Looking at the standings, Miami 5-1 conference, 6-4 overall has clinched the MAC east. They still have to win 1 of 2 or the CCG to be bowl eligible. 2 teams are already eliminated. 2 others have 6 losses with 2 to play and 1 is 5-5.

In the MAC West 3 teams have 6 wins and only 1 has 6 losses so far.
There is still a set of realistic occurrences that could result in a 5 way tie for first at 5-3. 7 games have to go a certain way. In 5 of those the likely favorites would have to win. 2 would be minor upsets.

WMU 5-2 needs to lose to NIU on 11-26.
CMU 4-2 needs to beat Ball ST. tomorrow and lose to Toledo on 11-29
Ball St. 3-2 needs to lose to CMU, then beat Kent 11-23 and Miami 11-29
NIU 3-3 needs to beat EMU on 11-19 then WMU 11-26
Toledo 3-3 needs to beat Buffalo 11-20 and then CMU 11-29

Should Ball ST. beat CMU there is still the possibility of a 4 way tie at 5-3 with either CMU or Toledo finishing 5-3 but not both.

Not one MAC team this year would bat better than 4-4 in the 2003 MAC. Weakest year the league’s ever had. Many past MAC teams who didn’t win the championship would whip whoever wins this this season by 20+.

(11-15-2019 10:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  Looking at the standings, Miami 5-1 conference, 6-4 overall has clinched the MAC east. They still have to win 1 of 2 or the CCG to be bowl eligible. 2 teams are already eliminated. 2 others have 6 losses with 2 to play and 1 is 5-5.

In the MAC West 3 teams have 6 wins and only 1 has 6 losses so far.
There is still a set of realistic occurrences that could result in a 5 way tie for first at 5-3. 7 games have to go a certain way. In 5 of those the likely favorites would have to win. 2 would be minor upsets.

WMU 5-2 needs to lose to NIU on 11-26.
CMU 4-2 needs to beat Ball ST. tomorrow and lose to Toledo on 11-29
Ball St. 3-2 needs to lose to CMU, then beat Kent 11-23 and Miami 11-29
NIU 3-3 needs to beat EMU on 11-19 then WMU 11-26
Toledo 3-3 needs to beat Buffalo 11-20 and then CMU 11-29

Should Ball ST. beat CMU there is still the possibility of a 4 way tie at 5-3 with either CMU or Toledo finishing 5-3 but not both.

Not sure you are right about Miami they are already announcing they are bowl eligible.

(11-15-2019 10:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  Looking at the standings, Miami 5-1 conference, 6-4 overall has clinched the MAC east. They still have to win 1 of 2 or the CCG to be bowl eligible.

No, MiamiU is bowl eligible ... 6-6 regular season makes you bowl eligible, and if you lose the CCG you don't lose your bowl eligibility.

Mind, that rule wasn't done for the benefit of a Go5 school or conference ... IIRC, that is the Georgia Tech rule to benefit the ACC ... but MiamiU is, at least pro forma, an FBS school playing in an FBS conference, so they still get to use it.

One reputed MAC conference bonus is, back in the bad old days when "non-BCS" schools would frequently stay home even with 7 or 8 wins, there was a division winner, CCG loser who didn't go bowling even though a school with a worse regular season conference record did, and after that point the MAC conference is reputed to have put in a rule that says if you win your division, you cannot be made to sit home while non-division-winners bowl.

Now the MAC has enough bowls so that if this reputed rule is correct, then clinching a MAC division AND clinching bowl eligibility implies that MiamiU WILL be going bowling, even if they have a late season collapse and finish 6-6.

(11-16-2019 08:33 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(11-15-2019 10:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  Looking at the standings, Miami 5-1 conference, 6-4 overall has clinched the MAC east. They still have to win 1 of 2 or the CCG to be bowl eligible.

No, MiamiU is bowl eligible ... 6-6 regular season makes you bowl eligible, and if you lose the CCG you don't lose your bowl eligibility.

Are conference champs automatically bowl eligible (assuming no NCAA probation) or do they too have too meet the 6-win rule. If a team somehow went 5-8 but won their CCG, would they go to a bowl or no?

(11-16-2019 08:33 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(11-15-2019 10:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  Looking at the standings, Miami 5-1 conference, 6-4 overall has clinched the MAC east. They still have to win 1 of 2 or the CCG to be bowl eligible.

No, MiamiU is bowl eligible ... 6-6 regular season makes you bowl eligible, and if you lose the CCG you don't lose your bowl eligibility.

Mind, that rule wasn't done for the benefit of a Go5 school or conference ... IIRC, that is the Georgia Tech rule to benefit the ACC ... but MiamiU is, at least pro forma, an FBS school playing in an FBS conference, so they still get to use it.

One reputed MAC conference bonus is, back in the bad old days when "non-BCS" schools would frequently stay home even with 7 or 8 wins, there was a division winner, CCG loser who didn't go bowling even though a school with a worse regular season conference record did, and after that point the MAC conference is reputed to have put in a rule that says if you win your division, you cannot be made to sit home while non-division-winners bowl.

