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Ideal AAC expansion plan
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #1
Ideal AAC expansion plan
If the goal of the AAC is to be the de facto P6 then your rebuild plan is to land Air Force, BYU, and Boise St as a package deal.

AAC EAST: Temple, ECU, USF, UCF, Cincy, Memphis, Tulane
AAC WEST: SMU, Houston, Tulsa, Wich St/Navy, BYU, Boise St

Basketball scheduling—double round robin within division, single round robin in the opposite division for a 19 game conference schedule

Football scheduling—no mandatory cross division games, this provides greater scheduling flexibility for programs like BYU, and more opportunities to play and beat P5s.

I’ll be hard pressed to find a scenario where the MAC, SBC, C-USA, or the weakened MWC can produce a champ that looks better than what the AAC can produce.

Thoughts?
10-22-2019 04:40 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: Ideal AAC expansion plan
As I mentioned in another thread:

G5 + more G5 =/= P6
10-22-2019 04:49 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: Ideal AAC expansion plan
(10-22-2019 04:49 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  As I mentioned in another thread:

G5 + more G5 =/= P6

Yes it does. The AAC is already the best G5 league and some dead weight just volunteered to leave. Grabbing the cream of the next best G5 league just furthers the divide between the AAC and the next best league, and increases the likelihood that your champ will be superior to the other 4 when the committee chooses who gets that NY6 slot.
10-22-2019 05:04 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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RE: Ideal AAC expansion plan
(10-22-2019 04:40 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the goal of the AAC is to be the de facto P6 then your rebuild plan is to land Air Force, BYU, and Boise St as a package deal.

AAC EAST: Temple, ECU, USF, UCF, Cincy, Memphis, Tulane
AAC WEST: SMU, Houston, Tulsa, Wich St/Navy, BYU, Boise St

Basketball scheduling—double round robin within division, single round robin in the opposite division for a 19 game conference schedule

Football scheduling—no mandatory cross division games, this provides greater scheduling flexibility for programs like BYU, and more opportunities to play and beat P5s.

I’ll be hard pressed to find a scenario where the MAC, SBC, C-USA, or the weakened MWC can produce a champ that looks better than what the AAC can produce.

Thoughts?

Why do divisions in basketball?

The AAC will always be prevented from being a true power conference (TV revenue and brand recognition) due to its lack of a true power program to anchor it. However, the AAC is well on its way towards moving away from the rest of the G5 in terms of on-field success and resources. Ideally, it could take Army, Air Force, Boise State and BYU, while shredding some of its bottom weight, but none of those programs are likely to want to join the AAC for various reasons.

Football expansion aside, I am curious if the AAC would end up inviting VCU as a non-football member just to try and offset the loss of UConn Basketball - regardless if they get paired with a football-only member. It can't possibly be a cost concern, since WSU isn't making that much in relation to the rest of the league, and VCU would be a regular threat to be a tournament team (with potential to make a deep run every now and then) which would help with tournament credit distribution.
10-22-2019 05:14 PM
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Shox Offline
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RE: Ideal AAC expansion plan
I'm good with VCU or Dayton and maybe both if we land Army.
10-22-2019 05:19 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: Ideal AAC expansion plan
(10-22-2019 05:04 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 04:49 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  As I mentioned in another thread:

G5 + more G5 =/= P6

Yes it does. The AAC is already the best G5 league and some dead weight just volunteered to leave. Grabbing the cream of the next best G5 league just furthers the divide between the AAC and the next best league, and increases the likelihood that your champ will be superior to the other 4 when the committee chooses who gets that NY6 slot.

Improving one's odds at getting the G5 NY6 bid does not exactly help much with the financial disparity, the lack of autonomy, etc. It just reinforces that you're the tallest of the midgets. Do you really think the existing power conferences are just going to up and welcome the AAC into the club, bestowing upon them all the current P5 privileges and sharing a much larger portion of the money pie with them? What would possibly compel such a move? The business of college sports is not altruistic in the least.
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2019 05:32 PM by Nerdlinger.)
10-22-2019 05:31 PM
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RE: Ideal AAC expansion plan
(10-22-2019 05:31 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 05:04 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 04:49 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  As I mentioned in another thread:

G5 + more G5 =/= P6

Yes it does. The AAC is already the best G5 league and some dead weight just volunteered to leave. Grabbing the cream of the next best G5 league just furthers the divide between the AAC and the next best league, and increases the likelihood that your champ will be superior to the other 4 when the committee chooses who gets that NY6 slot.

