AAA definitely needs some reform. The PCL needs split into a pair of 8 team leagues. A minor league that spans from the Pacific to Nashville doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

I think it’s just plain wrong to kick AA all the way out of the official minor leagues. A demotion to one of the A levels would be a kick in the gut but completely removing them just seems wrong.

Pulaski being the sole retained Rookie League team is a total head scratcher. Someone important must have an ownership stake.

(11-18-2019 07:51 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  AAA definitely needs some reform. The PCL needs split into a pair of 8 team leagues. A minor league that spans from the Pacific to Nashville doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

I think it’s just plain wrong to kick AA all the way out of the official minor leagues. A demotion to one of the A levels would be a kick in the gut but completely removing them just seems wrong.

Pulaski being the sole retained Rookie League team is a total head scratcher. Someone important must have an ownership stake.

They had a league like that in the American Association and it got split in half and divided up between the PCL and IL. I don't remember the specifics of what happened to it but I don't think it's coming back any time soon.

Has anything been said about what's going to be done with the teams that were eliminated? I mean, independent baseball's a thing but it's not exactly a popular one. The "Dream League" sounds like a really stupid idea, truthfully.

Also, I guess there are serious worries about antitrust exemption getting stripped from the league as a result of this.
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb...story.html

https://ballparkdigest.com/2019/11/18/mo...-baseball/

(11-18-2019 08:14 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(11-18-2019 07:51 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  AAA definitely needs some reform. The PCL needs split into a pair of 8 team leagues. A minor league that spans from the Pacific to Nashville doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

They had a league like that in the American Association and it got split in half and divided up between the PCL and IL. I don't remember the specifics of what happened to it but I don't think it's coming back any time soon.

Has anything been said about what's going to be done with the teams that were eliminated? I mean, independent baseball's a thing but it's not exactly a popular one.

I'd be for bringing back the American Association. The name is taken by an independent league, so they'd have to use another name for a Central time zone league. With the New Orleans franchise moved to Wichita, there are four easy pairs of teams:

San Antonio-Round Rock
Oklahoma City-Wichita
Omaha-Iowa
Memphis-Nashville

I know there was once a concern about playing the same teams over and over again, but there doesn't need to be a league with teams strung out from Tacoma to San Antonio to Nashville.

San Antonio just moved from AA to AAA last year. I'm not sure about their stadium plans. Wichita has a new ballpark opening next year.

EDIT: I just read the article..they want to demote Fresno and add St Paul to the Pacific Coast League? Ok..

Not sure what franchise ends up in Sugar Land. As they are in the Houston market, that team would have to be affiliated with the Astros. The Astros currently have their AAA team in Round Rock and their AA team in Corpus Christi. There are no single A leagues anywhere close to Texas. It would have to be a AA or AAA team that ends up in Sugar Land.

(11-18-2019 07:51 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  AAA definitely needs some reform. The PCL needs split into a pair of 8 team leagues. A minor league that spans from the Pacific to Nashville doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

I think it’s just plain wrong to kick AA all the way out of the official minor leagues. A demotion to one of the A levels would be a kick in the gut but completely removing them just seems wrong.

Pulaski being the sole retained Rookie League team is a total head scratcher. Someone important must have an ownership stake.

The article above mentions that Pulaski and Johnson City would possibly move up to Single A.

(11-18-2019 08:24 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  https://ballparkdigest.com/2019/11/18/mo...-baseball/

The hysteria in this article is silly.

MLB franchises pay every player and coach salary for every minor league team. Every minor league owner would be losing a lot of money if that was not the case. The argument in this article is that MLB should just shut up and pay, and have no control over:
-- how many minor league teams they have to pay for
-- where those teams play
-- whether an MLB team on one coast is stuck with minor league teams on the other coast
-- whether they are stuck with minor league affiliates playing in facilities poorer than those of most high schools

The amazing thing is that MLB has tolerated this situation for so long.