Now the MAC has enough bowls so that if this reputed rule is correct, then clinching a MAC division AND clinching bowl eligibility implies that MiamiU WILL be going bowling, even if they have a late season collapse and finish 6-6.

That rule was established when UCLA played for the PAC championship with a 6-6 record the year before Georgia Tech had the same situation. UCLA did, in fact lose, but were bowl eligible at 6-7.

The exception for 6-7 teams does not extend to schools that played a 13th game because of the Hawaii rule rather than a CCG. Those schools must have seven qualifying wins.

(11-15-2019 10:44 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Not one MAC team this year would bat better than 4-4 in the 2003 MAC. Weakest year the league’s ever had. Many past MAC teams who didn’t win the championship would whip whoever wins this this season by 20+.

That I disagree with. The MAC has much more speed on defense than back in those days.

The bottom feeders (Kent, EMU, Buffalo, Ball) have brought good coaches into the MAC and are now competing in the conference. EMU defeated Illinois and they are going bowling.

(11-15-2019 10:44 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Not one MAC team this year would bat better than 4-4 in the 2003 MAC. Weakest year the league’s ever had. Many past MAC teams who didn’t win the championship would whip whoever wins this this season by 20+.

The top is very weak, but imo the below average teams are better than they usually are. According to Sagarin the MAC West is better than the Sun Belt West and C-USA East, while the MAC East is still better than the C-USA West.

IIRC both MAC division champs are guaranteed one of our bowl bids, might be wrong on that one. Shouldn't be an issue for Miami since we play winless Akron next week.

(11-15-2019 10:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  Looking at the standings, Miami 5-1 conference, 6-4 overall has clinched the MAC east. They still have to win 1 of 2 or the CCG to be bowl eligible. 2 teams are already eliminated. 2 others have 6 losses with 2 to play and 1 is 5-5.

In the MAC West 3 teams have 6 wins and only 1 has 6 losses so far.
There is still a set of realistic occurrences that could result in a 5 way tie for first at 5-3. 7 games have to go a certain way. In 5 of those the likely favorites would have to win. 2 would be minor upsets.

WMU 5-2 needs to lose to NIU on 11-26.
CMU 4-2 needs to beat Ball ST. tomorrow and lose to Toledo on 11-29
Ball St. 3-2 needs to lose to CMU, then beat Kent 11-23 and Miami 11-29
NIU 3-3 needs to beat EMU on 11-19 then WMU 11-26
Toledo 3-3 needs to beat Buffalo 11-20 and then CMU 11-29

Should Ball ST. beat CMU there is still the possibility of a 4 way tie at 5-3 with either CMU or Toledo finishing 5-3 but not both.

1 down, 6 to go.
CMU comes from 17 down late in 3rd to win 45-44 over Ball St.

Given that EMU is up over NIU 45-10 with 52 seconds to go (why did EMU call a time out???), looks like the best the MAC West can do is a 4 way tie.

(11-19-2019 10:40 PM)bullet Wrote:  Given that EMU is up over NIU 45-10 with 52 seconds to go (why did EMU call a time out???), looks like the best the MAC West can do is a 4 way tie.

What happened to NIU do they suck now?

(11-19-2019 10:43 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-19-2019 10:40 PM)bullet Wrote:  Given that EMU is up over NIU 45-10 with 52 seconds to go (why did EMU call a time out???), looks like the best the MAC West can do is a 4 way tie.

What happened to NIU do they suck now?

Yes. At least this year. We did have a lot of injuries also.

(11-20-2019 04:59 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(11-19-2019 10:43 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-19-2019 10:40 PM)bullet Wrote:  Given that EMU is up over NIU 45-10 with 52 seconds to go (why did EMU call a time out???), looks like the best the MAC West can do is a 4 way tie.

What happened to NIU do they suck now?

Yes. At least this year. We did have a lot of injuries also.

We all suck.

(11-16-2019 08:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Are conference champs automatically bowl eligible (assuming no NCAA probation) or do they too have too meet the 6-win rule.

They have to meet the 6-win rule ... it's a rule that playing in a CCG can't harm your eligibility. If you were eligible before playing in a CCG, you remain eligible even if you lose.

Which is why it doesn't apply to a 13th game due to the Hawaii exception.

(11-21-2019 04:26 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(11-16-2019 08:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Are conference champs automatically bowl eligible (assuming no NCAA probation) or do they too have too meet the 6-win rule.

They have to meet the 6-win rule ... it's a rule that playing in a CCG can't harm your eligibility. If you were eligible before playing in a CCG, you remain eligible no matter what.

Which is why it doesn't apply to a 13th game due to the Hawaii exception.

Yes, i remember the UCLA precedent from 2011.

But you are saying a conference champ can be bowl ineligible based on too few wins. Didn't know that.