Improving one's odds at getting the G5 NY6 bid does not exactly help much with the financial disparity, the lack of autonomy, etc. It just reinforces that you're the tallest of the midgets. Do you really think the existing power conferences are just going to up and welcome the AAC into the club, bestowing upon them all the current P5 privileges and sharing a much larger portion of the money pie with them? What would possibly compel such a move? The business of college sports is not altruistic in the least.

Thats not how it works. If you are able to add those pieces, the AAC becomes a more interesting conference with a larger fan base. As more and more people enjoy the brand, become intrigued with some of the matchups, and get used to seeing it on NYD--it will slowly become a conference that the major outlets dont want to ignore. In other words, there is no invite. You build the audience until you belong. lol....It also aint happening overnight---but I suppose it could be helped along a bit by the right additions.
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2019 05:57 PM by Attackcoog.)
10-22-2019 05:57 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: Ideal AAC expansion plan
You don’t have to be accepted into the club, you just have to continue to dominate against G Competition.

NY6 appearances will lead to earning more playoff money which in turn should trickle down into better bowls and eventually a better tv contract when it comes up for negotiation.
10-22-2019 06:04 PM
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Big Frog II Offline
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RE: Ideal AAC expansion plan
No cross country conference. Pick Army or UAB if they have to add someone.
10-22-2019 06:18 PM
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AppfanInCAAland Offline
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RE: Ideal AAC expansion plan
(10-22-2019 05:19 PM)Shox Wrote:  I'm good with VCU or Dayton and maybe both if we land Army.

I have it on good authority direct from a VCU big-wig that VCU and Dayton told the AAC no when Wichita was added and UConn was still there. Doubt they change their minds with UConn gone.
10-22-2019 06:29 PM
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Side Show Joe Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Ideal AAC expansion plan
The AAC will expand. I've said it before... programs have a few years to get their houses in order. When the AAC finally makes their choice, I'm almost positive they will add whichever team has the best combination of money, facilities, location, brand, and success, although I have no idea which of those factors might have the most influence on their decision. If you want to know which programs are making a serious push at getting that spot in the AAC, just look at which programs are investing the most money. Follow the money. It's that easy.
10-22-2019 06:31 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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RE: Ideal AAC expansion plan
(10-22-2019 06:29 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 05:19 PM)Shox Wrote:  I'm good with VCU or Dayton and maybe both if we land Army.

I have it on good authority direct from a VCU big-wig that VCU and Dayton told the AAC no when Wichita was added and UConn was still there. Doubt they change their minds with UConn gone.

Pretty sure whoever said that was wrong. There was no move to expand that large when Wichita was added. But even if its correct---the deal Wichita got in was ZERO in media income until the new deal kicks in for 2020. So...not surprised a school would pass under those conditions. That said, that doesnt mean your source is not completely correct that VCU isnt interested. Of course, even if the source was correct at that time----now that the Big East has added UConn and is done expanding for a long time---and now that the AAC new TV deal is a known quantity----VCU might have a different view.
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2019 06:38 PM by Attackcoog.)
10-22-2019 06:33 PM
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AppfanInCAAland Offline
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RE: Ideal AAC expansion plan
(10-22-2019 06:33 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 06:29 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 05:19 PM)Shox Wrote:  I'm good with VCU or Dayton and maybe both if we land Army.

I have it on good authority direct from a VCU big-wig that VCU and Dayton told the AAC no when Wichita was added and UConn was still there. Doubt they change their minds with UConn gone.

Pretty sure whoever said that was wrong. There was no move to expand that large when Wichita was added. But even if its correct---the deal Wichita got in was ZERO in media income until the new deal kicks in for 2020. So...not surprised a school would pass under those conditions. That said, that doesnt mean your source is not completely correct that VCU isnt interested. Of course, even if the source was correct at that time----now that the Big East has added UConn and is done expanding for a long time---and now that the AAC new TV deal is a known quantity----VCU might have a different view.

My source may have been wrong, but he does work in the VCU athletic department with the basketball team so I doubt it. I don't think anything reached the point of seriousness. More like feelers to gauge interest than formal talks.
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2019 06:46 PM by AppfanInCAAland.)
10-22-2019 06:45 PM
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MWC Tex Offline
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RE: Ideal AAC expansion plan
If you just replace bad football with mediocre basketball, then UMass would be the better choice.

