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Most impressive G5 over P5 win
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ken d Online
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Post: #21
RE: Most impressive G5 over P5 win
(10-10-2019 01:35 PM)dwalker85 Wrote:  
(10-10-2019 12:37 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-10-2019 12:13 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  So far there have been 20 G5 over P5 wins (and one FCS over P5 win).

Which ones do you think were the most impressive?

Personally I think Hawaii over 4-1 Arizona and Wyoming over 4-1 Missouri were pretty nice

None of the ranked P5 teams have lost to a G5 team this season.

The two you mention are the best.

TCU was ranked when they lost to SMU. That counts.

Why does that count? All it means is that the polls were wrong, as they always are. If they were right, there wouldn't be a reason to keep correcting them week after week. No doubt they are closer to being correct at the end of the season, when we have more information about teams. But they are still wrong even then - we just run out of weeks to keep correcting them.

In 1984, BYU moved into the rankings because they beat #3 Pitt at the start of the season. Then they gradually moved up each week as teams ranked ahead of them lost. They were voted national champions even though they never again faced a ranked team all season or in a bowl. And even though the "ranked" team they beat finished the year at 3-8.

So, no. It doesn't matter that TCU was inappropriately ranked when they lost.
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2019 08:30 AM by ken d.)
10-11-2019 07:34 AM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #22
RE: Most impressive G5 over P5 win
(10-10-2019 05:54 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(10-10-2019 03:35 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-10-2019 03:23 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(10-10-2019 02:01 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I have seen some mention the wins over Arizona, TCU, and Missouri.

As of now, the Massey Composite ranks them thusly:


Missouri .......... 18

Arizona ........... 37

TCU ................ 44


So, the OP appears to be correct, Wyoming over Mizzou and Hawaii over Arizona.

That said, this discussion highlights what a weak year its been for the G5 versus P5. There just aren't any really impressive P5 hides that have been tanned by G5 this year.

I’d beg to differ. 20 losses is quite a few and I think it demonstrates that it’s been a great year for the G5, particularly the AAC And MWC. The SBC hasn’t been too shabby. I can’t recall a season where they claimed 3 P5 scalps so it’s been a high water mark for them.

The lack of top 25 is self fulfilling—you can’t lose to a G5 and be in the top 25. additionally, most national title contenders are going to avoid facing a known dangerous G5 team.

I get the self-fulfilling aspect. Nevertheless, can you think of a year when the best G5 over P5 win was as weak as the two the OP mentioned?

I agree its been a great year by volume, but not nearly so much by quality.

It’s still early yet to fully ascertain quality until more games get played. If Missouri or Arizona go on to run the table then those victories start looking really really good.

Alright, fair point. I admit I am assuming both of them have some beatings coming, especially Missouri, once they get deep in conference play. But as you say, maybe not.
10-11-2019 07:37 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Most impressive G5 over P5 win
(10-11-2019 07:34 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-10-2019 01:35 PM)dwalker85 Wrote:  
(10-10-2019 12:37 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-10-2019 12:13 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  So far there have been 20 G5 over P5 wins (and one FCS over P5 win).

Which ones do you think were the most impressive?

Personally I think Hawaii over 4-1 Arizona and Wyoming over 4-1 Missouri were pretty nice

None of the ranked P5 teams have lost to a G5 team this season.

The two you mention are the best.

TCU was ranked when they lost to SMU. That counts.

Why does that count? All it means is that the polls were wrong, as they always are. I they were right, there wouldn't be a reason to keep correcting them week after week. No doubt they are closer to being correct at the end of the season, when we have more information about teams. But they are still wrong even then - we just run out of weeks to keep correcting them.

In 1984, BYU moved into the rankings because they beat #3 Pitt at the start of the season. Then they gradually moved up each week as teams ranked ahead of them lost. They were voted national champions even though they never again faced a ranked team all season or in a bowl. And even though the "ranked" team they beat finished the year at 3-8.

So, no. It doesn't matter that TCU was inappropriately ranked when they lost.


