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Been quiet on the rumors front...
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murrdcu Offline
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Been quiet on the rumors front...
Been very quite this season in regards to realignment rumors. Here’s the first one I’ve even seen mentioned. I have to wonder if it looks like the Big 12 could add members, is it possible to poach one or two of their members during that time period. If not, don’t expect and additions to the SEC until the next TV negotiations as all the other viable candidates will still be locked away in GOR rights.

Anyway, here is what I stumbled across:

SWAIM SPORTS, LLC
@GSwaim
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VERY interesting rumors circulating at #Big12 Media Days about #ArizonaState and #Arizona dumping the #Pac12 for the Central Time Zone games for more national exposure. Stay tuned for much more conference realignment as we get closer to TV renegotiations.

Clearly the #Big12 was the weakest conference in every sense, but they have clearly been replaced by the #Pac12, who is extremely weak in the only two sports producing revenue.
10-22-2019 01:14 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Been quiet on the rumors front...
(10-22-2019 01:14 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  Been very quite this season in regards to realignment rumors. Here’s the first one I’ve even seen mentioned. I have to wonder if it looks like the Big 12 could add members, is it possible to poach one or two of their members during that time period. If not, don’t expect and additions to the SEC until the next TV negotiations as all the other viable candidates will still be locked away in GOR rights.

Anyway, here is what I stumbled across:

SWAIM SPORTS, LLC
@GSwaim
·
44m
VERY interesting rumors circulating at #Big12 Media Days about #ArizonaState and #Arizona dumping the #Pac12 for the Central Time Zone games for more national exposure. Stay tuned for much more conference realignment as we get closer to TV renegotiations.

Clearly the #Big12 was the weakest conference in every sense, but they have clearly been replaced by the #Pac12, who is extremely weak in the only two sports producing revenue.

There is too much to be settled before realignment kicks up again. We have to decide on whether we want pay for play or just allow players to profit from their own images. And then there is the TV model question. is streaming the future or just another platform?

The SEC will know by 2022 if it wants to expand and if so who is available. The Big 10 is in roughly the same window. The PAC GOR and Big 12 GOR are up at the same time.

What that means is that the Big 12 could add from the PAC or the PAC could add from the Big 12, or possibly the larger schools take the expirations as an opportunity to form a better conference by starting a new one sans some of the privates and possibly OSU or WSU.

What we have are two weak conferences and a middler and two strong ones. The ACC is locked into a woeful contract until 2037 which is past peak revenue for college sports because it is past Boomers as a statistically relevant part of the market.

Take the 4 California schools, the two Arizona schools and Washington and Oregon and add them to Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Colorado, Utah, Iowa State and Kansas and you have a solid 16 and K State, Washington State, Oregon State and B.Y.U. and you have a very solid 20.

Let the Big 10 and SEC parse the ACC and you could construct an extremely healthy and competitive P3 of 20 schools each.

The addition of Notre Dame, North Carolina, Virginia, Syracuse, Duke and Georgia Tech to the Big 10 vastly expands their reach to the East.

Clemson, Florida State, N.C. State, Virginia Tech, T.C.U. and either Louisville or WVU would take the SEC to a very solid 20.

Now why would any of this happen? Money. It would bring better weekly match ups to the networks, it eliminates 5 of the weaker programs from the P5, and it gets the ACC out of a lousy contract and permits Texas to feel somewhat more in charge of their fate than they currently are. It also allows the PAC to get out of a lousy setup and for the better schools to maximize their content value and sign with a network for T3 rights.

For the Big 10 and SEC it gives them the markets and more natural additions they actually want rather than being forced to expand into the interior.

How is it even possible? It takes 12 ACC schools to dissolve the conference and N.D. has a vote. The Big 12 and PAC GOR's are up at the same time. And everyone would profit.
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2019 02:55 PM by JRsec.)
10-22-2019 01:37 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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RE: Been quiet on the rumors front...
I keep debating with myself over the notion of Arizona and Arizona State leaving the PAC 12.

On one hand, it makes sense. On the other, it seems impossible.

Against: The AZ schools recruit very heavily in the state of CA. They get students from there as well as athletes. At this point, it's a logical question to ask whether the AZ schools would even be interested in moving conferences much less actually pulling the trigger.

For: The PAC 12 is weakening. Major athletics...the kind that funds big time departments seem to be waning in interest among the population bases of the West Coast. The PAC 12 Network was an unmitigated failure and they seem unwilling or unable to find a network partner to make the project more profitable.

