(11-03-2019 10:00 PM)uiniu57 Wrote:  

(11-03-2019 09:29 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Because talent is judged across the board. And Tears, while very talented, is bad at football. Tell me how it's assumed Hammock is an expert judge of player evaluation in his first year of coaching? Are you 100% sure Hammock isn't leaving a better player on the bench? Carey got called out all the time for not start8ing the right guy....and rightfully so at times. So maybe it's time Hammock quits getting a free pass on his evaluations and we question them.

Ryan Graham earned a D1 scholarship. It's relative. Tears is great at football compared to the general population. Compared to other FBS wrs he's bad. Making amazing catches is just a tiny portion of a wr's game. #1 is catch the catchable balls. He's bad at that. If Cole Tucker is far better than you and you have all that talent, you're bad at football.

The irony for me is that I agree with you on Tears, and it's not so much that I'm giving Hammock a pass on evaluations as I believe the roster is neither very deep or as talented as in the past. I'm not a Carey fan, but he was lucky and got more than his share of breaks to have as much success as he had prior to annually sucking in bowl games. In essence recruiting declined under Carey and he didn't leave Hammock very much or the right type of player to work with to make the system changes he desires. Maybe Hammock can't evaluate the "talent" that exists on this year's roster because it's not suited to what he and his staff want to do. I simply believe this transition is making things worse, but even if Carey had stayed, this season would still be sub-par.

We have more (or just as much) talent than any mac team. We were MAC champs and had one of the highest returning players of any mac team. No reason to be losing to ANY mac teams. To say Hammock was left with little or no talent is ridiculous. He also let go of a lot of possibly talented players and brought in some of his guys. Bottom line, is your a head coach, you adjust your "SYSTEM" to the players you have , this is coaching 101. Everybody talking about giving Hammock a free pass, and waiting for 'HIS GUYS" is bs. Do you think this is what he told STF in his interview (our team will suck till we get "my guys"). This was not a rebuild project, this was keep the ship floating or take to it to the next level, project. My, how our expectations of NIU Football have fallen. I personally am not going to sit around and say "its ok give Hammock time" as the ship sinks for next few years. This is a bad season and NIU fans deserve and expect more.

You nailed it. Lack of talent is simply not true.. 10 out of the past 19 years we HAVE not, had a player drafted.. hence " The Hard Way"

You inherit a championship team, with the number one amount of upperclassmen returning. You are predicted to finish 1 - 3 in your own confrence coaches poll, and all major c.f. publications.

I would say you laid an egg, and you should accountable to offer some sort of plan. Again, I do not hear any positives about what this staff has accomplished..what has anyone seen..from the energy of the players, mental errors , offensive scheme , or toughness.

What is even crazier is how many of you hailed, and annointed this hire, before knowing anything about the staff.


Why Frazier decided to hand over the keys to the car, to a person has no head coaching, not even as a coordinator, who has been in the NFL for the past 5 years. His staff, not only is not impressive on paper, but on the field as well.

While you have annointed him to be this recruiting machine, the dude does not publicly appear to have much charisma or energy...aren't these traits which help you excell on the recruiting end??

Other, then " give him, a break, it's his first year", can someone give some tangible positives about his coaching this year? This is all on Frazier..I was okay with him until this hire.

I think we just struggle accepting the fact this team is not talented. NIU is ranked 117 out of 130 teams in the nation. You really think pure coaching decisions explain that. When you are that close to the bottom, it is talent. We just have to get out of this denial mode, NIU is NOT a good football team.

(11-04-2019 07:45 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(11-03-2019 10:00 PM)uiniu57 Wrote:  

(11-03-2019 09:29 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Because talent is judged across the board. And Tears, while very talented, is bad at football. Tell me how it's assumed Hammock is an expert judge of player evaluation in his first year of coaching? Are you 100% sure Hammock isn't leaving a better player on the bench? Carey got called out all the time for not start8ing the right guy....and rightfully so at times. So maybe it's time Hammock quits getting a free pass on his evaluations and we question them.

Ryan Graham earned a D1 scholarship. It's relative. Tears is great at football compared to the general population. Compared to other FBS wrs he's bad. Making amazing catches is just a tiny portion of a wr's game. #1 is catch the catchable balls. He's bad at that. If Cole Tucker is far better than you and you have all that talent, you're bad at football.