You make some good points. But at the time, that was a good win for SMU. That game is when folks (including the media) perhaps started to take note of the Ponies. And for a G5 member to beat a P5 member in a state the two share ... that's always big. I think you're being a bit strict in your assessment. But, and in fairness, I do see some of your logic.
10-11-2019 07:54 AM
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gulfcoastgal Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Most impressive G5 over P5 win
(10-11-2019 07:54 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(10-11-2019 07:34 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-10-2019 01:35 PM)dwalker85 Wrote:  
(10-10-2019 12:37 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-10-2019 12:13 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  So far there have been 20 G5 over P5 wins (and one FCS over P5 win).

Which ones do you think were the most impressive?

Personally I think Hawaii over 4-1 Arizona and Wyoming over 4-1 Missouri were pretty nice

None of the ranked P5 teams have lost to a G5 team this season.

The two you mention are the best.

TCU was ranked when they lost to SMU. That counts.

Why does that count? All it means is that the polls were wrong, as they always are. I they were right, there wouldn't be a reason to keep correcting them week after week. No doubt they are closer to being correct at the end of the season, when we have more information about teams. But they are still wrong even then - we just run out of weeks to keep correcting them.

In 1984, BYU moved into the rankings because they beat #3 Pitt at the start of the season. Then they gradually moved up each week as teams ranked ahead of them lost. They were voted national champions even though they never again faced a ranked team all season or in a bowl. And even though the "ranked" team they beat finished the year at 3-8.

So, no. It doesn't matter that TCU was inappropriately ranked when they lost.


You make some good points. But at the time, that was a good win for SMU. That game is when folks (including the media) perhaps started to take note of the Ponies. And for a G5 member to beat a P5 member in a state the two share ... that's always big. I think you're being a bit strict in your assessment. But, and in fairness, I do see some of your logic.

Same metro...an even bigger deal. They also beat North Texas so I guess they are tops in Dallas/Ft. Worth this year. Hopefully, they can get some of the support and star power that their bball team enjoyed a few years ago. It looked like the place to be and be seen...at least on social media. 03-wink
10-11-2019 08:03 AM
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ken d Online
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Post: #25
RE: Most impressive G5 over P5 win
(10-11-2019 08:03 AM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  
(10-11-2019 07:54 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(10-11-2019 07:34 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-10-2019 01:35 PM)dwalker85 Wrote:  
(10-10-2019 12:37 PM)Wedge Wrote:  None of the ranked P5 teams have lost to a G5 team this season.

The two you mention are the best.

TCU was ranked when they lost to SMU. That counts.

Why does that count? All it means is that the polls were wrong, as they always are. I they were right, there wouldn't be a reason to keep correcting them week after week. No doubt they are closer to being correct at the end of the season, when we have more information about teams. But they are still wrong even then - we just run out of weeks to keep correcting them.

In 1984, BYU moved into the rankings because they beat #3 Pitt at the start of the season. Then they gradually moved up each week as teams ranked ahead of them lost. They were voted national champions even though they never again faced a ranked team all season or in a bowl. And even though the "ranked" team they beat finished the year at 3-8.

So, no. It doesn't matter that TCU was inappropriately ranked when they lost.


You make some good points. But at the time, that was a good win for SMU. That game is when folks (including the media) perhaps started to take note of the Ponies. And for a G5 member to beat a P5 member in a state the two share ... that's always big. I think you're being a bit strict in your assessment. But, and in fairness, I do see some of your logic.

Same metro...an even bigger deal. They also beat North Texas so I guess they are tops in Dallas/Ft. Worth this year. Hopefully, they can get some of the support and star power that their bball team enjoyed a few years ago. It looked like the place to be and be seen...at least on social media. 03-wink

And not just same metro. These schools have been each other's primary rival for decades. And, despite that, it seems that TCU is considering ending their series with the ponies because it had become too one-sided lately. Let's hope this win quiets some of that talk.

It was a good win for SMU. It doesn't have to be compared with other wins by other teams. It stands on its own.
10-11-2019 08:40 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Most impressive G5 over P5 win
(10-11-2019 08:40 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-11-2019 08:03 AM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  
(10-11-2019 07:54 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(10-11-2019 07:34 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-10-2019 01:35 PM)dwalker85 Wrote:  TCU was ranked when they lost to SMU. That counts.