Coming down to Central Michigan or Western Michigan in the West.

Western Michigan beats Northern Illinois Tuesday, WMU wins

Western Michigan loses to Northern Illinois AND Central Michigan beats Toledo, CMU wins

Western Michigan loses to Northern Illinois AND Central Michigan loses to Toledo, WMU wins.

(11-21-2019 06:22 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Coming down to Central Michigan or Western Michigan in the West.

Western Michigan beats Northern Illinois Tuesday, WMU wins

Western Michigan loses to Northern Illinois AND Central Michigan beats Toledo, CMU wins

Western Michigan loses to Northern Illinois AND Central Michigan loses to Toledo, WMU wins.

With Toledo's loss it can only be a 3 way tie and Ball St. lost by a combined 5 points to WMU and CMU.

There could still be a 4 way tie for 3rd to 6th at 4-4. NIU, Toledo and EMU are 3-4 with one to play and Ball ST. is 3-3 with two to play.

(11-21-2019 04:32 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-21-2019 04:26 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(11-16-2019 08:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Are conference champs automatically bowl eligible (assuming no NCAA probation) or do they too have too meet the 6-win rule.

They have to meet the 6-win rule ... it's a rule that playing in a CCG can't harm your eligibility. If you were eligible before playing in a CCG, you remain eligible no matter what.

Which is why it doesn't apply to a 13th game due to the Hawaii exception.

Yes, i remember the UCLA precedent from 2011.

But you are saying a conference champ can be bowl ineligible based on too few wins. Didn't know that.

Yes:

Quote: A “deserving team” shall be defined as one that has won a number of games against Football Bowl Subdivision opponents that is equal to or greater than the number of its overall losses. Tie games do not count in determining a team’s won-lost record. ...
Exception—Deserving Team That Loses Conference Championship Game. [FBS] An institution that finishes its regular season having met the definition of a “deserving team” but loses its conference championship game shall continue to be considered a deserving team.

Can ... though it's not entirely likely. If a school plays an eight game conference schedule and four OOC, and loses all four OOC, and is 5-3 in their conference but has a very tight division and ends up in the CCG as division winner (possibly after some tie breakers), they would be 5-7 and not yet eligible. Winning the CCG and hitting 6-7 would leave them still with a losing FBS record and short of the "deserving team" status.

However, if the bowls are short of bowl eligible teams, 6-7 teams (whether this case, or because of the Hawaii bonus game), are second in line after schools that are 5-6 because they played and beat an FCS school but the FCS did not have the scholarships to be counted as an FBS school.

(11-16-2019 08:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-16-2019 08:33 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(11-15-2019 10:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  Looking at the standings, Miami 5-1 conference, 6-4 overall has clinched the MAC east. They still have to win 1 of 2 or the CCG to be bowl eligible.

No, MiamiU is bowl eligible ... 6-6 regular season makes you bowl eligible, and if you lose the CCG you don't lose your bowl eligibility.

Are conference champs automatically bowl eligible (assuming no NCAA probation) or do they too have too meet the 6-win rule. If a team somehow went 5-8 but won their CCG, would they go to a bowl or no?

Conference champ was automatically eligible starting when the minimum eligibility rules were adopted. It may have been swept out of the manual with the adoption of the added rules but I suspect the NCAA response would be oops that was an editorial mistake, we never meant to eliminate that (it's happened before) all is good.

It happened with North Texas but that was first year of the Sun Belt when the league schedule was six games.

With most playing at least 8 a 4-4 division champ is pretty improbable unless you've got someone under sanctions.

(11-22-2019 08:34 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(11-16-2019 08:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-16-2019 08:33 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(11-15-2019 10:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  Looking at the standings, Miami 5-1 conference, 6-4 overall has clinched the MAC east. They still have to win 1 of 2 or the CCG to be bowl eligible.

No, MiamiU is bowl eligible ... 6-6 regular season makes you bowl eligible, and if you lose the CCG you don't lose your bowl eligibility.

Are conference champs automatically bowl eligible (assuming no NCAA probation) or do they too have too meet the 6-win rule. If a team somehow went 5-8 but won their CCG, would they go to a bowl or no?

Conference champ was automatically eligible starting when the minimum eligibility rules were adopted. It may have been swept out of the manual with the adoption of the added rules but I suspect the NCAA response would be oops that was an editorial mistake, we never meant to eliminate that (it's happened before) all is good.

It happened with North Texas but that was first year of the Sun Belt when the league schedule was six games.

With most playing at least 8 a 4-4 division champ is pretty improbable unless you've got someone under sanctions.

Based on the preceding comments, it seems it is still unclear as to whether the 6-win rule applies to conference champs.

IMO, it shouldn't. Bowl contracts are with conferences, so the conferences should be able to have a rule that their champ goes to a particular bowl, period, no matter what their record, with the only exception being if the school is not bowl eligible because of NCAA violations.