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AAC Waiver Approved
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #121
RE: AAC Waiver Approved
(10-24-2019 04:21 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 03:27 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 03:16 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 03:58 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 01:10 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  If the AAC can't get a rule change to have a division-less championship permanently, and none of the obvious suspects will say yes for me the best option would be App State FB only. Then either say at 11 for hoops (since that really doesn't cause any huge issues scheduling wise) or you can consider VCU for all sports minus football.

To me, if the AAC can't get the rule changed, the best option would be to just have unbalanced divisions, with one pair of teams playing each other twice, on a rotating basis.

IMO, that is better than adding another mouth to feed that doesn't add value.

If they were to indeed finish undefeated this year and then backed it up with another big year next season they'd for me be the top choice FB only if the obvious suspects won't say yes. Aresco has been saying that he doesn't want to do the unbalanced divisions thing. Now maybe that's just because he wants to publicly posture for the rule change as long as possible and if that's not gonna happen we'll just do the 6-5 thing, but if true that we really don't want to sit at 11 without the rule change then they probably bring the most to the table FB only and wouldn't dilute basketball in any way.

Frankly---I think we dont have a candidate that is additive to value at this time. We might possibly have a "football only" addition and a "non-football" addition we could pair that would be acceptable--but I dont think we want to go that direction. Thus, the best option is to do whats necessary to function smoothly as an 11 member conference.

That said---regardless of what happens with the rule change---I think an 11 team AAC without divisions is a temporary condition. The extremely spread out geography of the AAC lends itself best to a divisional format. Less travel---more games against the closer schools that the fans would naturally tend to have more interest in.

The AAC doesn’t need a non-football add, only a football add.

Correct---but they have the option to do both if the right non-football candidate is available.
10-25-2019 12:03 AM
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CougarRed Offline
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Post: #122
RE: AAC Waiver Approved
(10-24-2019 04:53 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 02:19 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  The best AAC+G4 champ

Strange way to write "G5". Do AAC fans really buy into the Aresco propaganda?

Why not? ESPN does. Pays the AAC a lot more than the G4 leagues.
10-25-2019 06:49 AM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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Post: #123
RE: AAC Waiver Approved
(10-24-2019 03:27 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 03:16 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 03:58 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 01:10 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  If the AAC can't get a rule change to have a division-less championship permanently, and none of the obvious suspects will say yes for me the best option would be App State FB only. Then either say at 11 for hoops (since that really doesn't cause any huge issues scheduling wise) or you can consider VCU for all sports minus football.

To me, if the AAC can't get the rule changed, the best option would be to just have unbalanced divisions, with one pair of teams playing each other twice, on a rotating basis.

IMO, that is better than adding another mouth to feed that doesn't add value.

If they were to indeed finish undefeated this year and then backed it up with another big year next season they'd for me be the top choice FB only if the obvious suspects won't say yes. Aresco has been saying that he doesn't want to do the unbalanced divisions thing. Now maybe that's just because he wants to publicly posture for the rule change as long as possible and if that's not gonna happen we'll just do the 6-5 thing, but if true that we really don't want to sit at 11 without the rule change then they probably bring the most to the table FB only and wouldn't dilute basketball in any way.

Frankly---I think we dont have a candidate that is additive to value at this time. We might possibly have a "football only" addition and a "non-football" addition we could pair that would be acceptable--but I dont think we want to go that direction. Thus, the best option is to do whats necessary to function smoothly as an 11 member conference.

That said---regardless of what happens with the rule change---I think an 11 team AAC without divisions is a temporary condition. The extremely spread out geography of the AAC lends itself best to a divisional format. Less travel---more games against the closer schools that the fans would naturally tend to have more interest in.

I agree there isn't a candidate who would add value at this time that will say yes. We all know the obvious list of schools that would add value and all know they are extremely unlikely. I'm only mentioning App because I think they are the only non obvious candidate who could play their way into being valuable enough assuming there isn't a rule change and the league doesn't want to deal with the issues of unbalanced divisions. Also with App you could invite them FB only, which would lessen the share they'd take in, and because they are coming from the Sun-Belt you could probably get them to agree to any number of things regarding their share of the TV deal that would benefit the rest of the schools because even a reduced payout would be a huge financial windfall for them.
10-25-2019 08:13 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #124
RE: AAC Waiver Approved
(10-25-2019 06:49 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 04:53 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 02:19 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  The best AAC+G4 champ

Strange way to write "G5". Do AAC fans really buy into the Aresco propaganda?

Why not? ESPN does. Pays the AAC a lot more than the G4 leagues.