Additionally, I think it's a reasonable question to ask whether or not the AZ schools would actually lose a great deal of momentum with CA kids if they shifted conferences. The proximity of the schools will remain the same either way. Will it hurt their ability to attract students from a neighboring state...especially one where the cost of higher education has gotten out of hand. Maybe not.

As far as athletes go, it's true that they will have a tougher time recruiting CA if they aren't playing in those markets. With that said, are the AZ schools hitting a bunch of home runs there anyway? As it stands, the only real talent pool in PAC 12 territory is CA. Even then, the lion's share of those players are coming from Southern CA. Absolutely everyone in the PAC is recruiting those regions. The Mountain West is recruiting those regions for players that don't quite measure up to the elite status. The best programs back East are yanking top prospects too simply because the PAC 12 has fallen on hard times. What about the possibility of opening up new markets for recruits? Lots of players in TX and exposure in the Central Time Zone could really pay off. As it stands, no one in the PAC really pulls players from the other parts of the country if for no more reason than the other parts of the country rarely ever see those teams on TV. Something to think about maybe.

If the AZ schools moved to the Big 12 then that league could divide up into a traditional divisional format although with the way things are moving it's possible no one is even interested in that aspect of it. Perhaps it's simply a matter of the Big 12 wanting more inventory and more markets.

So I don't doubt that the Big 12 would go for that. It's questionable whether the AZ schools would be interested, but I can't dismiss it out of hand.

The biggest problem for the Big 12 would be what to do with West Virginia? They're on an island already, but stretching onto another island would be a little awkward.

What about this?

West Virginia moves on to the ACC. Arizona and Arizona State move to the Big 12 and BYU fills out the last slot?
10-22-2019 03:04 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Been quiet on the rumors front...
(10-22-2019 03:04 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I keep debating with myself over the notion of Arizona and Arizona State leaving the PAC 12.

On one hand, it makes sense. On the other, it seems impossible.

Against: The AZ schools recruit very heavily in the state of CA. They get students from there as well as athletes. At this point, it's a logical question to ask whether the AZ schools would even be interested in moving conferences much less actually pulling the trigger.

For: The PAC 12 is weakening. Major athletics...the kind that funds big time departments seem to be waning in interest among the population bases of the West Coast. The PAC 12 Network was an unmitigated failure and they seem unwilling or unable to find a network partner to make the project more profitable.

Additionally, I think it's a reasonable question to ask whether or not the AZ schools would actually lose a great deal of momentum with CA kids if they shifted conferences. The proximity of the schools will remain the same either way. Will it hurt their ability to attract students from a neighboring state...especially one where the cost of higher education has gotten out of hand. Maybe not.

As far as athletes go, it's true that they will have a tougher time recruiting CA if they aren't playing in those markets. With that said, are the AZ schools hitting a bunch of home runs there anyway? As it stands, the only real talent pool in PAC 12 territory is CA. Even then, the lion's share of those players are coming from Southern CA. Absolutely everyone in the PAC is recruiting those regions. The Mountain West is recruiting those regions for players that don't quite measure up to the elite status. The best programs back East are yanking top prospects too simply because the PAC 12 has fallen on hard times. What about the possibility of opening up new markets for recruits? Lots of players in TX and exposure in the Central Time Zone could really pay off. As it stands, no one in the PAC really pulls players from the other parts of the country if for no more reason than the other parts of the country rarely ever see those teams on TV. Something to think about maybe.

If the AZ schools moved to the Big 12 then that league could divide up into a traditional divisional format although with the way things are moving it's possible no one is even interested in that aspect of it. Perhaps it's simply a matter of the Big 12 wanting more inventory and more markets.

So I don't doubt that the Big 12 would go for that. It's questionable whether the AZ schools would be interested, but I can't dismiss it out of hand.

The biggest problem for the Big 12 would be what to do with West Virginia? They're on an island already, but stretching onto another island would be a little awkward.

What about this?

West Virginia moves on to the ACC. Arizona and Arizona State move to the Big 12 and BYU fills out the last slot?

That's a reasonable move to get to 12. But the PAC would suffer even more diminished value to the networks as a result. Would that be enough to make Colorado and Utah consider the Big 12 as well? And if so then the whole ball of thread starts to come unwound.

That's why since both GOR's expire within a year of each other it is not out of the question to think of a scenario where the strongest of the PAC join the strongest of the Big 12 and form an new conference. After all Texas has done this once before rather than capitulate to joining the SEC or Big 10, when the SWC merged with the Big 8 to form the Big 12. And quite frankly if you want to dissolve a good portion of the revenue gap that approach makes the most sense.
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2019 03:16 PM by JRsec.)
10-22-2019 03:14 PM
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RE: Been quiet on the rumors front...
(10-22-2019 03:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 03:04 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I keep debating with myself over the notion of Arizona and Arizona State leaving the PAC 12.