UConn can take UMass Indy schedule over. UMass in the AAC will take them to new heights as well as the conference itself.
10-22-2019 06:48 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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RE: Ideal AAC expansion plan
(10-22-2019 06:45 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 06:33 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 06:29 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 05:19 PM)Shox Wrote:  I'm good with VCU or Dayton and maybe both if we land Army.

I have it on good authority direct from a VCU big-wig that VCU and Dayton told the AAC no when Wichita was added and UConn was still there. Doubt they change their minds with UConn gone.

Pretty sure whoever said that was wrong. There was no move to expand that large when Wichita was added. But even if its correct---the deal Wichita got in was ZERO in media income until the new deal kicks in for 2020. So...not surprised a school would pass under those conditions. That said, that doesnt mean your source is not completely correct that VCU isnt interested. Of course, even if the source was correct at that time----now that the Big East has added UConn and is done expanding for a long time---and now that the AAC new TV deal is a known quantity----VCU might have a different view.

My source may have been wrong, but he does work in the VCU athletic department so I doubt it. I don't think anything reached the point of seriousness. More like feelers to gauge interest than formal talks.

A lot of that type quiet back door stuff can sometimes happen in casual conversations between AD's or even third party donors/VIP's---so its certainly possible. Like I said, now that Big East membership is off the table and the TV deal is known---its possible the VCU position is different---or maybe not. My whole deal is you dont add just to get to 12. If VCU says no---you dont keep going further and further down the list until you find one who says yes. You stop asking until there is a program that truly adds value and is actually worth asking. Thus, in 2022---it might only make sense to add a "football only"---or it might make more sense just to deal with the scheduling issue until a better option is available.
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2019 07:08 PM by Attackcoog.)
10-22-2019 06:51 PM
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YNot Offline
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RE: Ideal AAC expansion plan
Even better, once CCG deregulation arrives, go to 15 with three scheduling divisions:

- UCF, USF, Temple, Cincinnati, ECU
- Navy, SMU, Houston, Memphis, Tulane
- Air Force, Boise State, BYU, SDSU, Tulsa

4-2-2 scheduling format with Air Force-Navy as an annual lock. CCG among the two highest-ranked teams with the best conference record. Champion plays in the Cotton Bowl against the PAC or B12 runner up. Bowl lineup also includes: Los Angeles v. PAC, Liberty v. SEC/B12, Military v. ACC/B1G, Armed Forces v. B12, First Responders v. B1G, Gasparilla v. SEC/ACC, and Cheez-It v. PAC/B12.

For Olympic sports, also invite VCU, Gonzaga, and one other TBD western Olympic sports school and go with scheduling divisions:

- UCF, USF, Temple, Cincinnati, ECU, VCU
- Wichita State, Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Tulane, Memphis
- Air Force, BYU, SDSU, Boise State, Gonzaga, TBD

18-game schedule with 10 intradivision games and 4 games against each of the other two divisions. Only two 2-game out-of-region road trips per season. Conference tournament rotates among Orlando, New Orleans, and Las Vegas. Division winners get automatic bye to the quarterfinals.
10-22-2019 07:05 PM
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Lopes87 Offline
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RE: Ideal AAC expansion plan
(10-22-2019 07:05 PM)YNot Wrote:  Even better, once CCG deregulation arrives, go to 15 with three scheduling divisions:

- UCF, USF, Temple, Cincinnati, ECU
- Navy, SMU, Houston, Memphis, Tulane
- Air Force, Boise State, BYU, SDSU, Tulsa

4-2-2 scheduling format with Air Force-Navy as an annual lock. CCG among the two highest-ranked teams with the best conference record. Champion plays in the Cotton Bowl against the PAC or B12 runner up. Bowl lineup also includes: Los Angeles v. PAC, Liberty v. SEC/B12, Military v. ACC/B1G, Armed Forces v. B12, First Responders v. B1G, Gasparilla v. SEC/ACC, and Cheez-It v. PAC/B12.

For Olympic sports, also invite VCU, Gonzaga, and one other TBD western Olympic sports school and go with scheduling divisions:

- UCF, USF, Temple, Cincinnati, ECU, VCU
- Wichita State, Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Tulane, Memphis
- Air Force, BYU, SDSU, Boise State, Gonzaga, TBD

18-game schedule with 10 intradivision games and 4 games against each of the other two divisions. Only two 2-game out-of-region road trips per season. Conference tournament rotates among Orlando, New Orleans, and Las Vegas. Division winners get automatic bye to the quarterfinals.