And much less than the P5, so....
10-25-2019 08:26 AM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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Post: #125
RE: AAC Waiver Approved
(10-25-2019 08:26 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 06:49 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 04:53 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 02:19 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  The best AAC+G4 champ

Strange way to write "G5". Do AAC fans really buy into the Aresco propaganda?

Why not? ESPN does. Pays the AAC a lot more than the G4 leagues.

And much less than the P5, so....

So if we are being honest I think most of us in the AAC know the "P6" stuff is not ever going to result in actually being on the exact same level as the other leagues. The main goal for me (and I think it's been relatively effective) is to show there is a real difference between the AAC and the other leagues and from a competition and competitiveness standpoint the AAC is closer to the power leagues than the non power ones.
10-25-2019 08:51 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #126
RE: AAC Waiver Approved
(10-25-2019 06:49 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 04:53 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 02:19 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  The best AAC+G4 champ

Strange way to write "G5". Do AAC fans really buy into the Aresco propaganda?

Why not? ESPN does. Pays the AAC a lot more than the G4 leagues.

When the AAC has their own contract "NY" bowl in the CFP system, they'll be "not Group of N" anymore. So long as their spot in the system is negotiated as part of a collection of conferences, one might even say a "group" of conferences, five in number, they'll be a Go5 conference.
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2019 09:04 AM by BruceMcF.)
10-25-2019 09:04 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #127
RE: AAC Waiver Approved
(10-24-2019 08:42 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 02:09 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I think Delany's comments here indicate that the Big10 has CLEARLY had a change of heart. Now, that doesnt mean that the Big10 is going to get rid of divisions---but it certainly indicates the Big10 would be open to a rule that gives them that option. The devil would be in the details.

If I am an AAC fan who wants a rule change, then I am hoping that the B1G once again misses the playoffs this year. Because that seems to have been the impetus for Delany's statement.

If the B1G does make the playoffs, then I imagine he and others in the B1G thinking about this will rest easier, and be less motivated to change any rules. At root, they would prefer not to change the rule, but one thing has been made clear the past few years is that P5 conferences are very concerned about any aspects of their structure that seem to be an impediment to making the playoffs.

The irony from the Big Ten is thick. Gatekeep the whole structure to have it serve your best interests, and once (or more) you’re left out, wow, you’re singing a different tune.

Try as it might, the western part of the conference isn’t relevant, and the east hurts as a result. Suddenly, helping your best teams as much as you can, regardless of the division, sounds great.

Of course, you could open the playoff up to eight, give AQ, and put some friggin meaning into the whole season and CCG, but, you can’t tell these people this. Don’t put it past the B1G that the issue is very subjective. For a non-major, go nuts. Let’s see the ACC try to raise this again, with or without ND tied in...it’s back to nope.
10-25-2019 12:09 PM
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Phlipper33 Offline
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Post: #128
RE: AAC Waiver Approved
I could see the waiver getting extended a couple different ways - all assuming there is no rule change.

I could see the SEC helping push a rule change though. The SEC has schedule issues with the permanent cross division play, only allowing one rotating cross division opponent a year. I've seen multiple people post about the idea of 3 permanent opponents and rotate 5 others, allowing all schools to play each other within 2 years, instead of the current 7. (A&M and Georgia will face each other for the first time in November).

Barring a rule change happening though, I could see a waiver granted if the AAC invites after spending a year-18 months trying to get a rule change. Then C-USA won't let UAB out early and refuses to negotiate because UAB left them high and dry before when they dropped football. Extending the waiver an extra year if needed for the situation would likely be done. Could happen with other teams as well, but I see UAB being the most likely cause for not being able to move on time.

The other situation is far less likely, but still possible. Wichita State explored adding football before in trying to improve their conference affiliation. If no other schools are found the AAC could pressure Wichita State to start up the program. If Wichita State had a plan in place to be able to get to FBS by say 2025, I think the NCAA extends the waiver until then. Not likely, I know. But I didn't see any others post the idea of Wichita State football so I figured I'd be the DavidSt for this thread.
10-25-2019 01:30 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #129
RE: AAC Waiver Approved
There is no incentive to the ACC to cut ND in on a conference championship game with a limited schedule. None. I don’t think that will be an issue.
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2019 01:31 PM by esayem.)
10-25-2019 01:30 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #130
RE: AAC Waiver Approved
(10-25-2019 12:09 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 08:42 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 02:09 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I think Delany's comments here indicate that the Big10 has CLEARLY had a change of heart. Now, that doesnt mean that the Big10 is going to get rid of divisions---but it certainly indicates the Big10 would be open to a rule that gives them that option. The devil would be in the details.