On one hand, it makes sense. On the other, it seems impossible.

Against: The AZ schools recruit very heavily in the state of CA. They get students from there as well as athletes. At this point, it's a logical question to ask whether the AZ schools would even be interested in moving conferences much less actually pulling the trigger.

For: The PAC 12 is weakening. Major athletics...the kind that funds big time departments seem to be waning in interest among the population bases of the West Coast. The PAC 12 Network was an unmitigated failure and they seem unwilling or unable to find a network partner to make the project more profitable.

Additionally, I think it's a reasonable question to ask whether or not the AZ schools would actually lose a great deal of momentum with CA kids if they shifted conferences. The proximity of the schools will remain the same either way. Will it hurt their ability to attract students from a neighboring state...especially one where the cost of higher education has gotten out of hand. Maybe not.

As far as athletes go, it's true that they will have a tougher time recruiting CA if they aren't playing in those markets. With that said, are the AZ schools hitting a bunch of home runs there anyway? As it stands, the only real talent pool in PAC 12 territory is CA. Even then, the lion's share of those players are coming from Southern CA. Absolutely everyone in the PAC is recruiting those regions. The Mountain West is recruiting those regions for players that don't quite measure up to the elite status. The best programs back East are yanking top prospects too simply because the PAC 12 has fallen on hard times. What about the possibility of opening up new markets for recruits? Lots of players in TX and exposure in the Central Time Zone could really pay off. As it stands, no one in the PAC really pulls players from the other parts of the country if for no more reason than the other parts of the country rarely ever see those teams on TV. Something to think about maybe.

If the AZ schools moved to the Big 12 then that league could divide up into a traditional divisional format although with the way things are moving it's possible no one is even interested in that aspect of it. Perhaps it's simply a matter of the Big 12 wanting more inventory and more markets.

So I don't doubt that the Big 12 would go for that. It's questionable whether the AZ schools would be interested, but I can't dismiss it out of hand.

The biggest problem for the Big 12 would be what to do with West Virginia? They're on an island already, but stretching onto another island would be a little awkward.

What about this?

West Virginia moves on to the ACC. Arizona and Arizona State move to the Big 12 and BYU fills out the last slot?

That's a reasonable move to get to 12. But the PAC would suffer even more diminished value to the networks as a result. Would that be enough to make Colorado and Utah consider the Big 12 as well? And if so then the whole ball of thread starts to come unwound.

That's why since both GOR's expire within a year of each other it is not out of the question to think of a scenario where the strongest of the PAC join the strongest of the Big 12 and form an new conference. After all Texas has done this once before rather than capitulate to joining the SEC or Big 10, when the SWC merged with the Big 8 to form the Big 12. And quite frankly if you want to dissolve a good portion of the revenue gap that approach makes the most sense.

I would agree that it makes the most sense, but that also assumes everyone is working with the same compass.

I think Texas and Oklahoma would go for it. I think any of the schools in the Big 12 looking to hang on would absolutely go for it...although I wouldn't mind calling up TCU at that point and asking how they felt about it. 03-wink

My contention would be with the power players in the PAC 12.

My guess would be there are several PAC schools uninterested in partnering with a healthy chunk of the Big 12. I think there would be acceptance for Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State. Outside of that, I think any PAC 12 leader would have a hard time getting on board with this.

I think the PAC 12 culture is so far removed from the Big 12 culture that an essentially equal partnership among PAC schools and Big 12 schools would be unwelcome to many PAC leaders. It's an assumption, but I think some PAC schools would be happier to deemphasize major athletics than sit shoulder to shoulder with some from the Big 12.
10-22-2019 10:25 PM
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RE: Been quiet on the rumors front...
(10-22-2019 10:25 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 03:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 03:04 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I keep debating with myself over the notion of Arizona and Arizona State leaving the PAC 12.

On one hand, it makes sense. On the other, it seems impossible.

Against: The AZ schools recruit very heavily in the state of CA. They get students from there as well as athletes. At this point, it's a logical question to ask whether the AZ schools would even be interested in moving conferences much less actually pulling the trigger.

For: The PAC 12 is weakening. Major athletics...the kind that funds big time departments seem to be waning in interest among the population bases of the West Coast. The PAC 12 Network was an unmitigated failure and they seem unwilling or unable to find a network partner to make the project more profitable.