That TBD western Olympic sports school would have to come from the WAC/BigWest/WCC. So you are looking at StMarys GCU Long Beach State to name a few options.
10-22-2019 07:18 PM
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EvilVodka Offline
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RE: Ideal AAC expansion plan
(10-22-2019 04:40 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the goal of the AAC is to be the de facto P6 then your rebuild plan is to land Air Force, BYU, and Boise St as a package deal.

AAC EAST: Temple, ECU, USF, UCF, Cincy, Memphis, Tulane
AAC WEST: SMU, Houston, Tulsa, Wich St/Navy, BYU, Boise St, Air Force

Basketball scheduling—double round robin within division, single round robin in the opposite division for a 19 game conference schedule

Football scheduling—no mandatory cross division games, this provides greater scheduling flexibility for programs like BYU, and more opportunities to play and beat P5s.

I’ll be hard pressed to find a scenario where the MAC, SBC, C-USA, or the weakened MWC can produce a champ that looks better than what the AAC can produce.

Thoughts?

I agree with you

That would be the strongest G5 conference by far. I think the key is trying to pull Boise State in, either them or BYU

I might switch Tulane and Houston in the divisions
10-22-2019 08:13 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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RE: Ideal AAC expansion plan
(10-22-2019 08:13 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 04:40 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the goal of the AAC is to be the de facto P6 then your rebuild plan is to land Air Force, BYU, and Boise St as a package deal.

AAC EAST: Temple, ECU, USF, UCF, Cincy, Memphis, Tulane
AAC WEST: SMU, Houston, Tulsa, Wich St/Navy, BYU, Boise St, Air Force

Basketball scheduling—double round robin within division, single round robin in the opposite division for a 19 game conference schedule

Football scheduling—no mandatory cross division games, this provides greater scheduling flexibility for programs like BYU, and more opportunities to play and beat P5s.

I’ll be hard pressed to find a scenario where the MAC, SBC, C-USA, or the weakened MWC can produce a champ that looks better than what the AAC can produce.

Thoughts?

I agree with you

That would be the strongest G5 conference by far. I think the key is trying to pull Boise State in, either them or BYU

I might switch Tulane and Houston in the divisions


Add VCU to have 14 in basketball. Then you have 14 in football and 12 in all sports.

That's a strong conference. It's not a true "power football" league but it's a "de facto power" (as Fighting Muskie noted).

Not sure the chances of it happening are very strong, however.
10-22-2019 08:58 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: Ideal AAC expansion plan
(10-22-2019 05:57 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 05:31 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 05:04 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 04:49 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  As I mentioned in another thread:

G5 + more G5 =/= P6

Yes it does. The AAC is already the best G5 league and some dead weight just volunteered to leave. Grabbing the cream of the next best G5 league just furthers the divide between the AAC and the next best league, and increases the likelihood that your champ will be superior to the other 4 when the committee chooses who gets that NY6 slot.

Improving one's odds at getting the G5 NY6 bid does not exactly help much with the financial disparity, the lack of autonomy, etc. It just reinforces that you're the tallest of the midgets. Do you really think the existing power conferences are just going to up and welcome the AAC into the club, bestowing upon them all the current P5 privileges and sharing a much larger portion of the money pie with them? What would possibly compel such a move? The business of college sports is not altruistic in the least.

Thats not how it works. If you are able to add those pieces, the AAC becomes a more interesting conference with a larger fan base. As more and more people enjoy the brand, become intrigued with some of the matchups, and get used to seeing it on NYD--it will slowly become a conference that the major outlets dont want to ignore. In other words, there is no invite. You build the audience until you belong. lol....It also aint happening overnight---but I suppose it could be helped along a bit by the right additions.

The AAC is prudent to strive for greatness, even though it's not there and never will be. A couple AAC schools might be promoted in a realignment of the power conferences, but the entire conference will never be a true power itself. I don't mean to be a downer, but this is reality. FWIW, I think Houston stands an outside chance of promotion, though it would only be at the expense of some current P5 schools.

(10-22-2019 06:04 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  You don’t have to be accepted into the club, you just have to continue to dominate against G Competition.

NY6 appearances will lead to earning more playoff money which in turn should trickle down into better bowls and eventually a better tv contract when it comes up for negotiation.

The problem with dominating against G5 competition is that it doesn't do much for your SOS, actual or perceived. The AAC would need to dominate against P5 competition, and there's an insurmountable gap in resources available to be able to get to that point. Hence why most G5 schools rely heavily on student fees just to keep their football programs afloat.
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2019 09:37 PM by Nerdlinger.)
10-22-2019 09:35 PM
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