Why does that count? All it means is that the polls were wrong, as they always are. I they were right, there wouldn't be a reason to keep correcting them week after week. No doubt they are closer to being correct at the end of the season, when we have more information about teams. But they are still wrong even then - we just run out of weeks to keep correcting them.

In 1984, BYU moved into the rankings because they beat #3 Pitt at the start of the season. Then they gradually moved up each week as teams ranked ahead of them lost. They were voted national champions even though they never again faced a ranked team all season or in a bowl. And even though the "ranked" team they beat finished the year at 3-8.

So, no. It doesn't matter that TCU was inappropriately ranked when they lost.


You make some good points. But at the time, that was a good win for SMU. That game is when folks (including the media) perhaps started to take note of the Ponies. And for a G5 member to beat a P5 member in a state the two share ... that's always big. I think you're being a bit strict in your assessment. But, and in fairness, I do see some of your logic.

Same metro...an even bigger deal. They also beat North Texas so I guess they are tops in Dallas/Ft. Worth this year. Hopefully, they can get some of the support and star power that their bball team enjoyed a few years ago. It looked like the place to be and be seen...at least on social media. 03-wink

And not just same metro. These schools have been each other's primary rival for decades. And, despite that, it seems that TCU is considering ending their series with the ponies because it had become too one-sided lately. Let's hope this win quiets some of that talk.

It was a good win for SMU. It doesn't have to be compared with other wins by other teams. It stands on its own.

Agree fully.
10-11-2019 10:21 AM
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Post: #27
RE: Most impressive G5 over P5 win
(10-11-2019 07:54 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(10-11-2019 07:34 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-10-2019 01:35 PM)dwalker85 Wrote:  
(10-10-2019 12:37 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-10-2019 12:13 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  So far there have been 20 G5 over P5 wins (and one FCS over P5 win).

Which ones do you think were the most impressive?

Personally I think Hawaii over 4-1 Arizona and Wyoming over 4-1 Missouri were pretty nice

None of the ranked P5 teams have lost to a G5 team this season.

The two you mention are the best.

TCU was ranked when they lost to SMU. That counts.

Why does that count? All it means is that the polls were wrong, as they always are. I they were right, there wouldn't be a reason to keep correcting them week after week. No doubt they are closer to being correct at the end of the season, when we have more information about teams. But they are still wrong even then - we just run out of weeks to keep correcting them.

In 1984, BYU moved into the rankings because they beat #3 Pitt at the start of the season. Then they gradually moved up each week as teams ranked ahead of them lost. They were voted national champions even though they never again faced a ranked team all season or in a bowl. And even though the "ranked" team they beat finished the year at 3-8.

So, no. It doesn't matter that TCU was inappropriately ranked when they lost.


You make some good points. But at the time, that was a good win for SMU. That game is when folks (including the media) perhaps started to take note of the Ponies. And for a G5 member to beat a P5 member in a state the two share ... that's always big. I think you're being a bit strict in your assessment. But, and in fairness, I do see some of your logic.

IMO, the SMU win over TCU was very big for SMU, as you and others have noted SMU has been second-fiddle to TCU in Dallas for many years now, and has had to watch as TCU not only was better on the field but also got promoted to the P5. So this was a heady win for SMU. And, TCU may very well end up having a good season, such that objectively it will be a big win too. It may end up being the bigget G5 win.

But as of now, the wins over Missouri and Arizona are bigger in an objective, national sense.
10-11-2019 10:28 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Most impressive G5 over P5 win
(10-11-2019 10:28 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-11-2019 07:54 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(10-11-2019 07:34 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-10-2019 01:35 PM)dwalker85 Wrote:  
(10-10-2019 12:37 PM)Wedge Wrote:  None of the ranked P5 teams have lost to a G5 team this season.

The two you mention are the best.

TCU was ranked when they lost to SMU. That counts.

Why does that count? All it means is that the polls were wrong, as they always are. I they were right, there wouldn't be a reason to keep correcting them week after week. No doubt they are closer to being correct at the end of the season, when we have more information about teams. But they are still wrong even then - we just run out of weeks to keep correcting them.

In 1984, BYU moved into the rankings because they beat #3 Pitt at the start of the season. Then they gradually moved up each week as teams ranked ahead of them lost. They were voted national champions even though they never again faced a ranked team all season or in a bowl. And even though the "ranked" team they beat finished the year at 3-8.