Additionally, I think it's a reasonable question to ask whether or not the AZ schools would actually lose a great deal of momentum with CA kids if they shifted conferences. The proximity of the schools will remain the same either way. Will it hurt their ability to attract students from a neighboring state...especially one where the cost of higher education has gotten out of hand. Maybe not.

As far as athletes go, it's true that they will have a tougher time recruiting CA if they aren't playing in those markets. With that said, are the AZ schools hitting a bunch of home runs there anyway? As it stands, the only real talent pool in PAC 12 territory is CA. Even then, the lion's share of those players are coming from Southern CA. Absolutely everyone in the PAC is recruiting those regions. The Mountain West is recruiting those regions for players that don't quite measure up to the elite status. The best programs back East are yanking top prospects too simply because the PAC 12 has fallen on hard times. What about the possibility of opening up new markets for recruits? Lots of players in TX and exposure in the Central Time Zone could really pay off. As it stands, no one in the PAC really pulls players from the other parts of the country if for no more reason than the other parts of the country rarely ever see those teams on TV. Something to think about maybe.

If the AZ schools moved to the Big 12 then that league could divide up into a traditional divisional format although with the way things are moving it's possible no one is even interested in that aspect of it. Perhaps it's simply a matter of the Big 12 wanting more inventory and more markets.

So I don't doubt that the Big 12 would go for that. It's questionable whether the AZ schools would be interested, but I can't dismiss it out of hand.

The biggest problem for the Big 12 would be what to do with West Virginia? They're on an island already, but stretching onto another island would be a little awkward.

What about this?

West Virginia moves on to the ACC. Arizona and Arizona State move to the Big 12 and BYU fills out the last slot?

That's a reasonable move to get to 12. But the PAC would suffer even more diminished value to the networks as a result. Would that be enough to make Colorado and Utah consider the Big 12 as well? And if so then the whole ball of thread starts to come unwound.

That's why since both GOR's expire within a year of each other it is not out of the question to think of a scenario where the strongest of the PAC join the strongest of the Big 12 and form an new conference. After all Texas has done this once before rather than capitulate to joining the SEC or Big 10, when the SWC merged with the Big 8 to form the Big 12. And quite frankly if you want to dissolve a good portion of the revenue gap that approach makes the most sense.

I would agree that it makes the most sense, but that also assumes everyone is working with the same compass.

I think Texas and Oklahoma would go for it. I think any of the schools in the Big 12 looking to hang on would absolutely go for it...although I wouldn't mind calling up TCU at that point and asking how they felt about it. 03-wink

My contention would be with the power players in the PAC 12.

My guess would be there are several PAC schools uninterested in partnering with a healthy chunk of the Big 12. I think there would be acceptance for Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State. Outside of that, I think any PAC 12 leader would have a hard time getting on board with this.

I think the PAC 12 culture is so far removed from the Big 12 culture that an essentially equal partnership among PAC schools and Big 12 schools would be unwelcome to many PAC leaders. It's an assumption, but I think some PAC schools would be happier to deemphasize major athletics than sit shoulder to shoulder with some from the Big 12.

Because of the California schools I give any of it a fairly low probability. I don't think the Arizona schools make that move for athletic money when they rely upon enrollment from Southern California. So I think the concept is moot. And that's too bad. Athletically I think it would bring balance and rejuvenate some of the interest out West.

The whole premise of this line of thinking is that it would provide Texas and Oklahoma with a reasonable path without having to butt heads with Alabama, L.S.U. Georgia, Florida and Auburn, or having to do the same with Ohio State, Penn State, Wisconsin, and Michigan.

So the PAC would earn more competitively by making such a move and at 20 teams they don't have to lose any of their current members which might be a sticking point.

Dividing the ACC between the Big 10 and SEC makes 12 of their schools a competitive wage for media, something they simply don't merit on their own.

Absorb the weakest between the two strongest and merge the PAC with the best of the Big 12 and there's your balance, without upsetting too many apple carts in the process.

Culling members on the East coast also makes more sense because there is too little density out West to justify it.
10-22-2019 10:39 PM
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RE: Been quiet on the rumors front...
There's no way that the Big XII can pull the AZ schools. I agree that a larger scale merger with the PAC and many Big XII schools (and unlikely, but maybe even a return of Nebraska) involved would both make it more palatable for the Big XII schools (keeping a significant percentage of their games against familiar opponents and more importantly in the Central time zone) and more palatable for the PAC schools (they stay mostly on the coast, but the conference gains almost everything significant in the Central to Western U.S., with lots of inventory in the desirable Central time zone.)

