made some really bad hires along the way and the administration pissed away a period of sustained success. Stuck in a dump stadium the school made no effort to replace it while winning four league titles and making four straight bowl trips. Instead they had to rely on getting students to pass a fee while the football team was down in order to get anything done. If they had addressed the facility situation earlier might have saved fans some heartbreak.
Houston fired coach who won division. Football gods are going to demand some pain for the Cougars in return.
SMU went from a decent coach to a good coach and looks pretty good.

More of a history lesson about UNT from 2000 through about 2015. It doesn't comment on the current state of the North Texas football program. Anyway, that's my two cents.

(11-18-2019 09:02 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(11-17-2019 09:49 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  My two cents.

Rice there are kids who could help their team that they won't touch in recruiting.
UTEP has to fight the losing perception recruits have and hiring a good coach is going to be a struggle because guys who think they have options are going to pass. I mean look at the last hires. Dimel was 8-26 at Houston almost two decades ago. Kugler was never a head coach or coordinator at any level. His real selling point was he had some high profile assistant gigs while having experience at UTEP in the past. Mike Price was damaged goods but I think the move from WAC to CUSA hurt him because his recruiting contacts were all to the west and suddenly UTEP wasn't making regular tours of the states where he had contacts. Look at how his record declined over time. Nord was a bust promoted off Bailey's staff and Bailey was a bust. TLDR UTEP has made some bad hires.
UTSA the new and shiny wore off and huge stadiums without huge crowds are a bummer on recruiting visits.
UNT. Has made some really bad hires along the way and the administration pissed away a period of sustained success. Stuck in a dump stadium the school made no effort to replace it while winning four league titles and making four straight bowl trips. Instead they had to rely on getting students to pass a fee while the football team was down in order to get anything done. If they had addressed the facility situation earlier might have saved fans some heartbreak.
Houston fired coach who won division. Football gods are going to demand some pain for the Cougars in return.
SMU went from a decent coach to a good coach and looks pretty good.

More of a history lesson about UNT from 2000 through about 2015. It doesn't comment on the current state of the North Texas football program. Anyway, that's my two cents.

Dan McCarney was considered a good coach when he was at Iowa State. What went wrong down there?

(11-18-2019 09:08 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(11-18-2019 09:02 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(11-17-2019 09:49 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  My two cents.

Rice there are kids who could help their team that they won't touch in recruiting.
UTEP has to fight the losing perception recruits have and hiring a good coach is going to be a struggle because guys who think they have options are going to pass. I mean look at the last hires. Dimel was 8-26 at Houston almost two decades ago. Kugler was never a head coach or coordinator at any level. His real selling point was he had some high profile assistant gigs while having experience at UTEP in the past. Mike Price was damaged goods but I think the move from WAC to CUSA hurt him because his recruiting contacts were all to the west and suddenly UTEP wasn't making regular tours of the states where he had contacts. Look at how his record declined over time. Nord was a bust promoted off Bailey's staff and Bailey was a bust. TLDR UTEP has made some bad hires.
UTSA the new and shiny wore off and huge stadiums without huge crowds are a bummer on recruiting visits.
UNT. Has made some really bad hires along the way and the administration pissed away a period of sustained success. Stuck in a dump stadium the school made no effort to replace it while winning four league titles and making four straight bowl trips. Instead they had to rely on getting students to pass a fee while the football team was down in order to get anything done. If they had addressed the facility situation earlier might have saved fans some heartbreak.
Houston fired coach who won division. Football gods are going to demand some pain for the Cougars in return.
SMU went from a decent coach to a good coach and looks pretty good.

More of a history lesson about UNT from 2000 through about 2015. It doesn't comment on the current state of the North Texas football program. Anyway, that's my two cents.

Dan McCarney was considered a good coach when he was at Iowa State. What went wrong down there?

Texas ain't Iowa. You've got to work extremely hard if you want to be a winning G5 program in Texas. There are just too many other options for recruits and sports fans.

Dan just didn't want to work hard enough.

(11-18-2019 09:16 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(11-18-2019 09:08 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(11-18-2019 09:02 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(11-17-2019 09:49 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  My two cents.