So, no. It doesn't matter that TCU was inappropriately ranked when they lost.


You make some good points. But at the time, that was a good win for SMU. That game is when folks (including the media) perhaps started to take note of the Ponies. And for a G5 member to beat a P5 member in a state the two share ... that's always big. I think you're being a bit strict in your assessment. But, and in fairness, I do see some of your logic.

IMO, the SMU win over TCU was very big for SMU, as you and others have noted SMU has been second-fiddle to TCU in Dallas for many years now, and has had to watch as TCU not only was better on the field but also got promoted to the P5. So this was a heady win for SMU. And, TCU may very well end up having a good season, such that objectively it will be a big win too. It may end up being the bigget G5 win.

But as of now, the wins over Missouri and Arizona are bigger in an objective, national sense.

"the wins over Missouri and Arizona are bigger in an objective, national sense."

Agree fully.

And, in an odd way, the Georgia State win over Tennessee was huge in a national sense in that it exposed just how much time and effort the Vol program will need to become nationally relevant once again (which I think it can).
10-11-2019 12:27 PM
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Mav Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Most impressive G5 over P5 win
1. Georgia St. over Tennessee
2. App St. over UNC (only other Tarheel losses are to undefeated Wake Forest and Clemson teams, both close)
3. Wyoming over Missouri
4. Hawaii over Arizona
5. Memphis over Ole Miss
Temple over Maryland would be up there if Maryland didn't get destroyed by Penn State the next week
10-11-2019 10:45 PM
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WhoseHouse? Offline
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RE: Most impressive G5 over P5 win
Wyoming over Mizzou is my number two because it was probably the best team beaten by a g5 but SMU wins out for me because it was a road game and they were ranked at the time. Also it's a rivalry game that was starting to become one sided, so that's a nice boost as well.
10-12-2019 05:55 PM
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RE: Most impressive G5 over P5 win
(10-12-2019 05:55 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  Wyoming over Mizzou is my number two because it was probably the best team beaten by a g5 but SMU wins out for me because it was a road game and they were ranked at the time. Also it's a rivalry game that was starting to become one sided, so that's a nice boost as well.

Thing is, this can change, depending on how other games go. E.g., right now, Mizzou is ranked higher than TCU, so beating Missouri is objectively the better win.

But if Mizzou loses to Ole Miss tonight, then the complexion changes.

All we can do now is say what the best win is "right now", but that can change as the coming weeks unfold. We really won't know what the best win was until after bowl season.
10-12-2019 06:22 PM
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WhoseHouse? Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Most impressive G5 over P5 win
(10-12-2019 06:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-12-2019 05:55 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  Wyoming over Mizzou is my number two because it was probably the best team beaten by a g5 but SMU wins out for me because it was a road game and they were ranked at the time. Also it's a rivalry game that was starting to become one sided, so that's a nice boost as well.

Thing is, this can change, depending on how other games go. E.g., right now, Mizzou is ranked higher than TCU, so beating Missouri is objectively the better win.

But if Mizzou loses to Ole Miss tonight, then the complexion changes.

All we can do now is say what the best win is "right now", but that can change as the coming weeks unfold. We really won't know what the best win was until after bowl season.

I think when you factor in where the games were played it's pretty close.
10-12-2019 06:58 PM
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sierrajip Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Most impressive G5 over P5 win
(10-11-2019 10:45 PM)Mav Wrote:  1. Georgia St. over Tennessee
2. App St. over UNC (only other Tarheel losses are to undefeated Wake Forest and Clemson teams, both close)
3. Wyoming over Missouri
4. Hawaii over Arizona
5. Memphis over Ole Miss
Temple over Maryland would be up there if Maryland didn't get destroyed by Penn State the next week

GSU over Tennessee #1.