The irony for me is that I agree with you on Tears, and it's not so much that I'm giving Hammock a pass on evaluations as I believe the roster is neither very deep or as talented as in the past. I'm not a Carey fan, but he was lucky and got more than his share of breaks to have as much success as he had prior to annually sucking in bowl games. In essence recruiting declined under Carey and he didn't leave Hammock very much or the right type of player to work with to make the system changes he desires. Maybe Hammock can't evaluate the "talent" that exists on this year's roster because it's not suited to what he and his staff want to do. I simply believe this transition is making things worse, but even if Carey had stayed, this season would still be sub-par.

I’m ecstatic Carey is gone. I come off as a Carey supporter but what I’m really trying to impart is that Carey kept NIU at the true NIU level. This team was going to regress if Kill or Doeren stayed. People have to stop using 2012/13 to measure NIU football. A couple great seasons never moves the needle for a G5. UCF had far far far far better seasons than NIU. After they beat Auburn and finished #6 their recruiting class for the next two seasons avg was #60. Guess what it was the two seasons before? #61. Carey, Doeren,Kill, Hammock all recruit the same level of athlete. And we all know that finding a two star who makes it to the NFL is mostly luck. So yes Carey left this team a little dry. But it’s filled with the same recruit “level” of athletes that any NIU coach would have recruited. It’s a matter of development some times...I.e. Tucker developed...Tears regressed.

Carey was a great coach for that 60 to 100 level. I think we all want NIU get back to a 20 to 50 type team. It will take Hammock some time to get some talented players in here, and I have faith he is the right guy to do that. He may not be, but the way NIU was headed and the trajectory NIU was on, I fully embrace a rebuild.

(11-04-2019 12:13 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 07:45 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(11-03-2019 10:00 PM)uiniu57 Wrote:  

(11-03-2019 09:29 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Because talent is judged across the board. And Tears, while very talented, is bad at football. Tell me how it's assumed Hammock is an expert judge of player evaluation in his first year of coaching? Are you 100% sure Hammock isn't leaving a better player on the bench? Carey got called out all the time for not start8ing the right guy....and rightfully so at times. So maybe it's time Hammock quits getting a free pass on his evaluations and we question them.

Ryan Graham earned a D1 scholarship. It's relative. Tears is great at football compared to the general population. Compared to other FBS wrs he's bad. Making amazing catches is just a tiny portion of a wr's game. #1 is catch the catchable balls. He's bad at that. If Cole Tucker is far better than you and you have all that talent, you're bad at football.

The irony for me is that I agree with you on Tears, and it's not so much that I'm giving Hammock a pass on evaluations as I believe the roster is neither very deep or as talented as in the past. I'm not a Carey fan, but he was lucky and got more than his share of breaks to have as much success as he had prior to annually sucking in bowl games. In essence recruiting declined under Carey and he didn't leave Hammock very much or the right type of player to work with to make the system changes he desires. Maybe Hammock can't evaluate the "talent" that exists on this year's roster because it's not suited to what he and his staff want to do. I simply believe this transition is making things worse, but even if Carey had stayed, this season would still be sub-par.

I’m ecstatic Carey is gone. I come off as a Carey supporter but what I’m really trying to impart is that Carey kept NIU at the true NIU level. This team was going to regress if Kill or Doeren stayed. People have to stop using 2012/13 to measure NIU football. A couple great seasons never moves the needle for a G5. UCF had far far far far better seasons than NIU. After they beat Auburn and finished #6 their recruiting class for the next two seasons avg was #60. Guess what it was the two seasons before? #61. Carey, Doeren,Kill, Hammock all recruit the same level of athlete. And we all know that finding a two star who makes it to the NFL is mostly luck. So yes Carey left this team a little dry. But it’s filled with the same recruit “level” of athletes that any NIU coach would have recruited. It’s a matter of development some times...I.e. Tucker developed...Tears regressed.

Carey was a great coach for that 60 to 100 level. I think we all want NIU get back to a 20 to 50 type team. It will take Hammock some time to get some talented players in here, and I have faith he is the right guy to do that. He may not be, but the way NIU was headed and the trajectory NIU was on, I fully embrace a rebuild.

Hammock is not going to get better athletes in here. He’s going to get the same guys all Mac teams get. We will never have 20-50 level talent here. App state doesn’t have top 50 level talent. They’re just using there 90-100 level talent very effectively while playing a super soft schedule...sound familiar?

For the talent sucks crowd, just look at the Bears for a great example of talent vs execution. The Bears came in absolutely loaded with offensive talent. But this year their execution is horrendous. If this was the first time you’d seen them play you’d say they have no talent on offense(outside of Robinson). But we know it’s not true. Talent doesn’t get to show if the coaches can’t get on the same page as the players.