Rice there are kids who could help their team that they won't touch in recruiting.
UTEP has to fight the losing perception recruits have and hiring a good coach is going to be a struggle because guys who think they have options are going to pass. I mean look at the last hires. Dimel was 8-26 at Houston almost two decades ago. Kugler was never a head coach or coordinator at any level. His real selling point was he had some high profile assistant gigs while having experience at UTEP in the past. Mike Price was damaged goods but I think the move from WAC to CUSA hurt him because his recruiting contacts were all to the west and suddenly UTEP wasn't making regular tours of the states where he had contacts. Look at how his record declined over time. Nord was a bust promoted off Bailey's staff and Bailey was a bust. TLDR UTEP has made some bad hires.
UTSA the new and shiny wore off and huge stadiums without huge crowds are a bummer on recruiting visits.
UNT. Has made some really bad hires along the way and the administration pissed away a period of sustained success. Stuck in a dump stadium the school made no effort to replace it while winning four league titles and making four straight bowl trips. Instead they had to rely on getting students to pass a fee while the football team was down in order to get anything done. If they had addressed the facility situation earlier might have saved fans some heartbreak.
Houston fired coach who won division. Football gods are going to demand some pain for the Cougars in return.
SMU went from a decent coach to a good coach and looks pretty good.

More of a history lesson about UNT from 2000 through about 2015. It doesn't comment on the current state of the North Texas football program. Anyway, that's my two cents.

Dan McCarney was considered a good coach when he was at Iowa State. What went wrong down there?

Texas ain't Iowa. You've got to work extremely hard if you want to be a winning G5 program in Texas. There are just too many other options for recruits and sports fans.

Dan just didn't want to work hard enough.

Geeze, did no one think to just tell him to work harder?

(11-19-2019 08:22 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(11-18-2019 09:16 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(11-18-2019 09:08 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(11-18-2019 09:02 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(11-17-2019 09:49 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  My two cents.

Rice there are kids who could help their team that they won't touch in recruiting.
UTEP has to fight the losing perception recruits have and hiring a good coach is going to be a struggle because guys who think they have options are going to pass. I mean look at the last hires. Dimel was 8-26 at Houston almost two decades ago. Kugler was never a head coach or coordinator at any level. His real selling point was he had some high profile assistant gigs while having experience at UTEP in the past. Mike Price was damaged goods but I think the move from WAC to CUSA hurt him because his recruiting contacts were all to the west and suddenly UTEP wasn't making regular tours of the states where he had contacts. Look at how his record declined over time. Nord was a bust promoted off Bailey's staff and Bailey was a bust. TLDR UTEP has made some bad hires.
UTSA the new and shiny wore off and huge stadiums without huge crowds are a bummer on recruiting visits.
UNT. Has made some really bad hires along the way and the administration pissed away a period of sustained success. Stuck in a dump stadium the school made no effort to replace it while winning four league titles and making four straight bowl trips. Instead they had to rely on getting students to pass a fee while the football team was down in order to get anything done. If they had addressed the facility situation earlier might have saved fans some heartbreak.
Houston fired coach who won division. Football gods are going to demand some pain for the Cougars in return.
SMU went from a decent coach to a good coach and looks pretty good.

More of a history lesson about UNT from 2000 through about 2015. It doesn't comment on the current state of the North Texas football program. Anyway, that's my two cents.

Dan McCarney was considered a good coach when he was at Iowa State. What went wrong down there?

Texas ain't Iowa. You've got to work extremely hard if you want to be a winning G5 program in Texas. There are just too many other options for recruits and sports fans.

Dan just didn't want to work hard enough.

Geeze, did no one think to just tell him to work harder?

That does seem a little unfair. Iowa State's far from easy to win at too. Still, it wouldn't surprise me if he was older and just felt like mailing it in until retirement.

(11-19-2019 12:06 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(11-19-2019 08:22 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(11-18-2019 09:16 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(11-18-2019 09:08 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(11-18-2019 09:02 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  More of a history lesson about UNT from 2000 through about 2015. It doesn't comment on the current state of the North Texas football program. Anyway, that's my two cents.

Dan McCarney was considered a good coach when he was at Iowa State. What went wrong down there?

Texas ain't Iowa. You've got to work extremely hard if you want to be a winning G5 program in Texas. There are just too many other options for recruits and sports fans.

Dan just didn't want to work hard enough.

Geeze, did no one think to just tell him to work harder?

That does seem a little unfair. Iowa State's far from easy to win at too. Still, it wouldn't surprise me if he was older and just felt like mailing it in until retirement.

I don't see Matt Campbell complaining about Iowa State's #22 ranking in the AP.

I think Mac just wasn't as good of a coach as some thought. Remember, the BIG 12 was fairly weak when Mac was producing his 5 winning seasons in 11 seasons for Iowa State. Remember Mac went 56-85 as their head coach.