If I am an AAC fan who wants a rule change, then I am hoping that the B1G once again misses the playoffs this year. Because that seems to have been the impetus for Delany's statement.

If the B1G does make the playoffs, then I imagine he and others in the B1G thinking about this will rest easier, and be less motivated to change any rules. At root, they would prefer not to change the rule, but one thing has been made clear the past few years is that P5 conferences are very concerned about any aspects of their structure that seem to be an impediment to making the playoffs.

The irony from the Big Ten is thick. Gatekeep the whole structure to have it serve your best interests, and once (or more) you’re left out, wow, you’re singing a different tune.

In fairness to the B1G, this kind of shameless change of position to suit one's needs is basically characteristic of every conference ever.
10-25-2019 03:51 PM
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PicksUp Offline
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Post: #131
RE: AAC Waiver Approved
(10-25-2019 06:49 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 04:53 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 02:19 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  The best AAC+G4 champ

Strange way to write "G5". Do AAC fans really buy into the Aresco propaganda?

Why not? ESPN does. Pays the AAC a lot more than the G4 leagues.

I bet AAC gets closer to MWC money than PAC12.
10-25-2019 03:58 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #132
RE: AAC Waiver Approved
(10-25-2019 03:58 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 06:49 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 04:53 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 02:19 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  The best AAC+G4 champ

Strange way to write "G5". Do AAC fans really buy into the Aresco propaganda?

Why not? ESPN does. Pays the AAC a lot more than the G4 leagues.

I bet AAC gets closer to MWC money than PAC12.

Yes, from a money POV the AAC is in one sense a "tweener" league, in that its money is clearly above that of the other G5 conferences. There's no doubt that $7m a year is a lot more than $1m or $2m a year.

But, since the lowest P5 is getting about $25m now, that means if the other G4 are San Francisco and the P5 are New York City, the AAC is about at Salt Lake City, far closer to the G side than the P side.
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2019 04:06 PM by quo vadis.)
10-25-2019 04:06 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #133
RE: AAC Waiver Approved
(10-25-2019 08:51 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 08:26 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 06:49 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 04:53 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 02:19 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  The best AAC+G4 champ

Strange way to write "G5". Do AAC fans really buy into the Aresco propaganda?

Why not? ESPN does. Pays the AAC a lot more than the G4 leagues.

And much less than the P5, so....

So if we are being honest I think most of us in the AAC know the "P6" stuff is not ever going to result in actually being on the exact same level as the other leagues. The main goal for me (and I think it's been relatively effective) is to show there is a real difference between the AAC and the other leagues and from a competition and competitiveness standpoint the AAC is closer to the power leagues than the non power ones.

Mr. Sagarin says otherwise. G5 it is.

[Image: 27GT9UL.png]
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2019 11:37 PM by Nerdlinger.)
10-25-2019 11:37 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #134
RE: AAC Waiver Approved
(10-25-2019 11:37 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 08:51 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 08:26 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 06:49 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 04:53 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Strange way to write "G5". Do AAC fans really buy into the Aresco propaganda?

Why not? ESPN does. Pays the AAC a lot more than the G4 leagues.

And much less than the P5, so....

So if we are being honest I think most of us in the AAC know the "P6" stuff is not ever going to result in actually being on the exact same level as the other leagues. The main goal for me (and I think it's been relatively effective) is to show there is a real difference between the AAC and the other leagues and from a competition and competitiveness standpoint the AAC is closer to the power leagues than the non power ones.

Mr. Sagarin says otherwise. G5 it is.

[Image: 27GT9UL.png]

and this years data has AAC up to 69.44 and MWC at 65.44.

Also would be interesting to see the data pre bowls, as that's frankly more meaningful to the G5 spot.
10-25-2019 11:55 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #135
RE: AAC Waiver Approved
(10-25-2019 11:55 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 11:37 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 08:51 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 08:26 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 06:49 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  Why not? ESPN does. Pays the AAC a lot more than the G4 leagues.

And much less than the P5, so....

So if we are being honest I think most of us in the AAC know the "P6" stuff is not ever going to result in actually being on the exact same level as the other leagues. The main goal for me (and I think it's been relatively effective) is to show there is a real difference between the AAC and the other leagues and from a competition and competitiveness standpoint the AAC is closer to the power leagues than the non power ones.

Mr. Sagarin says otherwise. G5 it is.

[Image: 27GT9UL.png]

and this years data has AAC up to 69.44 and MWC at 65.44.

Also would be interesting to see the data pre bowls, as that's frankly more meaningful to the G5 spot.