(11-04-2019 12:22 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 12:13 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 07:45 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(11-03-2019 10:00 PM)uiniu57 Wrote:  

(11-03-2019 09:29 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Because talent is judged across the board. And Tears, while very talented, is bad at football. Tell me how it's assumed Hammock is an expert judge of player evaluation in his first year of coaching? Are you 100% sure Hammock isn't leaving a better player on the bench? Carey got called out all the time for not start8ing the right guy....and rightfully so at times. So maybe it's time Hammock quits getting a free pass on his evaluations and we question them.

Ryan Graham earned a D1 scholarship. It's relative. Tears is great at football compared to the general population. Compared to other FBS wrs he's bad. Making amazing catches is just a tiny portion of a wr's game. #1 is catch the catchable balls. He's bad at that. If Cole Tucker is far better than you and you have all that talent, you're bad at football.

The irony for me is that I agree with you on Tears, and it's not so much that I'm giving Hammock a pass on evaluations as I believe the roster is neither very deep or as talented as in the past. I'm not a Carey fan, but he was lucky and got more than his share of breaks to have as much success as he had prior to annually sucking in bowl games. In essence recruiting declined under Carey and he didn't leave Hammock very much or the right type of player to work with to make the system changes he desires. Maybe Hammock can't evaluate the "talent" that exists on this year's roster because it's not suited to what he and his staff want to do. I simply believe this transition is making things worse, but even if Carey had stayed, this season would still be sub-par.

I’m ecstatic Carey is gone. I come off as a Carey supporter but what I’m really trying to impart is that Carey kept NIU at the true NIU level. This team was going to regress if Kill or Doeren stayed. People have to stop using 2012/13 to measure NIU football. A couple great seasons never moves the needle for a G5. UCF had far far far far better seasons than NIU. After they beat Auburn and finished #6 their recruiting class for the next two seasons avg was #60. Guess what it was the two seasons before? #61. Carey, Doeren,Kill, Hammock all recruit the same level of athlete. And we all know that finding a two star who makes it to the NFL is mostly luck. So yes Carey left this team a little dry. But it’s filled with the same recruit “level” of athletes that any NIU coach would have recruited. It’s a matter of development some times...I.e. Tucker developed...Tears regressed.

Carey was a great coach for that 60 to 100 level. I think we all want NIU get back to a 20 to 50 type team. It will take Hammock some time to get some talented players in here, and I have faith he is the right guy to do that. He may not be, but the way NIU was headed and the trajectory NIU was on, I fully embrace a rebuild.

Hammock is not going to get better athletes in here. He’s going to get the same guys all Mac teams get. We will never have 20-50 level talent here. App state doesn’t have top 50 level talent. They’re just using there 90-100 level talent very effectively while playing a super soft schedule...sound familiar?

Not as a High School recruit, but he can through transfers with the new rules. So many players leaving because they go to the Big Ten school or SEC school and then ride the pine. Come here to NIU and play right away. Not saying hes going to land many, but one or two would make a huge difference at a MAC school IMO.

FYI, the penalties in the beginning of the year reared its ugly head numerous times last year. We had multiple games where we have copious amount of penalties so let's not act like this was a Hammock problem...

(11-04-2019 12:25 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  For the talent sucks crowd, just look at the Bears for a great example of talent vs execution. The Bears came in absolutely loaded with offensive talent. But this year their execution is horrendous. If this was the first time you’d seen them play you’d say they have no talent on offense(outside of Robinson). But we know it’s not true. Talent doesn’t get to show if the coaches can’t get on the same page as the players.

Carey was the worst in-game coach probably in the program's history, but he was able to win the games he should win because had difference makers like Kenny G, Sutton Smith, and Jordan Lynch. They covered up MUCH of the coaching problem. Huskies just don't have those type of impact players right now

(11-04-2019 03:12 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 12:25 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  For the talent sucks crowd, just look at the Bears for a great example of talent vs execution. The Bears came in absolutely loaded with offensive talent. But this year their execution is horrendous. If this was the first time you’d seen them play you’d say they have no talent on offense(outside of Robinson). But we know it’s not true. Talent doesn’t get to show if the coaches can’t get on the same page as the players.

Carey was the worst in-game coach probably in the program's history, but he was able to win the games he should win because had difference makers like Kenny G, Sutton Smith, and Jordan Lynch. They covered up MUCH of the coaching problem. Huskies just don't have those type of impact players right now

That’s how you win in the MAC. Woodside, Corie Davis, Matt Johnson. How’s Toledo doing without a star player??