There was an earlier report about the International League going to 20 teams. St. Paul may replace Fresno in the PCL, but I would expect Nashville, Memphis, Iowa, St. Paul, Omaha, and Wichita to all join the IL, or the new AAA league with Louisville and Indianapolis (and maybe Toledo and Columbus).

The PCL is still stuck with Texas and Oklahoma, but you have a natural Southwest Division (Albuquerque, El Paso, Oklahoma City, San Antonio, Round Rock) and Pacific Division (Tacoma, Sacramento, Reno, Las Vegas, Salt Lake).

The IL has 4 midwestern teams. You could conceivably create a new American Association by taking the 4 of them, Memphis, Nashville, Iowa, Omaha, Wichita, and the new St Paul team to ostensibly serve the 10 teams in the AL and NL Central.

The Pacific Coast League would then be the AAA home of the AL and NL West while the IL services the AL and NL East.

(11-18-2019 08:25 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(11-18-2019 08:14 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(11-18-2019 07:51 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  AAA definitely needs some reform. The PCL needs split into a pair of 8 team leagues. A minor league that spans from the Pacific to Nashville doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

They had a league like that in the American Association and it got split in half and divided up between the PCL and IL. I don't remember the specifics of what happened to it but I don't think it's coming back any time soon.

Has anything been said about what's going to be done with the teams that were eliminated? I mean, independent baseball's a thing but it's not exactly a popular one.

I'd be for bringing back the American Association. The name is taken by an independent league, so they'd have to use another name for a Central time zone league. With the New Orleans franchise moved to Wichita, there are four easy pairs of teams:

San Antonio-Round Rock
Oklahoma City-Wichita
Omaha-Iowa
Memphis-Nashville

I know there was once a concern about playing the same teams over and over again, but there doesn't need to be a league with teams strung out from Tacoma to San Antonio to Nashville.

San Antonio just moved from AA to AAA last year. I'm not sure about their stadium plans. Wichita has a new ballpark opening next year.

EDIT: I just read the article..they want to demote Fresno and add St Paul to the Pacific Coast League? Ok..

Not sure what franchise ends up in Sugar Land. As they are in the Houston market, that team would have to be affiliated with the Astros. The Astros currently have their AAA team in Round Rock and their AA team in Corpus Christi. There are no single A leagues anywhere close to Texas. It would have to be a AA or AAA team that ends up in Sugar Land.

That one also has me perplexed. Sugar Land only makes sense in the PCL or Texas League but no Texas League teams are being booted.

Perhaps Sugar Land is joining the PCL as the new Astros affiliate and someone else in the PCL, outside of Texas, is getting downgraded.

Fresno is supposedly going to the AA California League to make way for a new Twins affiliate in St Paul. Lancaster gets the axe in the California League to accommodate.

I whipped up this alignment on another forum, share freely:

AAA

International League
Buffalo, Lehigh Valley, Rochester, Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, Syracuse, Worcester
Charlotte, Durham, Gwinnett, Norfolk
Columbus, Indianapolis, Louisville. Memphis, Nashville, Toledo
Iowa, Omaha, St. Paul, Wichita

Pacific Coast League
Albuquerque, El Paso, Oklahoma City, Round Rock, San Antonio
Las Vegas, Reno, Sacramento, Salt Lake, Tacoma

AA

Eastern League
Akron, Altoona, Bowie, Brooklyn, Dayton, Harrisburg, Hartford, New Hampshire, Portland, Reading, Trenton, West Michigan

Southern League
Arkansas, Biloxi, Birmingham, Jacksonville, Mississippi, Montgomery, Pensacola, Richmond, Rocket City, Tennessee

Texas League
Amarillo, Corpus Christi, Frisco, Midland, NW Arkansas, Springfield MO, Sugarland, Tulsa

High-A

California League
Fresno, Lake Elsinore, Modesto, Rancho Cucamonga, San Bernardino, San Jose, Stockton, Visalia

Carolina League
Aberdeen, Asheville, Carolina, Down East, Fayetteville, Fredericksburg, Greensboro, Hickory, Kannapolis, Lynchburg, Salem, Winston-Salem