BYU beat Tennessee and lost to South Florida. Tennessee is not that good.
10-12-2019 07:06 PM
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RE: Most impressive G5 over P5 win
Tennessee won over Miss. State this week. Wake Forest is being destroyed by Louisville as we speak. Arkansas is destroying Kentucky right now. If you are not Alabama and LSU in the SEC? The chances the other teams to lose is very high right now. Clemson shows that they could lose to someone.
(This post was last modified: 10-12-2019 07:56 PM by DavidSt.)
10-12-2019 07:53 PM
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Mav Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Most impressive G5 over P5 win
(10-12-2019 07:06 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  
(10-11-2019 10:45 PM)Mav Wrote:  1. Georgia St. over Tennessee
2. App St. over UNC (only other Tarheel losses are to undefeated Wake Forest and Clemson teams, both close)
3. Wyoming over Missouri
4. Hawaii over Arizona
5. Memphis over Ole Miss
Temple over Maryland would be up there if Maryland didn't get destroyed by Penn State the next week

GSU over Tennessee #1.

BYU beat Tennessee and lost to South Florida. Tennessee is not that good.
It's still Sun Belt over SEC, especially a lower-half Sun Belt team. I wouldn't put it up there if it was Arkansas State or Lafayette where they've had success over the years.
10-12-2019 09:12 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Most impressive G5 over P5 win
(10-12-2019 09:12 PM)Mav Wrote:  
(10-12-2019 07:06 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  
(10-11-2019 10:45 PM)Mav Wrote:  1. Georgia St. over Tennessee
2. App St. over UNC (only other Tarheel losses are to undefeated Wake Forest and Clemson teams, both close)
3. Wyoming over Missouri
4. Hawaii over Arizona
5. Memphis over Ole Miss
Temple over Maryland would be up there if Maryland didn't get destroyed by Penn State the next week

GSU over Tennessee #1.

BYU beat Tennessee and lost to South Florida. Tennessee is not that good.
It's still Sun Belt over SEC, especially a lower-half Sun Belt team. I wouldn't put it up there if it was Arkansas State or Lafayette where they've had success over the years.

I just like the App St. over UNC. I know App St. has a better record than GSU, but feel that NC is better than Tennessee, so it evens out. It is close.
10-13-2019 03:52 AM
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Most impressive G5 over P5 win
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RE: Most impressive G5 over P5 win
(10-12-2019 06:58 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  
(10-12-2019 06:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-12-2019 05:55 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  Wyoming over Mizzou is my number two because it was probably the best team beaten by a g5 but SMU wins out for me because it was a road game and they were ranked at the time. Also it's a rivalry game that was starting to become one sided, so that's a nice boost as well.

Thing is, this can change, depending on how other games go. E.g., right now, Mizzou is ranked higher than TCU, so beating Missouri is objectively the better win.

But if Mizzou loses to Ole Miss tonight, then the complexion changes.

All we can do now is say what the best win is "right now", but that can change as the coming weeks unfold. We really won't know what the best win was until after bowl season.

I think when you factor in where the games were played it's pretty close.

Missouri did travel a long ways to Wyoming, while SMU had a half-hour bus ride to TCU. That's something I guess. But the computers say Mizzou is around the #20 team right now, while TCU is around #40, so to me, that's not close.

As for why some are mentioning Georgia State over Tennessee, that is boggling. Tennessee is like the #80 team right now. They are worse than about 25 G5 teams, at least.
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2019 09:19 AM by quo vadis.)
10-13-2019 09:18 AM
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panama Offline
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RE: Most impressive G5 over P5 win
(10-13-2019 09:18 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-12-2019 06:58 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  
(10-12-2019 06:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-12-2019 05:55 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  Wyoming over Mizzou is my number two because it was probably the best team beaten by a g5 but SMU wins out for me because it was a road game and they were ranked at the time. Also it's a rivalry game that was starting to become one sided, so that's a nice boost as well.

Thing is, this can change, depending on how other games go. E.g., right now, Mizzou is ranked higher than TCU, so beating Missouri is objectively the better win.

But if Mizzou loses to Ole Miss tonight, then the complexion changes.

All we can do now is say what the best win is "right now", but that can change as the coming weeks unfold. We really won't know what the best win was until after bowl season.

I think when you factor in where the games were played it's pretty close.

Missouri did travel a long ways to Wyoming, while SMU had a half-hour bus ride to TCU. That's something I guess. But the computers say Mizzou is around the #20 team right now, while TCU is around #40, so to me, that's not close.

As for why some are mentioning Georgia State over Tennessee, that is boggling. Tennessee is like the #80 team right now. They are worse than about 25 G5 teams, at least.
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