I think Mr Sagerine might have some interesting things to say about 2019.
(This post was last modified: 10-26-2019 12:15 AM by Attackcoog.)
10-26-2019 12:13 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #136
RE: AAC Waiver Approved
(10-25-2019 11:55 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 11:37 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 08:51 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 08:26 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 06:49 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  Why not? ESPN does. Pays the AAC a lot more than the G4 leagues.

And much less than the P5, so....

So if we are being honest I think most of us in the AAC know the "P6" stuff is not ever going to result in actually being on the exact same level as the other leagues. The main goal for me (and I think it's been relatively effective) is to show there is a real difference between the AAC and the other leagues and from a competition and competitiveness standpoint the AAC is closer to the power leagues than the non power ones.

Mr. Sagarin says otherwise. G5 it is.

[Image: 27GT9UL.png]

and this years data has AAC up to 69.44 and MWC at 65.44.

Also would be interesting to see the data pre bowls, as that's frankly more meaningful to the G5 spot.

The G5 spot is an "individual" award, not a conference award, e.g., WMU got the bid despite the MAC not being anywhere near the best conference.

And after the bowls is how the CFP calculates the "best G5" conference for purposes of bonus money.

Finally of course, after the bowls gives the complete picture of how good a conference was that year.
10-26-2019 07:58 AM
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Tigersmoke4 Offline
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Post: #137
RE: AAC Waiver Approved
(10-25-2019 04:06 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 03:58 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 06:49 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 04:53 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 02:19 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  The best AAC+G4 champ

Strange way to write "G5". Do AAC fans really buy into the Aresco propaganda?

Why not? ESPN does. Pays the AAC a lot more than the G4 leagues.

I bet AAC gets closer to MWC money than PAC12.

Yes, from a money POV the AAC is in one sense a "tweener" league, in that its money is clearly above that of the other G5 conferences. There's no doubt that $7m a year is a lot more than $1m or $2m a year.

But, since the lowest P5 is getting about $25m now, that means if the other G4 are San Francisco and the P5 are New York City, the AAC is about at Salt Lake City, far closer to the G side than the P side.

The AAC teams will be getting close to 8mil once they split UCONN's share that ESPN seems to be okay with.
10-26-2019 09:02 AM
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CougarRed Offline
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Post: #138
RE: AAC Waiver Approved
(10-25-2019 03:58 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 06:49 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 04:53 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 02:19 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  The best AAC+G4 champ

Strange way to write "G5". Do AAC fans really buy into the Aresco propaganda?

Why not? ESPN does. Pays the AAC a lot more than the G4 leagues.

I bet AAC gets closer to MWC money than PAC12.

On a log scale, AAC will get 3-4x as much as MWC. Pac 12 gets 3-4x as much as AAC.
10-26-2019 09:03 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #139
RE: AAC Waiver Approved
(10-26-2019 09:02 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 04:06 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 03:58 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 06:49 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(10-24-2019 04:53 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Strange way to write "G5". Do AAC fans really buy into the Aresco propaganda?

Why not? ESPN does. Pays the AAC a lot more than the G4 leagues.

I bet AAC gets closer to MWC money than PAC12.

Yes, from a money POV the AAC is in one sense a "tweener" league, in that its money is clearly above that of the other G5 conferences. There's no doubt that $7m a year is a lot more than $1m or $2m a year.

But, since the lowest P5 is getting about $25m now, that means if the other G4 are San Francisco and the P5 are New York City, the AAC is about at Salt Lake City, far closer to the G side than the P side.

The AAC teams will be getting close to 8mil once they split UCONN's share that ESPN seems to be okay with.

I guess that is still Salt Lake City, maybe its suburbs, lol. And what makes you think ESPN isn't deducting UConn's share?
10-26-2019 02:24 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #140
RE: AAC Waiver Approved
(10-26-2019 02:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-26-2019 09:02 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 04:06 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 03:58 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 06:49 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  Why not? ESPN does. Pays the AAC a lot more than the G4 leagues.

I bet AAC gets closer to MWC money than PAC12.

Yes, from a money POV the AAC is in one sense a "tweener" league, in that its money is clearly above that of the other G5 conferences. There's no doubt that $7m a year is a lot more than $1m or $2m a year.

But, since the lowest P5 is getting about $25m now, that means if the other G4 are San Francisco and the P5 are New York City, the AAC is about at Salt Lake City, far closer to the G side than the P side.

The AAC teams will be getting close to 8mil once they split UCONN's share that ESPN seems to be okay with.

I guess that is still Salt Lake City, maybe its suburbs, lol. And what makes you think ESPN isn't deducting UConn's share?

Because they haven't deducted it yet. That means it'll never happen. ESPN is altruistic.
10-26-2019 02:41 PM
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