There'd be a host of challenges not the least of which would be cultural issues, but it seems more likely that something huge like that would happen rather than a small scale raid by the Big XII.
10-23-2019 11:07 PM
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RE: Been quiet on the rumors front...
(10-23-2019 11:07 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  There's no way that the Big XII can pull the AZ schools. I agree that a larger scale merger with the PAC and many Big XII schools (and unlikely, but maybe even a return of Nebraska) involved would both make it more palatable for the Big XII schools (keeping a significant percentage of their games against familiar opponents and more importantly in the Central time zone) and more palatable for the PAC schools (they stay mostly on the coast, but the conference gains almost everything significant in the Central to Western U.S., with lots of inventory in the desirable Central time zone.)

There'd be a host of challenges not the least of which would be cultural issues, but it seems more likely that something huge like that would happen rather than a small scale raid by the Big XII.

You mean something more like this:

Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State
Arizona, Arizona State, California, U.C.L.A., U.S.C.
Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State
Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas State, Utah


And the Big 10 gives up Nebraska so they can put this together:
Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin
Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue
Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Rutgers, Syracuse
Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami, North Carolina, Virginia


And the SEC could put together this:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt
Kentucky, Louisville, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia Tech
Clemson, Georgia, Florida, Florida State, South Carolina
10-23-2019 11:42 PM
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RE: Been quiet on the rumors front...
(10-23-2019 11:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 11:07 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  There's no way that the Big XII can pull the AZ schools. I agree that a larger scale merger with the PAC and many Big XII schools (and unlikely, but maybe even a return of Nebraska) involved would both make it more palatable for the Big XII schools (keeping a significant percentage of their games against familiar opponents and more importantly in the Central time zone) and more palatable for the PAC schools (they stay mostly on the coast, but the conference gains almost everything significant in the Central to Western U.S., with lots of inventory in the desirable Central time zone.)

There'd be a host of challenges not the least of which would be cultural issues, but it seems more likely that something huge like that would happen rather than a small scale raid by the Big XII.

You mean something more like this:

Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State
Arizona, Arizona State, California, U.C.L.A., U.S.C.
Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State
Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas State, Utah


And the Big 10 gives up Nebraska so they can put this together:
Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin
Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue
Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Rutgers, Syracuse
Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami, North Carolina, Virginia


And the SEC could put together this:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt
Kentucky, Louisville, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia Tech
Clemson, Georgia, Florida, Florida State, South Carolina
I like this proposal. The compensation varies with each conference now, so that will have to be addressed. I doubt any school will take less compensation. Logistics will be awful, as current conferences have to decide all kinds of issues such as existing rules, offices and staff, TV contracts, etc. There will always be some schools who will fight relocation proposals. I think Nebraska will be the first to say no to leaving the B1G. Thoughts?
(This post was last modified: 10-27-2019 12:58 AM by USAFMEDIC.)
10-27-2019 12:57 AM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Been quiet on the rumors front...
(10-27-2019 12:57 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 11:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 11:07 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  There's no way that the Big XII can pull the AZ schools. I agree that a larger scale merger with the PAC and many Big XII schools (and unlikely, but maybe even a return of Nebraska) involved would both make it more palatable for the Big XII schools (keeping a significant percentage of their games against familiar opponents and more importantly in the Central time zone) and more palatable for the PAC schools (they stay mostly on the coast, but the conference gains almost everything significant in the Central to Western U.S., with lots of inventory in the desirable Central time zone.)

There'd be a host of challenges not the least of which would be cultural issues, but it seems more likely that something huge like that would happen rather than a small scale raid by the Big XII.

You mean something more like this:

Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State
Arizona, Arizona State, California, U.C.L.A., U.S.C.
Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State
Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas State, Utah


And the Big 10 gives up Nebraska so they can put this together:
Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin
Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue
Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Rutgers, Syracuse
Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami, North Carolina, Virginia


And the SEC could put together this:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt
Kentucky, Louisville, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia Tech
Clemson, Georgia, Florida, Florida State, South Carolina
I like this proposal. The compensation varies with each conference now, so that will have to be addressed. I doubt any school will take less compensation. Logistics will be awful, as current conferences have to decide all kinds of issues such as existing rules, offices and staff, TV contracts, etc. There will always be some schools who will fight relocation proposals. I think Nebraska will be the first to say no to leaving the B1G. Thoughts?

Reasons Nebraska might say yes: It gives them back some old rivals. It places them in a conference where they would be more competitive.

But if they said no they would remain in the Big 10 and Miami would likely be left out and there would be a slight shift in each of the divisions proposed.