(11-04-2019 03:34 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 03:12 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 12:25 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  For the talent sucks crowd, just look at the Bears for a great example of talent vs execution. The Bears came in absolutely loaded with offensive talent. But this year their execution is horrendous. If this was the first time you’d seen them play you’d say they have no talent on offense(outside of Robinson). But we know it’s not true. Talent doesn’t get to show if the coaches can’t get on the same page as the players.

Carey was the worst in-game coach probably in the program's history, but he was able to win the games he should win because had difference makers like Kenny G, Sutton Smith, and Jordan Lynch. They covered up MUCH of the coaching problem. Huskies just don't have those type of impact players right now

That’s how you win in the MAC. Woodside, Corie Davis, Matt Johnson. How’s Toledo doing without a star player??

OK so at least we agree, talent upgrades in desperate need right now

(11-04-2019 02:19 PM)badmoonrising13 Wrote:  FYI, the penalties in the beginning of the year reared its ugly head numerous times last year. We had multiple games where we have copious amount of penalties so let's not act like this was a Hammock problem...

Looking at the stats, we'd be on pace for 641 yards of penalties this year if we played 14 games. Last year we had 856. # of penalties has decreased a similar amount. Every year going back to 2013 at least had more than 640 yards in penalties.

(11-04-2019 04:16 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 02:19 PM)badmoonrising13 Wrote:  FYI, the penalties in the beginning of the year reared its ugly head numerous times last year. We had multiple games where we have copious amount of penalties so let's not act like this was a Hammock problem...

Looking at the stats, we'd be on pace for 641 yards of penalties this year if we played 14 games. Last year we had 856. # of penalties has decreased a similar amount. Every year going back to 2013 at least had more than 640 yards in penalties.

But that doesnt fit the fire Hammock narrative :)

(11-04-2019 05:39 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 04:16 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 02:19 PM)badmoonrising13 Wrote:  FYI, the penalties in the beginning of the year reared its ugly head numerous times last year. We had multiple games where we have copious amount of penalties so let's not act like this was a Hammock problem...

Looking at the stats, we'd be on pace for 641 yards of penalties this year if we played 14 games. Last year we had 856. # of penalties has decreased a similar amount. Every year going back to 2013 at least had more than 640 yards in penalties.

But that doesnt fit the fire Hammock narrative :)

Good find. Amazing to think that the Ball State game accounted for 110 yards in one game. I was thinking that the penalties were off the chart when in actually they're better.

Usually after a loss I invoke the 24 hour rule to get over it. The CMU loss took 48 hours, and more beers than I care to admit.

This last game was a complete breakdown on both sides of the ball. Let's hope that the team and coaches have done some soul searching and buckle down for the last three games to salvage the season, although I'm not optimistic.

With the injuries and production drop-off this year is reminiscent of 2007.

If bowers doesn't throw the picks in the second half it's a ballgame. CMU missing three FGs would've given us a chance had we just focused on getting first down instead of panicking and forcing throws. Kind of shows the inexperience / immaturity of our current staff. Hopefully, they're doing a lot of reflecting and second guessing so they are not so panicked if they're in that situation again. Hopefully not...

(11-04-2019 09:09 PM)badmoonrising13 Wrote:  If bowers doesn't throw the picks in the second half it's a ballgame. CMU missing three FGs would've given us a chance had we just focused on getting first down instead of panicking and forcing throws. Kind of shows the inexperience / immaturity of our current staff. Hopefully, they're doing a lot of reflecting and second guessing so they are not so panicked if they're in that situation again. Hopefully not...

I don't know badmoon, I think its easy to say if a and b and c and d and e and f went a certain way , NIU would be a good team, but that is what bad teams do, they don't do those things or are not able to do them. I hate to harp on this so much, but I think its important that problems in talent are identified because if a problem is not diagnosed, it is impossible to fix. We have not seen this low of a talent pool on an NIU team probably since Novak's last season

I think it was more of a panic/maturity issue. If the coaching staff emphasized at halftime that there was plenty of time and there was no need to anything extra. Just execute the offense and not force anything, and the defense got lucky when CMU missed a bunch of kicks. Those turnovers killed any chance of coming back. Hopefully, the coaches learned this or they will be able to set a better tone/demeanor in the future. I really think a more mature staff gets the guys to rally in the second half and it's a ballgame...