Florida State League
Bradenton, Charlotte, Clearwater, Dunedin, Fort Myers, Jupiter, Lakeland, Palm Beach, St. Lucie. Tampa

Low-A

Midwest League
Beloit or Quad Cities, Bowling Green, Cedar Rapids, Fort Wayne, Great Lakes, Kane County, Lansing, Peoria, South Bend, Wisconsin

New York-Penn League(For lack of better options)
Delmarva, Hudson Valley, Lake County, Lakewood, Staten Island, Tri-City(NY), West Virginia Black Bears, Wilmington

Northwest League
Boise, Eugene, Everett, Hillsboro, Spokane, Vancouver

South Atlantic League
Augusta, Charleston(SC), Columbia, Greenville, Myrtle Beach, Rome

Well now the politicians are starting to get involved. This article mentions that an Idaho congressman is joining 100 other politicians in a letter to MLB.

https://localnews8.com/sports/2019/11/20...-question/

I'm sure a letter is just the start of their involvement. Local communities have put a lot into their facilities to attract teams.

I wouldn't mind if Idaho Falls and Ogden joined the Northwest league that has two proposed teams shutting down. Ogden has a ton of support in the community. But I'd still feel bad for other members of the Pioneer League. Orem probably won't be saved as they are already on shaky ground. I know that Colorado Springs is loving their team and hopefully it should find a landing spot (if the elimination of the Pioneer league goes through). I'm not certain how the other teams in the league are doing.

(11-20-2019 01:38 PM)TardisCaptain Wrote:  Well now the politicians are starting to get involved. This article mentions that an Idaho congressman is joining 100 other politicians in a letter to MLB.

https://localnews8.com/sports/2019/11/20...-question/

I'm sure a letter is just the start of their involvement. Local communities have put a lot into their facilities to attract teams.

I wouldn't mind if Idaho Falls and Ogden joined the Northwest league that has two proposed teams shutting down. Ogden has a ton of support in the community. But I'd still feel bad for other members of the Pioneer League. Orem probably won't be saved as they are already on shaky ground. I know that Colorado Springs is loving their team and hopefully it should find a landing spot (if the elimination of the Pioneer league goes through). I'm not certain how the other teams in the league are doing.

Before anyone starts decrying government intervention into a private business, blah blah crap, remember that probably 95% of baseball facilities have been paid for at least in part by Governments.

The Government has every right to, and SHOULD intervene in this, since they are a major stakeholder in Professional Baseball.

Or, MLB and it's owners could reimburse the taxpayers for every penny we have subsidized all levels of baseball (including infrastructure) and decline the anti-trust exemption.

(11-20-2019 01:35 PM)Rube Dali Wrote:  I whipped up this alignment on another forum, share freely:

AAA

International League
Buffalo, Lehigh Valley, Rochester, Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, Syracuse, Worcester
Charlotte, Durham, Gwinnett, Norfolk
Columbus, Indianapolis, Louisville. Memphis, Nashville, Toledo
Iowa, Omaha, St. Paul, Wichita

Pacific Coast League
Albuquerque, El Paso, Oklahoma City, Round Rock, San Antonio
Las Vegas, Reno, Sacramento, Salt Lake, Tacoma

AA

Eastern League
Akron, Altoona, Bowie, Brooklyn, Dayton, Harrisburg, Hartford, New Hampshire, Portland, Reading, Trenton, West Michigan

Southern League
Arkansas, Biloxi, Birmingham, Jacksonville, Mississippi, Montgomery, Pensacola, Richmond, Rocket City, Tennessee

Texas League
Amarillo, Corpus Christi, Frisco, Midland, NW Arkansas, Springfield MO, Sugarland, Tulsa

High-A

California League
Fresno, Lake Elsinore, Modesto, Rancho Cucamonga, San Bernardino, San Jose, Stockton, Visalia