Since Nebraska would be the only moving part that's a minor issue. All of the Big 12 and ACC schools would be getting a better payday with the ACC getting a raise of about a 1/3rd of their current media revenue.

The question then would be whether the SEC wanted Miami or Louisville. Louisville is the better revenue producer, Miami is the better market, but a market that would be fairly well covered by Florida and F.S.U..
10-27-2019 11:02 AM
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Country_Wisdom_359 Offline
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RE: Been quiet on the rumors front...
If the SEC picks up Big 12 teams, obviously the two Oklahoma schools are attractive, and both would love to put some distance between themselves and the Longhorns.

However... I’d really love to see WVU join the SEC. The Big 12 isn’t a good geographic fit, even if that’s considered secondary to TV market acquisition. The rivalries with SEC teams would be awesome. The Mountaineers field competitive teams most years and bring some strong tradition and an engaged fan base.

Anyone else think similarly?
10-28-2019 08:32 PM
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RE: Been quiet on the rumors front...
(10-28-2019 08:32 PM)Country_Wisdom_359 Wrote:  If the SEC picks up Big 12 teams, obviously the two Oklahoma schools are attractive, and both would love to put some distance between themselves and the Longhorns.

However... I’d really love to see WVU join the SEC. The Big 12 isn’t a good geographic fit, even if that’s considered secondary to TV market acquisition. The rivalries with SEC teams would be awesome. The Mountaineers field competitive teams most years and bring some strong tradition and an engaged fan base.

Anyone else think similarly?

I would like to see West Virginia in the league as well. I wouldn't rule it out although I don't think it's super likely.

If the Big 12 disintegrates then there aren't many options for the ACC.
10-28-2019 10:53 PM
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Post: #13
RE: Been quiet on the rumors front...
(10-27-2019 11:02 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 12:57 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 11:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 11:07 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  There's no way that the Big XII can pull the AZ schools. I agree that a larger scale merger with the PAC and many Big XII schools (and unlikely, but maybe even a return of Nebraska) involved would both make it more palatable for the Big XII schools (keeping a significant percentage of their games against familiar opponents and more importantly in the Central time zone) and more palatable for the PAC schools (they stay mostly on the coast, but the conference gains almost everything significant in the Central to Western U.S., with lots of inventory in the desirable Central time zone.)

There'd be a host of challenges not the least of which would be cultural issues, but it seems more likely that something huge like that would happen rather than a small scale raid by the Big XII.

You mean something more like this:

Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State
Arizona, Arizona State, California, U.C.L.A., U.S.C.
Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State
Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas State, Utah


And the Big 10 gives up Nebraska so they can put this together:
Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin
Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue
Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Rutgers, Syracuse
Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami, North Carolina, Virginia


And the SEC could put together this:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt
Kentucky, Louisville, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia Tech
Clemson, Georgia, Florida, Florida State, South Carolina
I like this proposal. The compensation varies with each conference now, so that will have to be addressed. I doubt any school will take less compensation. Logistics will be awful, as current conferences have to decide all kinds of issues such as existing rules, offices and staff, TV contracts, etc. There will always be some schools who will fight relocation proposals. I think Nebraska will be the first to say no to leaving the B1G. Thoughts?

Reasons Nebraska might say yes: It gives them back some old rivals. It places them in a conference where they would be more competitive.

But if they said no they would remain in the Big 10 and Miami would likely be left out and there would be a slight shift in each of the divisions proposed.

Since Nebraska would be the only moving part that's a minor issue. All of the Big 12 and ACC schools would be getting a better payday with the ACC getting a raise of about a 1/3rd of their current media revenue.

The question then would be whether the SEC wanted Miami or Louisville. Louisville is the better revenue producer, Miami is the better market, but a market that would be fairly well covered by Florida and F.S.U..

If Nebraska wanted to stay there is one way you could keep Miami in the Big Ten: move Georgia Tech to the SEC. But you run into the same problems here that you do with Miami: market overlap. Between UGA and Auburn, I think you have Atlanta covered, IMO and Clemson only strengthens that, IMO.
10-29-2019 09:16 AM
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Win5002 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Been quiet on the rumors front...
(10-29-2019 09:16 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 11:02 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 12:57 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 11:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 11:07 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  There's no way that the Big XII can pull the AZ schools. I agree that a larger scale merger with the PAC and many Big XII schools (and unlikely, but maybe even a return of Nebraska) involved would both make it more palatable for the Big XII schools (keeping a significant percentage of their games against familiar opponents and more importantly in the Central time zone) and more palatable for the PAC schools (they stay mostly on the coast, but the conference gains almost everything significant in the Central to Western U.S., with lots of inventory in the desirable Central time zone.)

There'd be a host of challenges not the least of which would be cultural issues, but it seems more likely that something huge like that would happen rather than a small scale raid by the Big XII.

You mean something more like this:

Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State
Arizona, Arizona State, California, U.C.L.A., U.S.C.
Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State
Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas State, Utah


And the Big 10 gives up Nebraska so they can put this together:
Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin
Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue
Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Rutgers, Syracuse
Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami, North Carolina, Virginia


And the SEC could put together this:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt
Kentucky, Louisville, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia Tech
Clemson, Georgia, Florida, Florida State, South Carolina
I like this proposal. The compensation varies with each conference now, so that will have to be addressed. I doubt any school will take less compensation. Logistics will be awful, as current conferences have to decide all kinds of issues such as existing rules, offices and staff, TV contracts, etc. There will always be some schools who will fight relocation proposals. I think Nebraska will be the first to say no to leaving the B1G. Thoughts?

Reasons Nebraska might say yes: It gives them back some old rivals. It places them in a conference where they would be more competitive.

But if they said no they would remain in the Big 10 and Miami would likely be left out and there would be a slight shift in each of the divisions proposed.

Since Nebraska would be the only moving part that's a minor issue. All of the Big 12 and ACC schools would be getting a better payday with the ACC getting a raise of about a 1/3rd of their current media revenue.

The question then would be whether the SEC wanted Miami or Louisville. Louisville is the better revenue producer, Miami is the better market, but a market that would be fairly well covered by Florida and F.S.U..

If Nebraska wanted to stay there is one way you could keep Miami in the Big Ten: move Georgia Tech to the SEC. But you run into the same problems here that you do with Miami: market overlap. Between UGA and Auburn, I think you have Atlanta covered, IMO and Clemson only strengthens that, IMO.

If revenues are the same and the conferences are stabilized which I think they would, Nebraska would be way better off from a competition stand point to have access to Texas and California for recruits and not to be on the far western edge of the B1G.
11-04-2019 01:49 PM
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Post: #15
RE: Been quiet on the rumors front...
(10-27-2019 12:57 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 11:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 11:07 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  There's no way that the Big XII can pull the AZ schools. I agree that a larger scale merger with the PAC and many Big XII schools (and unlikely, but maybe even a return of Nebraska) involved would both make it more palatable for the Big XII schools (keeping a significant percentage of their games against familiar opponents and more importantly in the Central time zone) and more palatable for the PAC schools (they stay mostly on the coast, but the conference gains almost everything significant in the Central to Western U.S., with lots of inventory in the desirable Central time zone.)

There'd be a host of challenges not the least of which would be cultural issues, but it seems more likely that something huge like that would happen rather than a small scale raid by the Big XII.

You mean something more like this:

Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State
Arizona, Arizona State, California, U.C.L.A., U.S.C.
Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State
Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas State, Utah


And the Big 10 gives up Nebraska so they can put this together:
Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin
Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue
Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Rutgers, Syracuse
Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami, North Carolina, Virginia


And the SEC could put together this:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt
Kentucky, Louisville, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia Tech
Clemson, Georgia, Florida, Florida State, South Carolina
I like this proposal. The compensation varies with each conference now, so that will have to be addressed. I doubt any school will take less compensation. Logistics will be awful, as current conferences have to decide all kinds of issues such as existing rules, offices and staff, TV contracts, etc. There will always be some schools who will fight relocation proposals. I think Nebraska will be the first to say no to leaving the B1G. Thoughts?

If revenues were equalized it would be better for the sport overall if the SEC took Miami and West Virginia and Missouri and Arkansas shifted to the Big 12/PAC division. Miami & WVU are much greater than WSU & OSU. I think you could argue a lot of the Missouri and Arkansas fan base may actually like that situation better too.

I also think a single set of division standings even with 20 team leagues and locking in 3-4 rivals and rotating on an unbalanced schedule makes sense for these leagues. maybe even some teams never have to play each other or once in a decade or two.
11-04-2019 01:55 PM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Been quiet on the rumors front...
(11-04-2019 01:55 PM)Win5002 Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 12:57 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 11:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 11:07 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  There's no way that the Big XII can pull the AZ schools. I agree that a larger scale merger with the PAC and many Big XII schools (and unlikely, but maybe even a return of Nebraska) involved would both make it more palatable for the Big XII schools (keeping a significant percentage of their games against familiar opponents and more importantly in the Central time zone) and more palatable for the PAC schools (they stay mostly on the coast, but the conference gains almost everything significant in the Central to Western U.S., with lots of inventory in the desirable Central time zone.)