Carolina League
Aberdeen, Asheville, Carolina, Down East, Fayetteville, Fredericksburg, Greensboro, Hickory, Kannapolis, Lynchburg, Salem, Winston-Salem

Florida State League
Bradenton, Charlotte, Clearwater, Dunedin, Fort Myers, Jupiter, Lakeland, Palm Beach, St. Lucie. Tampa

Low-A

Midwest League
Beloit or Quad Cities, Bowling Green, Cedar Rapids, Fort Wayne, Great Lakes, Kane County, Lansing, Peoria, South Bend, Wisconsin

New York-Penn League(For lack of better options)
Delmarva, Hudson Valley, Lake County, Lakewood, Staten Island, Tri-City(NY), West Virginia Black Bears, Wilmington

Northwest League
Boise, Eugene, Everett, Hillsboro, Spokane, Vancouver

South Atlantic League
Augusta, Charleston(SC), Columbia, Greenville, Myrtle Beach, Rome

Seems sensible.

Forcing Arkansas out of the Texas League just to let in Sugar Land seems a little forced.

If you are going to make a 20 team AA you may as well create 2 10-team leagues. IL West joins with the 5 PCL teams plus St Paul.

The other way to splice that is 3 ways:

IL North (6)
IL South + Nashville + Memphis (6)
IL West + Iowa + Omaha + St Paul + Wichita (8)

I actually really like the new low A mid Atlantic League. It brings some geographical outliers with the NY-Penn survivors.

(11-18-2019 07:51 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  AAA definitely needs some reform. The PCL needs split into a pair of 8 team leagues. A minor league that spans from the Pacific to Nashville doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

I think it’s just plain wrong to kick AA all the way out of the official minor leagues. A demotion to one of the A levels would be a kick in the gut but completely removing them just seems wrong.

Pulaski being the sole retained Rookie League team is a total head scratcher. Someone important must have an ownership stake.

I think under the plan the International League expands and the PCL contracts. It makes more sense for Nashville, Iowa, Memphis, etc... to look east versus west.

(11-20-2019 01:35 PM)Rube Dali Wrote:  I whipped up this alignment on another forum, share freely:


AA

Eastern League
Akron, Altoona, Bowie, Brooklyn, Dayton, Harrisburg, Hartford, New Hampshire, Portland, Reading, Trenton, West Michigan

Southern League
Arkansas, Biloxi, Birmingham, Jacksonville, Mississippi, Montgomery, Pensacola, Richmond, Rocket City, Tennessee

Texas League
Amarillo, Corpus Christi, Frisco, Midland, NW Arkansas, Springfield MO, Sugarland, Tulsa

Hope not. NW Arkansas Naturals has become a nice rivalry for the Arkansas Travelers and the fans in central Arkansas are mostly Cardinal fans so turn out for Springfield despite (because of?) the remaining resentment over the Cardinals ended their affiliation with the Travs which was the longest or second longest affiliation at the time. On the positive side since the move there seem to be more Rangers fans emerging in Little Rock which is good because they are easier to deal with than Cards fans.

(11-20-2019 01:56 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(11-20-2019 01:38 PM)TardisCaptain Wrote:  Well now the politicians are starting to get involved. This article mentions that an Idaho congressman is joining 100 other politicians in a letter to MLB.

https://localnews8.com/sports/2019/11/20...-question/

I'm sure a letter is just the start of their involvement. Local communities have put a lot into their facilities to attract teams.

I wouldn't mind if Idaho Falls and Ogden joined the Northwest league that has two proposed teams shutting down. Ogden has a ton of support in the community. But I'd still feel bad for other members of the Pioneer League. Orem probably won't be saved as they are already on shaky ground. I know that Colorado Springs is loving their team and hopefully it should find a landing spot (if the elimination of the Pioneer league goes through). I'm not certain how the other teams in the league are doing.

Before anyone starts decrying government intervention into a private business, blah blah crap, remember that probably 95% of baseball facilities have been paid for at least in part by Governments.