There'd be a host of challenges not the least of which would be cultural issues, but it seems more likely that something huge like that would happen rather than a small scale raid by the Big XII.

You mean something more like this:

Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State
Arizona, Arizona State, California, U.C.L.A., U.S.C.
Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State
Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas State, Utah


And the Big 10 gives up Nebraska so they can put this together:
Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin
Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue
Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Rutgers, Syracuse
Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami, North Carolina, Virginia


And the SEC could put together this:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt
Kentucky, Louisville, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia Tech
Clemson, Georgia, Florida, Florida State, South Carolina
I like this proposal. The compensation varies with each conference now, so that will have to be addressed. I doubt any school will take less compensation. Logistics will be awful, as current conferences have to decide all kinds of issues such as existing rules, offices and staff, TV contracts, etc. There will always be some schools who will fight relocation proposals. I think Nebraska will be the first to say no to leaving the B1G. Thoughts?

If revenues were equalized it would be better for the sport overall if the SEC took Miami and West Virginia and Missouri and Arkansas shifted to the Big 12/PAC division. Miami & WVU are much greater than WSU & OSU. I think you could argue a lot of the Missouri and Arkansas fan base may actually like that situation better too.

I also think a single set of division standings even with 20 team leagues and locking in 3-4 rivals and rotating on an unbalanced schedule makes sense for these leagues. maybe even some teams never have to play each other or once in a decade or two.

There's that pesky reason we left the Big XII. Texas...
Someone from Arkansas can probably better inform us as to why they baled on the Big XII.
11-08-2019 11:15 PM
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Post: #17
RE: Been quiet on the rumors front...
I'm not from Arkansas, but Arkansas left the SWC (Arkansas never joined the Big 12) is because of political moves made by Texas, if I recall.
11-09-2019 02:33 PM
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Post: #18
RE: Been quiet on the rumors front...
(11-09-2019 02:33 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I'm not from Arkansas, but Arkansas left the SWC (Arkansas never joined the Big 12) is because of political moves made by Texas, if I recall.
You are so right. Don't know how I thought that up. They did leave the SWC for the SEC, but for the same reason as Missouri. Texas. Texas will never give up the control they are so used to.04-cheers
11-11-2019 03:03 PM
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Post: #19
RE: Been quiet on the rumors front...
(11-11-2019 03:03 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(11-09-2019 02:33 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I'm not from Arkansas, but Arkansas left the SWC (Arkansas never joined the Big 12) is because of political moves made by Texas, if I recall.
You are so right. Don't know how I thought that up. They did leave the SWC for the SEC, but for the same reason as Missouri. Texas. Texas will never give up the control they are so used to.04-cheers

When SWC was about to die, Arkansas looked at moving with Texas and Texas A&M. The Big 8 was not interested in Arkansas, iirc Nebraska opposed for some reason. Once Arkansas found a safe landing spot, we bolted to the SEC and told the two Texas schools to follow. State politics got in the way and the Big 12 was formed.
11-11-2019 09:55 PM
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Post: #20
RE: Been quiet on the rumors front...
(11-11-2019 09:55 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(11-11-2019 03:03 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(11-09-2019 02:33 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I'm not from Arkansas, but Arkansas left the SWC (Arkansas never joined the Big 12) is because of political moves made by Texas, if I recall.
You are so right. Don't know how I thought that up. They did leave the SWC for the SEC, but for the same reason as Missouri. Texas. Texas will never give up the control they are so used to.04-cheers

When SWC was about to die, Arkansas looked at moving with Texas and Texas A&M. The Big 8 was not interested in Arkansas, iirc Nebraska opposed for some reason. Once Arkansas found a safe landing spot, we bolted to the SEC and told the two Texas schools to follow. State politics got in the way and the Big 12 was formed.

I don’t recall anything about Nebraska in particular but there was a weird disdain of Arkansas by the Big 8. The Razorbacks would’ve been a great fit geographically and competitively. Also, it would’ve relieved the XII argument of who got the twelfth spot between Baylor, TCU, Houston, BYU, Utah, and New Mexico. I heard all of those schools as rumors.

Regardless, I still think Arkansas and Texas A&M end up in the SEC. However, if the SEC went to 12 with South Carolina but without Arkansas or any other XII school, who would’ve gotten the twelfth spot in the SEC? Florida St said no. I don’t think Miami was all too interested. Any ideas?
11-11-2019 10:52 PM
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