The Government has every right to, and SHOULD intervene in this, since they are a major stakeholder in Professional Baseball.

Or, MLB and it's owners could reimburse the taxpayers for every penny we have subsidized all levels of baseball (including infrastructure) and decline the anti-trust exemption.

The government can't force MLB to keep paying for minor league franchises that don't pay the bills. Nor will they try to, for that very reason. Paying for public facilities doesn't obligate MLB to keep a franchise there - MLB or Minor - beyond the terms of the lease.

If fans really do care about their local Toledo Mud Hen or Backwater Sand Crab team, then they should show up and buy enough tickets to make them viable.

(11-22-2019 08:40 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-20-2019 01:56 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(11-20-2019 01:38 PM)TardisCaptain Wrote:  Well now the politicians are starting to get involved. This article mentions that an Idaho congressman is joining 100 other politicians in a letter to MLB.

https://localnews8.com/sports/2019/11/20...-question/

I'm sure a letter is just the start of their involvement. Local communities have put a lot into their facilities to attract teams.

I wouldn't mind if Idaho Falls and Ogden joined the Northwest league that has two proposed teams shutting down. Ogden has a ton of support in the community. But I'd still feel bad for other members of the Pioneer League. Orem probably won't be saved as they are already on shaky ground. I know that Colorado Springs is loving their team and hopefully it should find a landing spot (if the elimination of the Pioneer league goes through). I'm not certain how the other teams in the league are doing.

Before anyone starts decrying government intervention into a private business, blah blah crap, remember that probably 95% of baseball facilities have been paid for at least in part by Governments.

The Government has every right to, and SHOULD intervene in this, since they are a major stakeholder in Professional Baseball.

Or, MLB and it's owners could reimburse the taxpayers for every penny we have subsidized all levels of baseball (including infrastructure) and decline the anti-trust exemption.

The government can't force MLB to keep paying for minor league franchises that don't pay the bills. Nor will they try to, for that very reason. Paying for public facilities doesn't obligate MLB to keep a franchise there - MLB or Minor - beyond the terms of the lease.

If fans really do care about their local Toledo Mud Hen or Backwater Sand Crab team, then they should show up and buy enough tickets to make them viable.

Well not like all of these contraction targets are struggling financially. In fact the gate receipts are irrelevant to MLB unless they happen to own the team. They just stock them with players and make sure the players have proper amenities and the field and facilities are in acceptable condition.

The Congress is under no obligation to continue the anti-trust exemption and has no obligation to not change the tax treatment for sweetheart stadium deals that usually include local tax abatements.

(10-19-2019 11:29 AM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2787...n-40-teams

"Major League Baseball is in negotiations with its minor league teams about efforts to "reorganize elements of the system" that could reduce the number of affiliated teams from 160 to 120, according to reports....

According to the reports, the 40 teams at the lower levels that are not included in this venture would be reclassified into a "Dream League," which would be run jointly by MLB and Minor League Baseball and would include players who were not selected in the draft, which under this proposal would be moved to after the College World Series and reduced to 20-25 rounds from the total of up to 40 in its current format...."

This could impact how much MLB relies on colleges as "farm teams."

Collège baseball becomes the "FREE" farm team system just like the NFL and the NBA.

If sports teams want to get tax dollars and special exemptions for stadium construction and remodeling then you better believe that the politicians are going to be getting involved if you try to take away the local team whose infrastructure the tax payers supported.

(11-22-2019 10:38 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If sports teams want to get tax dollars and special exemptions for stadium construction and remodeling then you better believe that the politicians are going to be getting involved if you try to take away the local team whose infrastructure the tax payers supported.

Shoot they will get involved when it gores the ox of the locals and doing so is popular. We have two Congressmen who when questioned and in their voting were big supporters of USPS being run like a business UNTIL the USPS started to close unprofitable offices that were in their district.

Throw in a community taxing itself to build a stadium as happened in North Little Rock for five years to build a minor league park and the screaming would be magnitudes louder than a small community of several dozen people losing their post office.